Is there a limit to how good someone can get at golf?

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  • dpb5031dpb5031 Jupiter, FLMembers Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @TMoakley1547 said:

    @Ty_Webb said:

    @TMoakley1547 said:

    @dpb5031 said:
    Although for some reason it's fashionable to believe that we're all equal, and that talent is overrated, I totally disagree. We are not all equal. Each of us is unique. Some people are bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, etc., and no amount of training and or instruction in the world is going to transform a **** into a diamond. Not everyone has the athletic and mental traits to be a scratch or better golfer, just as not every scratch golfer has what it takes to become a Tour player, no matter how much they want it and how hard they work.

    Now that's not to say you can't be the best version of yourself. And I'd agree that very few reach THEIR full potential in any endeavor, in golf or whatever the activity. To that end we're ultimately limited by our swing mechanics/technique, our willingness to put the time in practicing, our mental approach including optimism and confidence among other traits, and our willingness to persevere and tough it out.

    I totally agree. I watched an old vlog by Be Better Golf recently. He was playing with a former college tennis and basketball player or something. Apparently the guy had only been playing golf 8 months, was a single digit handicap and had made two aces already. It just comes easier to some people.

    I think there are skill sets that cross over. If someone played tennis or hockey or similar then I think golf will come more easily to you than someone who never played any sports.

    But I also know a guy who took the game up at about 12. When he was 16 his handicap was about 18 and he practiced and played religiously. He’s now I think about 41. His handicap is +3. I wouldn’t say he had natural talent for the game. What he did have was a work ethic.

    Undoubtedly there are physical traits that will make life easier, but I don’t think anyone fit and healthy can’t get to scratch if they start young enough and work hard at it.

    Yep i agree with you. Now take the raw natural athletic ability of this college athlete i mentioned, give it to your friend who is now a +3, and we are probably talking about a tour player.

    That's a stretch. I'd be willing to bet his friend has more natural talent than he's being credited with having. It's more likely that when he was younger he had misconceptions about the golf swing and was practicing/grooving the wrong things. Somewhere along the line he either got some good instruction, or discovered proper technique on his own.

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  • Ty_WebbTy_Webb New YorkMembers Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @dpb5031 said:

    @TMoakley1547 said:

    @Ty_Webb said:

    @TMoakley1547 said:

    @dpb5031 said:
    Although for some reason it's fashionable to believe that we're all equal, and that talent is overrated, I totally disagree. We are not all equal. Each of us is unique. Some people are bigger, faster, stronger, smarter, etc., and no amount of training and or instruction in the world is going to transform a **** into a diamond. Not everyone has the athletic and mental traits to be a scratch or better golfer, just as not every scratch golfer has what it takes to become a Tour player, no matter how much they want it and how hard they work.

    Now that's not to say you can't be the best version of yourself. And I'd agree that very few reach THEIR full potential in any endeavor, in golf or whatever the activity. To that end we're ultimately limited by our swing mechanics/technique, our willingness to put the time in practicing, our mental approach including optimism and confidence among other traits, and our willingness to persevere and tough it out.

    I totally agree. I watched an old vlog by Be Better Golf recently. He was playing with a former college tennis and basketball player or something. Apparently the guy had only been playing golf 8 months, was a single digit handicap and had made two aces already. It just comes easier to some people.

    I think there are skill sets that cross over. If someone played tennis or hockey or similar then I think golf will come more easily to you than someone who never played any sports.

    But I also know a guy who took the game up at about 12. When he was 16 his handicap was about 18 and he practiced and played religiously. He’s now I think about 41. His handicap is +3. I wouldn’t say he had natural talent for the game. What he did have was a work ethic.

    Undoubtedly there are physical traits that will make life easier, but I don’t think anyone fit and healthy can’t get to scratch if they start young enough and work hard at it.

    Yep i agree with you. Now take the raw natural athletic ability of this college athlete i mentioned, give it to your friend who is now a +3, and we are probably talking about a tour player.

    That's a stretch. I'd be willing to bet his friend has more natural talent than he's being credited with having. It's more likely that when he was younger he had misconceptions about the golf swing and was practicing/grooving the wrong things. Somewhere along the line he either got some good instruction, or discovered proper technique on his own.

