Double Hit Rules Question - Chipping

 theothertwo ·  
theothertwotheothertwo Members  2665WRX Points: 227Posts: 2,665 Titanium Tees
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Sorry if this is a stupid question. It is my understanding that a wedge double hit has no more penalty under the new rules, this is the situation kind of like TC Chen where after you chip the ball, the club hits the ball a second time. What about at address and beginning of the chip, is there a penalty if you move the ball before you actually hit your shot. Picture a wedge slightly hitting the ball as you start your backswing. ???? Thanks.

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  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members  4975WRX Points: 485Handicap: 3,8Posts: 4,975 Titanium Tees
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    Double hit is no penalty but moving (not just touching) the ball before a stroke is a one stroke penalty, two if you do not replace the ball.

    Posted:
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  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX  25409WRX Points: 2,565Handicap: 2 ManyPosts: 25,409 ClubWRX
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    On -, @theothertwo said:

    Sorry if this is a stupid question. It is my understanding that a wedge double hit has no more penalty under the new rules, this is the situation kind of like TC Chen where after you chip the ball, the club hits the ball a second time. What about at address and beginning of the chip, is there a penalty if you move the ball before you actually hit your shot. Picture a wedge slightly hitting the ball as you start your backswing. ???? Thanks.

    Did your ball actually move and end up in a different place or did you touch it and it returned to the same place?

    Posted:
  • theothertwotheothertwo Members  2665WRX Points: 227Posts: 2,665 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @DavePelz4 said:

    On -, @theothertwo said:

    Sorry if this is a stupid question. It is my understanding that a wedge double hit has no more penalty under the new rules, this is the situation kind of like TC Chen where after you chip the ball, the club hits the ball a second time. What about at address and beginning of the chip, is there a penalty if you move the ball before you actually hit your shot. Picture a wedge slightly hitting the ball as you start your backswing. ???? Thanks.

    Did your ball actually move and end up in a different place or did you touch it and it returned to the same place?

    The ball just wiggled, did not really move to a different spot....

    Posted:

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    Honma TW 727 18* 5 Wood

    Srixon H45 22* Hybrid

    Titleist 818H1 25* Hybrid

    5-PW Honma TW 737V Irons

    56* Honma TW-W Sand Wedge

    50* Honma TW-W Gap Wedge

    Miura KM 005 Putter

  • AugsterAugster Members  4675WRX Points: 574Posts: 4,675 Titanium Tees
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    If it moved, that is changed position, then there is a penalty. You only need to replace on the spot if you can stop your swing.

    If it only oscillated, rocked back and forth but ended up in the same spot, no penalty.

    Moving a ball and hitting a ball are two separate actions. They aren’t covered in the double-hit rule.

    Posted:
  • Colin LColin L Members  2449WRX Points: 400Handicap: 16.5Posts: 2,449 Platinum Tees
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    Erm, how can you hit a ball as you begin your backswing when it is in front of your club?

    Posted:
  • theothertwotheothertwo Members  2665WRX Points: 227Posts: 2,665 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Colin L said:

    Erm, how can you hit a ball as you begin your backswing when it is in front of your club?

    With the waggle, trigger kind of like a forward press when putting.

    Posted:

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    Honma TW 727 18* 5 Wood

    Srixon H45 22* Hybrid

    Titleist 818H1 25* Hybrid

    5-PW Honma TW 737V Irons

    56* Honma TW-W Sand Wedge

    50* Honma TW-W Gap Wedge

    Miura KM 005 Putter

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  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX  25409WRX Points: 2,565Handicap: 2 ManyPosts: 25,409 ClubWRX
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    On -, @Augster said:

    If it moved, that is changed position, then there is a penalty. You only need to replace on the spot if you can stop your swing.

    If it only oscillated, rocked back and forth but ended up in the same spot, no penalty.

    Moving a ball and hitting a ball are two separate actions. They aren’t covered in the double-hit rule.

    The Augster is spot on here.

    Posted:
  • Colin LColin L Members  2449WRX Points: 400Handicap: 16.5Posts: 2,449 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @theothertwo said:

    On -, @Colin L said:

    Erm, how can you hit a ball as you begin your backswing when it is in front of your club?

    With the waggle, trigger kind of like a forward press when putting.

    A forward press can't be part of your backswing, can it?
    (Ok, I'm not entirely serious.)

