Do You Wish PGA Was in August?

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  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    He is the most vocal and obstinate then.

    Plus the one bit of fact/data to support his position is "the players is just as strong as the PGA half the time" is simply a weak argument. The next item brought to the table is "the major season is the same length." While true, it is more about flow than length. The previous versions of the PGA Tour season had a nice flow of tournaments that geographically made some sense and played to a crescendo at the majors.

    e.g. - The Houston Open played as a nice precursor to The Masters as that course was overseeded. The Irish and Scottish Opens are the links golf warm-ups and the John Deere, while the course had nothing to offer as far as a likeness to what you find on The Open Rota, it had a nice niche as the last opportunity to get into the field and JD would fly the winner over to get them there. The Memphis event doesn't fit well anywhere I am afraid but Fed Ex. And the playoffs are not needed nor wanted really but Fed Ex.

  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @smashdn said:

    @LICC said:
    People who aren’t brainwashed by what the media calls a “major” can see the Players is as good or better than PGA Championships half the time. The PGA in May helps the stature of PGA

    When you find yourself amongst a group of people and you are the lone voice in opposition to the majority viewpoint, it might pay to rethink your position, you could well be wrong.

    Ha! Based on the others who commented agreement with me, the number of likes of my comments in this discussion, and viewership numbers, I think your comment here needs a reality check.

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Or we can wait and see the viewership numbers to use real data.

  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @smashdn said:
    He is the most vocal and obstinate then.

    Plus the one bit of fact/data to support his position is "the players is just as strong as the PGA half the time" is simply a weak argument. The next item brought to the table is "the major season is the same length." While true, it is more about flow than length. The previous versions of the PGA Tour season had a nice flow of tournaments that geographically made some sense and played to a crescendo at the majors.

    e.g. - The Houston Open played as a nice precursor to The Masters as that course was overseeded. The Irish and Scottish Opens are the links golf warm-ups and the John Deere, while the course had nothing to offer as far as a likeness to what you find on The Open Rota, it had a nice niche as the last opportunity to get into the field and JD would fly the winner over to get them there. The Memphis event doesn't fit well anywhere I am afraid but Fed Ex. And the playoffs are not needed nor wanted really but Fed Ex.

    The Players and the PGA over time are equally good tournaments. That is directly on point to this discussion
    The new schedule will find its own flow. Half the top players haven't played the week before a major anyway. Very few US players go play in the Irish or Scottish Opens and they still can. You don't like the playoff for some inexplicable reasons, but many others do.

  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 5,402 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @smashdn said:
    He is the most vocal and obstinate then.

    Plus the one bit of fact/data to support his position is "the players is just as strong as the PGA half the time" is simply a weak argument. The next item brought to the table is "the major season is the same length." While true, it is more about flow than length. The previous versions of the PGA Tour season had a nice flow of tournaments that geographically made some sense and played to a crescendo at the majors.

    e.g. - The Houston Open played as a nice precursor to The Masters as that course was overseeded. The Irish and Scottish Opens are the links golf warm-ups and the John Deere, while the course had nothing to offer as far as a likeness to what you find on The Open Rota, it had a nice niche as the last opportunity to get into the field and JD would fly the winner over to get them there. The Memphis event doesn't fit well anywhere I am afraid but Fed Ex. And the playoffs are not needed nor wanted really but Fed Ex.

    The John Deere is still played the week before the US Open.

    FedEx is coming for the Irish Open spot though.

    You may not need or want the FedEx Cup Playoffs, but the PGA Tour pros have 70,000,000 reasons to ignore your wishes.

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  • doublehansdoublehans Members Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 6, 2019 8:47pm #127

    No. PGA makes more sense following the Masters, it can ride on the enthusiasm of the biggest major which should help the PGA's stature vs just being the afterthought 4th major it was. Plus, being earlier will give it the ability to go some places the US Open cannot, Texas, Florida, etc. and further distinguish itself. Would I rather the season be a little less compressed, yeah, but PGA being the 2d major makes a lot of sense and should make that major better. So does the Players coming before the Masters, always liked the Players more that way.

