Is playing a course (well) for the first time a developed skill?

Being familiar with a course can obviously help improve scores, making practice rounds crucial before tournaments.

But can you develop the ability to play a course for the first time ("sight-playing"?) well?

I'd say no. If the kid has skill then he/she can play pretty much anywhere. I don't think it is anyone's goal to score well solely on courses sight unseen. Maybe I'm wrong.

There's a lot of strategy involved when playing a course for a first time. Obviously before you even start note green speeds on the practice green, and check out rough length around the 18th green. Play to the middle of the fairways and greens, and play the hole backyard in terms of yardage. I like have certain clubs in my hands approaching a green, and I base my tee shot so I can have those clubs in. Mostly applies to par 5's and shorter par 4's. I always use my range finder to find distances to the hazards and middle of the fairways to pick out landing spots. If I can clearly see a safe spot at 230y out, I'll hit that and rely on a slightly longer iron approach, rather than immediately just grab a driver. Hit the middle of the greens and rely on good putting. Play angles into greens, and note location of visible green side bunkers. Out here you do also have to note the grass. Kikuyu grass is notoriously sticky around the greens and don't let you bounce the ball onto the green. Bermuda is far more forgiving in that regard.

Personally, I think adaptability is absolutely a skill a golfer can learn and develop. The ability to adapt to a course after a few holes, specifically the greens and consistencies of the fairway, bunkers, and rough, is a skill. Just my opinion.

> @kekoa said:

> I'd say no. If the kid has skill then he/she can play pretty much anywhere. I don't think it is anyone's goal to score well solely on courses sight unseen. Maybe I'm wrong.

1992 - 2013 Phil would disagree with you. Have you seen his Open Championship results, he has more MC's than top 10's.

One of the guys in our group aims at the 150 yard marker off the tee if visible. He aims at the middle of the green on his second shots. That has served him well over many years.

I watched a local event last year where some of the hot shots from Boca came over and played a two day event. These boys were all 13-14 YO, never seen the course which is long and has water every single hole. Not sure the yardage but they didnt play it short. They lit it up. Smoked it. at least 6 of them were in the 60s. It must be nice to know exactly what is gonna happen to the ball every time you take the club back. I have no idea what that must feel like.

It can be easier to see the correct shot on new courses, you don't have a data base of bad shots to dwell on. None of the "don't go there, can't hit it here" type stuff, just looking for the most obvious place to hit it.

Playing a new course is usually being able to adapt to green speeds.

Years ago this was not possible but today anyone can get a satellite image of the course and know exact yardages. So even when you do not get a chance to play the course you can actually get a good idea without even stepping foot. I even have access to GIS data so for almost any course you can see how the greens are laid out.

Really the only thing a practice round helps with us current condition of the course and how it been maintained since the images were made. Even then a quick drive through the course the day before can help.

Assuming you use the technology available. At the end of the day your really talking about speed of greens, overgrowth of vegetation and erosion and how the rough is maintained.

So yes a small effect on score if you never seen the course but based on most juniors skills is not going to be a huge factor if they can’t get a practice round in. I would also say with the amount a travel and different course a competitive kid has to play it essential that they can preplan and execute without a practice round.

> @tiger1873 said:

> Years ago this was not possible but today anyone can get a satellite image of the course and know exact yardages. So even when you do not get a chance to play the course you can actually get a good idea without even stepping foot. I even have access to GIS data so for almost any course you can see how the greens are laid out.

>

> Really the only thing a practice round helps with us current condition of the course and how it been maintained since the images were made. Even then a quick drive through the course the day before can help.

>

> Assuming you use the technology available. At the end of the day your really talking about speed of greens, overgrowth of vegetation and erosion and how the rough is maintained.

>

> So yes a small effect on score if you never seen the course but based on most juniors skills is not going to be a huge factor if they can’t get a practice round in. I would also say with the amount a travel and different course a competitive kid has to play it essential that they can preplan and execute without a practice round.

>

>

Having a satellite image doesn’t tell how the course plays. If you aren’t playing practice rounds, you are losing strokes no matter what level.

> @heavy_hitter said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > Years ago this was not possible but today anyone can get a satellite image of the course and know exact yardages. So even when you do not get a chance to play the course you can actually get a good idea without even stepping foot. I even have access to GIS data so for almost any course you can see how the greens are laid out.

> >

> > Really the only thing a practice round helps with us current condition of the course and how it been maintained since the images were made. Even then a quick drive through the course the day before can help.

