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The Open Championship at Royal Portrush GC/Dunluce Links - Shane Lowry is the 2019 Champion Golfer

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Comments

  • tideridertiderider Members  3204WRX Points: 2,223Handicap: 5ishPosts: 3,204 Titanium Tees
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    all the hyperbole about sawgrass indicates a very narrow-minded and elementary view of golf course design ... it certainly is not as visually appealing as augusta, and obviously not as revered, but it is a fine course, with plenty of thought required to make your way around it ...

    Posted:
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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  31008WRX Points: 7,293Handicap: NONEPosts: 31,008 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @tiderider said:

    all the hyperbole about sawgrass indicates a very narrow-minded and elementary view of golf course design ... it certainly is not as visually appealing as augusta, and obviously not as revered, but it is a fine course, with plenty of thought required to make your way around it ...

    Sure. Never said bull doze it. But. I’m giving you my honest opinion on a large part of why I do not look forward to or enjoy the players nearly as much as any of the 4 majors , jacks tournament or even the API. If I thought hard it may not make top 10. Same field playing pebble or Firestone or Torrey in my opinion , instantly makes for a better event. That’s all I’m saying. It’s cool that others don’t agree .

    I’m not a fan of drive able par 4s with runoffs to water , really a sucker hole design. Also hate the course with no Rough like this year. Not a fan of the island hole. It’s just entertainment for the **** , like nascar wrecks. And hate 18. Why ? I hate a hole that forces a hard hook or fade that also cants away from the dogleg. Basically meaning it’s forcing you to hit a big hook to stay in the fairway. Masking the real purpose. To get you to hit it in the water. Favors certain players too heavily. That fairway should accept either shot shape and it doesn’t unless it’s wet.

    And most importantly , I’ve watched who knows how many players tournaments. And I have trouble remembering more than 5 holes. That’s the mark of a bad course in any designers book. And has been stated by many , many times.

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  • duffer987duffer987 Meh... eh Canadian in CaliforniaMembers  9957WRX Points: 1,181Handicap: ~8Posts: 9,957 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2254

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @Lagavulin62 said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @Lagavulin62 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @SCalGolfer said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    Yes, absolutely!

    So get excited for the Players in 8 months and not having to wait two months after the Masters for another major.

    Lol, the players :D

    If you worked for NBC/Golf Channel or the PGA Tour - that is a sackable offence ;-)

    Ladies and gents from today the Players will be a Major because we said so. Poulter wins. We kid, we kid!!! 😂😂

    4 majors is plenty. But the argumen

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @SCalGolfer said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    Yes, absolutely!

    So get excited for the Players in 8 months and not having to wait two months after the Masters for another major.

    Lol, the players :D

    If you worked for NBC/Golf Channel or the PGA Tour - that is a sackable offence ;-)

    Ladies and gents from today the Players will be a Major because we said so. Poulter wins. We kid, we kid!!! 😂😂

    Why all the hate for the Players Championship? It's a very strong field on a tough course (especially now that's back where it belongs in March).

    I'm glad it's back in March. A big part of the problem, besides knowing 4 majors is plenty, is that the course is Mickey Mouse and symbolic of all that is boring American design. The course had it's detractors since it became the home in the mid 70's. The 17th has to be the most ridiculous hole in all of golf. I wish I knew why they want this to be a major.

    Have you ever played Sawgrass? It's a great course, not boring in the least, and particularly excellent for the strategic challenge.

    No. But I believe a course needs aesthetic appeal and it needs to look as natural as possible.

    So you don't like Augusta?

    Comparing sawgrass to Augusta is like comparing road killed possum to a bone in ribeye ..... both maybe perfectly edible proteins. But hardly comparable.

    I’m not saying Sawgrass is better than Augusta. He said he only likes courses that look as natural as possible. This would mean he doesn’t like Augusta.
    I’ve been to Augusta and I’ve played Sawgrass. Have you?

    Posted:
  • jmckjmck Members  4770WRX Points: 802Posts: 4,770 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2255

    On -, @Lagavulin62 said:

    On -, @jmck said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @Lagavulin62 said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @Lagavulin62 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @SCalGolfer said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    Yes, absolutely!

    So get excited for the Players in 8 months and not having to wait two months after the Masters for another major.

    Lol, the players :D

    If you worked for NBC/Golf Channel or the PGA Tour - that is a sackable offence ;-)

    Ladies and gents from today the Players will be a Major because we said so. Poulter wins. We kid, we kid!!! 😂😂

    4 majors is plenty. But the argumen

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @SCalGolfer said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    Yes, absolutely!

    So get excited for the Players in 8 months and not having to wait two months after the Masters for another major.

