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"Carts due in by 8pm!"

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  • stryperstryper Members  3469WRX Points: 973Posts: 3,469 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @mthomp1495 said:

    My course has no such rule and i've never heard of this rule until reading this thread. I guess I've been lucky. At my course theres still 1 guy in the pro shop who doesn't leave until all carts are in and the parking lot is empty.

    I’m that one guy in the shop, along with a cook/bartender, waiting for my cart kid to give me the all clear, so we can lock up. It’s a retirement job for me, and entry level for the others, so we’re not being paid much, but we are still being paid to accommodate the one or two customers who paid $25 at twilight starting time three hours earlier.

    From the company’s perspective, the math doesn’t work.

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  • Big BenBig Ben Members  9353WRX Points: 520Handicap: 5Posts: 9,353 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Aug 10, 2019 #243

    If one of the fellas runs out and grabs my sticks I’m more than willing to give him 5 skins. Now if he stands there at the clubhouse and waits for me to walk up to the cart not so much. These kids aren’t getting rich and they are there to support the Customers. I show love when I see an honest effort. I will say, I’m not afraid to ask them to do something msc for me either. And usually they seem plenty willing. It’s a symbiotic relationship.

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  • pinhigh27pinhigh27 Members  9834WRX Points: 348Posts: 9,834 Titanium Tees
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    Course should be open until dark, especially in areas with limited seasons. Pay the kid their 12 bucks an hour or whatever. It's ridiculous.

    You should want people to play your course, ie make money, buy booze, balls, etc. If you say carts in at 8 you're limited people playing after work and etc. Bad business. The costs to keep the kid there are minimal.

    Posted:
  • Hot Rod 71Hot Rod 71 #TheWRX ClubWRX, BST Volunteer Mods  8978WRX Points: 330Handicap: lowPosts: 8,978 ClubWRX
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    On -, @pinhigh27 said:

    Course should be open until dark, especially in areas with limited seasons. Pay the kid their 12 bucks an hour or whatever. It's ridiculous.

    You should want people to play your course, ie make money, buy booze, balls, etc. If you say carts in at 8 you're limited people playing after work and etc. Bad business. The costs to keep the kid there are minimal.

    While I agree with this, the problem is those players who will not voluntarily return their cart to clubhouse at dark. Its been my experience over the last 12 years working in a pro shop that the majority of people do not, and will not return at dark. Apparently the term "dark" is subjective.

    At my course we place signs at the counter and on the front door stating "carts must be returned by ____", and I would tell everyone who checked in for 18 holes from 4:00 and after, and for 9 holes from 6:00 and after. This time designation was 10 minutes later than the sunset time from our local new/weather app. If the app showed sunset was 8:30, the sign would read "carts must be returned by 8:40".

    Most of the time I would allow an additional 10 minutes before it was time to hunt them down. Without fail, I would have send a cart attendant out to find players who would not adhere to the rule. By this time its too dark to see the ball once it leaves the club. They would always act surprised and say something like "oh, I didn't know", or "I can still see".

    I understand that after a long day or week at work, people want to get out and play golf and enjoy themselves. But when the rule is clearly posted, and every player is verbally informed of the rule, and then acknowledges the rule, it is the players' responsibility to govern themselves accordingly. The rule is not in place so we can be jerks or prevent someone's fun, but to protect the players and the course from damaging our equipment or injuring themselves while driving a cart in the dark around a course full of creeks, ditches, water hazards, drop offs, etc. There's also the issue of not being able to see your ball or other players on the course. Its difficult to know when to yell "fore" when you can't see your ball or the location of other players who may be in the line of fire.

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  • dayvei214dayvei214 Members  152WRX Points: 47Posts: 152 Fairways
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    Our course has carts out until it's pitch black... You would think they are playing night golf with glow in the dark balls or something... A little crappy for guys working though.

