IMG Junior Worlds

Anyone playing next week? For those who have played in the past, any thoughts or advice?

Seems like a very strong field.

TIA

We’re going for the first time. It’s a world event so the field is probably one of the strongest.

We are passing. First time we played as an 8 yo. Kinda tough playing 18 holes for 3 days but at least we could ride. Was in contention after two days and then totally ran out of gas the third. Id recommend it. Just know you basically need to take a week off work.

Enjoyed the event, last time (9-10’s). Tough conditions in 100 degree heat. They took Carlton Oaks off the list, this year, though. Might have been too far inland.

Played with four kids who finished in the top 30, so, got to assess strengths/areas of opportunity. Lots of good international competitors.

San Diego is a vacation destination, but, the week is golf dominated, so, it was a little tough to do family outings.

It is definitely an earned trip.

Looking forward to it!

Good Luck to everyone playing.

> @propredicr said:

> Enjoyed the event, last time (9-10’s). Tough conditions in 100 degree heat. They took Carlton Oaks off the list, this year, though. Might have been too far inland.

They've replaced Carlton Oaks with a much better course in Shadowridge for the 9-10. A wonderful private course that's in great condition. It's got a lot more elevation change than Carlton, so will likely play a little tougher.

We're gearing up for it and looking forward to completing.

Is Bernardo Heights in good condition right now? Was in pretty rough shape this past winter. I know Torrey South is under renovation, but I'm surprised to see the girls 15-18 not playing Torrey North at all.

How did everyone do on the 1st day?

> @Kcct82 said:

> How did everyone do on the 1st day?

Pretty typical year at IMG. International kids are leading the younger divisions, around the 11-12 division there are more US competitors leading and then on up you start to see more and more US kids atop the leaderboard.

> @leezer99 said:

> > @Kcct82 said:

> > How did everyone do on the 1st day?

>

> Pretty typical year at IMG. International kids are leading the younger divisions, around the 11-12 division there are more US competitors leading and then on up you start to see more and more US kids atop the leaderboard.

Sometimes you have wonder how old those younger kids really are from other countries. It very common to fake ages in some countries for sports.

> @Kcct82 said:

> How did everyone do on the 1st day?

Terrible start, great back 9. The greens are among the worst we've ever seen (severely damaged).

Overall, enjoying San Diego, having fun and learning a lot from seeing the high level of competition as well as having to travel and compete (and all the preparation and stress involved with doing so). Great experience.

> @JuniorGolfParent said:

> > @Kcct82 said:

> > How did everyone do on the 1st day?

>

> Terrible start, great back 9. The greens are among the worst we've ever seen (severely damaged).

>

> Overall, enjoying San Diego, having fun and learning a lot from seeing the high level of competition as well as having to travel and compete (and all the preparation and stress involved with doing so). Great experience.

What course are you guys on?

Stood on one par 3 and watch 15 boys play the 140 yard hole. Only one boy flew the green. Most were sticking it 5-15 feet from the pin, which was on a slope, behind a bunker. These juniors are very good. My kid got to “play” with an international. Kid was a machine and sits at the top of the leaderboard in the red.

> @propredicr said:

> Stood on one par 3 and watch 15 boys play the 140 yard hole. Only one boy flew the green. Most were sticking it 5-15 feet from the pin, which was on a slope, behind a bunker. These juniors are very good. My kid got to “play” with an international. Kid was a machine and sits at the top of the leaderboard in the red.

What age group if you don't mind me asking.

11-14y.o.?

As a parent of American kids based in Asia, my explanation for why the lower age leaderboards are filled with international kids is simply that "international" kids are encouraged/forced into early specialization.

Whilst American and say Australian kids (two of the places I've lived) are still trying to find their passion in life, Asian kids are being encouraged and forced into regimented practice and situations that I've had to continually bite my tongue about.

My kid won a under 12 national title here when he was 9 on a 6000+ yard course. Yes you all read that right. The pressure from the golf course and golf federation came down so heavy that my kid right now plays basketball to escape the berating for bad scores etc. Doesn't want to play golf unless he gets back to the US. Doesn't want to have to clock in and out for practice like he's a coal miner anymore.

The stories I could tell...

> @leezer99 said:

> > @JuniorGolfParent said:

> > > @Kcct82 said:

> > > How did everyone do on the 1st day?

> >

> > Terrible start, great back 9. The greens are among the worst we've ever seen (severely damaged).

> >

> > Overall, enjoying San Diego, having fun and learning a lot from seeing the high level of competition as well as having to travel and compete (and all the preparation and stress involved with doing so). Great experience.

