"Carts due in by 8pm!"

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  • mesquite2mesquite2 Members Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd like to know where golf course workers get $14+ an hour, around here it's minimum wage, which just increased to $10 an hour, We have people working at the the course for over 20 years & make that $ 10 an hour, all retired men, no kids working the late shift. Free golf 7 days a week though.

  • Matchplay10033Matchplay10033 Members Posts: 630 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MaineMariner said:
    Let me give you the perspective of a former cart boy:

    Policies like this exist because literally every single day there is someone or some group who refuses to come in when it's too dark to play. "Too dark" is, of course, subjective, and people are CONSTANTLY stretching to play for as long as humanly possible. We'd have people out on the course at 9:15 claiming that they're almost done, just one more hole, etc. The course would always end up paying for two employees to hang out for an hour plus with nothing to do but wait around for this person to bring his cart in. Courses don't typically like to have to pay employees extra time to hang out and do nothing. After the cart comes in, an employee has to clean it out, hose it down, put it with the other carts, lock up the corral or barn or whatever is used for the carts, then go back in to punch out. The other employee would be off collecting the pins. You now have employees who started their day at 1 pm clocking out at 9:00, 9:30, 9:45. Nobody wants this.

    To make a long story short, people ruin everything. YOU might be conscientious and reasonable, but I guarantee you that not everybody else is. It's like paying for twilight rates. If twilight rates start at 4:00 pm and you have a tee time for 3:52, you should ask for and receive the twilight rate, right? Sure, but understand that nearly EVERY DAY we had people trying to definition of "twilight" to 3:30, then 3:00, then 2:30...

    Exactly !!!! I was a cart boy when I was 15 until I went to college. As a 15 year old I would be the ONLY person at the course chasing down goofs on their 30th beer trying to play more holes with a flash light. We have also had people drive the carts into a lake or creek because it was so dark they couldn't see or at 10pm I am still waiting in the darkness because two carts are out.

  • Lloyd_Christmas29Lloyd_Christmas29 Members Posts: 344 ✭✭✭✭

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:
    Most golf courses in my area do indeed have serious financial issues. A large portion of them are going bankrupt, closing all together or hanging on by a thread.

    An average of one course within a hour’s drive of me has closed per year since 2007. And the place I learned to play golf, which back in the 90’s had a full 27-hole tee sheet every Sat/Sun this time of year, has sold off nine holes and can barely afford to keep the grass mowed on the remaining 18.

    Running a business seems simple to anyone who doesn’t run a business.

    while i can appreciate and understand businesses going under - let's not get this confused; no course is going bankrupt b/c the kids are staying an hour longer. they're going under b/c of other things, more often than not it's related to either maintenance, food/beverage or overall lack of demand for any of a billion reasons.

    Agreed, if a course has to start nickeling and diming with their $10 an hour employees, the business is already on its way out. And if saving a couple dollars on wages is a priority over providing the best experience for guests, there's no surprise on why the company is struggling.

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  • kgeisler13kgeisler13 ClubWRX Posts: 380 ClubWRX

    I worked at a private club as a cart boy for about 5-6 years. I loved it and yes there we days in the summer we were there til 10 or 1030pm but hey if the people tipped us I didnt mind. It was good job for a HS/college kid. I agree that is dumb policy. Carts should be in at dark. Yes people should walk more but not everyone is capable of walking 9 holes or 18 for that matter. Since I was a cart boy and did my time I don't feel bad it I don't bring a cart back til 9 930 in the summer.

    KG
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,532 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @kevina001 said:
    It's all about customer service. Too many courses are HORRIBLE at this. Give you an example:
    As I mentioned earlier, Myrtle Beach area courses are often prime offenders of the "carts must be in early" thing. Even though golfers from all over the country travel hundreds of miles and spend thousands of dollars to go on their golf trip, you have courses trying to usher players off the course in the evenings, sometimes HOURS before dark. My group found a course a couple years ago where the starter/cart guy agreed to stay out until dark so our group could do an evening replay. And our group tipped the guy very well and were very appreciative. And every year our group comes back to this course and makes it a point to play there. The same guy was even there the next year and remembered us, and of course was more than happy to let us play in the evening again. We will always go back to that course because they know how to treat its players.