    Posted:
  • NotYourAverageGolferNotYourAverageGolfer Enjoying the game, one swing at a time Members  22WRX Points: 11Handicap: 4.1Posts: 22 Bunkers
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    I’ve worked pro shop and cart attendant at two separate courses, one a run-down course that is now closed (RIP Beckett) and one private, so I’ve seen it all. I’m all for playing as late as possible, but the owner of the public course didn’t want to pay us more than he had to so we had to tell golfers when they paid to be back by a certain time, which was usually by dark. Of course, this wouldn’t stop guys from being out there until 8:45-9 anyways, even if we did tell then. The private course was different. If members wanted to go out 30 minutes before dark to squeeze in 4-5 holes, they paid for the right to do so. It is a pain when you’ve got homework/studying to do at home (I lived 40 minutes away) but they were the members and we were the employees. We did as we were told. I guess the point i am trying to say is that sometimes it isn’t up to us, but sometimes we do just want to clock out and go home.

    Posted:
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  • jaycevsjaycevs Members  39WRX Points: 35Posts: 39 Bunkers
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    At a course a few weeks ago, I booked a 7 pm time (its dark after 9) because I am playing with a new player. I know when its dark and have no problem if we don't finish. When I check in the guy (likely retired looking for free golf) says "I don't know how you booked that tee time, but I really need you back by 9." I tell him that's fine. Out on the course, around 8 pm he's driving a cart out by us to see where we are. Later I see him again. Finally around 830 he comes back and says he really needs us to get back in by 845, and at this point I finally go off on him. I told him at check in you told me 9, and further the tee time bought was on the course website, asked if he was the owner, and told him based on working at courses for 4 years if management didn't want to sell these tee times they wouldn't be available every single day. Overall, people whine about pace of play and reasons why younger people don't want to play this game, but I have a list of courses in my area that I can expect to encounter angry older guys who shouldn't be the ambassadors of any company, and my guess is I'm not alone.

    Posted:
  • malarijmmalarijm Cleveland, OHMembers  38WRX Points: 23Handicap: 6.7Posts: 38 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Aug 20, 2019 #249

    Two thoughts:
    1) When I am on my deathbed, I am not going to complain about the 4 holes that were mercilessly ripped away from me by the greedy, filthy rich municipal golf operator making boat payments with my twilight greens fee instead of appreciating the ability (physical and financial) to spend an evening playing 12-14 holes at golden hour alone or with friends or loved ones. You are free to spend your time and hard earned money however you choose, but you are making a conscious choice to let this bother you instead of enjoying the game in whatever window life allows you.

    2) I agree that it is frustrating to have to stop playing golf an hour before dark, but supply and demand rule the day. If it were viable to have a club that stays open until the exact minute every patron who paid for discounted golf in a defined window decided they were done, don't you think more clubs would be doing it to differentiate from the other courses in the area? And if you say such courses do exist in your area - appreciate how lucky you are!

    The margins in golf course operation are razor thin for many of the courses applicable to this discussion so I think it is presumptuous to think that these decisions are being made to spite customers rather than for an operational or financial necessity?

    Edit: What happened to

    On -, @jaycevs above is bull ****. When you know the expectations and they change on you, you have every right to find some retribution.
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  • chrisokeefe12chrisokeefe12 Holland, MIMembers  230WRX Points: 66Handicap: 14Posts: 230 Fairways
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    I just played at a course in Northern Michigan and our tee time was 5:30 twilight and I thought we could get 18 in. We made the back 9 by 7:30 and we got kicked off the course. It was such B.S.

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  • Oz MaxOz Max Members  300WRX Points: 157Handicap: 80'sPosts: 300 Greens
    Joined:  edited Aug 20, 2019 #251

    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    I just played at a course in Northern Michigan and our tee time was 5:30 twilight and I thought we could get 18 in. We made the back 9 by 7:30 and we got kicked off the course. It was such B.S.

    Did you pay Twilight fee or full 18 holes fee?
    Edit: I see you paid Twilight fee, can't see why you're complaining

    Posted:
  • chrisokeefe12chrisokeefe12 Holland, MIMembers  230WRX Points: 66Handicap: 14Posts: 230 Fairways
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    On -, @Oz Max said:

    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    I just played at a course in Northern Michigan and our tee time was 5:30 twilight and I thought we could get 18 in. We made the back 9 by 7:30 and we got kicked off the course. It was such B.S.