    I do dislike the Tour Championship in August. Mostly because Atlanta in August is a bit much heat wise, late September was ok at least. But I get TV drives that.

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Can we agree then that maybe the tour schedule is not the best for golf but the best for golf on tv?

  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doublehans said:
    No. PGA makes more sense following the Masters, it can ride on the enthusiasm of the biggest major which should help the PGA's stature vs just being the afterthought 4th major it was. Plus, being earlier will give it the ability to go some places the US Open cannot, Texas, Florida, etc. and further distinguish itself. Would I rather the season be a little less compressed, yeah, but PGA being the 2d major makes a lot of sense and should make that major better. So does the Players coming before the Masters, always liked the Players more that way.

    I do dislike the Tour Championship in August. Mostly because Atlanta in August is a bit much heat wise, late September was ok at least. But I get TV drives that.

    I'll add that I do like the Fedex events and look forward to watching them in August, and in 3 of every 4 years you have the Ryder Cup or President's Cup in September. And every 4 years the Olympics. A golf fan has great golf to watch from March through late September/early October most years.

  • ea19ea19 future hall of famer Members Posts: 403 ✭✭✭✭

    Bad sign when golf channel already has Tim Cup on a loop.

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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,616 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 8, 2019 12:34am #131

    @LICC said:

    @JohnnyCashForever said:
    The major championship season needs to be longer than 4 months. Frankly, I would rather see the PGA Championship in early to mid September.

    Millions of golf fans across the country disagree, as evidenced by their turning off golf to watch football come September. There is no good reason the majors have to be spread out over more than 4 months.

    I don’t think it’s that many that turn off. A lot watch it via dvr. I’m not even sure if “ Millions “ watch football as a whole. Unless you count 15 mil as “ millions “. Personally I need to see 20 or more, but I digress. And surely they don’t all watch golf too?

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  • GolfjackGolfjack All about the rotation Members Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, the majors should be more spread out. Right now they happen so quickly the rest of the year seems anticlimactic. What's the point of a wraparound schedule when 60% of it doesn't include a major?

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  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golfjack said:
    Yes, the majors should be more spread out. Right now they happen so quickly the rest of the year seems anticlimactic. What's the point of a wraparound schedule when 60% of it doesn't include a major?

    Why does it matter so much to you whether a tournament is called a “major”?

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @LICC said:
    You don't like the playoff for some inexplicable reasons, but many others do.

    I like golf and watching golf. The attempt to make a simple golf tournament into something more than what it really is is befuddling. The playoffs are not true playoffs in comparison to other sports. I get that golf is not other sports but what other sport can the winner of the playoffs be decided while there are still games to be and will be played? If the Sox beat the Indians in a best of seven series in five games, they don't just keep playing the next two games. That is issue about number three I have with them.

    The points are fine, kind of like what Nascar did/does. You earn points and at the end you have a winner of the season. Do that. But you have lots of other season long "rewards" out there as well, wyndam rewards and they used to and may still have where they pick a hole from each round of a particular tournament and whomever has the lowest score for all the chosen holes across the season wins something. These are fabricated things created to either give a sponsor something to put their names upon or find someway to get money back to the pros. Which I am perfectly ok with but lets agree these are fabricated things and not inherent to nor necessarily indicative of being skilled at or besting your peers.

    It really has nothing to do with the playoffs per se but the overall structure of the season. It is front loaded out of fear for tv ratings going sour in the fall and that IMO is not in the best interest for the best golf. It probably is in the best interest of the Tour however due to money. The Tour schedule would not be the first thing that the pursuit of money ever ruined. Basically the best golf months and the best conditions for golf in much of the country are ahead of us and the Tour season is over. Granted we have the wrap-around schedule and the new season starts soon but let's get real, the best players are not playing then and the best courses are not hosting tournaments in the fall months. It is "silly season" for a reason.