    Lol, the players :D

    If you worked for NBC/Golf Channel or the PGA Tour - that is a sackable offence ;-)

    Ladies and gents from today the Players will be a Major because we said so. Poulter wins. We kid, we kid!!! 😂😂

    Why all the hate for the Players Championship? It's a very strong field on a tough course (especially now that's back where it belongs in March).

    I'm glad it's back in March. A big part of the problem, besides knowing 4 majors is plenty, is that the course is Mickey Mouse and symbolic of all that is boring American design. The course had it's detractors since it became the home in the mid 70's. The 17th has to be the most ridiculous hole in all of golf. I wish I knew why they want this to be a major.

    Have you ever played Sawgrass? It's a great course, not boring in the least, and particularly excellent for the strategic challenge.

    No. But I believe a course needs aesthetic appeal and it needs to look as natural as possible.

    So you don't like Augusta?

    Comparing sawgrass to Augusta is like comparing road killed possum to a bone in ribeye ..... both maybe perfectly edible proteins. But hardly comparable.

    I don't know why you're being so harsh. They moved a bunch of dirt to turn a fruit orchard into one of the two or three most beautiful, recognizable, shrines of golf worldwide. Just like they moved a bunch of dirt to turn a rat infested swamp into example A1 of clown course architecture. See! Same thing! Dirt was moved! Can't like one and dislike the other!

    You can’t be serious? You just made my point. “Clown course architecture”? Exactly.

    There is a difference between moving dirt to enhance what is natural and to make a situation viable for golf. Quite another to “fill in” lakes(swamps) to create land as if they were creating a golf version of Battery Park. It is ridiculous with all the cross ties, more water than land practically, sand galore. I mean cmon does that do it for you aesthetically? This is the same as Augusta?

    From a playability perspective I guarantee you just about every golfer in the world would choose Augusta over TPC Stadium Course. Forget the history etc. Just think in terms of PLAYABILITY. You would have to be mentally challenged to not understand why that is.

    And believe it or not this comes through on TV and it’s a big reason Sawgrass gets the bad rap. It’s well deserved.

    Relax man, I'm on your side. It's patently ridiculous to say if one likes "natural" courses one can't like Augusta, or if one dislikes Sawgrass one must also dislike Augusta. They're pretty much polar opposites design-wise.

    I should've added the "/sarcasm" to my post.....

    Posted:
  • scruffynickscruffynick manchester, UKMembers  1657WRX Points: 198Handicap: 5....soon to be 6 I think Posts: 1,657 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2256

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @scruffynick said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    Back in the 1950’s they used to sometimes play at quality courses like Royal Lytham and Pinehurst 2. But yeah, the course will far surpass anything in recent memory.

    On -, @Darth Putter said:

    On -, @Malvern said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    You guys seem to be forgetting that 2019's biggest event is only 5 months away.........yep, The Presidents Cup.
    I'm almost giddy with excitement at the prospect of Tiger and Ernie trying to ramp up the new duel in the sun (albeit it is Melbourne and could be raining)

    On the other hand, Royal Melbourne is better than EVERY course that's hosted the Ryder Cup.

    And Christy O'Connor Jr's 2 iron on the 18th - at the blah Brabazon course - is better than any shot that's ever been hit in the Presidents Cup ;-)

    The Ryder Cup has basically been played on resort courses in Europe most years, in the US a mix between good private and resort courses.

    While Europe gets it right on how they run the team they almost always get it wrong on the venue. In the US we usually have a really good venue (Mostly former major championship venues) , but the team is managed poorly.

    Are you serious?? I mean which venues have been wrong??? Do you know how good the courses the ryder cup has been played on in Europe, then add the amount of spectators which can come too..... I can't think of one bad course or venue ever in the ryder Cup.

    C'mon, The K Club, Celtic Manor, the new course at Gleneagles, the Belfry again and again... these are pretty meh courses. Valderama and Le Golf National are really the only two interesting tracks, since Walton Heath in the early 80s. The competitions themselves have been awesome, especially the Euros winning results, and the courses do serve their 'stadium course' remit, but really that's about it.

    What??? Belfry is one of the finest courses in the UK ffs, add the 10th and 18th drama... The K club... Seriously?? And Celtic Manor, again one of the finest courses around.... And if you think valderama is poor then you don't like golf.... It's an unbelievable course and hard as nails, a brilliant ryder cup course.... I think US sour grapes here.

    Posted:
  • SuperbritSuperbrit Members  666WRX Points: 182Posts: 666 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #2257

    On -, @scruffynick said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @scruffynick said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    Back in the 1950’s they used to sometimes play at quality courses like Royal Lytham and Pinehurst 2. But yeah, the course will far surpass anything in recent memory.

