Golfing crossroads

I’m probably overstating things and shouldn’t post right after a round but I feel I’m at a crossroads with golf. I’ve been a casual player for 20 years or so but really serious over the past three years (when i retired). With a few lessons and countless hours on the range, I cobbled a swing that got me down to a 12 index and even shot a par 72 score once.

However, my typical scores of low to mid 80s have started creeping up, so much so that I’m now at a 14. Three weeks ago I decided to take lessons and told my new instructor my goal was to get into single digits and and shoot in the 70s and was committed to do whatever it takes. Well, he has totally dismantled my swing and I feel like I’m starting from scratch. I played my first round today and it was a disaster. I couldn’t get off the tee box on several holes, woods were topped, irons were low bullets...only thing working was putting. Everything felt so awkward, it was truly embarrassing. I got so frustrated I actually threw a club which I’ve never done before.

All this to say, maybe I should

just admit perhaps I'm not as committed as I thought and accept my game for what it is or should I trust the instruction will pay off eventually and just suck until it does...first world problems but real to me.

I think once we get older you just have to play with the swing you have. I'm sure many will disagree and that's ok. Making small tweaks is fine but after 20 years I wouldn't let someone tear down my whole swing.

My instructor made a change to my swing and it has been difficult to get used to. I was showing improvement but the latest change has taken me back two steps. Change is hard. If I were you I would look at where I was losing shots. If you are loosing them on your short game and putting then I wouldn't make a major change to my swing. If consistency or contact was an issue I would be willing to make swing changes. Focus on your weakness. Good luck.

Totally dismantling a swing in three weeks and leaving you with something that doesn't work does not sound like very good instruction, especially for an experienced and older player. A swing that can shoot par has some good things going on. What are the things the instructor has changed? Are you working on multiple things at the same time?

It seems like everything TBH. Starting with the takeaway going inside (I’d always been taught inside was bad)...We’re also trying to correct a chicken wing finish by keeping arms more connected to the torso and maintaining the forearm triangle. On top of that, I’m casting so trying to hold my wrist c0ck to create lag.

> @oikos1 said:

> Totally dismantling a swing in three weeks and leaving you with something that doesn't work does not sound like very good instruction, especially for an experienced and older player. A swing that can shoot par has some good things going on. What are the things the instructor has changed? Are you working on multiple things at the same time?

> @"Frisco Kid" said:

> It seems like everything TBH. Starting with the takeaway going inside (I’d always been taught inside was bad)...We’re also trying to correct a chicken wing finish by keeping arms more connected to the torso and maintaining the forearm triangle. On top of that, I’m casting so trying to hold my wrist c0ck to create lag.

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> > @oikos1 said:

> > Totally dismantling a swing in three weeks and leaving you with something that doesn't work does not sound like very good instruction, especially for an experienced and older player. A swing that can shoot par has some good things going on. What are the things the instructor has changed? Are you working on multiple things at the same time?

>

>

Perhaps a second opinion is in order.

I’ve paid up front for a pricey lesson package so I’m stuck with no more funds for a second opinion.

I’m going to be honest and tell him about the last round and perhaps revise my goals...just tweaks here and there and help with the short game.

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> > > @oikos1 said:

> > > Totally dismantling a swing in three weeks and leaving you with something that doesn't work does not sound like very good instruction, especially for an experienced and older player. A swing that can shoot par has some good things going on. What are the things the instructor has changed? Are you working on multiple things at the same time?

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> Perhaps a second opinion is in order.

Many years ago I had a pro dismantle my swing. Playing golf was not fun for a long time and I even took time off. Then I went back to what I was comfortable with and had fun again. It's been a couple of years since my last tune up, but all I get now is help with minor things. Sometimes we slip into bad habits that we cannot recognize and another's eyes on your swing is helpful. My most recent glitch was for some reason I was lined up right of the target and didn't have a clue. One of my buddies mentioned it to me and I started double checking my setup every shot. At our age minor tweaks are probably best.