    How do you know that the people you know who can't break 80 despite playing 150 rounds a year and practising don't have misconceptions about the golf swing or lack good instruction? I think a lot of people assign the word "talent" to what is really "working hard on the right things".

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  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

  • ScottJNScottJN Members Posts: 54 ✭✭

    Reading thru this thread and I can’t help but think people are mixing up Potential, Talent, and Intangibles. Golf is one of the few sports where you can be tall, short, fat, skinny and still compete. The intangibles aren’t as important as in basketball or football. In golf, you need excellent hand eye coordination and strong mental fortitude. I believe **** near 99% of the population could play to a 5 with the right instruction and determination.

    There is no set limit on how good someone can get. You limit yourself by practice time, instruction, determination, and mental toughness.

  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the basic concept that golf is good hand/eye is highly misguided and leads to limiting the scope of what need to be mastered which is good body/eye. In youth one can get the body to do the correct thing in easier fashion, in adulthood it becomes much more difficult and all that is due to basic neurological realities. Bypassing or over looking these things will lead to a boat load of problems and lower potential greatly. Awareness of them, opens up envelope of potential a lot more. Took me 25 years to figure that out, wish I understood it decades ago.

  • Soloman1Soloman1 Members Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 12:50pm #97

    @ScottJN said:
    I believe **** near 99% of the population could play to a 5 with the right instruction and determination.

    There is no set limit on how good someone can get.

    Haha. And 99% could become concert pianists, paint incredible art, get a PhD in Astrophysics and write and perform hit music?

    Sheesh, most people are morons who can barely drive a car or spell “lose” correctly.

    :)

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  • ddettsddetts Roy McAvoy Sioux Falls, SDClubWRX Posts: 1,711 ClubWRX

    @Soloman1 said:

    @ScottJN said:
    I believe **** near 99% of the population could play to a 5 with the right instruction and determination.

    There is no set limit on how good someone can get.

    Haha. And 99% could become concert pianists, paint incredible art, get a PhD in Astrophysics and write and perform hit music?

    Sheesh, most people are morons who can barely drive a car or spell “lose” correctly.

    :)

    You may want to look into the books "The Talent Code" and "Peak". Might be surprised to learn what recent studies and data show.


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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    You need more Shawn Clement in your life.

  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @ddetts said:

    @Soloman1 said:

    @ScottJN said:
    I believe **** near 99% of the population could play to a 5 with the right instruction and determination.

    There is no set limit on how good someone can get.

    Haha. And 99% could become concert pianists, paint incredible art, get a PhD in Astrophysics and write and perform hit music?

    Sheesh, most people are morons who can barely drive a car or spell “lose” correctly.

    :)

    You may want to look into the books "The Talent Code" and "Peak". Might be surprised to learn what recent studies and data show.

    There seems to be quite a few books called Peak, author?

  • Ghost of SneadGhost of Snead Members Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soloman1 said:

    @ScottJN said:
    I believe **** near 99% of the population could play to a 5 with the right instruction and determination.

    There is no set limit on how good someone can get.

    Haha. And 99% could become concert pianists, paint incredible art, get a PhD in Astrophysics and write and perform hit music?

    Sheesh, most people are morons who can barely drive a car or spell “lose” correctly.

    :)

    Since according to USGA stats, only 5% play at a 5 or lower ... no chance even with the proper instruction and "determination". Toss in lack of time, patience, applying the proper instruction, physical limitations, lack of talent, etc and you have your answer. There are plenty of 15-20 caps who do get proper instruction, want to improve, and have time to practice but they aren't getting to a 5.

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  • SNIPERBBBSNIPERBBB Hit Ball Hard SE OhioMembers Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    Throwing objects like speara or balls is a very unnatural motion. That's why baseball pitchers can't go more than 4-5 innings unless they are throwing a shutout no hitter. Fastpitch pitchers can go for days without much risk to their arms so...

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  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,925 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @SNIPERBBB said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    Throwing objects like speara or balls is a very unnatural motion. That's why baseball pitchers can't go more than 4-5 innings unless they are throwing a shutout no hitter. Fastpitch pitchers can go for days without much risk to their arms so...

    i pitched 13 and 1/3 in college playoffs...lol

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  • ddettsddetts Roy McAvoy Sioux Falls, SDClubWRX Posts: 1,711 ClubWRX

    @Krt22 said:

    @ddetts said:

    @Soloman1 said:

    @ScottJN said:
    I believe **** near 99% of the population could play to a 5 with the right instruction and determination.

