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How to add Width and be on Plane

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  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 16, 2019 11:07am #182

    I'm not going to let a few people ruin it for everyone.... we all know there are plenty of trolls and keyboard jockeys online. This is my swing and how I make it work for me and I have learned from some of the best in the business so I would rather share it than let a few bad DM's bother me and stop... we are all entitled to our opinions. If it helps you then great and if it doesn't then find a thread that does help you.

    Understand one thing though, I'm a player, not a teacher and all I am doing is sharing how I swing and how Butch and Shawn Callahan have both helped me make my swing work for me. I have seen plenty other ways work for other people, but this is what works for ME.

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • br61br61 3x Hackin' Hall of Shame SW MissouriMembers Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 16, 2019 11:16am #183

    Don't let few trolls get under your skin, they are on every forums anyway. I have enjoyed reading the whole thread and everyone's comments. Keep it up.

    I knew you are discussing that works for you and can help few other guys improve. Heck, we all are always trying to get better in golf! Ha

    I had the original Right Angle and can't find it. I guess I'll buy a new one soon.

    My bag of hacking utensils;

    Titleist TS3 9.5 PX Even Flow White 6.0(45")
    Callaway Epic Flash 9.0 PX Smoke 6.0
    TM Aeroburner TP fw 15*, hybrids 19* & 22*
    MP-18 MMC 4-PW Modus 120 stiff
    TM MG2 Black 52.09 & 58.11 w/Black Modus 115 Wedge
    ancient Odyssey 2Ball Long putter at 44"






  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here a few sequences of Tiger swinging a driver and an iron from back in 1999-2000 when he was working with Butch and making his first major swing change from his 1997 Masters swing.... it got better and better leading into 2000 when had that epic year, but these are from right before that period.

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Adam Scott's swing.... a lot like TW from 2000 and one of the best on the PGA Tour.

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • AtraynAtrayn ClubWRX Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @jc4birdie said:

    @97speedster said:
    The downswing DOES start from the ground up, but it actually starts before the backswing is even completed. It is VERY different than pushing off with the right foot which leads to early extension. On the downswing my weight shifts towards the target while my shoulders stay closed which shallows the club and gets you in the slot and gives you the leverage you need for speed. Weight shift and keeping the right shoulder closed flattens the shaft and creates lag, by the time my left arm gets into the 9 o’clock position on the downswing my arms and hands have been very passive. You want to keep the right shoulder as far away from the ball as you can and for as long as possible on the downswing. This is where power comes from; pushing of the right foot is a weak move that causes many problems with plane and sequence.

    Thanks,& congrats on the gains. Tough at your skill level. One point of confusion though...& I don’t say this argumentatively; I’m genuinely confused on your very important point of emphasis. HOW exactly do you start the shift of weight target-ward from the top of the backswing without the initiator being a push off from the set of the right leg/foot? I’d KILL for 25 yds w/ driver & commensurate gains w/ my irons, like you’ve gotten. I just cannot comprehend the mechanics of the uncoiling from ground-up without the move from the right foot/leg. Can you help me out here, brother? As always, I appreciate your input.

    What I also love most about these two images is that it is about the head position, however I love what the hips and shoulders are doing more to setup where in space the arms/shoulders and head end up. It's the lower body action that is putting everything on plane. The arms are setup for maximum speed.

    "Someday, it may even be possible to construct some kind of machine
    that will swing a golf club as well as it can possibly be done." "That is probably as close to
    the perfect swing as it would be possible for human beings to get." Ben Hogan 1965 SI

    2017 Taylormade M2 9.5 (set at 10.5) w/ Diamana S+ Blueboard 60 S
    2010 Tour Edge Exotics XCG3 3W w/Fujikura Motore S 15 deg
    2014 Taylormade SLDR S HL 3W 17deg Fujikura Speeder 65 R, shortened
    2009 Callaway Xforged 3i w/ KBS tour S
    2012 Cobra Amp Forged 4-GW w/ KBS tour S
    2013 Miura forged 54 & 58 wedges - w/ DG Tour issue S
    Ping Cadence Rustler Traditional putter
  • redraider1685redraider1685 Members Posts: 673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @97speedster said:

    @redraider1685 said:

    Universal truths are rare in golf but I would say having the shoulders open at impact is important

    Universal? You must try to hit a fade and swing left after impact, not release the club down the line like I try to do? I really want to see your release through the ball for myself, so kindly post a video.