    On -, @Darth Putter said:

    On -, @Malvern said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    You guys seem to be forgetting that 2019's biggest event is only 5 months away.........yep, The Presidents Cup.
    I'm almost giddy with excitement at the prospect of Tiger and Ernie trying to ramp up the new duel in the sun (albeit it is Melbourne and could be raining)

    On the other hand, Royal Melbourne is better than EVERY course that's hosted the Ryder Cup.

    And Christy O'Connor Jr's 2 iron on the 18th - at the blah Brabazon course - is better than any shot that's ever been hit in the Presidents Cup ;-)

    The Ryder Cup has basically been played on resort courses in Europe most years, in the US a mix between good private and resort courses.

    While Europe gets it right on how they run the team they almost always get it wrong on the venue. In the US we usually have a really good venue (Mostly former major championship venues) , but the team is managed poorly.

    Are you serious?? I mean which venues have been wrong??? Do you know how good the courses the ryder cup has been played on in Europe, then add the amount of spectators which can come too..... I can't think of one bad course or venue ever in the ryder Cup.

    C'mon, The K Club, Celtic Manor, the new course at Gleneagles, the Belfry again and again... these are pretty meh courses. Valderama and Le Golf National are really the only two interesting tracks, since Walton Heath in the early 80s. The competitions themselves have been awesome, especially the Euros winning results, and the courses do serve their 'stadium course' remit, but really that's about it.

    What??? Belfry is one of the finest courses in the UK ffs, add the 10th and 18th drama... The K club... Seriously?? And Celtic Manor, again one of the finest courses around.... And if you think valderama is poor then you don't like golf.... It's an unbelievable course and hard as nails, a brilliant ryder cup course.... I think US sour grapes here.

    I see your from the UK as well as myself but i have to disagree, the Belfry is not one of the best in the UK, it is good, with 2 great holes as you say, but no where near top 100
    Celtic Manor is again good, but again no where near top 100.
    K club i cant comment as never played it.

    Posted:

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  • duffer987duffer987 Meh... eh Canadian in CaliforniaMembers  9957WRX Points: 1,181Handicap: ~8Posts: 9,957 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 23, 2019 #2258

    On -, @scruffynick said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @scruffynick said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    Back in the 1950’s they used to sometimes play at quality courses like Royal Lytham and Pinehurst 2. But yeah, the course will far surpass anything in recent memory.

    On -, @Darth Putter said:

    On -, @Malvern said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    You guys seem to be forgetting that 2019's biggest event is only 5 months away.........yep, The Presidents Cup.
    I'm almost giddy with excitement at the prospect of Tiger and Ernie trying to ramp up the new duel in the sun (albeit it is Melbourne and could be raining)

    On the other hand, Royal Melbourne is better than EVERY course that's hosted the Ryder Cup.

    And Christy O'Connor Jr's 2 iron on the 18th - at the blah Brabazon course - is better than any shot that's ever been hit in the Presidents Cup ;-)

    The Ryder Cup has basically been played on resort courses in Europe most years, in the US a mix between good private and resort courses.

    While Europe gets it right on how they run the team they almost always get it wrong on the venue. In the US we usually have a really good venue (Mostly former major championship venues) , but the team is managed poorly.

    Are you serious?? I mean which venues have been wrong??? Do you know how good the courses the ryder cup has been played on in Europe, then add the amount of spectators which can come too..... I can't think of one bad course or venue ever in the ryder Cup.

    C'mon, The K Club, Celtic Manor, the new course at Gleneagles, the Belfry again and again... these are pretty meh courses. Valderama and Le Golf National are really the only two interesting tracks, since Walton Heath in the early 80s. The competitions themselves have been awesome, especially the Euros winning results, and the courses do serve their 'stadium course' remit, but really that's about it.

    What??? Belfry is one of the finest courses in the UK ffs, add the 10th and 18th drama... The K club... Seriously?? And Celtic Manor, again one of the finest courses around.... And if you think valderama is poor then you don't like golf.... It's an unbelievable course and hard as nails, a brilliant ryder cup course.... I think US sour grapes here.

    Think the red mist has dulled your reading comprehension:

    • I said Valderama was one of the few interesting courses since Walton Heath
    • I also said the competitions are awesome especially with the Euros winning
    • Maybe you are not displaying the sidebars, but my profile quite clearly indicates my nationality (hint, it's not American)

    Those modern courses certainly serve their purpose as laid out by the European Tour, but if you think the Belfry is "one of the finest courses in the UK", well each to their own, as I'm sure it's a solid track, but no way would it crack to the Top 100 in the UK. There are dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of links, heathland, downland, and parkland tracks ahead of it.
    That said, 18 can produce fantastic drama indeed - I said as much a few pages back.