    In a time when courses are struggling and closing left and right, things like this should be no brainers. Don't kick guys off the course before it's dark.

    I live down here and can tell you that is the way things used to be done. Myrtle Beach course managers got too big for their britches until 08 or so. My home course had been through 3 different owner/ management groups before the Founders group bought them out a few years ago. The way of thinking before 08 was screw the locals we can make money off the tourist golfers. When the recession hit in 08 09 they found out when tourism declined what was what. As a whole with most Founders courses you can play until dark cart and all. Like someone else mentioned golf especially here is a service industry. Social media has helped tremendously in this area. I know quite a few folks high up in the Founders group management. They monitor this site and others for negative comment. And resort golf has gotten really completive over the years and not just from Florida anymore. As far as customer service and policies I guess it has a lot to do with the demographics.

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  • Brandons68Brandons68 Members Posts: 79 ✭✭✭

    I work behind the counter at a course. The assistant pro closes it down on the weekends sometimes. People that tee off after about 4pm he tells to hustle up.

  • hgtiger24hgtiger24 Members Posts: 77 ✭✭✭

    If I want to play till 9:30pm then the course can pay to have one employee stay ($15/hr) to put the last carts away. Have the back shop kids clean the four straggler carts the next morning if need be

    cart kids arent making $15 and hour.... far cry from it. most of what they make is in tips (somehow tipping has gone away)
    i hated watching the cart kids stand out there, wash clubs, bring waters, load bags, etc...then get skimmed for no tip. i think there needs to be a reeducation on tipping in golf.
    if i'm at someone's course and i'm even close to the last one out, you better be **** sure i'm tipping those kids well.

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 7, 2019 2:45pm #219

    I'd prefer reeducating courses and clubs to stop having people standing around trying to earn tips by doing silly things like wiping clubs with a damp cloth or lifting clubs out of the trunk to place them on a golf cart.

    I was a guest once a really fancy private club far above my pay grade. When I got back to the locker room after my round of golf my street shoes had been shined. Changed into them for lunch and when I returned to pack up my golf shoes, they had been cleaned and shined.

    This was one of those places where the member pays for everything. Which made it a extremely generous invitation for which I am eternally grateful! I asked the friend who invited me how much tipping was involved when he brought someone there for a round and he said, "I give them a couple hundred for the day, to split among all the staff".

    It's another world.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,886 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:
    I'd prefer reeducating courses and clubs to stop having people standing around trying to earn tips by doing silly things like wiping clubs with a damp cloth or lifting clubs out of the trunk to place them on a golf cart.

    so, you don't like someone taking clubs out of your car for you? or wiping down your clubs?

    you'd have to 're-educate' the industry since, this is considered a courteous, typical practice.

    Epic Flash SZ / 9* (set N/S) / HZRDUS Smoke Green Hulk 60 6.5TX tipped 1.25"
    Epic Flash SZ / 3+ (set -1/N) / HZRDUS Smoke Black 75g 6.5 tipped 2"
    Epic Flash / 5 (set N/S) / BF 90TX Tipped 1.75"
    718 T-MB 2I / PX Flighted 7.0
    785 / 3-PW / PX 7.0
    RTX4 / 52, 59 / DG S400
    Piretti Tour 801R / 35.5"

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:
    I'd prefer reeducating courses and clubs to stop having people standing around trying to earn tips by doing silly things like wiping clubs with a damp cloth or lifting clubs out of the trunk to place them on a golf cart.

    so, you don't like someone taking clubs out of your car for you? or wiping down your clubs?

    you'd have to 're-educate' the industry since, this is considered a courteous, typical practice.

    I'm going to be taking those clubs along on a 5-mile walk with me. So no, I don't need any assistance with the first four feet from my car trunk to my trolley.

    And I actually clean my clubs, including the grips, after every round. So there's no benefit to a quick wipe-down of the clubhead.

    I don't really care who a course chooses to have hanging around. But no amount of "education" is going to induce me to tip for services I neither need or desire.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,886 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:
    I'd prefer reeducating courses and clubs to stop having people standing around trying to earn tips by doing silly things like wiping clubs with a damp cloth or lifting clubs out of the trunk to place them on a golf cart.

    so, you don't like someone taking clubs out of your car for you? or wiping down your clubs?

    you'd have to 're-educate' the industry since, this is considered a courteous, typical practice.