    Generally a good player that prefers to fade the ball will be SLIGHTLY open with his shoulders and slightly closed to draw the ball. The key is to match the ball flight preference with the swing plane, shoulder alignment and release that complement one another, but to say it's universal, I wouldn't go that far. In golf, nothing is universal... just look at Dustin Johnson who defies a lot of teaching philosophies. Really good players (I have no idea if you fit this category until you post that video) tend to match their body rotation through impact with their grip; a player with a strong left hand grip will have their shoulders SLIGHTLY open at impact, BUT if the shoulders are TOO open you can't release the club and will wipe it all day long!

    I have very slow hips through the ball so I can't afford to open my shoulders at impact and therefore my belt buckle and shoulders face the ball and my right foot stays on the ground into impact. This used to bother me, but I have had two really good PGA Tour players compliment me on that which I started to realize might be more of a blessing than a curse because too much hip speed makes synchronisation extremely difficult in the golf swing, that is why Tiger is always working on slowing his hips down.... there is an old saying, "if you spin, you will never win."!

    I'm a player, not a teacher and don't pretend to know every method known to mankind, BUT I do know my own swing better than anyone and that is all I'm sharing here, nothing UNIVERSAL about it!

    Sam Snead

    Ben Hogan

    Tiger Woods

    Dustin Johnson

    You must have some thin skin because I am not critiquing your swing at all. If you have a pattern you have developed and it works for you that's all that matters

    Once again I said universal truths are rare in golf

    You can hit draws with your shoulders rotated open, even a push draw at that. Several players do just that and at a high level. Shoulder rotation at impact is an actual measurable data point and the data shows PGA players shoulders at impact are open.

    It's alright to have discussion where we do not agree on every word.

  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 16, 2019 12:44pm #188

    @97speedster said:

    @redraider1685 said:

    Universal truths are rare in golf but I would say having the shoulders open at impact is important

    Universal? You must try to hit a fade and swing left after impact, not release the club down the line like I try to do? I really want to see your release through the ball for myself, so kindly post a video.

    Generally a good player that prefers to fade the ball will be SLIGHTLY open with his shoulders and slightly closed to draw the ball. The key is to match the ball flight preference with the swing plane, shoulder alignment and release that complement one another, but to say it's universal, I wouldn't go that far. In golf, nothing is universal... just look at Dustin Johnson who defies a lot of teaching philosophies. Really good players (I have no idea if you fit this category until you post that video) tend to match their body rotation through impact with their grip; a player with a strong left hand grip will have their shoulders SLIGHTLY open at impact, BUT if the shoulders are TOO open you can't release the club and will wipe it all day long!

    I have very slow hips through the ball so I can't afford to open my shoulders at impact and therefore my belt buckle and shoulders face the ball and my right foot stays on the ground into impact. This used to bother me, but I have had two really good PGA Tour players compliment me on that which I started to realize might be more of a blessing than a curse because too much hip speed makes synchronisation extremely difficult in the golf swing, that is why Tiger is always working on slowing his hips down.... there is an old saying, "if you spin, you will never win."!

    I'm a player, not a teacher and don't pretend to know every method known to mankind, BUT I do know my own swing better than anyone and that is all I'm sharing here, nothing UNIVERSAL about it!

    Sam Snead

    Ben Hogan

    Tiger Woods

    Dustin Johnson

    Go reread what he wrote. He said it’s not universal.

    This guy draws everything while being this open and pound for pound is very long

  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 17, 2019 8:21am #189

    @iteachgolf I never said you couldn’t hit a draw with open shoulders, I said it wasn’t universal, and the players grip, plane and release dictates a lot. All I really need to know or care to talk about is my own swing. There are so many ways to skin a cat, I’m just trying to share how I do it and what works for me. JT pounds it too for a little guy!

