Open Championship: Did Rules Officials blow a call on Ricky Fowler's opening shot, forth round?

I believe they made a mistake. He hit a worker who was in bounds deflecting the ball out of bounds. He was assessed the OB penalty and hit again. We watched it several times. Double bogey on the first hole.
Here is the rule: 19-1

The first thing to note is that in the Rules of Golf a spectator is an outside agency. In fact, in stroke play, any person other than a playing partner (i.e. someone on the player’s own side) and any caddie of the side is an outside agency, including fellow competitors. Knowing this helps in arriving at the correct ruling where a spectator is involved. The most common occurrence is when a ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by a spectator, a true example of a ‘rub of the green’.
A "rub of the green" occurs when a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency (see Rule 19-1).
If this happens following a stroke from anywhere other than the putting green, under Rule 19-1 there is no penalty and in most cases the ball must be played as it lies.

Did anyone else see that???

Comments

  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    don't know the rule or how to interpret it, but the ball "as it lies" was ob, was it not? ...

  • SocratesSocrates How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn? WinnipegClubWRX Posts: 9,481 ClubWRX

    That’s a lot of typing for a first post. But, OB is OB.

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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,651 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Op. Cut and paste this in the rules section. Somebody there will answer it.

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  • TerpFangolferTerpFangolfer Members Posts: 607 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @markatthelake said:
    I believe they made a mistake. He hit a worker who was in bounds deflecting the ball out of bounds. He was assessed the OB penalty and hit again. We watched it several times. Double bogey on the first hole.
    Here is the rule: 19-1

    The first thing to note is that in the Rules of Golf a spectator is an outside agency. In fact, in stroke play, any person other than a playing partner (i.e. someone on the player’s own side) and any caddie of the side is an outside agency, including fellow competitors. Knowing this helps in arriving at the correct ruling where a spectator is involved. The most common occurrence is when a ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by a spectator, a true example of a ‘rub of the green’.
    A "rub of the green" occurs when a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency (see Rule 19-1).
    If this happens following a stroke from anywhere other than the putting green, under Rule 19-1 there is no penalty and in most cases the ball must be played as it lies.

    Did anyone else see that???

    A bit confused by what you are saying? First of all, I believe you meant Rule 11-1 (not 19-1) - do you not think Fowler should have been ruled OB? The only way he wouldn't was if the ball was "deliberately" knocked OB by someone.

    Rule 11 from USGA website:
    "Purpose of Rule: Rule 11 covers what to do if the player’s ball in motion hits a person, animal, equipment or anything else on the course. When this happens accidentally, there is no penalty and the player normally must accept the result, whether favourable or not, and play the ball from where it comes to rest. Rule 11 also restricts a player from deliberately taking actions to affect where any ball in motion might come to rest."

    The key point being - "the player must accept the result, whether favorable or not..."
    The only exception would be for "deliberate" interference...for example if the person had thrown, kicked, batted the ball OB (must have KVC!) - then he would get to drop where it was determine that the ball most likely would have ended up ( from 11.2.c)

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  • Route 66Route 66 Members Posts: 38 ✭✭

    By this logic, if it hit someone who was out of bounds and bounced back in bounds he would then have to re-tee as if it went out of bounds? The bounces work both ways.

  • GolfjackGolfjack All about the rotation Members Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    What's there to talk about? OP answered his own question quite eloquently with the cut and paste. Sure sucks for Rickie. Often spectators are a benefit for pro's though. Just the way the ball bounces.

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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,283 ClubWRX

    Claims they made a mistake but posting the rule that proves they didn’t. Seems like normal rules accusation on here.

  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 3,178 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    No penalty, play it as it lies: ball is out of bounds.

  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 4,059 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @markatthelake said:
    I believe they made a mistake. He hit a worker who was in bounds deflecting the ball out of bounds. He was assessed the OB penalty and hit again. We watched it several times. Double bogey on the first hole.
    Here is the rule: 19-1

    The first thing to note is that in the Rules of Golf a spectator is an outside agency. In fact, in stroke play, any person other than a playing partner (i.e. someone on the player’s own side) and any caddie of the side is an outside agency, including fellow competitors. Knowing this helps in arriving at the correct ruling where a spectator is involved. The most common occurrence is when a ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by a spectator, a true example of a ‘rub of the green’.
    A "rub of the green" occurs when a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency (see Rule 19-1).
    If this happens following a stroke from anywhere other than the putting green, under Rule 19-1 there is no penalty and in most cases the ball must be played as it lies.

    Did anyone else see that???

    Try the 2019 Rules of Golf:
    https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=1
    Now again, what's your beef?

    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • TServosTServos Members Posts: 458 ✭✭✭✭

    I would have been mortified if I was that person who deflected his ball OB. I counted 4 people standing inside the ropes right where his ball landed.