    I'm going to be taking those clubs along on a 5-mile walk with me. So no, I don't need any assistance with the first four feet from my car trunk to my trolley.

    And I actually clean my clubs, including the grips, after every round. So there's no benefit to a quick wipe-down of the clubhead.

    I don't really care who a course chooses to have hanging around. But no amount of "education" is going to induce me to tip for services I neither need or desire.

    ok, so you're that 1 guy. how bout you just educate them that YOU don't need your clubs cleaned or helped out of the car.

    Epic Flash SZ / 9* (set N/S) / HZRDUS Smoke Green Hulk 60 6.5TX tipped 1.25"
    Epic Flash SZ / 3+ (set -1/N) / HZRDUS Smoke Black 75g 6.5 tipped 2"
    Epic Flash / 5 (set N/S) / BF 90TX Tipped 1.75"
    718 T-MB 2I / PX Flighted 7.0
    785 / 3-PW / PX 7.0
    RTX4 / 52, 59 / DG S400
    Piretti Tour 801R / 35.5"

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:
    I'd prefer reeducating courses and clubs to stop having people standing around trying to earn tips by doing silly things like wiping clubs with a damp cloth or lifting clubs out of the trunk to place them on a golf cart.

    so, you don't like someone taking clubs out of your car for you? or wiping down your clubs?

    you'd have to 're-educate' the industry since, this is considered a courteous, typical practice.

    I'm going to be taking those clubs along on a 5-mile walk with me. So no, I don't need any assistance with the first four feet from my car trunk to my trolley.

    And I actually clean my clubs, including the grips, after every round. So there's no benefit to a quick wipe-down of the clubhead.

    I don't really care who a course chooses to have hanging around. But no amount of "education" is going to induce me to tip for services I neither need or desire.

    ok, so you're that 1 guy. how bout you just educate them that YOU don't need your clubs cleaned or helped out of the car.

    The "cart guys" at my club are quite aware of my non-needs. They've seen me 2-3x times a week for a decade-plus. I'd say less than half the people who show up on a given day to play golf use the get-clubs-out-of-trunk service. And fewer still have them wipe their clubs.

    The one service that is widely used is storing clubs and/or push cart in the clubhouse. I don't do that myself but a lot of people do and it's a genuinely nice option to have. It's just a modest monthly fee plus they usually give them attendant five bucks for retrieving them prior to their round. If I didn't take my clubs home to clean them every night I'd be a subscriber to the club storage.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • bigred90gtbigred90gt Lefty Boomers Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:
    I'd prefer reeducating courses and clubs to stop having people standing around trying to earn tips by doing silly things like wiping clubs with a damp cloth or lifting clubs out of the trunk to place them on a golf cart.

    so, you don't like someone taking clubs out of your car for you? or wiping down your clubs?

    you'd have to 're-educate' the industry since, this is considered a courteous, typical practice.

    I know I don't like it. I am more than capable of getting my own clubs out of my truck and I clean them after every shot. I played a course once where while we were putting out on 18, there was a kid near the cart path that just started cleaning everyone's clubs then stood there expecting a tip. It puts you in an awkward position because I didn't ask him to do it, I didn't want him to do it, yet he was expecting to get paid for doing it. Thanks, but no thanks. I very rarely carry cash unless I am going somewhere I know I will need it (a concert, a sporting event, a swap meet, etc). In my mind, going to the golf course is not a place I need to carry cash, so I usually don't.

    Kind of like some of these restaurants where you go to the counter and order, they give you a cup for you to fill your own drink, and when your order is ready the buzzer goes off and you go get your own food. Yet, when you pay, there is a line to add a tip. Why would I tip at a restaurant where I served myself?

  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,886 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bigred90gt said:

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:
    I'd prefer reeducating courses and clubs to stop having people standing around trying to earn tips by doing silly things like wiping clubs with a damp cloth or lifting clubs out of the trunk to place them on a golf cart.

    so, you don't like someone taking clubs out of your car for you? or wiping down your clubs?

    you'd have to 're-educate' the industry since, this is considered a courteous, typical practice.