    Post edited by 97speedster on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • dodgerdodger Members Posts: 421 ✭✭✭✭

    I think that is Rory. Back to your swing thoughts Speedster, I have been working for a year on releasing my eyes to the target earlier, something you have referenced working on. My issue is it works ok from 8 iron to wedge, but longer clubs resulted in a lot of dropkicks and fat shots. I clearly left my arms and club behind me. With the longer clubs, working on the short, wide and upright seems to merge well with releasing the eyes to the target earlier. Is it just a synching up issue? It feels like it and contact is more consistent.

  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 16, 2019 2:03pm #191

    @redraider1685 thin skin? I thought we were having a discussion, all I said is I want to see your swing? I don’t mean harm by it, I just want to see what you’re talking about and my apologies if I thought you said open shoulders were universal. I try to keep my back to the target for as long as I can on the downswing, but other than that I don’t think about my shoulders at impact. I’m pretty sure when I hit a fade they are slightly open, but I pretty much just visualize a fade and hit it without too much thought.

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • TIM929TIM929 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 16, 2019 2:21pm #192

    @97speedster what are your thoughts on the right wrist angles at impact. Yesterday during my swing lesson, the pro was speaking about 2 things:

    1) a stomach crunch feel with right lateral tilt from the top of the back swing that is caused by or paired with proper rotation of the lower body- I need to practice this a lot.

    2) Right wrist angle at address and impact- he said my right wrist angle had radial deviation at address/ impact causing my to lift my left shoulder early in the down swing, but I should have ulnar deviation in my right wrist angle like I'm trying skip a stone on water. I saw your post above and noticed all the pro's have that in their right wrist as well. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this and if it's something that is important.
    me:

    everyone else:


  • otwotw Doug Ferreri Members Posts: 327 ✭✭✭✭

    @TIM929 said:
    @97speedster what are your thoughts on the right wrist angles at impact. Yesterday during my swing lesson, the pro was speaking about 2 things:

    1) a stomach crunch feel with right lateral tilt from the top of the back swing that is caused by or paired with proper rotation of the lower body- I need to practice this a lot.

    2) Right wrist angle at address and impact- he said my right wrist angle had radial deviation at address/ impact causing my to lift my left shoulder early in the down swing, but I should have ulnar deviation in my right wrist angle like I'm trying skip a stone on water. I saw your post above and noticed all the pro's have that in their right wrist as well. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this and if it's something that is important.
    me:

    everyone else:


    Radial deviation is when the right thumb is angled or pulling to the radial bone. Your hand position is a function of your grip and position at impact. If you are pulling yout rt thumb to your radial bone while swinging at a high speed you are a miracle man.

    "Only the lazy ones fail !" Paul Bertholy, PGA

    www.paulbertholy.com

    www.dougferreri.com
  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    For me, my $.0001, holding the shoulders "closed" in transition has little to do with where they are at impact. It's more a syncing/sequencing key. Loading & releasing them properly has a lot more weight in the outcome of swing. Getting lead down & away from head, getting trail under and closer on proper plane, getting the right side "crunch" or general flexion is monster key that leads to greater over all results.

  • TIM929TIM929 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 16, 2019 2:38pm #195

    @otw said:

    @TIM929 said:
    @97speedster what are your thoughts on the right wrist angles at impact. Yesterday during my swing lesson, the pro was speaking about 2 things:

    1) a stomach crunch feel with right lateral tilt from the top of the back swing that is caused by or paired with proper rotation of the lower body- I need to practice this a lot.

    2) Right wrist angle at address and impact- he said my right wrist angle had radial deviation at address/ impact causing my to lift my left shoulder early in the down swing, but I should have ulnar deviation in my right wrist angle like I'm trying skip a stone on water. I saw your post above and noticed all the pro's have that in their right wrist as well. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this and if it's something that is important.
    me:

    everyone else:


    Radial deviation is when the right thumb is angled or pulling to the radial bone. Your hand position is a function of your grip and position at impact. If you are pulling yout rt thumb to your radial bone while swinging at a high speed you are a miracle man.

    sorry, maybe I'm explaining this wrong. my right wrist should be positioned like I'm holding a pistol while aiming and not pulling a cable when working out?

    not easy to explain lol.

    my SS is not that fast, since the lessons its avg 103 club head speed with driver but others on wrx is crazy high.