    Posted:
  • Lagavulin62Lagavulin62 Members  2347WRX Points: 326Handicap: 15Posts: 2,347 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 23, 2019 #2259

    On -, @jmck said:

    On -, @Lagavulin62 said:

    On -, @jmck said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @Lagavulin62 said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @Lagavulin62 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @SCalGolfer said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    Yes, absolutely!

    So get excited for the Players in 8 months and not having to wait two months after the Masters for another major.

    Lol, the players :D

    If you worked for NBC/Golf Channel or the PGA Tour - that is a sackable offence ;-)

    Ladies and gents from today the Players will be a Major because we said so. Poulter wins. We kid, we kid!!! 😂😂

    4 majors is plenty. But the argumen

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @SCalGolfer said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    Yes, absolutely!

    So get excited for the Players in 8 months and not having to wait two months after the Masters for another major.

    Lol, the players :D

    If you worked for NBC/Golf Channel or the PGA Tour - that is a sackable offence ;-)

    Ladies and gents from today the Players will be a Major because we said so. Poulter wins. We kid, we kid!!! 😂😂

    Why all the hate for the Players Championship? It's a very strong field on a tough course (especially now that's back where it belongs in March).

    I'm glad it's back in March. A big part of the problem, besides knowing 4 majors is plenty, is that the course is Mickey Mouse and symbolic of all that is boring American design. The course had it's detractors since it became the home in the mid 70's. The 17th has to be the most ridiculous hole in all of golf. I wish I knew why they want this to be a major.

    Have you ever played Sawgrass? It's a great course, not boring in the least, and particularly excellent for the strategic challenge.

    No. But I believe a course needs aesthetic appeal and it needs to look as natural as possible.

    So you don't like Augusta?

    Comparing sawgrass to Augusta is like comparing road killed possum to a bone in ribeye ..... both maybe perfectly edible proteins. But hardly comparable.

    I don't know why you're being so harsh. They moved a bunch of dirt to turn a fruit orchard into one of the two or three most beautiful, recognizable, shrines of golf worldwide. Just like they moved a bunch of dirt to turn a rat infested swamp into example A1 of clown course architecture. See! Same thing! Dirt was moved! Can't like one and dislike the other!

    You can’t be serious? You just made my point. “Clown course architecture”? Exactly.

    There is a difference between moving dirt to enhance what is natural and to make a situation viable for golf. Quite another to “fill in” lakes(swamps) to create land as if they were creating a golf version of Battery Park. It is ridiculous with all the cross ties, more water than land practically, sand galore. I mean cmon does that do it for you aesthetically? This is the same as Augusta?

    From a playability perspective I guarantee you just about every golfer in the world would choose Augusta over TPC Stadium Course. Forget the history etc. Just think in terms of PLAYABILITY. You would have to be mentally challenged to not understand why that is.

    And believe it or not this comes through on TV and it’s a big reason Sawgrass gets the bad rap. It’s well deserved.

    Relax man, I'm on your side. It's patently ridiculous to say if one likes "natural" courses one can't like Augusta, or if one dislikes Sawgrass one must also dislike Augusta. They're pretty much polar opposites design-wise.

    I should've added the "/sarcasm" to my post.....

    No problem. Sorry about that. I did read it a few times and had questions. Lol. Anyway yeah I think we have all made our point. It could be a generational thing? People have just grown accustomed to these designs and if they didn’t play growing up, in a different time playing the courses of the day, I guess I can see from that perspective how island designs, etc have some type of appeal. Personally from a playing and watching pov I just never liked the sink or swim style of so many of today’s designs.

    Posted:
  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  31008WRX Points: 7,293Handicap: NONEPosts: 31,008 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2260

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @tiderider said:

    all the hyperbole about sawgrass indicates a very narrow-minded and elementary view of golf course design ... it certainly is not as visually appealing as augusta, and obviously not as revered, but it is a fine course, with plenty of thought required to make your way around it ...

    Sure. Never said bull doze it. But. I’m giving you my honest opinion on a large part of why I do not look forward to or enjoy the players nearly as much as any of the 4 majors , jacks tournament or even the API. If I thought hard it may not make top 10. Same field playing pebble or Firestone or Torrey in my opinion , instantly makes for a better event. That’s all I’m saying. It’s cool that others don’t agree .

    I’m not a fan of drive able par 4s with runoffs to water , really a sucker hole design. Also hate the course with no Rough like this year. Not a fan of the island hole. It’s just entertainment for the **** , like nascar wrecks. And hate 18. Why ? I hate a hole that forces a hard hook or fade that also cants away from the dogleg. Basically meaning it’s forcing you to hit a big hook to stay in the fairway. Masking the real purpose. To get you to hit it in the water. Favors certain players too heavily. That fairway should accept either shot shape and it doesn’t unless it’s wet.