    I know I don't like it. I am more than capable of getting my own clubs out of my truck and I clean them after every shot. I played a course once where while we were putting out on 18, there was a kid near the cart path that just started cleaning everyone's clubs then stood there expecting a tip. It puts you in an awkward position because I didn't ask him to do it, I didn't want him to do it, yet he was expecting to get paid for doing it. Thanks, but no thanks. I very rarely carry cash unless I am going somewhere I know I will need it (a concert, a sporting event, a swap meet, etc). In my mind, going to the golf course is not a place I need to carry cash, so I usually don't.

    Kind of like some of these restaurants where you go to the counter and order, they give you a cup for you to fill your own drink, and when your order is ready the buzzer goes off and you go get your own food. Yet, when you pay, there is a line to add a tip. Why would I tip at a restaurant where I served myself?

    there is nothing there demanding you tip - nor is there one if someone takes your clubs out of the car or cleans them. that's on YOU if you want those services -- and if you do, it should be your determination to tip them or not.

    if you don't have cash - telling them you don't and that you'd get them next time is a simple fix; or advise them you don't need them cleaned or taken out of your car.

    this ain't that hard.

    is this just a place for griping or some ****? appears that way. started with carts, now it's onto whether or not individuals have specific needs that are or not being met by their clubs, tipping protocol and overall behavior.

    smh. as you were ---

    Epic Flash SZ / 9* (set N/S) / HZRDUS Smoke Green Hulk 60 6.5TX tipped 1.25"
    Epic Flash SZ / 3+ (set -1/N) / HZRDUS Smoke Black 75g 6.5 tipped 2"
    Epic Flash / 5 (set N/S) / BF 90TX Tipped 1.75"
    718 T-MB 2I / PX Flighted 7.0
    785 / 3-PW / PX 7.0
    RTX4 / 52, 59 / DG S400
    Piretti Tour 801R / 35.5"

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 7, 2019 3:05pm #226

    @bigred90gt said:

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:
    I'd prefer reeducating courses and clubs to stop having people standing around trying to earn tips by doing silly things like wiping clubs with a damp cloth or lifting clubs out of the trunk to place them on a golf cart.

    so, you don't like someone taking clubs out of your car for you? or wiping down your clubs?

    you'd have to 're-educate' the industry since, this is considered a courteous, typical practice.

    I know I don't like it. I am more than capable of getting my own clubs out of my truck and I clean them after every shot. I played a course once where while we were putting out on 18, there was a kid near the cart path that just started cleaning everyone's clubs then stood there expecting a tip. It puts you in an awkward position because I didn't ask him to do it, I didn't want him to do it, yet he was expecting to get paid for doing it. Thanks, but no thanks. I very rarely carry cash unless I am going somewhere I know I will need it (a concert, a sporting event, a swap meet, etc). In my mind, going to the golf course is not a place I need to carry cash, so I usually don't.

    That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Usually see it at resort courses. Drives me crazy. I don't want it, not going to tip for it but neither and I going to interrupt what I'm doing to go tell somebody to leave off. That sort of thing isn't a "courtesy" it's an annoyance.

    At my club, those guys are at the clubhouse and it's pretty obvious that you either take your clubs when you finish the round or you ask them to clean them. Or maybe once in a while they'll offer if it's not a regular member. But it's an opt-in type of thing, not aggressively seeking out a tip.

    Kind of like some of these restaurants where you go to the counter and order, they give you a cup for you to fill your own drink, and when your order is ready the buzzer goes off and you go get your own food. Yet, when you pay, there is a line to add a tip. Why would I tip at a restaurant where I served myself?

    I know, what the actual...?

    @gioguy21 said:
    if you don't have cash - telling them you don't and that you'd get them next time is a simple fix; or advise them you don't need them cleaned or taken out of your car.

    this ain't that hard.

    Is it "that hard" to understand that some of us want to just play golf and get on with it, rather than stopping to tell someone we don't want any add-on services?