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  • MattyO1984MattyO1984 Members Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    It was OB, no question about it.

    The prospect of the R&A making a mistake on that at their biggest tournament is non-existent. Of course if it had been the USGA...

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  • imakaveliimakaveli Moli Moli Moli Moli Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy... Members Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @MattyO1984 said:
    It was OB, no question about it.

    The prospect of the R&A making a mistake on that at their biggest tournament is non-existent. Of course if it had been the USGA...

    Made a mistake in 2017 ;)

  • MattyO1984MattyO1984 Members Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:
    It was OB, no question about it.

    The prospect of the R&A making a mistake on that at their biggest tournament is non-existent. Of course if it had been the USGA...

    Made a mistake in 2017 ;)

    Spieth on 13?

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  • imakaveliimakaveli Moli Moli Moli Moli Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy... Members Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @MattyO1984 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:
    It was OB, no question about it.

    The prospect of the R&A making a mistake on that at their biggest tournament is non-existent. Of course if it had been the USGA...

    Made a mistake in 2017 ;)

    Spieth on 13?

    yup

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:
    It was OB, no question about it.

    The prospect of the R&A making a mistake on that at their biggest tournament is non-existent. Of course if it had been the USGA...

    Made a mistake in 2017 ;)

    Spieth on 13?

    yup

    Nope.

  • NewbyNewby Members Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is the rule: 19-1
    That was last year

    The first thing to note is that in the Rules of Golf a spectator is an outside agency.
    No he is an Outside Influence
    In fact, in stroke play, any person other than a playing partner (i.e. someone on the player’s own side)
    That person is a Partner
    A Fellow Competitor was often referred to as a playing partner by TV commentators in particular.
    Playing Partner does not and has never existed in the Rules

  • SawgrassSawgrass Members Posts: 15,195 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Worst R&A conspiracy theory ever.

  • sui generissui generis Members Posts: 4,059 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sawgrass said:
    Worst R&A conspiracy theory ever.

    Especially since we know Ricky was aiming for that person and intended for the ricochet to put his ball into the ideal spot for his next shot.

    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • MattyO1984MattyO1984 Members Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:
    It was OB, no question about it.

    The prospect of the R&A making a mistake on that at their biggest tournament is non-existent. Of course if it had been the USGA...

    Made a mistake in 2017 ;)

    Spieth on 13?

    yup

    Nope.

    The driving range was in bounds it may have been a complicated ruling and I could understand people making an argument that the driving range should have been out of bounds but it wasn't and as such the ruling was completely correct.

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  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @MattyO1984 said:

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:
    It was OB, no question about it.

    The prospect of the R&A making a mistake on that at their biggest tournament is non-existent. Of course if it had been the USGA...

    Made a mistake in 2017 ;)

    Spieth on 13?

    yup

    Nope.

    The driving range was in bounds it may have been a complicated ruling and I could understand people making an argument that the driving range should have been out of bounds but it wasn't and as such the ruling was completely correct.

    Exactly! "Should have been OB..." has no meaning.

    This event has been reviewed ad nauseam and the bottom line is the rulings were correct.

  • imakaveliimakaveli Moli Moli Moli Moli Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy... Members Posts: 12,998 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @MattyO1984 said:

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:
    It was OB, no question about it.

    The prospect of the R&A making a mistake on that at their biggest tournament is non-existent. Of course if it had been the USGA...

    Made a mistake in 2017 ;)

    Spieth on 13?

    yup

    Nope.

    The driving range was in bounds it may have been a complicated ruling and I could understand people making an argument that the driving range should have been out of bounds but it wasn't and as such the ruling was completely correct.

    Exactly! "Should have been OB..." has no meaning.

    This event has been reviewed ad nauseam and the bottom line is the rulings were correct.

    Says the guy from Texas :D

  • Roadking2003Roadking2003 AustinMembers Posts: 5,960 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @imakaveli said:

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @MattyO1984 said:

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:

    @imakaveli said:

    @MattyO1984 said:
    It was OB, no question about it.

    The prospect of the R&A making a mistake on that at their biggest tournament is non-existent. Of course if it had been the USGA...

    Made a mistake in 2017 ;)

    Spieth on 13?

    yup

    Nope.

    The driving range was in bounds it may have been a complicated ruling and I could understand people making an argument that the driving range should have been out of bounds but it wasn't and as such the ruling was completely correct.

    Exactly! "Should have been OB..." has no meaning.

    This event has been reviewed ad nauseam and the bottom line is the rulings were correct.

    Says the guy from Texas :D

    Were the R&A rules officials from Texas? Strange.

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,651 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ve played many courses where the range or part of the range is in play. Not rare at all. Also know of a Donald Ross where the range has a net on 3 sides. Range is OB but the net will save it from going OB.

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