    And most importantly , I’ve watched who knows how many players tournaments. And I have trouble remembering more than 5 holes. That’s the mark of a bad course in any designers book. And has been stated by many , many times.

    So neither of you have played the course or even seen it in person. You watch it on TV and probably think the 17th is the whole course. Given that and the way you talk about Pete Dye courses, this is good because it shows me how much credibility to give your views on this.

    Well I’ve also never played Augusta. I assume that also I am clueless about that course , as are you ?

    Why didn’t we just say that unless you’ve played in the players championship, you cannot possibly have an opinion or know anything about what you like. Then it would have been all clear. Wow.

    Posted:
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  • duffer987duffer987 Meh... eh Canadian in CaliforniaMembers  9957WRX Points: 1,181Handicap: ~8Posts: 9,957 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2261

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @tiderider said:

    all the hyperbole about sawgrass indicates a very narrow-minded and elementary view of golf course design ... it certainly is not as visually appealing as augusta, and obviously not as revered, but it is a fine course, with plenty of thought required to make your way around it ...

    Sure. Never said bull doze it. But. I’m giving you my honest opinion on a large part of why I do not look forward to or enjoy the players nearly as much as any of the 4 majors , jacks tournament or even the API. If I thought hard it may not make top 10. Same field playing pebble or Firestone or Torrey in my opinion , instantly makes for a better event. That’s all I’m saying. It’s cool that others don’t agree .

    I’m not a fan of drive able par 4s with runoffs to water , really a sucker hole design. Also hate the course with no Rough like this year. Not a fan of the island hole. It’s just entertainment for the **** , like nascar wrecks. And hate 18. Why ? I hate a hole that forces a hard hook or fade that also cants away from the dogleg. Basically meaning it’s forcing you to hit a big hook to stay in the fairway. Masking the real purpose. To get you to hit it in the water. Favors certain players too heavily. That fairway should accept either shot shape and it doesn’t unless it’s wet.

    And most importantly , I’ve watched who knows how many players tournaments. And I have trouble remembering more than 5 holes. That’s the mark of a bad course in any designers book. And has been stated by many , many times.

    So neither of you have played the course or even seen it in person. You watch it on TV and probably think the 17th is the whole course. Given that and the way you talk about Pete Dye courses, this is good because it shows me how much credibility to give your views on this.

    LOL. The thing that beggars belief is for someone who says they have been to both TPC Sawgrass and AGNC, that you characterize Augusta as being unnatural like Sawgrass.
    How can you possibly have that POV? Because they both have teeboxes, greens, trees, and some water?

    Posted:
  • gvogelgvogel Members  8581WRX Points: 1,475Posts: 8,581 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2262

    On -, @tiderider said:

    all the hyperbole about sawgrass indicates a very narrow-minded and elementary view of golf course design ... it certainly is not as visually appealing as augusta, and obviously not as revered, but it is a fine course, with plenty of thought required to make your way around it ...

    I played it once. I would never bother to go back.

    Posted:
    Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  31008WRX Points: 7,293Handicap: NONEPosts: 31,008 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 23, 2019 #2263

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @tiderider said:

    all the hyperbole about sawgrass indicates a very narrow-minded and elementary view of golf course design ... it certainly is not as visually appealing as augusta, and obviously not as revered, but it is a fine course, with plenty of thought required to make your way around it ...

    Sure. Never said bull doze it. But. I’m giving you my honest opinion on a large part of why I do not look forward to or enjoy the players nearly as much as any of the 4 majors , jacks tournament or even the API. If I thought hard it may not make top 10. Same field playing pebble or Firestone or Torrey in my opinion , instantly makes for a better event. That’s all I’m saying. It’s cool that others don’t agree .

    I’m not a fan of drive able par 4s with runoffs to water , really a sucker hole design. Also hate the course with no Rough like this year. Not a fan of the island hole. It’s just entertainment for the **** , like nascar wrecks. And hate 18. Why ? I hate a hole that forces a hard hook or fade that also cants away from the dogleg. Basically meaning it’s forcing you to hit a big hook to stay in the fairway. Masking the real purpose. To get you to hit it in the water. Favors certain players too heavily. That fairway should accept either shot shape and it doesn’t unless it’s wet.

    And most importantly , I’ve watched who knows how many players tournaments. And I have trouble remembering more than 5 holes. That’s the mark of a bad course in any designers book. And has been stated by many , many times.

    So neither of you have played the course or even seen it in person. You watch it on TV and probably think the 17th is the whole course. Given that and the way you talk about Pete Dye courses, this is good because it shows me how much credibility to give your views on this.