A wise man once said, you have two choices: get better slowly or not at all.

> @oikos1 said:

> > @"Frisco Kid" said:

> > It seems like everything TBH. Starting with the takeaway going inside (I’d always been taught inside was bad)...We’re also trying to correct a chicken wing finish by keeping arms more connected to the torso and maintaining the forearm triangle. On top of that, I’m casting so trying to hold my wrist c0ck to create lag.

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> > > @oikos1 said:

> > > Totally dismantling a swing in three weeks and leaving you with something that doesn't work does not sound like very good instruction, especially for an experienced and older player. A swing that can shoot par has some good things going on. What are the things the instructor has changed? Are you working on multiple things at the same time?

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> >

>

> Perhaps a second opinion is in order.

Wow, I’d go with the second opinion,. Without seeing the original swing it’s hard to tell if the instruction is good or destructive. But your list of things working on sounds like all sorts of Cliches that destroy swings.

I’ll just offer a dissenting opinion. It is likely all of these things need to get fixed in order to help you improve. I’ve been “fixing “ my swing for 20 years. However, you should try to take them one or two at a time...not all at once. Plus, playing on course while overhauling a swing is typically not advisable. You’ll need a lot of range time to groove the new moves.

I personally think you will plateau without improving your swing.

I fully overhauled my 15 index swing... and it took/is taking a long time - years. The problem is that if you really want to make more consistently solid contact and have some control over the ball, it's hard to do with a swing that's too steep, a path that's OTT, where you have to flip through impact to hope to square the face. Fixing this doesn't come from a magic new swing thought or two. You're taking a whole set of related motions and feels in your current swing that hang together and when you start to impose new motions and feels, it throws the whole old system on its azz. The reason it took/is taking me so long is I had to find multiple new feels and finally get all of them to work together without having to manage a million swing thoughts.

Here's how I dealt/deal with the process... what alternative is there, if I really want to improve? None that I could see. But I am living proof that even in your 60's, you can improve, for real. But don't kid yourself. It's not a trivial, I took a series of 5 lessons and now I am all better.

One suggestion. I'd either get Monte's video on the efficient swing or spend some time looking at Athletic Motion golf on youtube. If your teacher isn't in the neighborhood of these kinds of insights into the swing, I'd write the price off and look elsewhere. It's really hard to improve if the teacher is all over the map focusing you on incidentals to a better game.

Different things for different people but I wouldn't like to be sent away from a lesson with any more than 1 or 2 small changes, to completely rebuild the whole swing seems excessive. Even 1 small change can cause havoc to your on the course game for weeks so I don't envy your current situation. When you go back to see him maybe you should suggest this. Another thing to remember is that it's quite easy to doubt a pro when your changes cause so many destructive shots, especially on the course. some changes do take time and a lot of range work over course time is required.

In my opinion a major change shouldn’t see the course in 3 weeks.

Shouldn’t see the course with other people until cold tops etc aren’t even a thought. You’ve got to take yourself out of the pressure until you have some muscle memory instated.

OP: "All this to say, maybe I should

just admit perhaps I'm not as committed as I thought and accept my game for what it is or should I trust the instruction will pay off eventually and just suck until it does...first world problems but real to me."

Sounds like you're throwing in the towel.

The heat of the moment has passed and cooler heads prevail. I’ve read several threads now of others who are taking months/years to overhaul swings so I should have lowered expectations after 3 weeks. I also should’ve known not to play a round before I was ready. I’m going to see this through and trust it will pay off.

> @Zitlow said:

> OP: "All this to say, maybe I should

> just admit perhaps I'm not as committed as I thought and accept my game for what it is or should I trust the instruction will pay off eventually and just suck until it does...first world problems but real to me."

>

> Sounds like you're throwing in the towel.

What's wrong with high expectations? It shouldn't take months or years to overhaul your swing. Once you have a mental image of a natural, athletic motion it's a matter of taking baby steps on the learning curve which will rapidly turn into giant steps..