    Golf is in an enviable position as a sport because it has the ability to follow the best weather and conditions and make for the most logical travel for its participants if it wants. It could showcase great venues at their best if it wanted. I really think there needs to be a fall major. And I know you don't get into the major - non-major type stuff so call it whatever you want, big tournament with lots of draw and interest and media hype. If the Tour players want a little break I think that the time from The Open to whatever this big fall tournament is the perfect time. Still have tournaments during that time but let that be when your second and third tier guys make their money and you have your Greater Greensboro Opens and Barbasol Championship and what-nots. Then build back up momentum leading to that last big tournament and really put a cap-stone on the season before the weather turns where you can't play golf in most parts of the US. If the tour championship rotated and was held later in the fall at a great venue that would suffice.

  • JD3JD3 Members Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    No, but just like the BO, I wish it had been more interesting. No offense to Lowry or koepka, but large lead majors where the final round is largely ceremonial are boring

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  • BlackDiamondPar5BlackDiamondPar5 Members Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @smashdn said:

    @LICC said:
    You don't like the playoff for some inexplicable reasons, but many others do.

    I like golf and watching golf. The attempt to make a simple golf tournament into something more than what it really is is befuddling. The playoffs are not true playoffs in comparison to other sports. I get that golf is not other sports but what other sport can the winner of the playoffs be decided while there are still games to be and will be played? If the Sox beat the Indians in a best of seven series in five games, they don't just keep playing the next two games. That is issue about number three I have with them.

    The points are fine, kind of like what Nascar did/does. You earn points and at the end you have a winner of the season. Do that. But you have lots of other season long "rewards" out there as well, wyndam rewards and they used to and may still have where they pick a hole from each round of a particular tournament and whomever has the lowest score for all the chosen holes across the season wins something. These are fabricated things created to either give a sponsor something to put their names upon or find someway to get money back to the pros. Which I am perfectly ok with but lets agree these are fabricated things and not inherent to nor necessarily indicative of being skilled at or besting your peers.

    **It really has nothing to do with the playoffs per se but the overall structure of the season. It is front loaded out of fear for tv ratings going sour in the fall and that IMO is not in the best interest for the best golf. **It probably is in the best interest of the Tour however due to money. The Tour schedule would not be the first thing that the pursuit of money ever ruined. Basically the best golf months and the best conditions for golf in much of the country are ahead of us and the Tour season is over. Granted we have the wrap-around schedule and the new season starts soon but let's get real, the best players are not playing then and the best courses are not hosting tournaments in the fall months. It is "silly season" for a reason.

    Golf is in an enviable position as a sport because it has the ability to follow the best weather and conditions and make for the most logical travel for its participants if it wants. It could showcase great venues at their best if it wanted. I really think there needs to be a fall major. And I know you don't get into the major - non-major type stuff so call it whatever you want, big tournament with lots of draw and interest and media hype. If the Tour players want a little break I think that the time from The Open to whatever this big fall tournament is the perfect time. Still have tournaments during that time but let that be when your second and third tier guys make their money and you have your Greater Greensboro Opens and Barbasol Championship and what-nots. Then build back up momentum leading to that last big tournament and really put a cap-stone on the season before the weather turns where you can't play golf in most parts of the US. If the tour championship rotated and was held later in the fall at a great venue that would suffice.

    Thoughtful response. I definitely think "front loading" is a key issue and interest in the season has waned because of this. Other than playing a lot of golf with friends and family right now there's no real discussion in my circles about the playoffs. It's also clear this sentiment is pervasive in the WRX community given that the playoff thread's traffic is fractional to a major. It's inexplicable that a few people don't want to or can't understand.

  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @smashdn said:

    @LICC said:
    You don't like the playoff for some inexplicable reasons, but many others do.