    Did you pay Twilight fee or full 18 holes fee?
    Edit: I see you paid Twilight fee, can't see why you're complaining

    Well we still had another hour and a half if not 2 hours of daylight left and they wouldn't even let us turn in the cart and walk and the back.

    Posted:

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  • stryperstryper Members  3469WRX Points: 973Posts: 3,469 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    On -, @Oz Max said:

    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    I just played at a course in Northern Michigan and our tee time was 5:30 twilight and I thought we could get 18 in. We made the back 9 by 7:30 and we got kicked off the course. It was such B.S.

    Did you pay Twilight fee or full 18 holes fee?
    Edit: I see you paid Twilight fee, can't see why you're complaining

    Well we still had another hour and a half if not 2 hours of daylight left and they wouldn't even let us turn in the cart and walk and the back.

    Unless there was a shift the earth’s orbit and rotation, at 7:30pm in northern Michigan, it is unlikely that you would have two hours of daylight left. 🤷‍♂️

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  • Oz MaxOz Max Members  300WRX Points: 157Handicap: 80'sPosts: 300 Greens
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    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    On -, @Oz Max said:

    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    I just played at a course in Northern Michigan and our tee time was 5:30 twilight and I thought we could get 18 in. We made the back 9 by 7:30 and we got kicked off the course. It was such B.S.

    Did you pay Twilight fee or full 18 holes fee?
    Edit: I see you paid Twilight fee, can't see why you're complaining

    Well we still had another hour and a half if not 2 hours of daylight left and they wouldn't even let us turn in the cart and walk and the back.

    I hear you, we have a course that closes at 7pm in summer regardless of sunset. But that's why twilight fee exists, so you don't feel too bad about not finishing your round.

    Posted:
  • North ButteNorth Butte Members  11826WRX Points: 1,617Posts: 11,826 Titanium Tees
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    Some people, if you comped them a round at Augusta National, they'd complain that they weren't allowed to drive their carts right up to the green. The concept of a "twilight" green fee for a limited number of holes late in the day is taken as license to stay out there 'til midnight if they like, for their $15.

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  • Hot Rod 71Hot Rod 71 #TheWRX ClubWRX, BST Volunteer Mods  8978WRX Points: 330Handicap: lowPosts: 8,978 ClubWRX
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    On -, @Oz Max said:

    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    On -, @Oz Max said:

    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    I just played at a course in Northern Michigan and our tee time was 5:30 twilight and I thought we could get 18 in. We made the back 9 by 7:30 and we got kicked off the course. It was such B.S.

    Did you pay Twilight fee or full 18 holes fee?
    Edit: I see you paid Twilight fee, can't see why you're complaining

    Well we still had another hour and a half if not 2 hours of daylight left and they wouldn't even let us turn in the cart and walk and the back.

    I hear you, we have a course that closes at 7pm in summer regardless of sunset. But that's why twilight fee exists, so you don't feel too bad about not finishing your round.

    A large percentage of players do not understand the "twilight" rate. They think it entitles them to 18 holes of golf, no matter what time they start or what time it gets dark.

    A few years back a guy came in the shop around 5:30. It was getting dark around 7:30 at this time. He said "I want to play 18 holes". I said "okay, can you play 18 holes is 2 hours?" He said "2 hours?? Why 2 hours?? Its not going to be dark for another 3.5 to 4 hours!". I pulled up the weather app on my phone and showed him sunset time, which was 7:20. He said "when did it start getting dark so early??" Huh?

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  • llewol007llewol007 4KidsGolfer San Jose, CaClubWRX  3756WRX Points: 245Handicap: 4.1Posts: 3,756 ClubWRX
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    Not sure how much daylight you get but usually it is really close to darkness where I live. We walked because of that rule especially since we had a 4 pm tee time. The groups behind us had carts and you can see them stacking up behind us. They got to number 17 and eventually went it. It was close to 830 by then.