    My only complaint with "cart guys" being at my club is they do get an hourly wage and it comes out of my dues. Needless expense IMO. But they don't hassle me and they're there for people who want them so, whatever. The objectionable situations are the ones like BigRed describes. Makes me not want to return to a place with that sort of thing.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,886 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:

    @gioguy21 said:
    if you don't have cash - telling them you don't and that you'd get them next time is a simple fix; or advise them you don't need them cleaned or taken out of your car.

    this ain't that hard.

    Is it "that hard" to understand that some of us want to just play golf and get on with it, rather than stopping to tell someone we don't want any add-on services?

    My only complaint with "cart guys" being at my club is they do get an hourly wage and it comes out of my dues. Needless expense IMO. But they don't hassle me and they're there for people who want them so, whatever. The objectionable situations are the ones like BigRed describes. Makes me not want to return to a place with that sort of thing.

    you're a member of a club that provides services FOR MEMBERS OTHER THAN YOU...it's NEEDLESS --TO YOU. your membership fees are not tailored to the Nth degree for things you may or may not find palatable to your tastes.

    if you take out cart guys from the payroll -- how do the carts stay maintained? do you even have carts --- i mean, ****, you don't need them so why have em at all right?

    i think you need to look seriously at your membership sir. you don't eat food there everyday so -- might as well cut back on the food budget. and since you don't play certain tee boxes we could just stop maintaining those too.

    lol

    Epic Flash SZ / 9* (set N/S) / HZRDUS Smoke Green Hulk 60 6.5TX tipped 1.25"
    Epic Flash SZ / 3+ (set -1/N) / HZRDUS Smoke Black 75g 6.5 tipped 2"
    Epic Flash / 5 (set N/S) / BF 90TX Tipped 1.75"
    718 T-MB 2I / PX Flighted 7.0
    785 / 3-PW / PX 7.0
    RTX4 / 52, 59 / DG S400
    Piretti Tour 801R / 35.5"

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,915 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:

    @gioguy21 said:
    if you don't have cash - telling them you don't and that you'd get them next time is a simple fix; or advise them you don't need them cleaned or taken out of your car.

    this ain't that hard.

    Is it "that hard" to understand that some of us want to just play golf and get on with it, rather than stopping to tell someone we don't want any add-on services?

    My only complaint with "cart guys" being at my club is they do get an hourly wage and it comes out of my dues. Needless expense IMO. But they don't hassle me and they're there for people who want them so, whatever. The objectionable situations are the ones like BigRed describes. Makes me not want to return to a place with that sort of thing.

    you're a member of a club that provides services FOR MEMBERS OTHER THAN YOU...it's NEEDLESS --TO YOU. your membership fees are not tailored to the Nth degree for things you may or may not find palatable to your tastes.

    if you take out cart guys from the payroll -- how do the carts stay maintained? do you even have carts --- i mean, ****, you don't need them so why have em at all right?

    i think you need to look seriously at your membership sir. you don't eat food there everyday so -- might as well cut back on the food budget. and since you don't play certain tee boxes we could just stop maintaining those too.

    lol

    I would more than fine at a club without golf carts but that's a complete non-starter. Also fine with no food service, that's a money loser right there.

    But as I keep saying, I have no problem with my club's staff offering to pull clubs out of trunks for tips or whatever. I do have a problem with (usually resort courses in my experience) places where every time you turn around there's someone angling for a tip.

    P.S. I do dream sometimes of playing at a place like some courses I visit in UK where they have one or two "buggies" for disabled use but otherwise everyone just grabs a (usually free) pull or push cart that's sitting next to the clubhouse and off they go. At least I get to do that for a week or so once in a while.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • BNGLBNGL Members Posts: 1,737 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:

    @gioguy21 said:
    if you don't have cash - telling them you don't and that you'd get them next time is a simple fix; or advise them you don't need them cleaned or taken out of your car.

    this ain't that hard.

    Is it "that hard" to understand that some of us want to just play golf and get on with it, rather than stopping to tell someone we don't want any add-on services?

