Another good reason to leave rakes in the bunkers

Today on #2, Spieth hit a rake hidden in the tall grass which led to a very hard earned bogey. That stuff doesn't happen when the rake is in the bunker.

I mean, you could just not leave the rake in a place that nobody would be able to see it while in the trap too and not have the issue.

This is true. I would never leave a rake between the bunker and the line to the green.

Guess nobody mentioned this happening in the US Open thread

No it is not. There are more potential issues from a rake in the bunker than if they are left outside.

> @Roadking2003 said:

> Today on #2, Spieth hit a rake hidden in the tall grass which led to a very hard earned bogey. That stuff doesn't happen when the rake is in the bunker.

Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, let's just look at the ruling bodies recommendation:

". . . . it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

Found here:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=2&subrulenum=4

Didn’t really hit the rake though, did it

> @"sui generis" said:

> Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, ....

We can always count on you for an arrogant and subjective response that is intended to make you appear important . Congratulations.

> @LeftArmBender said:

> Didn’t really hit the rake though, did it

Yes, it did. Just listen. I watched it twice.

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > Today on #2, Spieth hit a rake hidden in the tall grass which led to a very hard earned bogey. That stuff doesn't happen when the rake is in the bunker.

>

> Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, let's just look at the ruling bodies recommendation:

>

> ". . . . it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

>

> Found here:

>

> https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=2&subrulenum=4

Nope. Try again. Bill, the head pro/greenskeeper at my muni wants ‘em in the traps so he can drag the gangs around without stopping the mower so much. Another example of how the Golf Association has no idea how to run a course. Thank goodness Bill doesn’t listen to them on other stuff.

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, ....

>

> We can always count on you for an arrogant and subjective response that is intended to make you appear important . Congratulations.

>

>

An informed and objective response is what was warranted. You'd be wise to read the link.

Y’all can hammer SG all you want but the USGA does ask us to leave them out of the bunkers when setting up (they start there may not end there).

Was a part of 2 US Open setups at Oakmont.

I understand what Ashley is saying though as it does save the guys some time when mowing, but it stuck with me and I made the guys move them, although the mowers never got close to many bunker edges usually they’re flymown and weed whipped.

> @BNGL said:

> Y’all can hammer SG all you want but the USGA does ask us to leave them out of the bunkers when setting up (they start there may not end there).

> Was a part of 2 US Open setups at Oakmont.

>

> I understand what Ashley is saying though as it does save the guys some time when mowing, but it stuck with me and I made the guys move them, although the mowers never got close to many bunker edges usually they’re flymown and weed whipped.

Flymown and Weed Whipped is the name of my Black Sabbath tribute band...

Here's the "Rules reason," BNGL:

14.2e/1 – Player Must Take Penalty Relief When Spot Where Ball Will Remain at Rest Is Nearer Hole

When following Rule 14.2e, there is a possibility that the only spot in the same area of the course where the ball will stay at rest when placed is nearer the hole. In such circumstances, the player must take penalty relief under an allowed Rule.

The player is not allowed to push the ball into the ground to ensure it stays on a spot (see 8.2b/1).

For example, a player’s ball comes to rest on the downslope of a bunker against a rake and, in removing the rake, the ball moves. The player attempts to replace the ball as required, but it does not stay. He or she then follows the procedure of Rule 14.2e with no success and finds that there are no other spots to try in that bunker that are not nearer the hole.

In this case, the player must take unplayable ball relief either by using stroke and distance for one penalty stroke (Rule 19.2a) or back-on-the-line relief outside the bunker for two penalty strokes (Rule 19.3b).

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=interp&section=rule&rulenum=14&subrulenum=8

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, ....

> >

> > We can always count on you for an arrogant and subjective response that is intended to make you appear important . Congratulations.

> >

> >

>

> An informed and objective response is what was warranted. You'd be wise to read the link.

I read the link a few years back. You would be wise to respect the fact that your opinions are not any better than a lot of other people's. The in/out of bunker issue has been debated for decades. My opinion is not "uninformed". It is very informed. It's just different from yours.

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, ....

> > >

> > > We can always count on you for an arrogant and subjective response that is intended to make you appear important . Congratulations.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > An informed and objective response is what was warranted. You'd be wise to read the link.

>

> I read the link a few years back. You would be wise to respect the fact that your opinions are not any better than a lot of other people's. The in/out of bunker issue has been debated for decades. My opinion is not "uninformed". It is very informed. It's just different from yours.

The difference is mine is not an opinion. And we all know what they say about opinions.

> @BNGL said:

> Y’all can hammer SG all you want but the USGA does ask us to leave them out of the bunkers when setting up (they start there may not end there).

> Was a part of 2 US Open setups at Oakmont.

Did they tell you to put them between the bunker and the hole? or "in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball"?