    Well I’ve also never played Augusta. I assume that also I am clueless about that course , as are you ?

    Why didn’t we just say that unless you’ve played in the players championship, you cannot possibly have an opinion or know anything about what you like. Then it would have been all clear. Wow.

    I’m not saying Sawgrass is a better course. You guys seem to miss that. But Augusta is NOT a natural looking course. You can’t say you think Augusta is so great but Sawgrass is not because Sawgrass doesn’t look natural. That is just hypocritical.
    And if you’ve only seen a course on TV, your view is limited

    I just don’t agree with that opinion. Compared to sawgrass Augusta is s natural looking course. I’ve lived in the red clay belt all my life. Plenty of old orchard courses like AN around here. Uphills and down. Water in the bottoms as we’d say meaning water running through each valley and lots of slope everywhere. My home course is this way. Actually built from an old orchard. Not a flat lie anywhere. I just don’t get how Augusta isn’t a natural type setting. Because it’s manicured? Amen corner was there when the property was bought. That wasn’t made. Not in the abstract sense.

    Posted:
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  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members  6356WRX Points: 3,271Handicap: 10.8Posts: 6,356 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2264

    On -, @scruffynick said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @scruffynick said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    Back in the 1950’s they used to sometimes play at quality courses like Royal Lytham and Pinehurst 2. But yeah, the course will far surpass anything in recent memory.

    On -, @Darth Putter said:

    On -, @Malvern said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    You guys seem to be forgetting that 2019's biggest event is only 5 months away.........yep, The Presidents Cup.
    I'm almost giddy with excitement at the prospect of Tiger and Ernie trying to ramp up the new duel in the sun (albeit it is Melbourne and could be raining)

    On the other hand, Royal Melbourne is better than EVERY course that's hosted the Ryder Cup.

    And Christy O'Connor Jr's 2 iron on the 18th - at the blah Brabazon course - is better than any shot that's ever been hit in the Presidents Cup ;-)

    The Ryder Cup has basically been played on resort courses in Europe most years, in the US a mix between good private and resort courses.

    While Europe gets it right on how they run the team they almost always get it wrong on the venue. In the US we usually have a really good venue (Mostly former major championship venues) , but the team is managed poorly.

    Are you serious?? I mean which venues have been wrong??? Do you know how good the courses the ryder cup has been played on in Europe, then add the amount of spectators which can come too..... I can't think of one bad course or venue ever in the ryder Cup.

    C'mon, The K Club, Celtic Manor, the new course at Gleneagles, the Belfry again and again... these are pretty meh courses. Valderama and Le Golf National are really the only two interesting tracks, since Walton Heath in the early 80s. The competitions themselves have been awesome, especially the Euros winning results, and the courses do serve their 'stadium course' remit, but really that's about it.

    What??? Belfry is one of the finest courses in the UK ffs, add the 10th and 18th drama... The K club... Seriously?? And Celtic Manor, again one of the finest courses around.... And if you think valderama is poor then you don't like golf.... It's an unbelievable course and hard as nails, a brilliant ryder cup course.... I think US sour grapes here.

    The Belfry is the worst Ryder Cup course in my memory. It has two good holes. The other 16 holes should be carpet bombed by the RAF at the earliest opportunity.
    Considering how much I dislike Hazeltine, PGA National and Medinah, you've got to work to get that spot.

    I agree with the above, Valderrama and Le Golf National are the two best in Europe since Walton Heath in 1981.

    Posted:
    swing is irrelevant, score is everything

    just say NO.... to practice swings
  • duffer987duffer987 Meh... eh Canadian in CaliforniaMembers  9957WRX Points: 1,181Handicap: ~8Posts: 9,957 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2265

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @tiderider said:

    all the hyperbole about sawgrass indicates a very narrow-minded and elementary view of golf course design ... it certainly is not as visually appealing as augusta, and obviously not as revered, but it is a fine course, with plenty of thought required to make your way around it ...

    Sure. Never said bull doze it. But. I’m giving you my honest opinion on a large part of why I do not look forward to or enjoy the players nearly as much as any of the 4 majors , jacks tournament or even the API. If I thought hard it may not make top 10. Same field playing pebble or Firestone or Torrey in my opinion , instantly makes for a better event. That’s all I’m saying. It’s cool that others don’t agree .

    I’m not a fan of drive able par 4s with runoffs to water , really a sucker hole design. Also hate the course with no Rough like this year. Not a fan of the island hole. It’s just entertainment for the **** , like nascar wrecks. And hate 18. Why ? I hate a hole that forces a hard hook or fade that also cants away from the dogleg. Basically meaning it’s forcing you to hit a big hook to stay in the fairway. Masking the real purpose. To get you to hit it in the water. Favors certain players too heavily. That fairway should accept either shot shape and it doesn’t unless it’s wet.

