Soft vs hard balls

wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 5,808 ✭✭
edited Jul 11, 2019 10:36pm in Golf Balls #1

My golspy has done some testing on all kinds of balls - https://mygolspy.com/most-wanted-golf-ball/ One of their most dramatic conclusions is that soft golf balls, even for slower speeds, are shorter. They seemed to especially pick on Chrome Soft and I saw a Callaway rebuttal saying their testing was flawed.

I (with my mid 80 driver swing) did a very limited test with Titleist AVX vs Prov 1x and expected to see the 1x to be longer. However, my experience was the opposite - the AVX was longer off the tee, longer in mid-irons and held the green better on every shot where I compared the two. All which contradict what I expected.

So now I am completely confused. Anyone have insight? I mean the golf ball industry is full of smoke and mirrors, but I really expected my little test to confirm mygospy and it didn't....

Ping GMax 400 10.5
Callawy Epic 5W
Callaway X-hot 3,4 h
Mizuno FliHi 5 iron
Mizuno MP4 6-W
Fourteen mt28v3 50, 54, 58
Cameron Futura 5W


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Comments

  • hacker49hacker49 Members Posts: 543 ✭✭

    That's why there are so many choices. What works for one doesn't for another. Or one person is looking for more spin and doesn't care about distance. Others care about that extra 7yds of distance and are willing to give up some spin. I am a very high HCP player and can get those cheap hard distance balls to stop within a foot or two of the pitch mark. I can hit a top quality ball and it stops the same or maybe within a foot. I don't hit the ball that any ball spins back like the pros hit all the time. So for me it doesn't make a difference.

  • MyherobobhopeMyherobobhope hey there, blimpy boy. Flying through the sky so fancy free. Members Posts: 2,229 ✭✭

    Ball speed isn’t everything... a few mph faster with worse launch characteristics will not go further.

    The difference is less noticeable the slower the swing speed

    Play the ball you like and are confident with. I feel like I hit the mtb black farther than the x... I haven’t tested side by side but prefer the black elsewhere and don’t care about a possible five yard upgrade.

    Current Bag (Rebuilding as of 5/6/19)
    Driver: Adams Fast 12 LS with Matrix Black Tie (to be replaced)
    3W: Adams Fast 12 with Excalibur (to be replaced)
    Hybrid: Bridgestone j40 with Excalibur (to be replaced)
    4-9: Taylor Made Oversize (to be replaced)
    PW: Mizuon HMP with DG120 Stiff (5/6)
    50 degree Vokey with DG120 Stiff (5/6)
    56 and 60 degree Cleveland Wedges (to be replaced)
    Odyssey Tank #7 (only club I'm keeping this season)

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,185 ✭✭

    @Myherobobhope said:
    Ball speed isn’t everything... a few mph faster with worse launch characteristics will not go further.

    The difference is less noticeable the slower the swing speed

    Play the ball you like and are confident with. I feel like I hit the mtb black farther than the x... I haven’t tested side by side but prefer the black elsewhere and don’t care about a possible five yard upgrade.

    The first part is the pros I've heard for the soft balls to make up any decrease in velocity. They launch higher with less spin and depending on the player this may be ideal.

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members Posts: 18,572 ✭✭

    @wmblake2000 said:
    I mean the golf ball industry is full of smoke and mirrors....

    This sums it up. Some of my longest drives ever have come from the Wilson Duo U ball which is soft as a marshmallow. Plus, the difference in distance between balls is more dramatically influenced by strike quality than by ball variation.

    Ping G400 driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Black 70S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
    Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S (i200 backups)
    Ping Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
    Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"
  • dkelly1269dkelly1269 Members Posts: 106 ✭✭

    For total distance the Titelist Tour Soft is as long as anything for my swing. I get the best distance from those and the Snell MTB Black. I played with some Chrome Softs last weekend and was getting comparable distance

  • bodhi555bodhi555 Members Posts: 814 ✭✭

    @dkelly1269 said:
    For total distance the Titelist Tour Soft is as long as anything for my swing. I get the best distance from those and the Snell MTB Black. I played with some Chrome Softs last weekend and was getting comparable distance

    Not much to add, other than the Tour Soft is sneaky long, especially off the irons. If it gripped a bit better round the greens there is every chance it would be my go to ball.