  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 16, 2019 2:41pm #196

    @TIM929 my brain doesn’t work like that and I try to stay away from big words 😂 and technical details. Simply put, I set up with the grip pointed at my center/sternum then at impact I compress the ball by having some shaft lean which I work on statically with an impact bag like the Eyeline Impact Cube (7 iron side) or dynamically with the DST Compressor 8 iron, but im not thinking about it when I swing.

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • redraider1685redraider1685 Members Posts: 673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @97speedster said:
    @redraider1685 thin skin? I thought we were having a discussion, all I said is I want to see your swing? I don’t mean harm by it, I just want to see what you’re talking about and my apologies if I thought you said open shoulders were universal. I try to keep my back to the target for as long as I can on the downswing, but other than that I don’t think about my shoulders at impact. I’m pretty sure when I hit a fade they are slightly open, but I pretty much just visualize a fade and hit it without too much thought.

    All good I just chimed in with some different thoughts and all of the sudden the entire thread was edited and changed. I actually fully agree with parts of your post especially maintaining width in the golf swing

    I just do not agree with the back to the target thought. It might work for you but it is not reality for most

  • TIM929TIM929 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @97speedster said:
    @TIM929 my brain doesn’t work like that and I try to stay away from big words 😂 and technical details. Simply put, I set up with the grip pointed at my center/sternum then at impact I compress the ball by having some shaft lean which I work on statically with an impact bag like the Eyeline Impact Cube (7 iron side) or dynamically with the DST Compressor 8 iron, but im not thinking about it when I swing.

    Thank you! I don't even know why I try to use these words lol.

  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @97speedster said:
    @iteachgolf Jason Dufner? Have you played with him? I never said you couldn’t hit a draw with open shoulders, I said it wasn’t universal, and the players grip, plane and release dictates a lot. All I really need to know or care to talk about is my own swing. There are so many ways to skin a cat, I’m just trying to share how I do it and what works for me. I played on the Golden Bear Tour with Dufner and he’s a great ball striker, but pound for pound JT drops mail on him.

    It’s not Dufner. Dufner isn’t close to that open. It’s Rory.

  • elcgolfelcgolf Members Posts: 254 ✭✭✭✭

    Speedster, I’ve been following this thread for a while and love the info. However, I’m still a little confused by the transition keys. Do you feel your arms working down, ala the old golf channel Tiger and Butch video, or do you feel the lower body driving the downswing? Or, do you feel them working together? Any drills outside of working with an impact bag? Thank you!!

  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @iteachgolf that’s one picture though, what type of ball flight was he trying to hit. There are plenty of pictures of him more square than that at impact. What year was that taken?

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @97speedster said:
    @iteachgolf that’s one picture though, what type of ball flight was he trying to hit. There are plenty of pictures of him more square than that at impact. What year was that taken?

    Then you’re looking at poor camera angles. He’s that open on his stock shots. His path was 7-10* right being that open at impact. I’m not basing it on one picture.

  • Redjeep83Redjeep83 Members Posts: 5,423 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    good info speedster, you know a closed shoulder feeling works for you and your swing. This is becoming kind of a learning thread and I think others are saying it's not universal and you've acknowledged that.

    To that point of not being universal, if you look at Adam Scott, he even has the feeling of firing the shoulders to start the downswing. Might not of had that during his Butch years though
    "https://www.golf.com/instruction/adam-scotts-tips-better-setup-and-big-power-boost
    MY SWING THOUGHT
    At the top, I picture my perfect finish position. My only goal on the downswing is to get there.

    You hear a lot about “firing your hips” to start the downswing. I favor “firing your shoulders.” For one, even those with moderate athletic ability will instinctively “fire” the hips—it’s a natural hitting impulse. But when you think of where your upper body needs to be at the finish—with your chest facing left of the target and your right shoulder ahead of your left—the upper body has work to do. So from the top my mantra is “Turn your shoulders, Adam!” And don’t worry about “coming over the top”; a full shoulder turn—rather than simply lifting your arms—takes care of that. Just assertively rotate your upper body through impact and let the ball get in the way. It won’t know what hit it."