The rake on PB #2 was certainly not " in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball"

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > Today on #2, Spieth hit a rake hidden in the tall grass which led to a very hard earned bogey. That stuff doesn't happen when the rake is in the bunker.

>

> Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, let's just look at the ruling bodies recommendation:

>

> ". . . . it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

>

> Found here:

>

> https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=2&subrulenum=4

You should read all of the ruling before posting...

Also from the rule book: Position of Rakes

"There is not a perfect answer for the position of rakes and it is a matter for each Committee to decide whether it has rakes placed in or out of bunkers."

When I asked the Pro where the rakes should be left at one of our local courses his response was it was up to the Super. In this case it was IN the bunkers.

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > Today on #2, Spieth hit a rake hidden in the tall grass which led to a very hard earned bogey. That stuff doesn't happen when the rake is in the bunker.

> >

> > Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, let's just look at the ruling bodies recommendation:

> >

> > ". . . . it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

> >

> > Found here:

> >

> > https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=2&subrulenum=4

>

> Nope. Try again. Bill, the head pro/greenskeeper at my muni wants ‘em in the traps so he can drag the gangs around without stopping the mower so much. Another example of how the Golf Association has no idea how to run a course. Thank goodness Bill doesn’t listen to them on other stuff.

>

>

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > Today on #2, Spieth hit a rake hidden in the tall grass which led to a very hard earned bogey. That stuff doesn't happen when the rake is in the bunker.

> >

> > Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, let's just look at the ruling bodies recommendation:

> >

> > ". . . . it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

> >

> > Found here:

> >

> > https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=2&subrulenum=4

>

So you are saying course setup should be more about ease / quickness of maintenance than quality of play at a US Open?

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > > Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, ....

> > > >

> > > > We can always count on you for an arrogant and subjective response that is intended to make you appear important . Congratulations.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > An informed and objective response is what was warranted. You'd be wise to read the link.

> >

> > I read the link a few years back. You would be wise to respect the fact that your opinions are not any better than a lot of other people's. The in/out of bunker issue has been debated for decades. My opinion is not "uninformed". It is very informed. It's just different from yours.

>

> The difference is mine is not an opinion.

Now that's funny. Just keep entertaining us.

> @idrive said:

> "There is not a perfect answer for the position of rakes and it is a matter for each Committee to decide whether it has rakes placed in or out of bunkers."

That's the net net of the whole debate. Every committee will have an opinion and none of them are wrong.

> @Cwing said:

> So you are saying course setup should be more about ease / quickness of maintenance than quality of play at a US Open?

Does a rake in front of the bunker where it can be hit qualify for "quality of play"?

> @BNGL said:

> Y’all can hammer SG all you want but the USGA does ask us to leave them out of the bunkers when setting up (they start there may not end there).

> Was a part of 2 US Open setups at Oakmont.

>

> I understand what Ashley is saying though as it does save the guys some time when mowing, but it stuck with me and I made the guys move them, although the mowers never got close to many bunker edges usually they’re flymown and weed whipped.

I was kidding.

> @Cwing said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > Today on #2, Spieth hit a rake hidden in the tall grass which led to a very hard earned bogey. That stuff doesn't happen when the rake is in the bunker.

> > >

> > > Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, let's just look at the ruling bodies recommendation:

> > >

> > > ". . . . it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

> > >

> > > Found here:

> > >

> > > https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=2&subrulenum=4

> >

> > Nope. Try again. Bill, the head pro/greenskeeper at my muni wants ‘em in the traps so he can drag the gangs around without stopping the mower so much. Another example of how the Golf Association has no idea how to run a course. Thank goodness Bill doesn’t listen to them on other stuff.

> >

> >

>

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > Today on #2, Spieth hit a rake hidden in the tall grass which led to a very hard earned bogey. That stuff doesn't happen when the rake is in the bunker.

> > >

> > > Before this uninformed opinion gets too far, let's just look at the ruling bodies recommendation:

> > >

> > > ". . . . it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

> > >

> > > Found here:

> > >

> > > https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule&rulenum=2&subrulenum=4

> >

> So you are saying course setup should be more about ease / quickness of maintenance than quality of play at a US Open?

>

>

Was kidding.

That’s what I mean is they start out of the bunker usually on the low side where golfers are to enter after that’s it’s a free for all.

I’ve suggested quite a few times to follow the British Open routine of having a walker with a rake for the players and eliminate them all together.

USGA suggests they be left out of the bunker & it's left up to the local committee, so it's obvious at a USGA event where they're going to be...... if it was the opposite and something had happened with the rake in the bunker then ya'll would be debating the opposite.

I think they should be out of the sand… If there left in the sand they usually stop the ball from rolling all the way to the bottom of the trap…When they are left in the sand there is sand all over the handle when you use it and nobody wants sand all over their hands… Or at least they should not want sand all over their hands…

.

Remove the rakes and treat them like real hazards, so Spieth will stop whining too.

They should just do away with rakes all together. Bunkers need to be hazards.