    The Dee Three: Titleist 917 D3 9.5 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 65X
    The Stenson: Titleist 917 F3 15 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 75X
    The Walking Stick: Titleist 818 H2 19 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 85X
    The Blades: Nike VR Pro 4i - PW - DG S400 TI Shaft
    The Rusties: Nike Engage 50, 54 Square Sole, 58 Toe Sweep
    The Putter: Nike "The Oven" Method 003
    Balls: Nike RZN Tour Black/Platinum, Bridgestone Tour B XS, Titleist AVX
    Bag: Sun Mountain Four Five


  • kcd38kcd38 Members Posts: 371 ✭✭

    if you swing is different than the robot they used, you may see different results. All depends on your swing and impact conditions.

    Driver - PING G400 LST 8.5, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black 6.0
    3 Wood - PING G400 14.5, AD Di 6s
    Hybrid - Ping G410 19 degree, Tour AD DI 95x Hybrid 
    4-UW - Ping i210 DG 120 S300
    Wedges - Vokey SM7 52 F, 56 F, 60 D 
    Putter - Taylormade Spider Tour Black
  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers Posts: 421 ✭✭

    A regular human is probably not going to hit enough shots to really tell the difference. On a perfectly struck shot, the test found 6 yards of carry distance between the V1x and AVX at your swing speed. Unless you hit hundreds of shots on fairly regular and flat fairway, you're never really going to be able to pick one as going further without a launch monitor off the driver.
    I would expect the AVX to go further off mid irons because it spins less, they found this to be true in the test. It also launches higher, peaks higher, and descends at a greater angle. At your swing speed, you probably aren't generating a ton of spin anyway, and the steeper descent angle is going to be more important for stopping than spin. For most amateurs, spin doesn't matter that much for stopping the ball, it matters for distance control.

    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,384 ✭✭

    @arbeck said:
    A regular human is probably not going to hit enough shots to really tell the difference. On a perfectly struck shot, the test found 6 yards of carry distance between the V1x and AVX at your swing speed. Unless you hit hundreds of shots on fairly regular and flat fairway, you're never really going to be able to pick one as going further without a launch monitor off the driver.
    I would expect the AVX to go further off mid irons because it spins less, they found this to be true in the test. It also launches higher, peaks higher, and descends at a greater angle. At your swing speed, you probably aren't generating a ton of spin anyway, and the steeper descent angle is going to be more important for stopping than spin. For most amateurs, spin doesn't matter that much for stopping the ball, it matters for distance control.

    To amplify this point a bit, what that tests showed me is the differences between mainstream urethane ball models in a well controlled robot test are small enough I can literally just pick whatever ball I like best and not have some sneaking worry in the back of my mind that I'm giving up tons of performance versus some "better" or "faster" or "longer" ball out there.

    None of their findings indicate that choosing a less than optimal urethane model is going to cost me strokes. Preference I'm good at, I can easily find the ones I like! I get all of this from their numbers. Their self-aggrandizing hype (ie. "Soft is Slow!!!!") is just clickbait but I do appreciate them taking the trouble to do the test and post fairly complete summaries of all the data.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members Posts: 18,572 ✭✭

    @North Butte said:
    To amplify this point a bit, what that tests showed me is the differences between mainstream urethane ball models in a well controlled robot test are small enough I can literally just pick whatever ball I like best and not have some sneaking worry in the back of my mind that I'm giving up tons of performance versus some "better" or "faster" or "longer" ball out there.

    Exactly. But of course that won't stop GolfWRX'ers from proclaiming this or that ball is longer/shorter "for my swing." People imagine all kinds of crazy things based off uncontrolled tests, when in truth, 90+% of any variation is dependent on the strike quality, not the ball.

    Ping G400 driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Black 70S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
    Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S (i200 backups)
    Ping Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
    Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"
  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,185 ✭✭
    edited Jul 12, 2019 3:36pm #12

    I don't get why a ball can't make a difference? And I'm not super picky on any equipment/specs.