    My only complaint with "cart guys" being at my club is they do get an hourly wage and it comes out of my dues. Needless expense IMO. But they don't hassle me and they're there for people who want them so, whatever. The objectionable situations are the ones like BigRed describes. Makes me not want to return to a place with that sort of thing.

    you're a member of a club that provides services FOR MEMBERS OTHER THAN YOU...it's NEEDLESS --TO YOU. your membership fees are not tailored to the Nth degree for things you may or may not find palatable to your tastes.

    if you take out cart guys from the payroll -- how do the carts stay maintained? do you even have carts --- i mean, ****, you don't need them so why have em at all right?

    i think you need to look seriously at your membership sir. you don't eat food there everyday so -- might as well cut back on the food budget. and since you don't play certain tee boxes we could just stop maintaining those too.

    lol

    I would more than fine at a club without golf carts but that's a complete non-starter. Also fine with no food service, that's a money loser right there.

    But as I keep saying, I have no problem with my club's staff offering to pull clubs out of trunks for tips or whatever. I do have a problem with (usually resort courses in my experience) places where every time you turn around there's someone angling for a tip.

    P.S. I do dream sometimes of playing at a place like some courses I visit in UK where they have one or two "buggies" for disabled use but otherwise everyone just grabs a (usually free) pull or push cart that's sitting next to the clubhouse and off they go. At least I get to do that for a week or so once in a while.

    You don’t have to go to the UK, there’s a place in the states (occasionally goes to Mexico/Canada/Asia for a week or two) get about 45 events year or so, it’s very difficult to get a cart, and they play until dark, and bag drop isn’t there to clean clubs, checks 3 boxes might be a great fit.

  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Matchplay10033 said:

    @MaineMariner said:
    Let me give you the perspective of a former cart boy:

    Policies like this exist because literally every single day there is someone or some group who refuses to come in when it's too dark to play. "Too dark" is, of course, subjective, and people are CONSTANTLY stretching to play for as long as humanly possible. We'd have people out on the course at 9:15 claiming that they're almost done, just one more hole, etc. The course would always end up paying for two employees to hang out for an hour plus with nothing to do but wait around for this person to bring his cart in. Courses don't typically like to have to pay employees extra time to hang out and do nothing. After the cart comes in, an employee has to clean it out, hose it down, put it with the other carts, lock up the corral or barn or whatever is used for the carts, then go back in to punch out. The other employee would be off collecting the pins. You now have employees who started their day at 1 pm clocking out at 9:00, 9:30, 9:45. Nobody wants this.

    To make a long story short, people ruin everything. YOU might be conscientious and reasonable, but I guarantee you that not everybody else is. It's like paying for twilight rates. If twilight rates start at 4:00 pm and you have a tee time for 3:52, you should ask for and receive the twilight rate, right? Sure, but understand that nearly EVERY DAY we had people trying to definition of "twilight" to 3:30, then 3:00, then 2:30...

    Exactly !!!! I was a cart boy when I was 15 until I went to college. As a 15 year old I would be the ONLY person at the course chasing down goofs on their 30th beer trying to play more holes with a flash light. We have also had people drive the carts into a lake or creek because it was so dark they couldn't see or at 10pm I am still waiting in the darkness because two carts are out.

    I didn't this thread was about people staying out past dark. This issue is when courses demand the carts be returned well before it's too dark to play. Like an hour to hour and half before it's too dark to play.

  • BMCBMC Members Posts: 3,644 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:

    @bigred90gt said:

    @gioguy21 said:

    @North Butte said:
    I'd prefer reeducating courses and clubs to stop having people standing around trying to earn tips by doing silly things like wiping clubs with a damp cloth or lifting clubs out of the trunk to place them on a golf cart.

    so, you don't like someone taking clubs out of your car for you? or wiping down your clubs?

    you'd have to 're-educate' the industry since, this is considered a courteous, typical practice.

    I know I don't like it. I am more than capable of getting my own clubs out of my truck and I clean them after every shot. I played a course once where while we were putting out on 18, there was a kid near the cart path that just started cleaning everyone's clubs then stood there expecting a tip. It puts you in an awkward position because I didn't ask him to do it, I didn't want him to do it, yet he was expecting to get paid for doing it. Thanks, but no thanks. I very rarely carry cash unless I am going somewhere I know I will need it (a concert, a sporting event, a swap meet, etc). In my mind, going to the golf course is not a place I need to carry cash, so I usually don't.