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  • bigdanebigdane Mr. Kristianstad, SwedenMembers  78WRX Points: 117Handicap: 8Posts: 78 Fairways
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    On -, @jerebear21 said:

    at our club and most private clubs we can play till the dusk of dawn and the cart folks would still have to wait but do you really want to be that guy holding up the entire crew because you're trying to get in one more hole to post a score that wouldn't matter since you playing alone?

    growing the game should mean a permanent ban on carts. Especially those 6pm cart folks who wants to squeeze in all 18 at twilight rate.

    We solved all those problems at our local golf course - in an easy and practical way:
    On the key ring for the cart key, we added a key for the cart barn. There we have numbered the place for each cart and over each space, we placed instructions of how to correctly connect the chargers.
    Really is quite simple, isn't it?

    Posted:
  • LokiLoki Members  1297WRX Points: 232Posts: 1,297 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @bigdane said:

    On -, @jerebear21 said:

    at our club and most private clubs we can play till the dusk of dawn and the cart folks would still have to wait but do you really want to be that guy holding up the entire crew because you're trying to get in one more hole to post a score that wouldn't matter since you playing alone?

    growing the game should mean a permanent ban on carts. Especially those 6pm cart folks who wants to squeeze in all 18 at twilight rate.

    We solved all those problems at our local golf course - in an easy and practical way:
    On the key ring for the cart key, we added a key for the cart barn. There we have numbered the place for each cart and over each space, we placed instructions of how to correctly connect the chargers.
    Really is quite simple, isn't it?

    You're more trusting than the rest of us and I can see an insurance company having an issue with it.

    Posted:
  • FergusonFerguson Members  5954WRX Points: 3,428Handicap: 7.0Posts: 5,954 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Hot Rod 71 said:

    On -, @Oz Max said:

    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    On -, @Oz Max said:

    On -, @chrisokeefe12 said:

    I just played at a course in Northern Michigan and our tee time was 5:30 twilight and I thought we could get 18 in. We made the back 9 by 7:30 and we got kicked off the course. It was such B.S.

    Did you pay Twilight fee or full 18 holes fee?
    Edit: I see you paid Twilight fee, can't see why you're complaining

    Well we still had another hour and a half if not 2 hours of daylight left and they wouldn't even let us turn in the cart and walk and the back.

    I hear you, we have a course that closes at 7pm in summer regardless of sunset. But that's why twilight fee exists, so you don't feel too bad about not finishing your round.

    A large percentage of players do not understand the "twilight" rate. They think it entitles them to 18 holes of golf, no matter what time they start or what time it gets dark.

    A few years back a guy came in the shop around 5:30. It was getting dark around 7:30 at this time. He said "I want to play 18 holes". I said "okay, can you play 18 holes is 2 hours?" He said "2 hours?? Why 2 hours?? Its not going to be dark for another 3.5 to 4 hours!". I pulled up the weather app on my phone and showed him sunset time, which was 7:20. He said "when did it start getting dark so early??" Huh?

    Posted:
  • GSDriverGSDriver Members  1035WRX Points: 245Handicap: 4Posts: 1,035 Platinum Tees
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    If you don't like the course's policy, play elsewhere. Lots of reasons to have carts in by whenever. Not to mention, though I'm going to, the course employees might like to have a life outside of work and be able to return to their homes/lives/wives etc. at a predictable time.

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    On -, @Ferguson said:

    On -, @Hot Rod 71 said:

    A few years back a guy came in the shop around 5:30. It was getting dark around 7:30 at this time. He said "I want to play 18 holes". I said "okay, can you play 18 holes is 2 hours?" He said "2 hours?? Why 2 hours?? Its not going to be dark for another 3.5 to 4 hours!". I pulled up the weather app on my phone and showed him sunset time, which was 7:20. He said "when did it start getting dark so early??" Huh?

    Just the other day my ball clipped a dinky little 40-foot pine tree on the corner of a dogleg. I asked the guys with me, "When did they plant that **** thing there?".

    Posted:
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  • Twism86Twism86 Members  548WRX Points: 124Posts: 548 Golden Tee
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    As long as they give you a solid time and allow you to keep playing until dark, this is completely acceptable. I hate the "carts due at dusk" ambiguous kind of timing.