    I like golf and watching golf. The attempt to make a simple golf tournament into something more than what it really is is befuddling. The playoffs are not true playoffs in comparison to other sports. I get that golf is not other sports but what other sport can the winner of the playoffs be decided while there are still games to be and will be played? If the Sox beat the Indians in a best of seven series in five games, they don't just keep playing the next two games. That is issue about number three I have with them.

    The points are fine, kind of like what Nascar did/does. You earn points and at the end you have a winner of the season. Do that. But you have lots of other season long "rewards" out there as well, wyndam rewards and they used to and may still have where they pick a hole from each round of a particular tournament and whomever has the lowest score for all the chosen holes across the season wins something. These are fabricated things created to either give a sponsor something to put their names upon or find someway to get money back to the pros. Which I am perfectly ok with but lets agree these are fabricated things and not inherent to nor necessarily indicative of being skilled at or besting your peers.

    It really has nothing to do with the playoffs per se but the overall structure of the season. It is front loaded out of fear for tv ratings going sour in the fall and that IMO is not in the best interest for the best golf. It probably is in the best interest of the Tour however due to money. The Tour schedule would not be the first thing that the pursuit of money ever ruined. Basically the best golf months and the best conditions for golf in much of the country are ahead of us and the Tour season is over. Granted we have the wrap-around schedule and the new season starts soon but let's get real, the best players are not playing then and the best courses are not hosting tournaments in the fall months. It is "silly season" for a reason.

    Golf is in an enviable position as a sport because it has the ability to follow the best weather and conditions and make for the most logical travel for its participants if it wants. It could showcase great venues at their best if it wanted. I really think there needs to be a fall major. And I know you don't get into the major - non-major type stuff so call it whatever you want, big tournament with lots of draw and interest and media hype. If the Tour players want a little break I think that the time from The Open to whatever this big fall tournament is the perfect time. Still have tournaments during that time but let that be when your second and third tier guys make their money and you have your Greater Greensboro Opens and Barbasol Championship and what-nots. Then build back up momentum leading to that last big tournament and really put a cap-stone on the season before the weather turns where you can't play golf in most parts of the US. If the tour championship rotated and was held later in the fall at a great venue that would suffice.

    You do have good golf to watch in the Fall most years- Ryder Cup/Presidents Cup/Olympics. And there are some great courses on the Fall and winter schedule- Greenbrier, Sea Island, Kapalua and Wailea, and then you get to the California courses.

    I don’t understand the point about the tournaments being “contrived”. They are tournaments with purses and winnings. Not much different from any other big tournaments, including majors. You don’t like the point system but what’s the big deal? All it does is set the qualifications to make the tournaments. Now the handicapping of the Tour Championship does warrant criticism. Let’s see how it plays out.

  • dmecca2dmecca2 Scranton, PAMembers Posts: 37 ✭✭

    @ea19 said:
    Bad sign when golf channel already has Tim Cup on a loop.

    I would love to see more dev tours instead. They should start the KFT on saturday and that would allow them to show monday and tuesday on the golf channel rather than repeats. Wins on the dev tours are so much more impactful and life changing than most on the pga

  • ray9898ray9898 Members Posts: 829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 4:50pm #139

    @dmecca2 said:

    I would love to see more dev tours instead. They should start the KFT on saturday and that would allow them to show monday and tuesday on the golf channel rather than repeats. Wins on the dev tours are so much more impactful and life changing than most on the pga

    .....and how many fans do you think will show up for the event on a workday? Those tours struggle for attendance as it is.

  • dmecca2dmecca2 Scranton, PAMembers Posts: 37 ✭✭

    @ray9898 said:

    .....and how many fans do you think will show up for the event on a workday? Those tours struggle for attendance as it is.

    Valid point. Although the pga tour gets nice attendance on thursdays and fridays. So I would think the added tv attention would spark a greater interest in showing up to the event.