>

> What course are you guys on?

My guess would be Morgan Run. Boys 11-12. Heard their greens are toast and they're bleeding members. Something to do with a new super and issues with brackish water.

> @Tugu said:

> As a parent of American kids based in Asia, my explanation for why the lower age leaderboards are filled with international kids is simply that "international" kids are encouraged/forced into early specialization.

>

> Whilst American and say Australian kids (two of the places I've lived) are still trying to find their passion in life, Asian kids are being encouraged and forced into regimented practice and situations that I've had to continually bite my tongue about.

>

> My kid won a under 12 national title here when he was 9 on a 6000+ yard course. Yes you all read that right. The pressure from the golf course and golf federation came down so heavy that my kid right now plays basketball to escape the berating for bad scores etc. Doesn't want to play golf unless he gets back to the US. Doesn't want to have to clock in and out for practice like he's a coal miner anymore.

>

> The stories I could tell...

Americans are just as dedicated as anyone in Asia if not more. Anyone who says kids aren’t have no clue what they are talking about. Kids travel to America to the best completions because the kids are the best in the world and generally live here.

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @Tugu said:

> > As a parent of American kids based in Asia, my explanation for why the lower age leaderboards are filled with international kids is simply that "international" kids are encouraged/forced into early specialization.

> >

> > Whilst American and say Australian kids (two of the places I've lived) are still trying to find their passion in life, Asian kids are being encouraged and forced into regimented practice and situations that I've had to continually bite my tongue about.

> >

> > My kid won a under 12 national title here when he was 9 on a 6000+ yard course. Yes you all read that right. The pressure from the golf course and golf federation came down so heavy that my kid right now plays basketball to escape the berating for bad scores etc. Doesn't want to play golf unless he gets back to the US. Doesn't want to have to clock in and out for practice like he's a coal miner anymore.

> >

> > The stories I could tell...

>

> Americans are just as dedicated as anyone in Asia if not more. Anyone who says kids aren’t have no clue what they are talking about. Kids travel to America to the best completions because the kids are the best in the world and generally live here.

Tiger I would disagree. If Americans are as dedicated as other nations, why is the women’s tour dominated by Asians. The answer is they work harder than us. Go back and read what Tugu said and you can’t tell me that is happening in the USA. We aren’t identifying kids at a young age and putting them in specific sports funded by a national program. Can you imagine if we put kids through tests in school to determine what sport they were best at and forced them

to focus on that area. Have them go to a national team where things are funded by they grind on you like Tugu said. That isn’t happening here or the Asians wouldn’t be dominating the women’s tour. They out work us brother. I teach school for a living and kids from other countries will flat tell you that Americans are seen as lazy and entitled.

A big part of why fewer Americans are dominating the LPGA Tour is money IMO. Many intelligent young female golfers have better or equal opportunities outside of golf without the sacrifices that professional golf requires. I also think it’s a big reason why we see players be dominant for a few years and then retire or fall off form wise. The sacrifices required are big and generally much bigger for women than men. There’s a reason you don’t see the same dominance in the men’s game.

m2c, fwiw, as an Asian dad who's raising kids in a very heavily Asian populated part of NorCal... Asians are very tactical in how they approach extracurriculars. I'll stereotype a bit and say that we will target activities that one can excel at without extreme physical gifts (i.e. size, speed, strength) but can often climb pretty high through sheer repetition and willpower. Basically, many have realized that it's no longer enough to compete for college on the basis of grades and musical instruments, because the schools will look to sports as a filter for more "normal" kids. So then it becomes an optimization exercise of finding the right sports to target, which is why women's golf (yes it helps to be big, but I imagine it's crucial to have good technique and form that is honed through endless practice), volleyball (apparently there is a position (setter?) that wears a special jersey that doesn't require you to play the front line where height matters, and swimming (yes, over time, length matters, but for many years, it is simply a factor endless laps to perfect technique and endurance) have all become so popular.

As a secondary point, I would theorize that we see less Asian male golfers because here, size / strength matter much more and unfortunately, very few Asians are blessed in those areas!

I say all this as an Asian dad who was raised in extreme Tiger conditions who is now trying to find a more balanced approach to raising kids. It's not always easy and there will always be a part of me that wants to berate my kids for anything less than perfection, but I have to say, working on golf with my 8 year old has taught me a lot and I feel I will be better for it. Sorry for topic drift, but this is all something I've been super interested in while raising two sons and hopefully these perspectives are interesting.

Boys 9-10 greens are no joke. Amazed that a kid from China is shooting 11 under after two days while the USKG champion is even. I would say it’s playing at least 5-6 strokes harder than Pinehurst 1 last year.