    Looking at your swing, you don't have much depth at all with the handle and iteach saw something with the hips, hips looked different to me as well but I'm not really an instructor so keeping your shoulders closed/feeling closed is pretty much needed to not come down steep.

  • redraider1685redraider1685 Members Posts: 673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @97speedster said:
    <@redraider1685

    I just do not agree with the back to the target thought. It might work for you but it is not reality for most.

    Butch is pretty good at what he does and video doesn’t lie, I see the change in my downswing shaft angle. You keep ignoring the video, I really want to see how you do it??

    >

    I'm not talking to butch I am talking to you here is my swing

    That's a 7 iron 95 mph 185 carry

  • BabydaddyBabydaddy Members Posts: 935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Speedster thanks for sharing- I have always said that I will listen to what a really good player believes they do that works for them, but I may not necessarily try to teach it or learn it that way. Width has different meanings in different contexts to different people. Also- people forget that time and width are functionally related.
    I've studied Butch at length- I know people that have spent lots of time with him- My take is that he likes the club to remain available to the player- high handicappers tend to get deep with arms and club-
    As we all know you have to take the player in front of you- the player is the OP- so if it's working for him, that's what matters- that's one thing about Harmon that many of us appreciate- see Gulbis et al.
    I do think width is easily misinterpreted as is wrist cock and I have seen both mess lots of well meaning peeps up.
    Continued success OP

  • jonsnowjonsnow GeorgiaMembers Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @97speedster said:
    Here a few sequences of Tiger swinging a driver and an iron from back in 1999-2000 when he was working with Butch and making his first major swing change from his 1997 Masters swing.... it got better and better leading into 2000 when had that epic year, but these are from right before that period.

    I remember a Golf Digest story & swing sequence from this time period about what Tiger & Butch were working on in his swing. Tiger described his swing as "Wide, tight and ripping!" That description has always stuck with me for some reason.

    WITB:
    Titleist 910D3 9.5
    Titleist 917F2 15
    Titleist 910H 19
    Bridgestone J40 DPC 4-PW
    Vokey SM6 50,54,60
    Cameron Newport 2
    Bridgestone Tour B XS

    Clubs are subject to disciplinary action up to and including termination at any time...
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 16, 2019 9:03pm #208

    @redraider1685 said:

    All good I just chimed in with some different thoughts and all of the sudden the entire thread was edited and changed. I actually fully agree with parts of your post especially maintaining width in the golf swing

    I just do not agree with the back to the target thought. It might work for you but it is not reality for most

    You had nothing to do with it, why you have such thin skin and think it's always about you LOL. Thanks for posting that video, I didn't mean it in a bad way, but when someone is so adamant about something I like to see how they swing. Your shoulders aren't as open as I thought they were going to be though, I think mine might even be more open.... RELAX, it's a joke!

    Don't take this wrong, but why don't you let your left arm fold on the through swing? What's your handicap... honestly? You do a lot of good things, but it seems like you intentionally have grooved a straight left arm on the through swing and I was wondering why.

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • redraider1685redraider1685 Members Posts: 673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My shoulders are not going to be wide open for me after knee surgery and some other limitations I do not have that range of mobility

    I have always keep my left arm pretty straight on the through swing just apart of my swing not sure why
    I play to a +2

  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Members Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @redraider1685 said:
    My shoulders are not going to be wide open for me after knee surgery and some other limitations I do not have that range of mobility

    I have always keep my left arm pretty straight on the through swing just apart of my swing not sure why
    I play to a +2

    Do you generally fade the ball as a stock shot?

    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 6X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue Tour Spec 7X
    Hybrid: Srixon U85 (18 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100 
    Irons: TaylorMade P-760 (4-PW)
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52.12, 58.12),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64.8
    Shaft: KBS TGI 100  +1/2" in 52 & 58; True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400 in 64
    Putter:
    Tour Issue Odyssey White Hot 2-Ball Lined and Filled 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    What makes you think he fades the ball?

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