    Honestly, everyone has a home get back to, dinner to cook, family to see, etc. No need for people to work up until dark to collect a few carts. Also, golf is a walking sport so just buy a push cart and dont worry about carts. I play a lot of evening golf and finish my round well after all the staff last left and locked up the carts and clubhouse and its never an issue with your own push cart.

    Posted:
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  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members, ClubWRX  10668WRX Points: 3,783Handicap: 8Posts: 10,668 ClubWRX
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    On -, @cardoustie said:

    I cannot believe people are supporting the course
    Here in Canada we have a 7 month season max. We pay the same rates as 12 month members in the USA. Big bucks IMO
    If I want to play till 9:30pm then the course can pay to have one employee stay ($15/hr) to put the last carts away. Have the back shop kids clean the four straggler carts the next morning if need be
    It's a SERVICE industry for crying out loud
    Mgmt is always trying to save a few bucks at the expense of members, nickel and diming sends members elsewhere

    I think a more tempered and understanding approach is needed. To me, and I live in an area with a short golf season as well, 8 PM seems a reasonable time to ask for the carts to be back. I am sure that it is a guideline and not a hard shut off. I mean what are they going to do? Have a 15 year old kid yell at you for getting back at 8:15? Doubtful. Courses have to weed out those that take advantage of things like this. Plus, typically the cart barn is full of part time kids that may be coming to work at 2 or 3 or 4 and getting in 5 or less hours. The pro shop guy is probably full time and wants to go home to a family. You can't leave those kids unattended so you try to close everything up so everyone goes home at the same time.

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  • bigred90gtbigred90gt Lefty Boomers  4953WRX Points: 726Posts: 4,953 Titanium Tees
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    At my former home club, we quite often played until it was too dark to see the ball. They did not have any specific regulations regarding when to have the carts back, but if you cant see the ball you cant really play. We knew the course owners, and at one time, I even had a key to the gate at the course.

    The course we now consider our home course has a "carts in by 7:30" rule. We usually tee off at 3:00-3:30 and are typically pulling out of the parking lot by 6:00ish, so it's not typically a problem. The times we have pushed it a little past due to slow groups on the course, they never said anything and we apologized for having it out past time.

    Posted:
  • FergusonFerguson Members  5954WRX Points: 3,428Handicap: 7.0Posts: 5,954 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @North Butte said:

    On -, @Ferguson said:

    On -, @Hot Rod 71 said:

    A few years back a guy came in the shop around 5:30. It was getting dark around 7:30 at this time. He said "I want to play 18 holes". I said "okay, can you play 18 holes is 2 hours?" He said "2 hours?? Why 2 hours?? Its not going to be dark for another 3.5 to 4 hours!". I pulled up the weather app on my phone and showed him sunset time, which was 7:20. He said "when did it start getting dark so early??" Huh?

    Just the other day my ball clipped a dinky little 40-foot pine tree on the corner of a dogleg. I asked the guys with me, "When did they plant that **** thing there?".

    We have a 120 year Oak on a short dogleg at our club - causes me stress.

    That tree is responsible for my ongoing boycott of Arbor Day.

    Posted:
  • umassgolferumassgolfer Members  860WRX Points: 186Posts: 860 Golden Tee
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    On -, @GSDriver said:

    If you don't like the course's policy, play elsewhere. Lots of reasons to have carts in by whenever.

    Agree. But doesn't mean I can't be bummed when an otherwise good course is removed from consideration set because I won't get to play when daylight may still permit me to.

    On -, @GSDriver said:

    the course employees might like to have a life outside of work and be able to return to their homes/lives/wives etc. at a predictable time.

    Hard disagree. If you are in a service industry and your hours are until dark, you work until dark. I did it for years and still maintained a life. Actually, our hours were typically until an hour past sunset to get everything closed out for the day and prepped for the next. Sometimes we got to leave early.