Top girl in 6 and under division is beating the boy’s 6 and under which is quite unusual in Junior World’s history. She’s also 16 strokes ahead of 2nd place. I heard this girl from China has only been playing a year... If she plays well again tomorrow she’ll break the girl’s all time record.

> @Kcct82 said:

> Top girl in 6 and under division is beating the boy’s 6 and under which is quite unusual in Junior World’s history. She’s also 16 strokes ahead of 2nd place. I heard this girl from China has only been playing a year... If she plays well again tomorrow she’ll break the girl’s all time record.

Looking at the scores you really have to question what is going on in the younger groups. My guess is were not seeing wonder kids but much older kids playing against younger kids.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/bone-analysis-shows-20-of-chinese-athletes-lied-about-age-1.858468

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @Kcct82 said:

> > Top girl in 6 and under division is beating the boy’s 6 and under which is quite unusual in Junior World’s history. She’s also 16 strokes ahead of 2nd place. I heard this girl from China has only been playing a year... If she plays well again tomorrow she’ll break the girl’s all time record.

>

> Looking at the scores you really have to question what is going on in the younger groups. My guess is were not seeing wonder kids but much older kids playing against younger kids.

>

> https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/bone-analysis-shows-20-of-chinese-athletes-lied-about-age-1.858468

There is always the concern that kids

outside the USA might not have accurate birth certificates. This has been proven time and time again in baseball and I’m sure it’s happening in golf. It has been detailed

above by parents of Asian players why they are so good. They are practicing non-stop and criticized harshly for poor performances. In the USA we aren’t pushing kids the way they do in Asian societies. Sure there are some extreme parents here like that but it’s not the norm. There is a negative to doing all this and you see it with the high burnout rate with kids that go through high pressure situations like this. I-teach also outlined the fact that many girls here choose not to go the LPGA route simply because the money isn’t that great as a whole. Sports are treated differently here than in other countries and you just have to put that into perspective.

For anybody attending, how many kids in each age group have their own Trackman on the range?

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @Tugu said:

> > As a parent of American kids based in Asia, my explanation for why the lower age leaderboards are filled with international kids is simply that "international" kids are encouraged/forced into early specialization.

> >

> > Whilst American and say Australian kids (two of the places I've lived) are still trying to find their passion in life, Asian kids are being encouraged and forced into regimented practice and situations that I've had to continually bite my tongue about.

> >

> > My kid won a under 12 national title here when he was 9 on a 6000+ yard course. Yes you all read that right. The pressure from the golf course and golf federation came down so heavy that my kid right now plays basketball to escape the berating for bad scores etc. Doesn't want to play golf unless he gets back to the US. Doesn't want to have to clock in and out for practice like he's a coal miner anymore.

> >

> > The stories I could tell...

>

> Americans are just as dedicated as anyone in Asia if not more. Anyone who says kids aren’t have no clue what they are talking about. Kids travel to America to the best completions because the kids are the best in the world and generally live here.

The young Asian kids (between 6-8) AND parents are definitely more dedicated than their US counterparts in general. I’ve been talking to some of the parents here. The top Asian kids train a few hours a day everyday. The number one 6 year old from Japan is 45” tall and his dad lets him use TS3 irons and cut down adult wedges. The Thai kid in the lead right now got to San Diego 2 weeks ago to play 2 rounds (36 holes) everyday up until tournament time. I see everyone warming up in the morning, but after the round there are only Asian kids left on the range/putting green. By American standard that’s almost child abuse. Heck, even I have received numerous sarcastic comments here on this forum for “going to far” with my kid.

> @wildcatden said:

> For anybody attending, how many kids in each age group have their own Trackman on the range?

No but one kid in the 9-10 division flew in his coach from another state.

So now that it's over what are the insights from those that attended?

Great experience playing with great kids. Week went by, way too fast. Said he had a great time and had fun!

The separation between the top 5 and the rest is apparent, but, they are a different animal, right now.

Just like anywhere else, it’s fairways and proximity to the hole, especially on spotty greens. Greens got better at end of three days.

The the second day, my kid hit 15/18 greens, but, missing putts by 1-2” short. He was able to see where the opportunities lie, but, in no way did he feel outclassed.

The best was that I was able to capture South #9 (his 18) from tee box to his ball flying in and sticking the green. All the boys were around the pin. Then, I got the video of him stepping up and draining the 12 footer to finish with birdie?. Priceless!

Well worth the time, and money spent to get here. Weather was great, 60-70’s, lots to do in San Diego and LA. Highly recommend! Want to make this a yearly event??