    But I'd bet any of you would take 3 mph more of ball speed from a new driver on average. Also, there's over 1,000 rpms difference in spin on some of these urethane balls with 7-irons. Previously, I've been killed for saying a surlyn ball with a flushed mid-iron shot is hardly different vs. the same shot with a urethane ball. Yet some of the tests on on full-iron shots show less 500-1000 rpms difference between Company A's urethane vs. Company A's surlyn. So the same RPM difference matters when it's a different cover? But within the urethane's you'd be happy playing any of them, and the spin difference doesn't matter.

    There's no doubt that the strike matters most for all clubs. But then for us hackers / non-pros that miss more than we flush it, why even bother trying any different clubs.

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    Ping Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    Ping Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South TexasClubWRX Posts: 1,647 ClubWRX

    I switch between AVX and Pro V1X depending upon course conditions. Locally the wind blows most of the time and the greens, while firm, slope consistently back to front. I use the AVX because less spin with the irons help me manage the wind while still being sufficient for stopping on the greens. When I play tournaments across the state, much firmer, faster greens with slopes going everywhere pushes me toward the spinnier V1X. I also get a little more distance off the driver which is sometimes helpful.

    Driver: Callaway GBB Epic 9° w/Project X HZRDUS T800 65 gm 6.0 flex
    3W: Callaway Rogue w/Project X Evenflow 5.5 Graphite R-flex
    Hybrids: Callaway Apex 3h, 4h w/MR Kuro Kage 80HY S-flex
    Irons: Maltby TS-1 5i-GW w/KBS Tour R-flex
    Sand Wedge: Titleist Vokey SM7 54/08 M Grind w/KBS Tour R-Flex
    Lob Wedge: Titleist Vokey SM6 58/04 L Grind w/TT Wedge Flex
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura X w/Super Stroke Claw 1.0
    Ball: Titleist AVX (wind) or ProV1X (tournaments) in yellow
  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 10,384 ✭✭

    If my good and bad strikes vary by 2,500rpm (which I'm sure they do, at least, with a mid-iron) then should I buy the ball that's best for my 4,000rpm 7-iron shot or my 5,500rpm 7-iron shot?

    As for ball speed, all else being equal I'll certainly take 3mph extra ball speed off my driver. An extra eight yards is nothing to sneeze at. Don't care much about ball speed off the irons.

    But you're reading too much into an AVERAGE of 5 shots with one ball having 130mph ball speed and an AVERAGE of 5 shots with another ball having 133mph ball speed. Even with a robot the shots vary enough that the "true" difference might be 5mph or 1mph or even plausibly no difference at all. So we're not talking about a guaranteed "move every driver shot eight yards forward and drop in the fairway" difference. Just an apparent on-average modest difference based on very small samples.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members Posts: 18,572 ✭✭

    @agolf1 said:
    I don't get why a ball can't make a difference? And I'm not super picky on any equipment/specs.

    But I'd bet any of you would take 3 mph more of ball speed from a new driver on average. Also, there's over 1,000 rpms difference in spin on some of these urethane balls with 7-irons. Previously, I've been killed for saying a surlyn ball with a flushed mid-iron shot is hardly different vs. the same shot with a urethane ball. Yet some of the tests on on full-iron shots show less 500-1000 rpms difference between Company A's urethane vs. Company A's surlyn. So the same RPM difference matters when it's a different cover? But within the urethane's you'd be happy playing any of them, and the spin difference doesn't matter.

    There's no doubt that the strike matters most for all clubs. But then for us hackers / non-pros that miss more than we flush it, why even bother trying any different clubs.

    If you go watch some Rick Shields videos you will see quite a bit of variation in his spin numbers even though that dude's got a great golf swing. To truly judge spin differences between different urethane balls you would need a robot hitting or a low handicap player hitting dozens of shots so the results could be normalized. At the end of the day I doubt the total spin range between balls would be all that much either. Certainly less than the typical variation most of experience due to contact variation. Mind you, I'm not comparing surlyn vs urethane, that's a different thing (surlyn spins less.) Guess I'm just railing on what some people claim are profound differences between name brand balls. I ain't buying it.

    Ping G400 driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Black 70S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
    Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S (i200 backups)
    Ping Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
    Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"
  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers Posts: 421 ✭✭

    @North Butte said:
    If my good and bad strikes vary by 2,500rpm (which I'm sure they do, at least, with a mid-iron) then should I buy the ball that's best for my 4,000rpm 7-iron shot or my 5,500rpm 7-iron shot?