    There is no set limit on how good someone can get.

    Haha. And 99% could become concert pianists, paint incredible art, get a PhD in Astrophysics and write and perform hit music?

    Sheesh, most people are morons who can barely drive a car or spell “lose” correctly.

    :)

    You may want to look into the books "The Talent Code" and "Peak". Might be surprised to learn what recent studies and data show.

    There seems to be quite a few books called Peak, author?

    I suppose that would be useful!


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  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Krt22 said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    You need more Shawn Clement in your life.

    No I really don't.

  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Nard_S said:

    @Krt22 said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    You need more Shawn Clement in your life.

    No I really don't.

    You were looking for motions that parallel the golf swing. Just cut the grass man, cut the grass.

  • Ghost of SneadGhost of Snead Members Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @SNIPERBBB said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    Throwing objects like speara or balls is a very unnatural motion. That's why baseball pitchers can't go more than 4-5 innings unless they are throwing a shutout no hitter. Fastpitch pitchers can go for days without much risk to their arms so...

    MLB pitchers are on pitch counts and bullpens are much stronger now than 30 years ago. Go back and look at the innings pitched and compete game stats from the 70's - 90s. There is a lot of debate on pitch count as every pitcher is different.

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  • ddettsddetts Roy McAvoy Sioux Falls, SDClubWRX Posts: 1,711 ClubWRX

    @Krt22 said:

    @Nard_S said:

    @Krt22 said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    You need more Shawn Clement in your life.

    No I really don't.

    You were looking for motions that parallel the golf swing. Just cut the grass man, cut the grass.

    Throw some hammers toward the target!


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  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @SNIPERBBB said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    Throwing objects like speara or balls is a very unnatural motion. That's why baseball pitchers can't go more than 4-5 innings unless they are throwing a shutout no hitter. Fastpitch pitchers can go for days without much risk to their arms so...

    Throwing a fastball or spear is way more natural than a golf swing. Going OTT is thinking the three are the same.

  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,526 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 4:07pm #110

    @Soloman1 said:

    Haha. And 99% could become concert pianists, paint incredible art, get a PhD in Astrophysics and write and perform hit music?

    Sheesh, most people are morons who can barely drive a car or spell “lose” correctly.

    :)

    Those are 4 very different things! First off, writing "hit" music is not nearly on the same level as the others, haha. It's a day job that anyone can learn.

    And not to downplay the feat, but as a physical instrument, shredding on the piano requires little more than practice. So it's important to separate the performer and the composer who are two very different people. The performer isn't doing anything all that shocking. Theirs is a fundamentally technical feat. They're demonstrating that they've practiced a lot. It's impressive but only because most people haven't done that work. There's nothing to say only "special" kids can do it however. I'd think virtually all normal humans have the ability.

    Creating meaningful art is tricky. Everyone can create something which can by definition be called "art." But if the measure of one's artistic depth has something to do with the degree to which that person can respond creatively to something in their environment, I might actually agree with you that someone who's lived a boring life may not have the same potential as someone who's lived a more rich life.

    So yes, by some measure we might say that most people will struggle to create "incredible" art. We do tend to see that reflected a lot in society. Artists usually don't follow the standard path of the bourgeoisie as much as they react to it.

    If one wishes to get a PhD in high-level statistics, mathematical physics or something like that they'll have to tackle some intense mathematics along the way. That said, it's still just hard, not superhuman. For a few years they'll have to pour themselves into some high-level mathematics. Again though, that's essentially just discipline. So it's somewhat similar to the concert pianist and his/her technical mastery.

    Just my opinion but I think it does a disservice to the impressive feats you bring up when people try to play them off as merely being the result of a few people having special, God-given idiosyncrasies. Most of the time it's just hard work. If that weren't the case, very few in history would ever accomplish anything. Yet there are literally thousands of all the things you name and the vast, vast, vast majority of them are all otherwise "normal" people who happen to have stuck to a particular thing for a long, long time.

    In short, we're not talking savants or high-functioning types. You don't have to be Paul freakin' Dirac or John Von Neumann to get a PhD in math.

