Junior gaps between clubs

wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat SunflowerMembers Posts: 949 ✭✭✭✭✭

What are your junior's gaps between clubs? Should it be fairly consistent between clubs or do you expect it to be less gap between clubs as you get to 5-iron/6-iron? Any age specific data you have seen with your junior would be interesting.

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Comments

  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Gaps are really dependent on how consistent the swing is. Natural lofted Gaps should be very consistent though an iron set if the swing is there.

    Your almost always going to see a gap bigger at the lower end of the bag. Even if you had perfect carry distance the ball is going to roll a lot more.

    With the higher lofted clubs a great player with a great swing can really dial in distances and in many cases can vary the distances of club down to 5-7 yards.

  • Kcct82Kcct82 Members Posts: 94 ✭✭✭

    Yup, my 6 YO’s gap is 5-7 yards, almost exactly 6 between each club from PW to 6 iron. 5 iron is about 4-5 yards longer than 6 iron, but rolls out more. From hybrid to driver the carrying gap is less noticeable but the roll makes the difference.

  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 14, 2019 6:31pm #4

    One thing I should add is most kids under 10 do not need a full set of clubs and will have a hard time really controlling spin. Ideally they need to learn to control distance between gaps and expected roll. Used to be in the camp of more clubs but now think less clubs is better for younger players.

    Older kids and adults will have 10-15 yards gap easily. This is all dependent on swing speed and other factors. The ability to swing those same clubs and get 5-7 yards from a chosen target and land it is ideal. Easier said then done. The reality is only the best players of world can probably hit a target that close only 50% of time and that might be a little optimistic.

  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 14, 2019 11:48pm #5

    @tiger1873 said:
    Gaps are really dependent on how consistent the swing is. Natural lofted Gaps should be very consistent though an iron set if the swing is there.

    This was borne out in the early 2000s when Callaway did research to design clubs specifically for women. One early result was the Gem set for beginners and high-handicappers. The set included a Driver and 7W, along with a 5H (30°), 7i ( 35°), 9i (45°) and SW (55°). Gem also had a Petite variant for women 5-foot-2 and under with shafts an inch shorter.

    @Kcct82 said:
    Yup, my 6 YO’s gap is 5-7 yards, almost exactly 6 between each club from PW to 6 iron. 5 iron is about 4-5 yards longer than 6 iron, but rolls out more. From hybrid to driver the carrying gap is less noticeable but the roll makes the difference.

    Those Callaway designers arrived at the loft gaps because beginners and smaller women don't generate as much clubhead speed as adult males, for whom most clubs were designed. The Gem beginner set skipped even number irons, and the remaining 7, 9, SW had 10° loft gaps and 10-12 yard distance gaps.

    As also noted, children don't need a full set of clubs. One pro who operates international golf schools suggested donated a 7i, SW and putter to interested children. If they really get interested, you can fill in other clubs later.

    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr.
           4i refitted with SteelFiber 780 HLS Hybrid shaft R Flex 75 gr.
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS +
    MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr. |
    Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) / 34" w. Ping Pistol PP60 grip (stock)
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperSoft
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • Kcct82Kcct82 Members Posts: 94 ✭✭✭

    @ChipNRun said:

    @tiger1873 said:
    Gaps are really dependent on how consistent the swing is. Natural lofted Gaps should be very consistent though an iron set if the swing is there.

    This was borne out in the early 2000s when Callaway did research to design clubs specifically for women. One early result was the Gem set for beginners and high-handicappers. The set included a Driver and 7W, along with a 5H (30°), 7i ( 35°), 9i (45°) and SW (55°). Gem also had a Petite variant for women 5-foot-2 and under with shafts an inch shorter.

    @Kcct82 said:
    Yup, my 6 YO’s gap is 5-7 yards, almost exactly 6 between each club from PW to 6 iron. 5 iron is about 4-5 yards longer than 6 iron, but rolls out more. From hybrid to driver the carrying gap is less noticeable but the roll makes the difference.

    Those Callaway designers arrived at the loft gaps because beginners and smaller women don't generate as much clubhead speed as adult males, for whom most clubs were designed. The Gem beginner set skipped even number irons, and the remaining 7, 9, SW had 10° loft gaps and 10-12 yard distance gaps.

    As also noted, children don't need a full set of clubs. One pro who operates international golf schools suggested donated a 7i, SW and putter to interested children. If they really get interested, you can fill in other clubs later.

    Absolutely, “beginners” don’t need that many clubs. Competitive junior/children golfer would probably be better off with more clubs though. For example, on one of the short holes at junior world, we used SW for the front pin location, GW for the middle, and PW for the back.

    Here is a pic of 3 back to back shots with a GW from 55 yards away.

  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kcct82 said:

    @ChipNRun said:

    @tiger1873 said:
    Gaps are really dependent on how consistent the swing is. Natural lofted Gaps should be very consistent though an iron set if the swing is there.

    This was borne out in the early 2000s when Callaway did research to design clubs specifically for women. One early result was the Gem set for beginners and high-handicappers. The set included a Driver and 7W, along with a 5H (30°), 7i ( 35°), 9i (45°) and SW (55°). Gem also had a Petite variant for women 5-foot-2 and under with shafts an inch shorter.

    @Kcct82 said:
    Yup, my 6 YO’s gap is 5-7 yards, almost exactly 6 between each club from PW to 6 iron. 5 iron is about 4-5 yards longer than 6 iron, but rolls out more. From hybrid to driver the carrying gap is less noticeable but the roll makes the difference.