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @LICC said:
    I don’t understand the point about the tournaments being “contrived”. They are tournaments with purses and winnings. Not much different from any other big tournaments, including majors. You don’t like the point system but what’s the big deal? All it does is set the qualifications to make the tournaments. Now the handicapping of the Tour Championship does warrant criticism. Let’s see how it plays out.

    The tournaments aren't contrived, they are what they are (in fact I didn't use the word contrived at all). If it were a true playoff your season champ would be the guy who won the last tournament. They have made changes to assist with that being the case but it is not foolproof. I get that they want to reward a season's worth of good golf (and incentivise the players to play more and certain tournaments) and they want to have a quote/unquote championship too but they have combined the two and I don't think it is working well.

    Aside from Old White (which is interesting architecture though maybe not the greatest test for the pros) the other courses don't turn my crank. How about Shinnecock in late September or early October?

  • ray9898ray9898 Members Posts: 829 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dmecca2 said:

    Valid point. Although the pga tour gets nice attendance on thursdays and fridays. So I would think the added tv attention would spark a greater interest in showing up to the event.

    I guess it is possible. I just see those tournaments sinking if they lose any of the revenue they have coming in.

  • dmecca2dmecca2 Scranton, PAMembers Posts: 37 ✭✭

    @ray9898 said:
    I guess it is possible. I just see those tournaments sinking if they lose any of the revenue they have coming in.

    Most of that revenue is from sponsorships. I would think those sponsors would be happy with their name being shown on the golf channel primetime mondays and tuesdays.

  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @smashdn said:

    @LICC said:
    I don’t understand the point about the tournaments being “contrived”. They are tournaments with purses and winnings. Not much different from any other big tournaments, including majors. You don’t like the point system but what’s the big deal? All it does is set the qualifications to make the tournaments. Now the handicapping of the Tour Championship does warrant criticism. Let’s see how it plays out.

    The tournaments aren't contrived, they are what they are (in fact I didn't use the word contrived at all). If it were a true playoff your season champ would be the guy who won the last tournament. They have made changes to assist with that being the case but it is not foolproof. I get that they want to reward a season's worth of good golf (and incentivise the players to play more and certain tournaments) and they want to have a quote/unquote championship too but they have combined the two and I don't think it is working well.

    Aside from Old White (which is interesting architecture though maybe not the greatest test for the pros) the other courses don't turn my crank. How about Shinnecock in late September or early October?

    Shinnecock is only a US Open course. And that would be a big weather risk playing out east in October.
    Have you ever played Sea Island? Great course.

  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,283 ClubWRX

    @dmecca2 said:

    @ray9898 said:

    .....and how many fans do you think will show up for the event on a workday? Those tours struggle for attendance as it is.

    Valid point. Although the pga tour gets nice attendance on thursdays and fridays. So I would think the added tv attention would spark a greater interest in showing up to the event.

    What? You aren't talking about the PGA Tour and it doesn't (typically) start on Thurs/Fri for no reason and added "tv attention" (not sure quite that means) just means the people you are going to be lucky to get to go on a Monday or Tuesday (makes no sense for the corporate folks or most fans) will . . . . . . . watch or stream (if they even bother to do that). It isn't "hey there's golf on television, we better get out to that course and watch today."

    If the developmental tours, as you put it, had more interest and sponsor power they'd be on more, and web.com is on plenty.

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 12, 2019 1:38pm #146

    @LICC said:
    And that would be a big weather risk playing out east in October.

    Golf is an outdoor game. The Euro tour has no problem with having their players out there in long sleeves, toboggan hats and a spitting rain.

  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @smashdn said:

    @LICC said:
    And that would be a big weather risk playing out east in October.

    Golf is an outdoor game. The Euro tour has no problem with having their players out there in long sleeves, toboggan hats and a spitting rain.

    Actually the Euro tour does adjust, which is why it plays in the Middle East during the winter season.