    When you study highly-skilled people you realize they approach the world in much the same way all people do. They ask more or less the same questions. For instance, Ben Hogan and Tiger Woods communicated what they were thinking in terms that resonate with everyone and yet they achieved far more than virtually anyone in history. What was different?

    The amount of time they dedicated to working hard.

    Don't get me wrong. There ARE people who are simply wired a bit differently. There are certainly prodigies like Gauss and relentlessly productive folks like Euler in the history of our species but we don't need concern ourselves with them in a conversation about golf.

    I do understand what you were trying to say though which is more about what most people can't achieve rather than what a few hyper-disciplined people can. On that basis, I would just say it's pointless to talk about whether someone "can" or "can't." That doesn't capture the problem, IMHO.

    I wouldn't say someone "can't" do something if what was holding them back were merely a lack of discipline or shear laziness. Those aren't real limitations that we can discuss on a meaningful basis. Things like that are measures of how important something is to a person and that has more to do with values.

    So my theory as to why most people don't get down to a 5-handicap or lower has little to do with physics, neurology or any of that high-falutin verbiage.

    It's about your values. Golf is never going to be THAT important to most people. Once it gets really hard, most will find something else to do with their time.

    Post edited by MelloYello on
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  • wkuo3wkuo3 RELEASE Members Posts: 4,196 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 3:10pm #111

    You can overcome the mental blockage, but one could not overcome the physical limit for what one has.
    There are advantages and disadvantages from size, height, arm reach and build. It can be explained with high school physics-based theory.
    Reaching close to one's physical limit on golf swing will cause injury since it'll be a frequent motion repeated hundreds and thousands of times each week. Pushing the limit that often that request will definitely cause some health issue.
    Recreational golf is different where one's limt is seldom reached. You'll get to enjoy the game more and much longer.
    I really don't see any problem for the average Joe to reach a single digit handicap index with regular practice and play with or without frequent lessons. If one has the passion and practice enough, a self taught golf swing could be dependable and repeatable.
    Reaching scratch level in competition setting is quite different. Some of us will never be able to achieve that given all the time and the support.
    You will never know for sure until you give it an honest effort to find out for yourself.

  • SNIPERBBBSNIPERBBB Hit Ball Hard SE OhioMembers Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @gioguy21 said:

    @SNIPERBBB said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    Throwing objects like speara or balls is a very unnatural motion. That's why baseball pitchers can't go more than 4-5 innings unless they are throwing a shutout no hitter. Fastpitch pitchers can go for days without much risk to their arms so...

    i pitched 13 and 1/3 in college playoffs...lol

    Quite a feat. The ability to do that is rare even among elite pitchers. How was the arm the next day?

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  • gioguy21gioguy21 NJMembers Posts: 7,925 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @SNIPERBBB said:

    @gioguy21 said:

    @SNIPERBBB said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    Throwing objects like speara or balls is a very unnatural motion. That's why baseball pitchers can't go more than 4-5 innings unless they are throwing a shutout no hitter. Fastpitch pitchers can go for days without much risk to their arms so...

    i pitched 13 and 1/3 in college playoffs...lol

    Quite a feat. The ability to do that is rare even among elite pitchers. How was the arm the next day?

    Actually not that bad - I always had a rubber arm, and was a starter. I threw long toss the next day. It was fatigued and a bit sore but, lactic acid buildup will do that.

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  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Krt22 said:

    @Nard_S said:

    @Krt22 said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    You need more Shawn Clement in your life.

    No I really don't.

    You were looking for motions that parallel the golf swing. Just cut the grass man, cut the grass.

    I see a golf swing is more like a flying huo kick in martial arts, both takes the same amount of body & rotational control, ground forces and sequencing, load and release to pull off to a high degree of impact. Same principles to differing ends. In large part golf is taught hands back and in 2D, when it's more core out and 4D (time) or 5D (amplitude of power). Things are way better these days but golf lacks what martial arts or the teaching of music has established over centuries. That's an encompassing systematic way to teach the craft to the many in a clear manner with proven results.

  • SNIPERBBBSNIPERBBB Hit Ball Hard SE OhioMembers Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Nard_S said:

    @SNIPERBBB said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    Throwing objects like speara or balls is a very unnatural motion. That's why baseball pitchers can't go more than 4-5 innings unless they are throwing a shutout no hitter. Fastpitch pitchers can go for days without much risk to their arms so...