    Those Callaway designers arrived at the loft gaps because beginners and smaller women don't generate as much clubhead speed as adult males, for whom most clubs were designed. The Gem beginner set skipped even number irons, and the remaining 7, 9, SW had 10° loft gaps and 10-12 yard distance gaps.

    As also noted, children don't need a full set of clubs. One pro who operates international golf schools suggested donated a 7i, SW and putter to interested children. If they really get interested, you can fill in other clubs later.

    Absolutely, “beginners” don’t need that many clubs. Competitive junior/children golfer would probably be better off with more clubs though. For example, on one of the short holes at junior world, we used SW for the front pin location, GW for the middle, and PW for the back.

    Here is a pic of 3 back to back shots with a GW from 55 yards away.

    What your describing is a trap that parents get into when they start competing with younger juniors. You are correct in that more clubs will almost certainly help a younger kid get closer to the hole. The bigger question is by adding all those extra clubs is it helping in long term development. The problem is they need to learn to how to play gaps in between clubs. The gaps will just get bigger as they get older and it is a different game. You also want them to learn to putt from what I call realistic distances if a kid pays a 7000 yard course there is not going to be many cases in a round where a shot lands less then 3 feet. At least 8-9 holes they will probably be 15-30 feet away even with a great shot.

  • leezer99leezer99 I swear I am quitting this site every day... Members Posts: 1,212 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kcct82 said:

    @ChipNRun said:

    @tiger1873 said:
    Gaps are really dependent on how consistent the swing is. Natural lofted Gaps should be very consistent though an iron set if the swing is there.

    This was borne out in the early 2000s when Callaway did research to design clubs specifically for women. One early result was the Gem set for beginners and high-handicappers. The set included a Driver and 7W, along with a 5H (30°), 7i ( 35°), 9i (45°) and SW (55°). Gem also had a Petite variant for women 5-foot-2 and under with shafts an inch shorter.

    @Kcct82 said:
    Yup, my 6 YO’s gap is 5-7 yards, almost exactly 6 between each club from PW to 6 iron. 5 iron is about 4-5 yards longer than 6 iron, but rolls out more. From hybrid to driver the carrying gap is less noticeable but the roll makes the difference.

    Those Callaway designers arrived at the loft gaps because beginners and smaller women don't generate as much clubhead speed as adult males, for whom most clubs were designed. The Gem beginner set skipped even number irons, and the remaining 7, 9, SW had 10° loft gaps and 10-12 yard distance gaps.

    As also noted, children don't need a full set of clubs. One pro who operates international golf schools suggested donated a 7i, SW and putter to interested children. If they really get interested, you can fill in other clubs later.

    Absolutely, “beginners” don’t need that many clubs. Competitive junior/children golfer would probably be better off with more clubs though. For example, on one of the short holes at junior world, we used SW for the front pin location, GW for the middle, and PW for the back.

    Here is a pic of 3 back to back shots with a GW from 55 yards away.

    Nice dispersion. I can't putt from 10 feet any better.

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • Kcct82Kcct82 Members Posts: 94 ✭✭✭

    Tiger, thanks for the heads up. I understand what you’re saying, we practice lag putting as well. Controlling distance will be something we will start working on soon, he’s only 6 at the moment and I have a hard enough time trying to keep his full swing consistent.

    Leezer, thanks for the compliment. Too bad he wasn’t as good during the tournament lol. Shot 55 twice in a row during practice (par 54), but only managed to shoot 58 in tournament.

  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,926 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t think kids need 13-14 clubs until clubhead speed is 100mph with the driver. If properly gapped there’s not enough holes to fit more clubs in. My top 10 year olds play 8-10 clubs, top 12 year olds play 11-12 clubs and several of my top 14-22 year olds only carry 12-13 clubs. Im a firm believer in no wedges greater than 54* until around 13 years old and I like there to be 10-15 yards between each club depending on clubhead speed.

  • hangontighthangontight Members Posts: 600 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Jul 17, 2019 9:46pm #11

    @iteachgolf said:
    I don’t think kids need 13-14 clubs until clubhead speed is 100mph with the driver. If properly gapped there’s not enough holes to fit more clubs in. My top 10 year olds play 8-10 clubs, top 12 year olds play 11-12 clubs and several of my top 14-22 year olds only carry 12-13 clubs. Im a firm believer in no wedges greater than 54* until around 13 years old and I like there to be 10-15 yards between each club depending on clubhead speed.

    Good info, @iteachgolf . So I am clear, is the purpose of your suggestion For the younger kids of 8 -10 clubs (and the resulting larger Gaps) to force them to learn to hit each club more varied distances (skills development)?

  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members Posts: 16,926 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @hangontight said:

    @iteachgolf said:
    I don’t think kids need 13-14 clubs until clubhead speed is 100mph with the driver. If properly gapped there’s not enough holes to fit more clubs in. My top 10 year olds play 8-10 clubs, top 12 year olds play 11-12 clubs and several of my top 14-22 year olds only carry 12-13 clubs. Im a firm believer in no wedges greater than 54* until around 13 years old and I like there to be 10-15 yards between each club depending on clubhead speed.

    Good info, @iteachgolf . So I am clear, is the purpose of your suggestion For the younger kids of 8 -10 clubs (and the resulting larger Gaps) to force them to learn to hit each club more varied distances (skills development)?

    10 yards isn’t a large gap and with how little spin kids 8-10 are going to generate proximity to the hole won’t be better than 15-20’. With a 10 yard gap on full shots kids should be able to go between the two clubs so that’d leave at most a gap of 5 yards. Best players in the world aren’t hitting it within 5 yards of the flag

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