    As for ball speed, all else being equal I'll certainly take 3mph extra ball speed off my driver. An extra eight yards is nothing to sneeze at. Don't care much about ball speed off the irons.

    But you're reading too much into an AVERAGE of 5 shots with one ball having 130mph ball speed and an AVERAGE of 5 shots with another ball having 133mph ball speed. Even with a robot the shots vary enough that the "true" difference might be 5mph or 1mph or even plausibly no difference at all. So we're not talking about a guaranteed "move every driver shot eight yards forward and drop in the fairway" difference. Just an apparent on-average modest difference based on very small samples.

    If you're spinning a 7i 5500 you want to get the ball with the most iron spin you can. Very few amateurs struggle from too much spin, and should do everything they can to keep spin up. Low spin balls are actually better for the very high speed and high spin player. That being said, better players tend to have more speed and more spin, and they generally will want a spinnier ball, because they know how to take the spin off when they need to.

    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • BeerPerHoleBeerPerHole Members Posts: 1,214 ✭✭

    I get confused on this too. My longest drives are with the Q Star Tour and the XV. Both of those balls are markedly longer for me w the driver than other balls, yet are quite different w compression.

    Ping G400 Max, 8-degrees, tour stiff
    Mizuno JPX900 Forged irons
    Ping G400 5-wood
    Taylormade Spider blade
    Srixon Z Star

    Knee Deep Breaking Bud IPA

  • chippa13chippa13 Members Posts: 2,289 ✭✭

    @arbeck said:

    @North Butte said:
    If my good and bad strikes vary by 2,500rpm (which I'm sure they do, at least, with a mid-iron) then should I buy the ball that's best for my 4,000rpm 7-iron shot or my 5,500rpm 7-iron shot?

    As for ball speed, all else being equal I'll certainly take 3mph extra ball speed off my driver. An extra eight yards is nothing to sneeze at. Don't care much about ball speed off the irons.

    But you're reading too much into an AVERAGE of 5 shots with one ball having 130mph ball speed and an AVERAGE of 5 shots with another ball having 133mph ball speed. Even with a robot the shots vary enough that the "true" difference might be 5mph or 1mph or even plausibly no difference at all. So we're not talking about a guaranteed "move every driver shot eight yards forward and drop in the fairway" difference. Just an apparent on-average modest difference based on very small samples.

    If you're spinning a 7i 5500 you want to get the ball with the most iron spin you can. Very few amateurs struggle from too much spin, and should do everything they can to keep spin up. Low spin balls are actually better for the very high speed and high spin player. That being said, better players tend to have more speed and more spin, and they generally will want a spinnier ball, because they know how to take the spin off when they need to.

    Remember, a ball that spins will spin in all directions. Anybody hitting unintentional bends should play a lower spin ball, not higher.

  • buckeyeflbuckeyefl Members Posts: 5,824 ✭✭

    @Nessism said:

    @North Butte said:
    To amplify this point a bit, what that tests showed me is the differences between mainstream urethane ball models in a well controlled robot test are small enough I can literally just pick whatever ball I like best and not have some sneaking worry in the back of my mind that I'm giving up tons of performance versus some "better" or "faster" or "longer" ball out there.

    Exactly. But of course that won't stop GolfWRX'ers from proclaiming this or that ball is longer/shorter "for my swing." People imagine all kinds of crazy things based off uncontrolled tests, when in truth, 90+% of any variation is dependent on the strike quality, not the ball.

    For some people. There most certainly are differences in balls on equal strikes for many people. It's not imagination.

  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers Posts: 421 ✭✭

    @chippa13 said:

    @arbeck said:

    @North Butte said:
    If my good and bad strikes vary by 2,500rpm (which I'm sure they do, at least, with a mid-iron) then should I buy the ball that's best for my 4,000rpm 7-iron shot or my 5,500rpm 7-iron shot?

    As for ball speed, all else being equal I'll certainly take 3mph extra ball speed off my driver. An extra eight yards is nothing to sneeze at. Don't care much about ball speed off the irons.

    But you're reading too much into an AVERAGE of 5 shots with one ball having 130mph ball speed and an AVERAGE of 5 shots with another ball having 133mph ball speed. Even with a robot the shots vary enough that the "true" difference might be 5mph or 1mph or even plausibly no difference at all. So we're not talking about a guaranteed "move every driver shot eight yards forward and drop in the fairway" difference. Just an apparent on-average modest difference based on very small samples.