Getting rid of my OTT swing from past 25 years was tough. Even after a year of playing from the “slot”, it rears its ugly head at times on the course. Crazy game we play!

I hope you’re right...I’ve just read threads where it’s taken months/years for some to overhaul their swing.

> @Zitlow said:

> What's wrong with high expectations? It shouldn't take months or years to overhaul your swing. Once you have a mental image of a natural, athletic motion it's a matter of taking baby steps on the learning curve which will rapidly turn into giant steps..

> @"Frisco Kid" said:

> I’m probably overstating things and shouldn’t post right after a round but I feel I’m at a crossroads with golf. I’ve been a casual player for 20 years or so but really serious over the past three years (when i retired). With a few lessons and countless hours on the range, I cobbled a swing that got me down to a 12 index and even shot a par 72 score once.

>

> However, my typical scores of low to mid 80s have started creeping up, so much so that I’m now at a 14. Three weeks ago I decided to take lessons and told my new instructor my goal was to get into single digits and and shoot in the 70s and was committed to do whatever it takes. Well, he has totally dismantled my swing and I feel like I’m starting from scratch. I played my first round today and it was a disaster. I couldn’t get off the tee box on several holes, woods were topped, irons were low bullets...only thing working was putting. Everything felt so awkward, it was truly embarrassing. I got so frustrated I actually threw a club which I’ve never done before.

>

> All this to say, maybe I should

> just admit perhaps I'm not as committed as I thought and accept my game for what it is or should I trust the instruction will pay off eventually and just suck until it does...first world problems but real to me.

Here is what I tried to get value out of lessons sometimes I did not jive with. You go out on YouTube and search, try some things on there. For me it was Clay Ballard and this guy Robin at Swing Station. I put their stuff together and it ran congruently with what my teacher was trying to get thru to me.

I worked at the range a lot and now I think I have a good formula.

Try that out to maybe see things from a different perspective .

> @"Frisco Kid" said:

> I hope you’re right...I’ve just read threads where it’s taken months/years for some to overhaul their swing.

>

>

> > @Zitlow said:

> > What's wrong with high expectations? It shouldn't take months or years to overhaul your swing. Once you have a mental image of a natural, athletic motion it's a matter of taking baby steps on the learning curve which will rapidly turn into giant steps..

>

>

The golf teaching industry likes to sell lessons so if they can keep you coming back for months or years they're happy.

Wanting to quit when things get frustrating is pretty common. That said, it's hubris. A more humble person would understand that adjustments are going to have some ill-effects in the short term.

That said, I never like to hear about people trying to make adjustments that are so large they're struggling to hit the ball. I wouldn't expect accuracy to be where you want it, but don't make changes that are so broad they totally reinvent your swing. That isn't helpful.

So if you're retired and you want to maintain a good golf game, eh, maybe think about making the kind of small tweaks that will tighten things up but not require you to relearn the game. As the above posters have pointed out, you're not trying to hit the tour. You're looking to get a bit more consistent.

Sounds to me like you went too far in what you asked for. So either figure it out with some intense range sessions or just dial it back.

Honestly though, keep the attitude in check. Getting better is going to take work. Getting upset about bad shots is not allowed at this stage. You're not being serious if you're changing things and expecting awesome shots. You have to be serious about this if you want it to take.

> @Zitlow said:

> > @"Frisco Kid" said:

> > I hope you’re right...I’ve just read threads where it’s taken months/years for some to overhaul their swing.

> >

> >

> > > @Zitlow said:

> > > What's wrong with high expectations? It shouldn't take months or years to overhaul your swing. Once you have a mental image of a natural, athletic motion it's a matter of taking baby steps on the learning curve which will rapidly turn into giant steps..

> >

> >

>

> The golf teaching industry likes to sell lessons so if they can keep you coming back for months or years they're happy.

