Playing different Tee boxes w/ handicaps

looking for confirmation- and thanks in advance for your insight-

if i'm playing the Blue Tee box at 6800 yrds and a course rating of ( 73 ) at a (4 cap) and my opponent is playing the Golds at 5800 yrds and course rating (68) at (9 cap) he is giving me the difference in course rating 73-68 = 5 shots back so i'm playing even w/ him ?? but i would only give him the 5 shots if we are playing the same Tee box ?

Gotta figure course cap first then adjust for playing different tees. Probably will be playing even unless the slope is fairly high.

hey Sniper,,thanks for the reply but course cap ? we have the Blues at 73/136 and 6800 yards the Golds at 68/121 at 5800- yards ,how do i find the course cap ? T

@SNIPERBBB is right. First figure your course handicap from the tee that you are playing. then adjust for the difference in Course Rating. See 9-3c in the USGA Handicap Manual

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14387

so still confused--- the course handicap is NOT the course rating ?

A player's Course Handicap is determined by multiplying a Handicap Index by the Slope Rating of the tees played and then dividing by 113. (See Section 3-3.) The resulting figure is rounded off to the nearest whole number (.5 or more is rounded upward).

thanks SNIPER much appreciated

You can’t know what your handicap from a particular tee will be unless you use the slope and your index to calculate it (unless your index is zero point zero). So I’m wondering if the 4 and 9 in the op are accurate.

This is easy. Download the GHIN app to your mobile phone. I explain how to do it in this recent thread: "Competing from different tees." Post #15:

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1769352/competing-from-different-tees#latest

Just tell him you want the extra shots unless he wants to step up and play the blue tees.

This is one of the single hardest things to explain to most players and yet one of the single most fair and easiest things to do once you understand it.

But I’m still explaining it to our members. And most look at me as if I’m making it up.

Op. It will help to add the calculated differential to the longest tee player instead of subtracting it from the front tee player. It’s just a psychological trick. But it works better. People rail against having anything taken away. But won’t fight as much of it’s added to the other guy.

GHIN does all of the calculations for you. You don't even need to understand the formula.

The USGA has an opportunity to make this issue go away when the WHS comes online. As I understand it an additional adjustment can (optionally) be made to CH with is "CR - CoursePar". Using that definition of CH, there would be no additional adjustment to make.

But I envision this being very unpopular at least at our club. We are mostly an old group and mostly play the 'senior tees' where CR is several strokes less than par. In this situation golfers will be losing several strokes (predominantly various forms of handicapped team play) and that won't be popular, even if it doesn't change anything WRT the competition. These guys just don't like taking a net bogey.

dave

**Step 1, CALCULATE COURSE HANDICAP**

Since you don't mention the slope of either tee box, I'll just make something up:

Player "A" 4.0 index is playing a 73.0 /135 tee box

Player "B" 9.0 index is playing a 68.0 / 115 tee box

Player A = 4.0 * 135 / 113=4.78, rounded to a **5 course handicap**

Player B = 9.0 * 115 / 113 = 9.16, rounded to a **9 course handicap**

**STEP 2, Adjust for Course Rating**

If that was the end of the calculation, the Player B would get 4 shots, the difference of 9-5... but it's not. Now you factor in the difference in the tee box course rating. Since there are just two of you, it's a simple calculation. Player A is playing a tee box which is 5 shots higher in the course rating than Player B, so player B actually GIVES a stroke to Player A

(9 - 5) + (68 - 73) = -1

The reason all this isn't (or shouldn't be) nearly as complicated in practice as it is when it's spelled out in detail is this. If you were all playing from the same tees, everyone is presumed to know their correct course handicap. That's pretty basic USGA Handicapping 101 stuff, same as always.

The only additional item of information needed when playing mixed tees is the difference in the course rating, rounded off to an even number of strokes. Everyone uses their normal Course Handicap, same as any time they play their favorite tees. Then add or subtract (I prefer add, most groups do subtract) the course-rating difference. Then go play.

I have often wondered why people play off of different tees based off of HCP and not distance. My Dad who is a better player than I barely hits his driver 200yds TD. I can hit 240-250yds TD. Yet he plays off the same tees as I do. Although the course we play on a regular basis only has red/white and most holes there isn't much difference in distance. I have suggested to him he should hit from the reds because there are holes he can't reach in regulation due to his lack of distance.

After many years (decades?) of normal play at our club being strictly tees based on age, over the past 5-6 years it's become the norm for players to choose tees based on distance. My normal daily dogfight groups have guys who drive it anywhere form 180 to maybe 270 yards and who hit anywhere from a 7-wood down to 9-iron from 150 yards.

It's just more enjoyable for everyone if the "Par 4" holes are actually reachable in two shots for everyone. If you had a group where the same hole were 3-wood/Wedge for one guy and driver, fairway, then a 40-yard chip for another they can't really get into a flow of playing more or less side by side.

Also we have guys who are routinely shooting in the 70's mixed in with guys who are both short-hitters AND high handicappers. Push a guy who shoots around 85 and drives it 190 back a set of tees and he's going to struggle to break 90. Again, too much disparity ruins the social element of the game IMO.

> @hacker49 said:

> I have often wondered why people play off of different tees based off of HCP and not distance. My Dad who is a better player than I barely hits his driver 200yds TD. I can hit 240-250yds TD. Yet he plays off the same tees as I do. Although the course we play on a regular basis only has red/white and most holes there isn't much difference in distance. I have suggested to him he should hit from the reds because there are holes he can't reach in regulation due to his lack of distance.

Agreed. It's tough to change the minds of those who have 'age' or 'gender' pounded into their minds concerning tee selection for so long. Then again maybe I will think differently when I get to their age.

I always man-plain it this way. If there was a course that was way too tough or too easy for you or that you just didn't have fun at for some reason, you'd feel no shame in going somewhere else to play golf. Of course we play more often at courses we really like.

So if there's a couple of tee boxes you really don't like (for instance I would purely hate the 6,900 tips and 4,800 ladies tees at my home course) there shouldn't be any shame in choosing to play the set that you really like. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. Maximize your enjoyment.

larrybud has it spot on and we all understand its a game and play to have fun but in reality i'm talking playing for $$$ this is why this becomes the issue, so when my 9 handicap playing 'friend' playing the GOLD Tees collects $$$ everyday because i'm giving SHOTS and Tee box distance and constantly smiles affectionately while inserting my $$$ in his pocket i'm just giving my $$$ away at a disadvantage ,when the Tee box course rating comes into play to his chagrin we are indeed playing even and on a level playing field,,,,,,