    That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Usually see it at resort courses. Drives me crazy. I don't want it, not going to tip for it but neither and I going to interrupt what I'm doing to go tell somebody to leave off. That sort of thing isn't a "courtesy" it's an annoyance.

    At my club, those guys are at the clubhouse and it's pretty obvious that you either take your clubs when you finish the round or you ask them to clean them. Or maybe once in a while they'll offer if it's not a regular member. But it's an opt-in type of thing, not aggressively seeking out a tip.

    Kind of like some of these restaurants where you go to the counter and order, they give you a cup for you to fill your own drink, and when your order is ready the buzzer goes off and you go get your own food. Yet, when you pay, there is a line to add a tip. Why would I tip at a restaurant where I served myself?

    I know, what the actual...?

    @gioguy21 said:
    if you don't have cash - telling them you don't and that you'd get them next time is a simple fix; or advise them you don't need them cleaned or taken out of your car.

    this ain't that hard.

    Is it "that hard" to understand that some of us want to just play golf and get on with it, rather than stopping to tell someone we don't want any add-on services?

    My only complaint with "cart guys" being at my club is they do get an hourly wage and it comes out of my dues. Needless expense IMO. But they don't hassle me and they're there for people who want them so, whatever. The objectionable situations are the ones like BigRed describes. Makes me not want to return to a place with that sort of thing.

    Our private club offers all of these services - included in your membership. It's a non tipping club, and our employees don't expect one. Most upscale private clubs are like this.

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  • jli2636jli2636 Members Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:

    But as I keep saying, I have no problem with my club's staff offering to pull clubs out of trunks for tips or whatever. I do have a problem with (usually resort courses in my experience) places where every time you turn around there's someone angling for a tip.

    This right here is what I have a problem with. You are usually already paying a premium to play courses like this and then it’s “expected” that you tip on top of that. I don’t like things like forced bag drops where you have to drive your car past it or the kid that walks down to the 18th green while I’m putting and wipes my clubs down. In those cases i dont have a chance to say no to those services, they are forced on you. Yeah some people like things like that, I just don’t like it when it’s forced down my throat.

  • Warrior42111Warrior42111 FloridaMembers Posts: 49 ✭✭

    @LeoLeo99 said:

    @Matchplay10033 said:

    @MaineMariner said:
    Let me give you the perspective of a former cart boy:

    Policies like this exist because literally every single day there is someone or some group who refuses to come in when it's too dark to play. "Too dark" is, of course, subjective, and people are CONSTANTLY stretching to play for as long as humanly possible. We'd have people out on the course at 9:15 claiming that they're almost done, just one more hole, etc. The course would always end up paying for two employees to hang out for an hour plus with nothing to do but wait around for this person to bring his cart in. Courses don't typically like to have to pay employees extra time to hang out and do nothing. After the cart comes in, an employee has to clean it out, hose it down, put it with the other carts, lock up the corral or barn or whatever is used for the carts, then go back in to punch out. The other employee would be off collecting the pins. You now have employees who started their day at 1 pm clocking out at 9:00, 9:30, 9:45. Nobody wants this.

    To make a long story short, people ruin everything. YOU might be conscientious and reasonable, but I guarantee you that not everybody else is. It's like paying for twilight rates. If twilight rates start at 4:00 pm and you have a tee time for 3:52, you should ask for and receive the twilight rate, right? Sure, but understand that nearly EVERY DAY we had people trying to definition of "twilight" to 3:30, then 3:00, then 2:30...

    Exactly !!!! I was a cart boy when I was 15 until I went to college. As a 15 year old I would be the ONLY person at the course chasing down goofs on their 30th beer trying to play more holes with a flash light. We have also had people drive the carts into a lake or creek because it was so dark they couldn't see or at 10pm I am still waiting in the darkness because two carts are out.

    I didn't this thread was about people staying out past dark. This issue is when courses demand the carts be returned well before it's too dark to play. Like an hour to hour and half before it's too dark to play.

    Yes, but it's the one or two idiots that stay out past dark who make course have that policy.

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  • mthomp1495mthomp1495 Members Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    My course has no such rule and i've never heard of this rule until reading this thread. I guess I've been lucky. At my course theres still 1 guy in the pro shop who doesn't leave until all carts are in and the parking lot is empty.