    Posted:
  • hacker49hacker49 Members  587WRX Points: 134Posts: 587 Golden Tee
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    Unintentional contact is not a penalty as long as you replace it. Can't remember which pro it was but saw they hit the ball off the tee during their "waggle". They replaced the ball on the tee with no penalty.

    Posted:
  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members  18116WRX Points: 1,051Posts: 18,116 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 11, 2019 #11

    On -, @hacker49 said:

    Unintentional contact is not a penalty as long as you replace it. Can't remember which pro it was but saw they hit the ball off the tee during their "waggle". They replaced the ball on the tee with no penalty.

    The teeing ground is different with different rules. There is not penalty in that situation, as the ball is not "in play" until the player makes a stroke at the ball. In fact the player can then re-tee in a different location, if he/she wishes.

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  • rogolfrogolf Members  4355WRX Points: 604Posts: 4,355 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 11, 2019 #12

    On -, @hacker49 said:

    Unintentional contact is not a penalty as long as you replace it. Can't remember which pro it was but saw they hit the ball off the tee during their "waggle". They replaced the ball on the tee with no penalty.

    Not true. It's not a penalty in the teeing area or on the putting green, but it is a penalty everywhere else on the course, and the ball must be replaced at its original spot. See Rule 9.4

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  • DaveLeeNCDaveLeeNC Pinehurst, NCMembers  5837WRX Points: 521Posts: 5,837 Titanium Tees
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    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Posted:
  • sui generissui generis Members  4458WRX Points: 785Posts: 4,458 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

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  • DaveLeeNCDaveLeeNC Pinehurst, NCMembers  5837WRX Points: 521Posts: 5,837 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 12, 2019 #15

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    Posted:
  • antipantip Members  1168WRX Points: 382Posts: 1,168 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    Posted:
  • SawgrassSawgrass Members  15876WRX Points: 1,157Posts: 15,876 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @antip said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    And what a joy that would be!

    Posted:
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  • antipantip Members  1168WRX Points: 382Posts: 1,168 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    On -, @antip said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    And what a joy that would be!

    Well I'd be holding a grudge against the original ball!

    Posted:
  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5337WRX Points: 540Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,337 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 12, 2019 #19

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    Not to muddy the waters... under the old rules, I thought that once you had hit your first ball in the teeing ground - if you accidentally knocked your ball off the tee on a secondary ball (ie provisional) you then faced penalty for moving get ball. This came up in a rules seminar I was in. As it was super obscure I never looking into it, and just made sure to tee up my provisionals in a steady way.

    Not sure if this is correct in the old rules or applies to the new rules.

    Posted:
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members  4975WRX Points: 485Handicap: 3,8Posts: 4,975 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway).

    I wonder what you mean by that...

    A ball on a tee is not in play until you make a stroke at it. If you dribble a ball of the tee before it is in play it does not matter where the ball ends up, it must be re-teed without penalty (or you may decide not to tee it but you are not allowed to play that ball if it is not in the teeing area). If you dribble a ball off the tee that is in play you get one stroke penalty and may replace the ball or play as it lies if it is still in the teeing area. If not you must place the ball somewhere within the teeing area.

    Teeing area does have some very special Rules.

    Posted:
  • QEightQEight FinlandMembers  3521WRX Points: 189Handicap: 11,0Posts: 3,521 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #21

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    Not to muddy the waters... under the old rules, I thought that once you had hit your first ball in the teeing ground - if you accidentally knocked your ball off the tee on a secondary ball (ie provisional) you then faced penalty for moving get ball. This came up in a rules seminar I was in. As it was super obscure I never looking into it, and just made sure to tee up my provisionals in a steady way.

    Not sure if this is correct in the old rules or applies to the new rules.

    I would say bollocks.

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  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members  4975WRX Points: 485Handicap: 3,8Posts: 4,975 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @QEight said:

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    Not to muddy the waters... under the old rules, I thought that once you had hit your first ball in the teeing ground - if you accidentally knocked your ball off the tee on a secondary ball (ie provisional) you then faced penalty for moving get ball. This came up in a rules seminar I was in. As it was super obscure I never looking into it, and just made sure to tee up my provisionals in a steady way.

    Not sure if this is correct in the old rules or applies to the new rules.

    I would say bollocks.

    You chose the correct term.

    Posted:
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  • Colin LColin L Members  2449WRX Points: 400Handicap: 16.5Posts: 2,449 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 12, 2019 #23

    Back to the matter of moving the ball with the forward press/wiggle, it does matter what that movement belongs to, does it not? if the player continues with his backswing and stroke, then Rule 9.1b applies provided the forward movement is paradoxically considered to be part of the backswing. No replacement, the stroke counts plus penalty (in this case) and play the ball as it lies.

