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Swing advice needed. Slicing all clubs - please help


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Hi,

Used to play to a semi decent level when I was young (8-9 h'cap) , but a year after getting back into the game, i'm really struggling. Feel like every shot is just a swipe across the ball. Have had some lessons - but being told to swing right just doesn't seem to work for me. Any thoughts?

Slow motion dtl video from the net today:

Thanks in advance!

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Club is open on downswing - need the motorcycle move, ie somewhere in backswing/transition.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

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Club is open on the downswing for sure. But what's one of the bigger reasons why?

Your posture / address position needs some attention. You are too close to the ball. Grip end is pointing at or above your belly button at address.

Get in your address position, then scoot back away from the ball until the end of your grip points at your belt buckle. Should be about one hand length between your body and the end of the grip. That is if you put the heel of your hand on your waist and the end of your fingers to the grip.

Bottom line - you don't have enough room to swing through impact zone. No room - means you won't have won't be able to square up the club.

Posture is often overlooked by us amateurs. Bad posture will make good swings hard to come by.

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> @Bandonhacker said:

> Ok, thanks. This should get the face pointing at the sky at the top of backswing? Any thoughts on path - a recent trackman experience has me out about 4-5 out to in with irons and double that with my driver - this game is hard!

 

> @Bandonhacker said:

> Ok, thanks. This should get the face pointing at the sky at the top of backswing? Any thoughts on path - a recent trackman experience has me out about 4-5 out to in with irons and double that with my driver - this game is hard!

 

Yo are correct it is hard. So fix one thing. Get that fave a bit closed in backswing/transition. That’ll be hard enough. You’ve got option when to do it as well as whether to flex your left wrist or extend your right wrist more or a bit of both.

No to mention when.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

#Kwonified

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> @wagolfer7 said:

> Club is open on the downswing for sure. But what's one of the bigger reasons why?

> Your posture / address position needs some attention. You are too close to the ball. Grip end is pointing at or above your belly button at address.

> Get in your address position, then scoot back away from the ball until the end of your grip points at your belt buckle. Should be about one hand length between your body and the end of the grip. That is if you put the heel of your hand on your waist and the end of your fingers to the grip.

> Bottom line - you don't have enough room to swing through impact zone. No room - means you won't have won't be able to square up the club.

> Posture is often overlooked by us amateurs. Bad posture will make good swings hard to come by.

 

Thanks - that makes sense and that lack of gap between my thighs and hands at impact is very clear - I'll give that a go. So basically more bent at the hips to allow more room!

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> @glk said:

> > @Bandonhacker said:

> > Ok, thanks. This should get the face pointing at the sky at the top of backswing? Any thoughts on path - a recent trackman experience has me out about 4-5 out to in with irons and double that with my driver - this game is hard!

>

> > @Bandonhacker said:

> > Ok, thanks. This should get the face pointing at the sky at the top of backswing? Any thoughts on path - a recent trackman experience has me out about 4-5 out to in with irons and double that with my driver - this game is hard!

>

> Yo are correct it is hard. So fix one thing. Get that fave a bit closed in backswing/transition. That’ll be hard enough. You’ve got option when to do it as well as whether to flex your left wrist or extend your right wrist more or a bit of both.

> No to mention when.

>

 

Cheers - i find any attempt to bow the left wrist difficult (i have a readonably strong left hand grip) so maybe focusing on the right wrist would be more productive.

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> @Bandonhacker said:

> > @wagolfer7 said:

> > Club is open on the downswing for sure. But what's one of the bigger reasons why?

> > Your posture / address position needs some attention. You are too close to the ball. Grip end is pointing at or above your belly button at address.

> > Get in your address position, then scoot back away from the ball until the end of your grip points at your belt buckle. Should be about one hand length between your body and the end of the grip. That is if you put the heel of your hand on your waist and the end of your fingers to the grip.

> > Bottom line - you don't have enough room to swing through impact zone. No room - means you won't have won't be able to square up the club.

> > Posture is often overlooked by us amateurs. Bad posture will make good swings hard to come by.

>

> Thanks - that makes sense and that lack of gap between my thighs and hands at impact is very clear - I'll give that a go. So basically more bent at the hips to allow more room!

 

No not more bend at the waist. Look up some info on good posture. And work on it in the mirror. You want straight posture with a bend at the hips.

Just my opinion, but I would not be concerned about your wrist positions. That's a good way to start focusing on something that is not going to help you out right now. Work on the boring stuff. Good posture, good grip, good shoulder turn.