This is not why it takes so long. It takes a long time because you have to re-wire multiple feels in your brain and for each one you have to discover the feel that connects to the new move, and then re-form the neural habit of returning to the old feel/motion when you get to that moment in the swing and instead have the new habit ingrained of going to the new feel/motion, and then finally put several new feels/motions all together as a new holistic feeling (trust that auto-pilot/unconscious will do the new motion on its own without a lot of swing thinking)

Your instructor should have given you the option to improve your action or start from scratch, then you're on the same page

I've been told this by other instructors. At 51, we always go with improve the action you've mostly grooved my 38 years of golf

No one of retirement age should be attempting a complete swing overhaul.

Just to be clear, I don't think anyone would call you crazy for trying to get better and for jumping in with the mindset of doing whatever it takes when you have loads of free time. That's just a guy being a guy and wanting to go as far as possible. That instinct is honorable.

So don't feel embarrassed when people say you're too old to make big changes. It's all about how much you're willing to put in and how much talent you have. Part of making a swing change is talent. These forums are littered with guys who will tell you that it takes years and years to re-shape your swing.

Well, yes and no. A lot has to do with how talented you are to begin with. That's what people don't really want to hear. We've all been told that shtick about re-wiring your brain and about how you've already ingrained certain motor patterns. That's no revelation. Of course making changes is hard. Only a fool would expect it to be easy. But at the same time, if it were as difficult as people sometimes make out, then no one would ever come out the other side having improved.

How quickly you can work through re-programming is based on talent and work ethic. What you're doing shouldn't really take more than a few months if you're working really hard. And if you're retired it might just be worth it to you to simply bust your hump for a few months ingraining those changes.

There's nothing that says that a guy of a certain age is limited to just doing X, Y or Z. It's more of a common sense thing matched with your own personal traits. If you feel you can tackle what you're trying to do, then go for it and good luck.

But just try and think big picture. It sounds like you want to keep playing good golf so maybe that's something you didn't factor in? I think you should at least talk to your instructor and ask his opinion on what the best course of action really is.

Thanks for this response...and to everyone’s input, I appreciate it!

> @MelloYello said:

> Just to be clear, I don't think anyone would call you crazy for trying to get better and for jumping in with the mindset of doing whatever it takes when you have loads of free time. That's just a guy being a guy and wanting to go as far as possible. That instinct is honorable.

>

> So don't feel embarrassed when people say you're too old to make big changes. It's all about how much you're willing to put in and how much talent you have. Part of making a swing change is talent. These forums are littered with guys who will tell you that it takes years and years to re-shape your swing.

>

> Well, yes and no. A lot has to do with how talented you are to begin with. That's what people don't really want to hear. We've all been told that shtick about re-wiring your brain and about how you've already ingrained certain motor patterns. That's no revelation. Of course making changes is hard. Only a fool would expect it to be easy. But at the same time, if it were as difficult as people sometimes make out, then no one would ever come out the other side having improved.

>

> How quickly you can work through re-programming is based on talent and work ethic. What you're doing shouldn't really take more than a few months if you're working really hard. And if you're retired it might just be worth it to you to simply bust your hump for a few months ingraining those changes.

>

> There's nothing that says that a guy of a certain age is limited to just doing X, Y or Z. It's more of a common sense thing matched with your own personal traits. If you feel you can tackle what you're trying to do, then go for it and good luck.

>

> But just try and think big picture. It sounds like you want to keep playing good golf so maybe that's something you didn't factor in? I think you should at least talk to your instructor and ask his opinion on what the best course of action really is.

Wanting to change your swing for the better is a worthy goal at any age, and is very likely able to be accomplished at any age. Yes talent plays a big part in how long it takes.

Part of the talent lays with the instructor though..... If he/she isnt talented you can be in for a much longer journey than anticipated.

Having said that, if your instructor is telling you to hold the wrist angle in the downswing to maintain lag, and keep the arms locked to the body to get rid of the chicken wing, .... Id get a second opinion.

Do your research on other instructors. Have a conversation with one before taking lessons ect ect. Dont throw good money after bad.