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  • dmecca2dmecca2 Scranton, PAMembers Posts: 22 ✭✭

    I try to tip my cart guys well so if they see me on the range when its about to close or with a cart late they will let me finish without a problem

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 12:48pm #236

    @BMC said:
    Our private club offers all of these services - included in your membership. It's a non tipping club, and our employees don't expect one. Most upscale private clubs are like this.

    At a private club where there is that expectation and the "norms" are known that is fine. I am with @North Butte on this. When you are on vacation and you roll into a resort course that you have never played and you aren't super sure where the front door and bag drop are it is awkward when some kid hustles up to abscond your clubs and strap them to a cart. I am kind of particular about how my stuff gets loaded on the cart and how the straps go through the bag so I don't pin down my towel and club brush. I certainly have no expectation that while you are loading my clubs on the cart you clean them. My stuff stays pretty clean due to the wet towel and brush treatment they get.

    Post edited by smashdn on
  • Soloman1Soloman1 Members Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, I hate the whole tipping thing anyway. It’s degrading to both parties. Courses need to pay people to do their job and people shouldn’t expect to be paid extra to do their job. Just do your job.

    It makes me cringe returning to the clubhouse at any course in the US , knowing you’re going to hear the same line, time after time, as somebody make a half attempt to run a nasty cloth over your clubs: “So, how was it out there?”

    Sheesh.

    You know the cart needs to be back by X o’clock before you teed off. Don’t be a jerk.

    I'm quitting at 6.022 x 10^23 posts.
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  • BNGLBNGL Members Posts: 1,737 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    One thing that’s conspicuously missing here is the post saying, “I talked to the pro shop about the “problem” and reached a copacetic accord. Or now I understand what’s going on etc”

  • augustgolfaugustgolf Golf with dignity Coastal NCMembers Posts: 3,926 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @s1mZ said:

    @larrybud said:
    We do play somewhere else. Here in MI right now you can play til 9:30. If some course tells me I have to be off by 8, see ya, enjoy your diminished revenue. We are discussing how stupid of a policy it is.

    Spot on. I think like many threads that go over multiple pages, most people have lost the original argument made by the OP. The debate is about "is this policy reasonable / stupid in summer", and not about changing times because OP said so.
    I stand by my view - the club's policy was informed by whatever factors. If they wont change or realize they may be potentially losing revenue or future members, or if they are happy with this status quo, the solution is to return carts on time / walk / find another course or time. If course is walkable, I am walking definitely. I get to practice several shots, enjoy the air and fitness.

    I worked at a course in SW Michigan growing up, and we had 2 nuclear reactor plants within a 30 mile radius. I welcomed those workers, because they could tee off at 6 pm, and finish at 10 pm, if they played slowly. It stayed light until almost
    10:30 pm, and made for a very long day, as we started play on weekends/holidays at sunrise - usually around 5:45 am.
    And we had our share of idiots - keeping the carts out WELL past sunset. I had a way of dealing with them, tho...

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  • augustgolfaugustgolf Golf with dignity Coastal NCMembers Posts: 3,926 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @cval said:

    @Ferguson said:
    Saw this article and thought of this thread. To those of you feeling like the course should "do something special for you" and stay open with an employee on staff while you finish your round "at your leisure" regardless of hours or rules - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    I am amazed how somebody getting paid to do a job thinks they are asking for something special. Whatever happened to the customer is always right. It is when courses, businesses etc forget the reason they are in business is because of the paying customer. The business can have any policy they want but the customer may never return.

    Who posted about customers coming into a restaurant right before close and expecting a full menu. Why would they not you are open. If I was the owner I would want you serving those customers. You bend over backwards for them you have a customer for life. You tell them to leave they will never return.
    Costco does so well because of their great return policy, trying to return something before Costco was an act of god. (Most of those companies with strict return policies are now out of business).

    I must be the only person denied a return by Costco....nice guys finish last syndrome

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  • Soloman1Soloman1 Members Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Costco doesn’t care because they lose nothing. All returned product goes back to the vendor or destroyed and Costco is credited.

    Customers used to be right, but not anymore. Remember that there’s an entire generation now of completely unreasonable whiners. 😆

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