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> @wagolfer7 said:

> > @Bandonhacker said:

> > > @wagolfer7 said:

> > > Club is open on the downswing for sure. But what's one of the bigger reasons why?

> > > Your posture / address position needs some attention. You are too close to the ball. Grip end is pointing at or above your belly button at address.

> > > Get in your address position, then scoot back away from the ball until the end of your grip points at your belt buckle. Should be about one hand length between your body and the end of the grip. That is if you put the heel of your hand on your waist and the end of your fingers to the grip.

> > > Bottom line - you don't have enough room to swing through impact zone. No room - means you won't have won't be able to square up the club.

> > > Posture is often overlooked by us amateurs. Bad posture will make good swings hard to come by.

> >

> > Thanks - that makes sense and that lack of gap between my thighs and hands at impact is very clear - I'll give that a go. So basically more bent at the hips to allow more room!

>

> No not more bend at the waist. Look up some info on good posture. And work on it in the mirror. You want straight posture with a bend at the hips.

> Just my opinion, but I would not be concerned about your wrist positions. That's a good way to start focusing on something that is not going to help you out right now. Work on the boring stuff. Good posture, good grip, good shoulder turn.

 

Wrist conditions are more important than a minor posture adjustment. He is not going to square that face cause he sets up a bit better and get rid of his scoop flip.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

#Kwonified

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> @glk said:

> > @wagolfer7 said:

> > > @Bandonhacker said:

> > > > @wagolfer7 said:

> > > > Club is open on the downswing for sure. But what's one of the bigger reasons why?

> > > > Your posture / address position needs some attention. You are too close to the ball. Grip end is pointing at or above your belly button at address.

> > > > Get in your address position, then scoot back away from the ball until the end of your grip points at your belt buckle. Should be about one hand length between your body and the end of the grip. That is if you put the heel of your hand on your waist and the end of your fingers to the grip.

> > > > Bottom line - you don't have enough room to swing through impact zone. No room - means you won't have won't be able to square up the club.

> > > > Posture is often overlooked by us amateurs. Bad posture will make good swings hard to come by.

> > >

> > > Thanks - that makes sense and that lack of gap between my thighs and hands at impact is very clear - I'll give that a go. So basically more bent at the hips to allow more room!

> >

> > No not more bend at the waist. Look up some info on good posture. And work on it in the mirror. You want straight posture with a bend at the hips.

> > Just my opinion, but I would not be concerned about your wrist positions. That's a good way to start focusing on something that is not going to help you out right now. Work on the boring stuff. Good posture, good grip, good shoulder turn.

>

> Wrist conditions are more important than a minor posture adjustment. He is not going to square that face cause he sets up a bit better and get rid of his scoop flip.

 

To be fair, both of you are probably right, improving posture should be an easy fix (at least while at the range) but definitely a squarer clubface will make my current swing somewhat playable. It is probably hard to swing right if your body knows the club is open. Cheers for the help.

 

Any thoughts from others would also be appreciated.

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> @Bandonhacker said:

> > @glk said:

> > > @wagolfer7 said:

> > > > @Bandonhacker said:

> > > > > @wagolfer7 said:

> > > > > Club is open on the downswing for sure. But what's one of the bigger reasons why?

> > > > > Your posture / address position needs some attention. You are too close to the ball. Grip end is pointing at or above your belly button at address.

> > > > > Get in your address position, then scoot back away from the ball until the end of your grip points at your belt buckle. Should be about one hand length between your body and the end of the grip. That is if you put the heel of your hand on your waist and the end of your fingers to the grip.

> > > > > Bottom line - you don't have enough room to swing through impact zone. No room - means you won't have won't be able to square up the club.

> > > > > Posture is often overlooked by us amateurs. Bad posture will make good swings hard to come by.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks - that makes sense and that lack of gap between my thighs and hands at impact is very clear - I'll give that a go. So basically more bent at the hips to allow more room!

> > >

> > > No not more bend at the waist. Look up some info on good posture. And work on it in the mirror. You want straight posture with a bend at the hips.

> > > Just my opinion, but I would not be concerned about your wrist positions. That's a good way to start focusing on something that is not going to help you out right now. Work on the boring stuff. Good posture, good grip, good shoulder turn.

> >

> > Wrist conditions are more important than a minor posture adjustment. He is not going to square that face cause he sets up a bit better and get rid of his scoop flip.

>

> To be fair, both of you are probably right, improving posture should be an easy fix (at least while at the range) but definitely a squarer clubface will make my current swing somewhat playable. It is probably hard to swing right if your body knows the club is open. Cheers for the help.