> >

> > Assuming you use the technology available. At the end of the day your really talking about speed of greens, overgrowth of vegetation and erosion and how the rough is maintained.

> >

> > So yes a small effect on score if you never seen the course but based on most juniors skills is not going to be a huge factor if they can’t get a practice round in. I would also say with the amount a travel and different course a competitive kid has to play it essential that they can preplan and execute without a practice round.

> >

> >

>

> Having a satellite image doesn’t tell how the course plays. If you aren’t playing practice rounds, you are losing strokes no matter what level.

>

>

I didn’t say do not do a practice round. The information you can get on the course though without stepping foot is mind boggling if you know where to look. Overlay GIS data on a satellite map and you already know more about that course then someone who only played just a practice round. Ideally you should have this data prior to a practice round.

If you are accurate with your yardage the most a practice round will save is only a few stroke a good player might score 70 instead of a 67 or 68. Over a 2 or 3 tournament probably statistically insignificant.

> @tiger1873 said:

> If you are accurate with your yardage the most a practice round will save is only a few stroke a good player might score 70 instead of a 67 or 68. Over a 2 or 3 tournament probably statistically insignificant.

>

That’s hilarious.

So you’re just not interested in saving 2-3 strokes per tournament, because that’s not really very helpful?

> @BertGA said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > If you are accurate with your yardage the most a practice round will save is only a few stroke a good player might score 70 instead of a 67 or 68. Over a 2 or 3 tournament probably statistically insignificant.

> >

> That’s hilarious.

>

> So you’re just not interested in saving 2-3 strokes per tournament, because that’s not really very helpful?

>

No I am saying 2-3 stokes is not a big difference when you factor in most juniors and their expected scores. Doing a practice round is great but if you can’t do it your not going blow up your score either. The kid that blows a round up would almost certainly would have anyways and doing a practice round has nothing to do with it.

A really good kid would also probably still beat the rest of field in 95% of the junior tournaments out there. If we are talking the biggest tournaments everyone usually takes the time to do a practice round.

If you do a lot tournaments and travel there comes a time where you simply do not have time to do a practice round for every tournament you will play. You have to pick and choose so the less important ones have to be skipped. So yes doing tournaments without doing a practice round is a skill you do need if you want to compete at a high level.

What is hilarious is when kids do multiple practice round for a low key local US kids one day tournament. You don’t need to do that.

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @BertGA said:

> > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > If you are accurate with your yardage the most a practice round will save is only a few stroke a good player might score 70 instead of a 67 or 68. Over a 2 or 3 tournament probably statistically insignificant.

> > >

> > That’s hilarious.

> >

> > So you’re just not interested in saving 2-3 strokes per tournament, because that’s not really very helpful?

> >

> No I am saying 2-3 stokes is not a big difference when you factor in most juniors and their expected scores. Doing a practice round is great but if you can’t do it your not going blow up your score either. The kid that blows a round up would almost certainly would have anyways and doing a practice round has nothing to do with it.

>

> A really good kid would also probably still beat the rest of field in 95% of the junior tournaments out there. If we are talking the biggest tournaments everyone usually takes the time to do a practice round.

>

> If you do a lot tournaments and travel there comes a time where you simply do not have time to do a practice round for every tournament you will play. You have to pick and choose so the less important ones have to be skipped. So yes doing tournaments without doing a practice round is a skill you do need if you want to compete at a high level.

>

> What is hilarious is when kids do multiple practice round for a low key local US kids one day tournament. You don’t need to do that.

>

The junior you are describing won’t likely get any benefit out of seeing a satellite image of a course, either.

> @BertGA said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > > @BertGA said:

> > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > If you are accurate with your yardage the most a practice round will save is only a few stroke a good player might score 70 instead of a 67 or 68. Over a 2 or 3 tournament probably statistically insignificant.

> > > >

> > > That’s hilarious.

> > >

> > > So you’re just not interested in saving 2-3 strokes per tournament, because that’s not really very helpful?

> > >

> > No I am saying 2-3 stokes is not a big difference when you factor in most juniors and their expected scores. Doing a practice round is great but if you can’t do it your not going blow up your score either. The kid that blows a round up would almost certainly would have anyways and doing a practice round has nothing to do with it.

> >

> > A really good kid would also probably still beat the rest of field in 95% of the junior tournaments out there. If we are talking the biggest tournaments everyone usually takes the time to do a practice round.