    And most importantly , I’ve watched who knows how many players tournaments. And I have trouble remembering more than 5 holes. That’s the mark of a bad course in any designers book. And has been stated by many , many times.

    So neither of you have played the course or even seen it in person. You watch it on TV and probably think the 17th is the whole course. Given that and the way you talk about Pete Dye courses, this is good because it shows me how much credibility to give your views on this.

    Well I’ve also never played Augusta. I assume that also I am clueless about that course , as are you ?

    Why didn’t we just say that unless you’ve played in the players championship, you cannot possibly have an opinion or know anything about what you like. Then it would have been all clear. Wow.

    I’m not saying Sawgrass is a better course. You guys seem to miss that. But Augusta is NOT a natural looking course. You can’t say you think Augusta is so great but Sawgrass is not because Sawgrass doesn’t look natural. That is just hypocritical.
    And if you’ve only seen a course on TV, your view is limited

    So at AGNC they created the massive hill the course sits on? Up to 9, back down again at 10, again some more at 11, down and around till we're playing up and over on 15, then back up 17 and 18?

    How is all that not natural? Oh right, before that is was an old abandoned airfield and you can totally see where all the land was moved to create that :-S

    Posted:
  • BlackDiamondPar5BlackDiamondPar5 Quitting WRX may be in my future... Members  5875WRX Points: 1,197Posts: 5,875 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2266

    Looks like a reincarnated Jones Scott is on the forum :)

    Posted:
  • imakaveliimakaveli Moli Moli Moli Moli Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy... Members  13161WRX Points: 1,026Handicap: 3.8Posts: 13,161 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2267

    On -, @Darth Putter said:

    On -, @scruffynick said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @scruffynick said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    Back in the 1950’s they used to sometimes play at quality courses like Royal Lytham and Pinehurst 2. But yeah, the course will far surpass anything in recent memory.

    On -, @Darth Putter said:

    On -, @Malvern said:

    On -, @golfer07840 said:

    On -, @imakaveli said:

    Can't believe I have to wait 9 months for another Major week, f***.

    And if it was the old schedule, you'd have to wait 8 months. Does that extra 30 days eally matter in the grand scheme of things?

    You guys seem to be forgetting that 2019's biggest event is only 5 months away.........yep, The Presidents Cup.
    I'm almost giddy with excitement at the prospect of Tiger and Ernie trying to ramp up the new duel in the sun (albeit it is Melbourne and could be raining)

    On the other hand, Royal Melbourne is better than EVERY course that's hosted the Ryder Cup.

    And Christy O'Connor Jr's 2 iron on the 18th - at the blah Brabazon course - is better than any shot that's ever been hit in the Presidents Cup ;-)

    The Ryder Cup has basically been played on resort courses in Europe most years, in the US a mix between good private and resort courses.

    While Europe gets it right on how they run the team they almost always get it wrong on the venue. In the US we usually have a really good venue (Mostly former major championship venues) , but the team is managed poorly.

    Are you serious?? I mean which venues have been wrong??? Do you know how good the courses the ryder cup has been played on in Europe, then add the amount of spectators which can come too..... I can't think of one bad course or venue ever in the ryder Cup.

    C'mon, The K Club, Celtic Manor, the new course at Gleneagles, the Belfry again and again... these are pretty meh courses. Valderama and Le Golf National are really the only two interesting tracks, since Walton Heath in the early 80s. The competitions themselves have been awesome, especially the Euros winning results, and the courses do serve their 'stadium course' remit, but really that's about it.

    What??? Belfry is one of the finest courses in the UK ffs, add the 10th and 18th drama... The K club... Seriously?? And Celtic Manor, again one of the finest courses around.... And if you think valderama is poor then you don't like golf.... It's an unbelievable course and hard as nails, a brilliant ryder cup course.... I think US sour grapes here.

    The Belfry is the worst Ryder Cup course in my memory. It has two good holes. The other 16 holes should be carpet bombed by the RAF at the earliest opportunity.
    Considering how much I dislike Hazeltine, PGA National and Medinah, you've got to work to get that spot.

    I agree with the above, Valderrama and Le Golf National are the two best in Europe since Walton Heath in 1981.

    Just wait till Italy 2022, still have no idea why they choosed that place 😩 better, I kinda know that and it’s not because it’s a great course...

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • imakaveliimakaveli Moli Moli Moli Moli Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy... Members  13161WRX Points: 1,026Handicap: 3.8Posts: 13,161 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2268

    Perfection!