>

> Any thoughts from others would also be appreciated.

 

Glk is right. Clubface is much more important right now.

 

 

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With his swing plane and transition move he needs more space to be able to not come over the top.

Different eyes, see different things and have different opinions.

You guys think setting his wrist different is going to help. I think no matter what unless he gives himself more space, turns shoulders at a different angle or adjusts his transition move he's going to struggle to not come over the top. All 3 of those things would create more room through impact. He has no room right now, to not go over the top. He wants to fix his out to in swing path. He swings slightly flat and then has no room to come down on the same path. His only option is to come down on the out path and come over the top.

My opinion is posture is a lot more important than most give it credit for. You say minor adjustment, I say huge adjustment for a guy in OP's current position.

OP has the right attitude. He'll take all advice and see what works for him.

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Problem is he is not coming over the top - his path is pretty neutral, neither out to the right or in to the left. If anything he isn't applying much ulnar deviation starting from shaft parallel so he squares the face more with getting his right shoulder to go into internal rotations - if he added UD he'd probably be swinging a bit out to the right. If anything on his setup, he just needs to stand up a bit more - his shoulders are just a bit too much toward his toes. Can he further improve his setup, certainly, his backswing, his transition, release . . . most definitely, but one can't play decent golf with an open face.

 

And he looks crowded because he get his right hip out to the ball too early and his arms are then behind his pivot.

This would be another good drill for him

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

#Kwonified

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> @glk said:

> Problem is he is not coming over the top - his path is pretty neutral, neither out to the right or in to the left. If anything he isn't applying much ulnar deviation starting from shaft parallel so he squares the face more with getting his right shoulder to go into internal rotations - if he added UD he'd probably be swinging a bit out to the right. If anything on his setup, he just needs to stand up a bit more - his shoulders are just a bit too much toward his toes. Can he further improve his setup, certainly, his backswing, his transition, release . . . most definitely, but one can't play decent golf with an open face.

>

> And he looks crowded because he get his right hip out to the ball too early and his arms are then behind his pivot.

> This would be another good drill for him

>

 

Interesting drill - just tried it without a ball and I definitely found myself having to shift to the left in transition more and speeding up my arms - a little worried that I'll break my wrist when i do try it with a ball!

 

Played today and tried to keep the clubface looking at the ball for longer on the backswing - slice was more controllable at least - more of a pull cut rather than a push cut.

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> @Bandonhacker said:

> > @glk said:

> > Problem is he is not coming over the top - his path is pretty neutral, neither out to the right or in to the left. If anything he isn't applying much ulnar deviation starting from shaft parallel so he squares the face more with getting his right shoulder to go into internal rotations - if he added UD he'd probably be swinging a bit out to the right. If anything on his setup, he just needs to stand up a bit more - his shoulders are just a bit too much toward his toes. Can he further improve his setup, certainly, his backswing, his transition, release . . . most definitely, but one can't play decent golf with an open face.

> >

> > And he looks crowded because he get his right hip out to the ball too early and his arms are then behind his pivot.

> > This would be another good drill for him

> >

>

> Interesting drill - just tried it without a ball and I definitely found myself having to shift to the left in transition more and speeding up my arms - a little worried that I'll break my wrist when i do try it with a ball!

>

> Played today and tried to keep the clubface looking at the ball for longer on the backswing - slice was more controllable at least - more of a pull cut rather than a push cut.

 

Yes not the drill to do at full speed until you've gained confidence at lower speeds (if ever). It gets me to have a deeper right hip turn as well as synch up the arms and turn so that you hip doesn't get in the way.

I like the idea of extending my right wrist through the takeaway - just get it started so that by the top I have it extended - I think in and up not face looking at ball - find it tends to get me to take the club outside versus getting in then up.

Just more reinforce on the importance of face.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

#Kwonified

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Bandonhacker,

 

IMO you're folding your right arm too much in the back swing and laying your lead arm across the chest. Try to keep your right elbow straight(ish) in the back-swing (you will not be able to do it) and do not allow the right elbow to bend more than 90 degrees at the top. Less is fine, though.

The grip is slightly on the weak side of neutral, looks to be fit for a fade.