    Posted:
  • antipantip Members  1168WRX Points: 382Posts: 1,168 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @Colin L said:

    Back to the matter of moving the ball with the forward press/wiggle, it does matter what that movement belongs to, does it not? if the player continues with his backswing and stroke, then Rule 9.1b applies provided the forward movement is paradoxically considered to be part of the backswing. No replacement, the stroke counts plus penalty (in this case) and play the ball as it lies.

    I agree Colin. If that waggle/forward press is the starting movement of a seamless backswing process, 9.1b applies.

    Posted:
  • antipantip Members  1168WRX Points: 382Posts: 1,168 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #25

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    Not to muddy the waters... under the old rules, I thought that once you had hit your first ball in the teeing ground - if you accidentally knocked your ball off the tee on a secondary ball (ie provisional) you then faced penalty for moving get ball. This came up in a rules seminar I was in. As it was super obscure I never looking into it, and just made sure to tee up my provisionals in a steady way.

    Not sure if this is correct in the old rules or applies to the new rules.

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    Not to muddy the waters... under the old rules, I thought that once you had hit your first ball in the teeing ground - if you accidentally knocked your ball off the tee on a secondary ball (ie provisional) you then faced penalty for moving get ball. This came up in a rules seminar I was in. As it was super obscure I never looking into it, and just made sure to tee up my provisionals in a steady way.

    Not sure if this is correct in the old rules or applies to the new rules.

    There are a few issues with this post. First, accidentally nudging your (correctly called) provisional ball off the tee before it is played was not a penalty in 2018 nor is it a penalty in 2019. In 2019, any accidental movement of a ball in the Teeing Area does not get a penalty, regardless of whether the ball is in play or not. This is not clear in the rules but has been the subject of a USGA ruling.

    Posted:
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members  4975WRX Points: 485Handicap: 3,8Posts: 4,975 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 12, 2019 #26

    On -, @antip said:

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    Not to muddy the waters... under the old rules, I thought that once you had hit your first ball in the teeing ground - if you accidentally knocked your ball off the tee on a secondary ball (ie provisional) you then faced penalty for moving get ball. This came up in a rules seminar I was in. As it was super obscure I never looking into it, and just made sure to tee up my provisionals in a steady way.

    Not sure if this is correct in the old rules or applies to the new rules.

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway). The real issue is "did this happen when the ball was in play".

    On the putting green - it is different there.

    dave

    Just nit picking a bit, Dave. There is no "teeing ground" any more. There is a "teeing area" and a ball there has more options in 2019. R6.1 & 6.2 tell the tale.

    You are correct and I was pretty careless. There is no more teeing ground and I should have made clear that my comments only addressed the issue of unintentionally moving the ball. And actually since you can now move the ball from the teeing area (once it is in play), I guess I am not at all sure how that would work. Maybe accidently moving the ball in the teeing area (ball in play) is OK. I guess I really don't know what the rules are in the teeing area. Can I change balls in the middle of the hole??

    dave

    If your ball in play is back in the Teeing Area you can "play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area....." R6.2b(6) second bullet point.

    Not to muddy the waters... under the old rules, I thought that once you had hit your first ball in the teeing ground - if you accidentally knocked your ball off the tee on a secondary ball (ie provisional) you then faced penalty for moving get ball. This came up in a rules seminar I was in. As it was super obscure I never looking into it, and just made sure to tee up my provisionals in a steady way.

    Not sure if this is correct in the old rules or applies to the new rules.

    There are a few issues with this post. First, accidentally nudging your (correctly called) provisional ball off the tee before it is played was not a penalty in 2018 nor is it a penalty in 2019. In 2019, any accidental movement of a ball in the Teeing Area does not get a penalty, regardless of whether the ball is in play or not. This is not clear in the rules but has been the subject of a USGA ruling.

    Having read Rules 6.2 and 9.4b Exc 1 I find that slightly problematic. The Exception 1 says there is no penalty if a player causes his ball in play to move if a Rule allows or requires the player to lift and place/replace the ball having moved. Somehow I get the impression that the player actually MUST do something to that ball he has moved or caused it to have moved. Now, the challenging part here is that on the teeing area a player is allowed to move his ball around with no penalty but IMO that moving needs to be done with intent. A ball moved accidentally has not been moved with intent unless the player having done that then declares that 'this is the spot I want to play my ball'.