    Posted:
  • duffer987duffer987 Meh... eh Canadian in CaliforniaMembers  9957WRX Points: 1,181Handicap: ~8Posts: 9,957 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 23, 2019 #2269

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @duffer987 said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @LICC said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @tiderider said:

    all the hyperbole about sawgrass indicates a very narrow-minded and elementary view of golf course design ... it certainly is not as visually appealing as augusta, and obviously not as revered, but it is a fine course, with plenty of thought required to make your way around it ...

    Sure. Never said bull doze it. But. I’m giving you my honest opinion on a large part of why I do not look forward to or enjoy the players nearly as much as any of the 4 majors , jacks tournament or even the API. If I thought hard it may not make top 10. Same field playing pebble or Firestone or Torrey in my opinion , instantly makes for a better event. That’s all I’m saying. It’s cool that others don’t agree .

    I’m not a fan of drive able par 4s with runoffs to water , really a sucker hole design. Also hate the course with no Rough like this year. Not a fan of the island hole. It’s just entertainment for the **** , like nascar wrecks. And hate 18. Why ? I hate a hole that forces a hard hook or fade that also cants away from the dogleg. Basically meaning it’s forcing you to hit a big hook to stay in the fairway. Masking the real purpose. To get you to hit it in the water. Favors certain players too heavily. That fairway should accept either shot shape and it doesn’t unless it’s wet.

    And most importantly , I’ve watched who knows how many players tournaments. And I have trouble remembering more than 5 holes. That’s the mark of a bad course in any designers book. And has been stated by many , many times.

    So neither of you have played the course or even seen it in person. You watch it on TV and probably think the 17th is the whole course. Given that and the way you talk about Pete Dye courses, this is good because it shows me how much credibility to give your views on this.

    Well I’ve also never played Augusta. I assume that also I am clueless about that course , as are you ?

    Why didn’t we just say that unless you’ve played in the players championship, you cannot possibly have an opinion or know anything about what you like. Then it would have been all clear. Wow.

    I’m not saying Sawgrass is a better course. You guys seem to miss that. But Augusta is NOT a natural looking course. You can’t say you think Augusta is so great but Sawgrass is not because Sawgrass doesn’t look natural. That is just hypocritical.
    And if you’ve only seen a course on TV, your view is limited

    So at AGNC they created the massive hill the course sits on? Up to 9, back down again at 10, again some more at 11, down and around till we're playing up and over on 15, then back up 17 and 18?

    How is all that not natural? Oh right, before that is was an old abandoned airfield and you can totally see where all the land was moved to create that :-S

    Augusta’s bunkers are not natural looking. Its mounding around its greens is not natural looking. Its fairways lines are not natural looking. Its pond on 16 is not natural looking. Its overall manicured look is not natural. It’s beautiful and great, but not natural looking.

    So Augusta's bunkers are 'not natural looking', but would you say the Old Course's are?

    And you must think the mounding around the 5th green at Portrush is not natural too?

    I guess if the pond was full of algae and maybe had a couple car tires sticking out of it, that'd be more a pond's natural state ;-)

    But with water hazards you must fine the wood and concrete burns on Carnoustie and other courses terribly contrived as well, as they've changed their natural routing and look.

    Interesting how you cannot see the forest for all these plastic trees you say you see instead.

    Posted:
  • Dave230Dave230 Members  3948WRX Points: 428Posts: 3,948 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2270

    K Club is a good course but not a great course, I'd say there's maybe 20 better than it in Ireland. But it's the sort of course that suits hosting competitions because certain holes suit TV and there's a massive amount of space for various commitments during a tournament week.

    If it was just about the course you'd pick a Ballyliffin or a Royal Dornoch but Ryder Cups are a big business and a lot of people and the world's media have to be accommodated.

    Posted:
  • Mikey5eMikey5e ohioUnregistered  1441WRX Points: 374Handicap: 15Posts: 1,441 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2271

    The Masters and US Open trump the Brittish Open in terms of fan interest.

    Posted:
  • jmckjmck Members  4770WRX Points: 802Posts: 4,770 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2272

    On -, @Mikey5e said:

    The Masters and US Open trump the Brittish Open in terms of fan interest.

    Definitely true in the state of Georgia.

    Probably true in the USA.

    In the rest of the world? Eh, not so much.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

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  • scruffynickscruffynick manchester, UKMembers  1657WRX Points: 198Handicap: 5....soon to be 6 I think Posts: 1,657 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2273

    On -, @Mikey5e said:

    The Masters and US Open trump the Brittish Open in terms of fan interest.

    No it doesnt, certainly not in Europe and uk were the open is by far regarded as the number 1. If you're a US citizen it's different but please don't come across very arrogant saying the oldest and original major isn't in a level of interest as the US open

    Posted:
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