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If it's in your wheel house nothing better than finding a really good instructor locally but that can be difficult depending on where you live. Otherwise

online with guys like Monte or iteach from here are inexpensive and are better than paying $75 for a in person with club pro that spends most time running the course etc versus focusing on teaching - not that they can't be found but guys that are teaching pros for a living are going to be way better. If there are junior programs near you finding out who teaches could a way to find one.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

"for I think a law that is not just, is not actually a law" ("nam mihi lex esse non videtur, quae justa non fuerit")  Saint Augustine of Hippo

#Kwonified

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Two very good drills if you want to do it yourself:

 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/146842/9-3-drill-and-much-much-more

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/791161/get-your-arm-swing-and-pivot-in-sync/p1

 

The two authors have different check-points to their drills. However, both emphasize pivot-driven swings and getting hands and pivot in sync is one very important thing they have in common.

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Left arm is fully dedicated and glued to your chest all the way to impact. As a result, your impact position is incredibly cramped and your arms never actually get out in front of you.

Pause the video right at impact and look at your arms. Everything is tucked in so tight!

Get your arms out in front of you.

Whatever driver happens to be working at the time
Some random 3 wood
My same, old irons
A few wedges...
Scotty Cameron Fastback

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Thanks @glk - that's definitely the best call!

 

@Lefthook - plenty of material there. Would that be similar to the point being made by glk in relation to my hips preventing my arms having any room, or do you see any posture issues causing this? Basically the same point that you're making @"Smash Factors" ? Does that arm separation from the chest need to happen in transition when i shift left? Are my shoulders opening to early and preventing this?

 

Cheers everyone for all the feedback so far. It's much appreciated.

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> @"Smash Factors" ? Does that arm separation from the chest need to happen in transition when i shift left? Are my shoulders opening to early and preventing this? Cheers everyone for all the feedback so far. It's much appreciated.

Yeah, that's a good question. It looks like you might not be making a big enough shoulder turn and you're finishing your backswing with the arms.

Thing is, I can't really complain about your setup position because it's pretty good. So the problem is happening somewhere towards the top of the swing and in the downswing. It's like you're over-swinging and then relying on dragging your left arm to the ball with your shoulder rotation. It's probably really comfortable for you to do that, but at some point your arms need to be more active to where they're out in front of you when hitting the ball.

You should be doing a 9 to 3 drill.

 

Whatever driver happens to be working at the time
Some random 3 wood
My same, old irons
A few wedges...
Scotty Cameron Fastback

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Hi OP.

 

Rather than tell you what I think you ought to do to fix your slice, I’ll just tell you my checklist when things seem to be all headed right (as a right handed player).

 

Posture- straight back, not hunched over.

Grip- light to medium. A tight grip always tends to have a fade effect for me.

Strengthen grip, two knuckles on my left hand visible at address.

Ball position- not too far forward. More neutral a position. Getting the ball too far forward seems to cause me to delay my release and I come across the face, out to in, giving it that side spin to go right.

 

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if that checklist will help you figure it out.

 

For what it’s worth, after viewing your video my first impression was too close to the ball/ hunched over. At 6’2” I really need space to close the face with a pretty long swing.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Good luck!!

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I slowed your video down even more and it seems to me your swing path isn't coming from the inside OR the outside. You are catching the ball at the top of your swing arc.

 

Remember the new flight rules:

1: (for the most part) face angle controls initial flight of ball

2: (for the most part) swing path controls curve of flight (because it is adding the most sidespin)

 

But, in your case, the swing path is coming in directly behind the ball, it isn't adding any sidespin. So the open face angle is solely responsible for the sidespin, producing a fade. From just looking at your swing, I'd guess your ball flight is a push-fade (ball starts out right then curves right).

 

I'd focus on changing your swing path, not the face angle. If you can learn to come from the inside, with your current face angle, your ball will start to the right then draw back to the left--a pretty good shot.

 

If you close your face angle without changing the swing path, your ball will start out to the left and then curve to the left--the opposite problem of the one you have now.

 

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It looks like my post was eaten by the editor. Here's try two.

 

I slowed down your video further. It looks like you are catching the ball at the top of your swing arc. Meaning your aren't coming from the inside OR the outside. You are coming directly behind the ball. Remember the new swing rules:

 

1: (for the most part) the face angle controls the initial direction of ball flight

2: (for the most part) the swing path controls the curve of the ball flight (because it imparts the most sidespin)

 

Since your swing path is coming in directly behind the ball, it isn't imparting ANY sidespin. So, all the sidespin is being imparted by the club face angle. If I had guess form just the video, I would say your ball flight is a push-fade/slice (starts right then curves farther to the right).

 

I would leave the face angle alone for the moment, and concentrate on developing an inside swing path. This would give you a push-draw ball flight (ball starts right then curves to the left)--a playable ball flight.

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      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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