  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @LICC said:

    @smashdn said:

    @LICC said:
    I don’t understand the point about the tournaments being “contrived”. They are tournaments with purses and winnings. Not much different from any other big tournaments, including majors. You don’t like the point system but what’s the big deal? All it does is set the qualifications to make the tournaments. Now the handicapping of the Tour Championship does warrant criticism. Let’s see how it plays out.

    The tournaments aren't contrived, they are what they are (in fact I didn't use the word contrived at all). If it were a true playoff your season champ would be the guy who won the last tournament. They have made changes to assist with that being the case but it is not foolproof. I get that they want to reward a season's worth of good golf (and incentivise the players to play more and certain tournaments) and they want to have a quote/unquote championship too but they have combined the two and I don't think it is working well.

    Aside from Old White (which is interesting architecture though maybe not the greatest test for the pros) the other courses don't turn my crank. How about Shinnecock in late September or early October?

    Shinnecock is only a US Open course. And that would be a big weather risk playing out east in October.
    Have you ever played Sea Island? Great course.

    Shinnecock in October could be lovely golf weather - 65* and sunny. It could also be 55* and raining - just like the summer in Scotland.

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  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @LICC said:
    Actually the Euro tour does adjust, which is why it plays in the Middle East during the winter season.

    You are a pro at reading what you want to read whether that was what I typed or said at all.

    In no way, shape or form did I say that they did not go to warmer climes in the truly bad weather of winter in Europe. A simple check of their schedule bears that out. Not just the middle east but also South Africa.

    I only said that they have no issue playing in less than perfect conditions, conditions that I would think would potentially be cooler, wetter, sloppier than what you would find in most places capable of holding a PGA Tour event in the US in late September/Early October. The biggest issue I could see with that time, in only the northernmost places, is potentially leaves.

  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @smashdn said:

    @LICC said:
    Actually the Euro tour does adjust, which is why it plays in the Middle East during the winter season.

    You are a pro at reading what you want to read whether that was what I typed or said at all.

    In no way, shape or form did I say that they did not go to warmer climes in the truly bad weather of winter in Europe. A simple check of their schedule bears that out. Not just the middle east but also South Africa.

    I only said that they have no issue playing in less than perfect conditions, conditions that I would think would potentially be cooler, wetter, sloppier than what you would find in most places capable of holding a PGA Tour event in the US in late September/Early October. The biggest issue I could see with that time, in only the northernmost places, is potentially leaves.

    If you are looking at playing in the New York area in October, Shinnecock is a bad choice and unrealistic. First, the membership wouldn't want a regular Tour event there ever. And definitely not in October. Second, the weather will be colder and the wind could get stupidly strong out there at that time of year. Shinnecock is a windy course as is. Early morning tee times could become silly. Yes, the weather could be just chilly and fine, but it also could get in the 40s and so windy it would be unplayable. If you want October NY-area golf, the more inland, parkland courses with the Fall colors would be a better choice. You still could have weather issues but it wouldn't be as risky as out east by the water like Shinnecock. Something like Westchester CC or Ridgewood.

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 12, 2019 4:39pm #151

    @LICC said:
    If you are looking at playing in the New York area in October, Shinnecock is a bad choice and unrealistic. First, the membership wouldn't want a regular Tour event there ever. And definitely not in October. Second, the weather will be colder and the wind could get stupidly strong out there at that time of year. Shinnecock is a windy course as is. Early morning tee times could become silly. Yes, the weather could be just chilly and fine, but it also could get in the 40s and so windy it would be unplayable. If you want October NY-area golf, the more inland, parkland courses with the Fall colors would be a better choice. You still could have weather issues but it wouldn't be as risky as out east by the water like Shinnecock. Something like Westchester CC or Ridgewood.

    Bless your heart. It was just an example. Pick any course north of Indianapolis and put a tournament there in early October. Crisp weather with the leaves turning would be an awesome visual that you don't get with the current schedule. It would be a true culmination to the golf season and tour schedule.

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