> >

> > If you do a lot tournaments and travel there comes a time where you simply do not have time to do a practice round for every tournament you will play. You have to pick and choose so the less important ones have to be skipped. So yes doing tournaments without doing a practice round is a skill you do need if you want to compete at a high level.

> >

> > What is hilarious is when kids do multiple practice round for a low key local US kids one day tournament. You don’t need to do that.

> >

>

> The junior you are describing won’t likely get any benefit out of seeing a satellite image of a course, either.

Satellite images and other course info such as gps apps are essential to virtually tour the course and plan for any tournament. There is no excuse players don’t already have a plan before they even step foot on a course. No reason not to do it.

Images don’t matter If your playing a 9 hole 1500 yard us kids events in that case not much planning is needed unless you are a control freak. Those you just show up and hope the kid has a good day.

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @BertGA said:

> > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > If you are accurate with your yardage the most a practice round will save is only a few stroke a good player might score 70 instead of a 67 or 68. Over a 2 or 3 tournament probably statistically insignificant.

> > >

> > That’s hilarious.

> >

> > So you’re just not interested in saving 2-3 strokes per tournament, because that’s not really very helpful?

> >

> No I am saying 2-3 stokes is not a big difference when you factor in most juniors and their expected scores. Doing a practice round is great but if you can’t do it your not going blow up your score either. The kid that blows a round up would almost certainly would have anyways and doing a practice round has nothing to do with it.

>

> A really good kid would also probably still beat the rest of field in 95% of the junior tournaments out there. If we are talking the biggest tournaments everyone usually takes the time to do a practice round.

>

> If you do a lot tournaments and travel there comes a time where you simply do not have time to do a practice round for every tournament you will play. You have to pick and choose so the less important ones have to be skipped. So yes doing tournaments without doing a practice round is a skill you do need if you want to compete at a high level.

>

> What is hilarious is when kids do multiple practice round for a low key local US kids one day tournament. You don’t need to do that.

>

You are a total buffoon. 2-3 strokes per round, which you deem as insignificant, is the difference between the #1 golfer in the world and a fledgling Mackenzie Tour player. It’s the difference between Matthew Wolf and Jack Gnam (look him up). It’s the difference between Akshay Bhatia and Sihan Sandhu (look him up). You are foolish.

> @"Pinewood Golfer" said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > > @BertGA said:

> > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > If you are accurate with your yardage the most a practice round will save is only a few stroke a good player might score 70 instead of a 67 or 68. Over a 2 or 3 tournament probably statistically insignificant.

> > > >

> > > That’s hilarious.

> > >

> > > So you’re just not interested in saving 2-3 strokes per tournament, because that’s not really very helpful?

> > >

> > No I am saying 2-3 stokes is not a big difference when you factor in most juniors and their expected scores. Doing a practice round is great but if you can’t do it your not going blow up your score either. The kid that blows a round up would almost certainly would have anyways and doing a practice round has nothing to do with it.

> >

> > A really good kid would also probably still beat the rest of field in 95% of the junior tournaments out there. If we are talking the biggest tournaments everyone usually takes the time to do a practice round.

> >

> > If you do a lot tournaments and travel there comes a time where you simply do not have time to do a practice round for every tournament you will play. You have to pick and choose so the less important ones have to be skipped. So yes doing tournaments without doing a practice round is a skill you do need if you want to compete at a high level.

> >

> > What is hilarious is when kids do multiple practice round for a low key local US kids one day tournament. You don’t need to do that.

> >

>

> You are a total buffoon. 2-3 strokes per round, which you deem as insignificant, is the difference between the #1 golfer in the world and a fledgling Mackenzie Tour player. It’s the difference between Matthew Wolf and Jack Gnam (look him up). It’s the difference between Akshay Bhatia and Sihan Sandhu (look him up). You are foolish.

Some people on this forum are idiots you obviously didn't read the whole thing. EVERYONE DOES PRACTICE ROUNDS IN BIG TOURNAMENTS. AGAIN EVERYONE DOES PRACTICE ROUNDS IN BIG TOURNAMENTS. CAN YOU READ.

Second do you really think a player that can break par that plays big invitational tournaments is not going to win a regional tournament that doesn't bring out the best players. Again this is assuming a lot that they even play it in first place.

As for Akshay Bhatia he could do lots of practice rounds but would still lose to Brooks Kopeka or for that matter most PGA pro's on tour who never seen the course .Practice rounds matter but are not going to effect the score that much unless you have very poor course management skills.