    If you're spinning a 7i 5500 you want to get the ball with the most iron spin you can. Very few amateurs struggle from too much spin, and should do everything they can to keep spin up. Low spin balls are actually better for the very high speed and high spin player. That being said, better players tend to have more speed and more spin, and they generally will want a spinnier ball, because they know how to take the spin off when they need to.

    Remember, a ball that spins will spin in all directions. Anybody hitting unintentional bends should play a lower spin ball, not higher.

    This isn't true. If you hit a ball with a spin axis of 10* left and 9000 RPM of total spin, it will fly straighter than a ball that has the same spin axis and 4000 RPM of spin. Backspin actually keeps the ball flying straight.

    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • stanger37stanger37 Members Posts: 396 ✭✭

    I am your average weekend golfer so take what I say with a grain of salt but I really think it all comes down to feel and strike quality. I took a day off from work Wednesday and hit up the course. Course was wide open and no one was behind us so I took out a ProV1, TP5 and a Callaway Supersoft.

    Distance wise TP5 went the furthest followed by ProV1 and Supersoft. probably about 7 yards separated them (if they all went straight and where I expected them to go)
    Feel wise was the exact opposite for me. Supersoft, ProV1 and TP5, same with the sound off the face. TP5 was so tingy off the face.

    I switched up balls here and there all day long off the tee, TP5 were consistently tingy, but on solid, center strikes it felt a little more solid where as all the strikes with the Callaway felt like a solid thump.

    So I really just think it comes down to going out there and finding a ball you like and sticking to it. Leave all the small intricate details to the pros and have fun.

    Nike Vapor Fly Driver 9.5*
    ]Nike Vapor Fly 3W 15*
    Nike Vapor Fly 7W 21*
    Taylormade PSI 4-PW
    Cleveland RTX 52/10
    Cleveland CG15 56/14
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 60
    Odyessy O-Works #7
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South TexasClubWRX Posts: 1,647 ClubWRX

    @arbeck said:

    @chippa13 said:

    @arbeck said:

    @North Butte said:
    If my good and bad strikes vary by 2,500rpm (which I'm sure they do, at least, with a mid-iron) then should I buy the ball that's best for my 4,000rpm 7-iron shot or my 5,500rpm 7-iron shot?

    As for ball speed, all else being equal I'll certainly take 3mph extra ball speed off my driver. An extra eight yards is nothing to sneeze at. Don't care much about ball speed off the irons.

    But you're reading too much into an AVERAGE of 5 shots with one ball having 130mph ball speed and an AVERAGE of 5 shots with another ball having 133mph ball speed. Even with a robot the shots vary enough that the "true" difference might be 5mph or 1mph or even plausibly no difference at all. So we're not talking about a guaranteed "move every driver shot eight yards forward and drop in the fairway" difference. Just an apparent on-average modest difference based on very small samples.

    If you're spinning a 7i 5500 you want to get the ball with the most iron spin you can. Very few amateurs struggle from too much spin, and should do everything they can to keep spin up. Low spin balls are actually better for the very high speed and high spin player. That being said, better players tend to have more speed and more spin, and they generally will want a spinnier ball, because they know how to take the spin off when they need to.

    Remember, a ball that spins will spin in all directions. Anybody hitting unintentional bends should play a lower spin ball, not higher.

    This isn't true. If you hit a ball with a spin axis of 10* left and 9000 RPM of total spin, it will fly straighter than a ball that has the same spin axis and 4000 RPM of spin. Backspin actually keeps the ball flying straight.

    Actually no. Higher spin moves the ball more in the spin axis direction. If you are pure 0° spin axis then higher spin generates a higher apex (all else being equal). Lower spin you get a lower apex. If the spin axis is off zero by 10° then more spin goes further offline than less spin. Pure physics.