    Posted:
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  • bigdanebigdane Mr. Kristianstad, SwedenMembers  78WRX Points: 117Handicap: 8Posts: 78 Fairways
    Joined:  #268

    On -, @Loki said:

    On -, @bigdane said:

    On -, @jerebear21 said:

    at our club and most private clubs we can play till the dusk of dawn and the cart folks would still have to wait but do you really want to be that guy holding up the entire crew because you're trying to get in one more hole to post a score that wouldn't matter since you playing alone?

    growing the game should mean a permanent ban on carts. Especially those 6pm cart folks who wants to squeeze in all 18 at twilight rate.

    We solved all those problems at our local golf course - in an easy and practical way:
    On the key ring for the cart key, we added a key for the cart barn. There we have numbered the place for each cart and over each space, we placed instructions of how to correctly connect the chargers.
    Really is quite simple, isn't it?

    You're more trusting than the rest of us and I can see an insurance company having an issue with it.

    A matter of fact is, that we never had anything stolen from neither the club owned carts nor the privately owned carts, which are parked in the same area.
    Trusting? Yeah, club members and guests (with some overseeing ;) ) - Outsiders - forget it. But we are a small, private club, and everybody knows - and plays - with everybody.

    Posted:
  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members  2502WRX Points: 985Posts: 2,502 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #269

    On -, @QuigleyDU said:

    The pro shop guy is probably full time and wants to go home to a family. You can't leave those kids unattended so you try to close everything up so everyone goes home at the same time.

    Eh, read back through the thread and there were folks saying do just that.

    For the record, I agree. If I had a kid out working at a course I would expect for him to be supervised by an adult. Not so much because I don't trust my kid but because I generally don't trust drunk golfers.

    Plus, way too much liability for the course as well.

    Posted:
  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members, ClubWRX  10668WRX Points: 3,783Handicap: 8Posts: 10,668 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #270

    On -, @smashdn said:

    On -, @QuigleyDU said:

    The pro shop guy is probably full time and wants to go home to a family. You can't leave those kids unattended so you try to close everything up so everyone goes home at the same time.

    Eh, read back through the thread and there were folks saying do just that.

    For the record, I agree. If I had a kid out working at a course I would expect for him to be supervised by an adult. Not so much because I don't trust my kid but because I generally don't trust drunk golfers.

    Plus, way too much liability for the course as well.

    There were too many post to read. There are always duplicate ideas in these threads. Glad to know great minds think alike.

    Posted:
    Driver: Taylormade SIM 10.5 KBS TD 70TX
    3 iron Cobra King Utility Aldila Rouge 90 X flex
    4-PW Cobra king forged CB KBS $ Taper 130 X flex
    WEDGES; CLEVELAND RTX4: 49 and 64
    WEDGES: Titleist SM7 54 and 60 KBS tour custom matte black shafts.
    PUTTER; Kronos release long neck
    BALL; 2019 ProV1 yellow/Snell MTB-X yellow
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • stryperstryper Members  3469WRX Points: 973Posts: 3,469 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #271

    On -, @Loki said:

    On -, @bigdane said:

    On -, @jerebear21 said:

    at our club and most private clubs we can play till the dusk of dawn and the cart folks would still have to wait but do you really want to be that guy holding up the entire crew because you're trying to get in one more hole to post a score that wouldn't matter since you playing alone?

    growing the game should mean a permanent ban on carts. Especially those 6pm cart folks who wants to squeeze in all 18 at twilight rate.

    We solved all those problems at our local golf course - in an easy and practical way:
    On the key ring for the cart key, we added a key for the cart barn. There we have numbered the place for each cart and over each space, we placed instructions of how to correctly connect the chargers.
    Really is quite simple, isn't it?

    You're more trusting than the rest of us and I can see an insurance company having an issue with it.

    Yeah, complete no on that one.

    Posted:
    Titleist 917D2, w/UST Mamiya Elements Chrome 7F4T
    Titleist 915Fd, w/Aldila Rogue Black 80-2.8-S
    18* KZG U Iron, w/UST Proforce V2 100-S
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC Fli-Hi 4-5, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Mizuno MP-18 MMC 6-P, w/UST Recoil 95 F4
    Callaway 52* MD5 JAWS S Grind
    Callaway 58* PM Grind 19
    T.P. Mills Professional Series Klassic/Odyssey O Works Tank #7
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