Competitive players have to be able to adapt very quickly. Look at Alex Pano she had only a few hours to practice between BIG tournaments this week. With her schedule it is impossible to practice for every course she plays. She still wins though.

The average junior playing is much worse and they have a lot more issues going on and it nothing to do with never playing a course. Does it help yes it usually does , but if they have a 10 stroke difference they have more issues going on and probably need more course management skills.

Also I am talking about 36 or 54 holes and the risk to what the score should be if you don't do it. We are not talking actual score (there is a big difference). In theory if you have a plan you should score the same.

The difference in score between playing a course cold (no practice round) and having course knowledge should decrease as the skill of the player increases.

Having good course management skills is an underrated and important part of the game.

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @BertGA said:

> > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > If you are accurate with your yardage the most a practice round will save is only a few stroke a good player might score 70 instead of a 67 or 68. Over a 2 or 3 tournament probably statistically insignificant.

> > >

> > That’s hilarious.

> >

> > So you’re just not interested in saving 2-3 strokes per tournament, because that’s not really very helpful?

> >

> No I am saying 2-3 stokes is not a big difference when you factor in most juniors and their expected scores. Doing a practice round is great but if you can’t do it your not going blow up your score either. The kid that blows a round up would almost certainly would have anyways and doing a practice round has nothing to do with it.

I guess you play for 2nd place huh?

To answer the OP's question, "yes".

Playing a strange course for the first time and scoring well depends on one's self-control, ability to note where the designer put landing spots and play to them, have good judgment regarding course management, conditions, determining bail-out areas, and reasonably good green reading skills.

Of course, a variable is whether or not the course was designed with a lot of visual distractions that hide influencing conditions. IMO when I face undeterminable conditions down the fairway or around greens, my default recourse is hit the ball straight down the middle, even short of the green and at all times be more conservative about my decisions versus aggressive.

IMO, the above scenarios are not going to be the answer to winning a one-day match on a strange course. That's when you must reasonably determine when to be conservative and when it's likely safe to be aggressive.

> @kekoa said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > > @BertGA said:

> > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > If you are accurate with your yardage the most a practice round will save is only a few stroke a good player might score 70 instead of a 67 or 68. Over a 2 or 3 tournament probably statistically insignificant.

> > > >

> > > That’s hilarious.

> > >

> > > So you’re just not interested in saving 2-3 strokes per tournament, because that’s not really very helpful?

> > >

> > No I am saying 2-3 stokes is not a big difference when you factor in most juniors and their expected scores. Doing a practice round is great but if you can’t do it your not going blow up your score either. The kid that blows a round up would almost certainly would have anyways and doing a practice round has nothing to do with it.

>

> I guess you play for 2nd place huh?

>

>

I 100% agree with this.

If you are playing in a 2-day tourney and can't play a practice round, don't play the tournament. I believe it is a crucial aspect of playing tournament golf. More so than anything else to get a feel for the greens.

Played in a tournament this past weekend. Kid didn't play well because he didn't putt well. It was played on two different courses. Had he not seen and played both courses, it would have been worse because he struck the ball wonderfully. There were several holes on the course that if you landed any club on the green the ball would be in the back bunkers or the native (trash) areas behind the greens. These holes were built for the number into the green to be the front of the green number at the maximum. In most cases the number was a club less than the front of the green number and the ball funnels to the middle of the green where you would have a 20 ft putt at most. Without this knowledge you just gave strokes to the field. It is also knowledge you won't find from satellite imagery.

This is a skill that eludes even experienced adult golfers.

If you play professionally or in high-level amateur tournaments, a local caddie can help one score better _the first time._

But, it takes most golfers a time or two to play a course so you can "see what you're looking at." It also depends on the difficulty of the course. If it's a fairly benevolent parkland course with modest undulations in the green, it's easier to score better the first time than if it's a championship layout with four _round-wrecker_ holes that grab the unwary.

As an example, let's address the par 3 holes at one course that others and I played for the first time. Everyone was leaving the ball on the front fringe, even with well-struck shots. After the first par 3, I realized that the tee box had a slight upslope angle for drainage. The same upslope for the other par 3 holes. I took an extra club, and was pin high on the remaining holes. The others continued to leave it short. This is something that, as **heavy_hitter** noted, "you won't find from satellite imagery." You just have to experience it.