    I hope I was able to elaborate my thought sufficiently to make them understandable.

    Posted:
  • DaveLeeNCDaveLeeNC Pinehurst, NCMembers  5837WRX Points: 521Posts: 5,837 Titanium Tees
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    I guess that we could go to the endless divot thread ( https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1769726/so-really-re-divots#latest ) and point out that if your ball lands in a divot that is in a teeing area, then you get relief :-)

    What is the rationale for allowing a ball change for a ball in play that ends in a teeing area? I don't see the need for that, but I am sure that I am missing something.

    dave

    Posted:
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  • DaveLeeNCDaveLeeNC Pinehurst, NCMembers  5837WRX Points: 521Posts: 5,837 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Mr. Bean said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway).

    I wonder what you mean by that...

    A ball on a tee is not in play until you make a stroke at it. If you dribble a ball of the tee before it is in play it does not matter where the ball ends up, it must be re-teed without penalty (or you may decide not to tee it but you are not allowed to play that ball if it is not in the teeing area). If you dribble a ball off the tee that is in play you get one stroke penalty and may replace the ball or play as it lies if it is still in the teeing area. If not you must place the ball somewhere within the teeing area.

    Teeing area does have some very special Rules.

    Here in the US, to 'dribble the ball off the tee' means to top it severely such that the ball bounces a very short distance and stops (displaying the kind of movement that a basketball would display when being dribbled while the player is moving). Kind of US thing, I guess.

    dave

    Posted:
  • HaleboppHalebopp Members  3093WRX Points: 332Posts: 3,093 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    I guess that we could go to the endless divot thread ( https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1769726/so-really-re-divots#latest ) and point out that if your ball lands in a divot that is in a teeing area, then you get relief :-)

    What is the rationale for allowing a ball change for a ball in play that ends in a teeing area? I don't see the need for that, but I am sure that I am missing something.

    dave

    It is to keep the rules simple. You can change your ball every time you you drop or place it but cannot change it when you need to replace.

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    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @Mr. Bean said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway).

    I wonder what you mean by that...

    A ball on a tee is not in play until you make a stroke at it. If you dribble a ball of the tee before it is in play it does not matter where the ball ends up, it must be re-teed without penalty (or you may decide not to tee it but you are not allowed to play that ball if it is not in the teeing area). If you dribble a ball off the tee that is in play you get one stroke penalty and may replace the ball or play as it lies if it is still in the teeing area. If not you must place the ball somewhere within the teeing area.

    Teeing area does have some very special Rules.

    Here in the US, to 'dribble the ball off the tee' means to top it severely such that the ball bounces a very short distance and stops (displaying the kind of movement that a basketball would display when being dribbled while the player is moving). Kind of US thing, I guess.

    dave

    Even I, in the US, missed on what you were trying to say. In your case the player has made a stroke at the ball, the stroke counts, but the player has a few more options than if he were in the general area.

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  • DaveLeeNCDaveLeeNC Pinehurst, NCMembers  5837WRX Points: 521Posts: 5,837 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Vindog said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    On -, @Mr. Bean said:

    On -, @DaveLeeNC said:

    FWIW, I don't think that it is correct/proper to think of the teeing ground as having special rules. If you dribble your ball off the tee, but not off the teeing ground, the ball is in play (just like it being in the fairway).

    I wonder what you mean by that...

    A ball on a tee is not in play until you make a stroke at it. If you dribble a ball of the tee before it is in play it does not matter where the ball ends up, it must be re-teed without penalty (or you may decide not to tee it but you are not allowed to play that ball if it is not in the teeing area). If you dribble a ball off the tee that is in play you get one stroke penalty and may replace the ball or play as it lies if it is still in the teeing area. If not you must place the ball somewhere within the teeing area.

    Teeing area does have some very special Rules.

    Here in the US, to 'dribble the ball off the tee' means to top it severely such that the ball bounces a very short distance and stops (displaying the kind of movement that a basketball would display when being dribbled while the player is moving). Kind of US thing, I guess.

    dave

    Even I, in the US, missed on what you were trying to say. In your case the player has made a stroke at the ball, the stroke counts, but the player has a few more options than if he were in the general area.

    Very interesting. That is a really common term in my experience (which is mostly midwest and/or southeast US golf).

    dave

    Posted:
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