    Driver: Callaway GBB Epic 9° w/Project X HZRDUS T800 65 gm 6.0 flex
    3W: Callaway Rogue w/Project X Evenflow 5.5 Graphite R-flex
    Hybrids: Callaway Apex 3h, 4h w/MR Kuro Kage 80HY S-flex
    Irons: Maltby TS-1 5i-GW w/KBS Tour R-flex
    Sand Wedge: Titleist Vokey SM7 54/08 M Grind w/KBS Tour R-Flex
    Lob Wedge: Titleist Vokey SM6 58/04 L Grind w/TT Wedge Flex
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura X w/Super Stroke Claw 1.0
    Ball: Titleist AVX (wind) or ProV1X (tournaments) in yellow
  • StanksStanks Everything I post is confrontational Members Posts: 1,354 ✭✭

    Some guys play off feel and others play off numbers. That’s why a lot of pros on tour with hard swing speeds still play Prov1 instead of the X. Rory plays the TP5 and not the X.
    If your looking for a distance difference, it’s really negligible. If I’m getting 20 more yards out of a ball but can’t get it to check on the green, then who the **** cares? You’re caring about the wrong things if your buying a ball based only on distance.

  • Zengolfer36Zengolfer36 Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 94 ✭✭

    Id say that its all smoke 'n mirrors. Some would say you lose distance with a soft ball but others would say you need that soft ball if you have a slower swing speed in order to compress it properly and get the more performance from it.
    IMO, it doesnt matter either way. Its all what you like.

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,185 ✭✭

    @Nessism said:

    @agolf1 said:
    I don't get why a ball can't make a difference? And I'm not super picky on any equipment/specs.

    But I'd bet any of you would take 3 mph more of ball speed from a new driver on average. Also, there's over 1,000 rpms difference in spin on some of these urethane balls with 7-irons. Previously, I've been killed for saying a surlyn ball with a flushed mid-iron shot is hardly different vs. the same shot with a urethane ball. Yet some of the tests on on full-iron shots show less 500-1000 rpms difference between Company A's urethane vs. Company A's surlyn. So the same RPM difference matters when it's a different cover? But within the urethane's you'd be happy playing any of them, and the spin difference doesn't matter.

    There's no doubt that the strike matters most for all clubs. But then for us hackers / non-pros that miss more than we flush it, why even bother trying any different clubs.

    If you go watch some Rick Shields videos you will see quite a bit of variation in his spin numbers even though that dude's got a great golf swing. To truly judge spin differences between different urethane balls you would need a robot hitting or a low handicap player hitting dozens of shots so the results could be normalized. At the end of the day I doubt the total spin range between balls would be all that much either. Certainly less than the typical variation most of experience due to contact variation. Mind you, I'm not comparing surlyn vs urethane, that's a different thing (surlyn spins less.) Guess I'm just railing on what some people claim are profound differences between name brand balls. I ain't buying it.

    Fair enough. Spin itself isn't a huge focus for me but I have played different balls in the same category where I think the flight was just different (and there was one I preferred). My instinct is that there are some combos that work marginally better than others for people (to me, it seems like there's no difference if the spin/trajectory changed slightly from the ball, clubhead, or shaft).

    Now, I'm totally in agreement that strike variation trumps all, all of the offerings (clubs, balls, etc) from the top manufacturers are all "good" products, and it is hilarious how some hacker can play 1 round with anything and think that a) the change will have them competing on tour next year or b) their life would end if they had to play a certain "crappy" ball/club.

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    Ping G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
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  • JustsomeguyJustsomeguy Members Posts: 1,110 ✭✭

    @Stanks said:
    Some guys play off feel and others play off numbers. That’s why a lot of pros on tour with hard swing speeds still play Prov1 instead of the X. Rory plays the TP5 and not the X.
    If your looking for a distance difference, it’s really negligible. If I’m getting 20 more yards out of a ball but can’t get it to check on the green, then who the **** cares? You’re caring about the wrong things if your buying a ball based only on distance.

    A predictable 10 yards is a big deal if you're wrx short. 400 yard par 4. Driver that gets out to 250 leaves 150 in. 240 leaves 160 in. If you get another 5 out of your mid iron for same reasons, you're hitting 1-2 clubs less. So, you're hitting a 7i or 8i instead of a 6i or 5i.

    Cobra F9 10.5* Project X Evenflow Blue 65 R - CAMO!
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  • StanksStanks Everything I post is confrontational Members Posts: 1,354 ✭✭

    @Justsomeguy said:

    @Stanks said:
    Some guys play off feel and others play off numbers. That’s why a lot of pros on tour with hard swing speeds still play Prov1 instead of the X. Rory plays the TP5 and not the X.
    If your looking for a distance difference, it’s really negligible. If I’m getting 20 more yards out of a ball but can’t get it to check on the green, then who the **** cares? You’re caring about the wrong things if your buying a ball based only on distance.

    A predictable 10 yards is a big deal if you're wrx short. 400 yard par 4. Driver that gets out to 250 leaves 150 in. 240 leaves 160 in. If you get another 5 out of your mid iron for same reasons, you're hitting 1-2 clubs less. So, you're hitting a 7i or 8i instead of a 6i or 5i.

    A shorter iron is always easier to control and play. No qualms with that statement. But, if it’s the difference of playing a 7 or a 4 iron then you got problems.

  • Mikey5eMikey5e Members Posts: 896 ✭✭

    I use whatever feels the best of the clubface , and don't really regard distance that into the equation , because I don't think there is that much difference from ball to ball. With that in mind I choose a firmer feel over a softer feel. I think this soft feel that is so much talked about these days is overrated. jmo.

  • wmblake2000wmblake2000 Los AngelesMembers Posts: 5,808 ✭✭

    Wow much more discussion than I imagined. I’ll re-read tomorrow when I’m not exhausted.

    Here’s what I can figure out. Nessism is right - the biggest variable, by far, is the swing I make which has a ton of variance in it. Which makes it very hard to really test balls in any kind of systematic way. So what happens for me is some shots make an emotional impression (both positive and negative) and I end up being swayed a lot by this in spite of being aware of it. I end up sort of in a quandary - I prefer feel of soft ball which has more satisfying impact that translates to confidence but wonder if more spin would give me more control around the green.

    Ping GMax 400 10.5
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  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,185 ✭✭

    @North Butte said:
    But you're reading too much into an AVERAGE of 5 shots with one ball having 130mph ball speed and an AVERAGE of 5 shots with another ball having 133mph ball speed. Even with a robot the shots vary enough that the "true" difference might be 5mph or 1mph or even plausibly no difference at all. So we're not talking about a guaranteed "move every driver shot eight yards forward and drop in the fairway" difference. Just an apparent on-average modest difference based on very small samples.

    Regarding the distance, I meant that it doesn't surprise me if one ball goes 5 yards or so (I'd be surprised by 10 yards) farther than another ball for any one individual. And as some have commented, I'm not sure it has anything to do with compression itself (i.e. soft universally shorter). But when you combined everything about a person's swing, clubs, and ball together, I can see how some combos work better than others.

    On the iron spin and it's implications, we clearly have different views. In the context of "is a urethane hurting me?" I don't doubt that your position has been right, so I respect your comments. But I also think you are drastically overstating the impact of the difference in spin on a fully flushed irons shot between these different balls (I've seen some comments you made on the AVX, which although lower spinning is another more premium ball). To me, the outcome in the examples that you give were likely influenced by something else besides just the spin-rate on the balls. I don't doubt the outcome you described happened, but there could have also been wind, green condition, exact strike, etc (i.e. just hitting the ProV1x wouldn't fix everything). Just think about your best struck 8-irons and best struck 6-irons. For me, assuming the same wind and green condition, I can't see the difference in where the ball lands vs. where it ends up being more than 15 feet (at most) for these two clubs. That's probably about the same difference in spin for the two different ball types for shots with one of the clubs? 15 feet may matter for Tiger, I highly doubt it does for many people.

    Anyways, it's all interesting stuff. I may try some Q-Star Tours next. Seems like these may be softer yet offer some add'l grab around the greens and on the partial wedge shots. I know I don't want to keep playing the ProV1 or TP5 for now (not that they are bad).

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
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  • HawkinsHawkins Members Posts: 5 ✭✭

    Hi all. First time post for me and I find this an Interesting thread. I wonder what people’s commments would be if the **** story had been about driver distance with different flex shafts instead of golf balls “soft shafts are slower! (Every golfer should play x flex to maximize distance)”?

    My own opinion is that there are so many variables ( swing speed, launch angle, axis tilt) that there is no absolute. While the story is interesting, it doesn’t really help me on my quest for the perfect golf ball

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