    Throwing a fastball or spear is way more natural than a golf swing. Going OTT is thinking the three are the same.

    Doing it well and natural are two separate things. Pitching us really hard on the arms. Of the people that can make it to pro ball, a large percentage will get knocked out from related pitching injuries. The ones that have any pro career are just freaks of nature. I've played with several of those guys that got hurt.

    2016 M1 9.5 tuned to 7.5
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  • Soloman1Soloman1 Members Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s ridiculous to think everyone and anyone can become elite at some activity. If people could do it, they would be doing it.

    I'm quitting at 6.022 x 10^23 posts.
    Avogadro would be proud.
  • Ty_WebbTy_Webb New YorkMembers Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soloman1 said:
    It’s ridiculous to think everyone and anyone can become elite at some activity. If people could do it, they would be doing it.

    Except for the vast amount of time, determination, dedication and strength of will required to achieve that. It's not ridiculous to think that some activities anyone could get elite at. There are some things that it just doesn't work with - I don't think intelligence is changeable, so doing a PhD in astrophysics is going to be beyond a whole bunch of people no matter what. But playing golf? Look at the massive range of body types and people who have made a living playing golf. From Hogan to Faldo to Phil Blackmar to Charles Howell III to DJ to JT to Koepka to Tim Herron to John Daly.

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Nard_S said:

    @Krt22 said:

    @Nard_S said:

    @Krt22 said:

    @Nard_S said:
    I think one of the biggest obstacles to getting to one's limit is the basic misunderstanding or misinterpretation of how a good solid swing really works. A lot gets lost in the reception & processing of that info and even more gets lost in the translation from concept to physical movement. It can all be pretty opaque and highly misguided and remain that way forever. Some guys take up the game and find a great P6 position intuitively or by accident and go on to do well, many never even come close. The golf swing has little use in the day to day of people. Throw a ball? We all have some experience with that, throw a club underneath your body and pinch one off the turf, what caveman used that method for hunting?

    You need more Shawn Clement in your life.

    No I really don't.

    You were looking for motions that parallel the golf swing. Just cut the grass man, cut the grass.

    I see a golf swing is more like a flying huo kick in martial arts, both takes the same amount of body & rotational control, ground forces and sequencing, load and release to pull off to a high degree of impact. Same principles to differing ends. In large part golf is taught hands back and in 2D, when it's more core out and 4D (time) or 5D (amplitude of power). Things are way better these days but golf lacks what martial arts or the teaching of music has established over centuries. That's an encompassing systematic way to teach the craft to the many in a clear manner with proven results.

    Lost me on that one.

  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soloman1 said:
    It’s ridiculous to think everyone and anyone can become elite at some activity. If people could do it, they would be doing it.

    That is the one interesting part of golf, it's an incredibly wide spectrum of skill/ability. I don't think everyone can/will be a scratch golfer even with tons of time/money/instruction, but if you are under 50, able bodied, and not a complete mental case, getting into high single digits should not be unfathomable. Someone mentioned a golfer getting regular lessons, playing 150+ rounds a year and still not breaking 80. That just doesn't make sense to me unless they are one of those folks that can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers Posts: 3,526 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 6:20pm #120

    @Krt22 said:

    @Soloman1 said:
    It’s ridiculous to think everyone and anyone can become elite at some activity. If people could do it, they would be doing it.

    That is the one interesting part of golf, it's an incredibly wide spectrum of skill/ability. I don't think everyone can/will be a scratch golfer even with tons of time/money/instruction, but if you are under 50, able bodied, and not a complete mental case, getting into high single digits should not be unfathomable. Someone mentioned a golfer getting regular lessons, playing 150+ rounds a year and still not breaking 80. That just doesn't make sense to me unless they are one of those folks that can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

    Totally agree.

    This is golf for goodness sake, not trying to earn the Fields Medal. People are making it out to be WAY harder than it actually is.

    C'mon people.

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  • dpb5031dpb5031 Jupiter, FLMembers Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 9, 2019 6:39pm #121

    @MelloYello said:

    @Krt22 said:

    @Soloman1 said:
    It’s ridiculous to think everyone and anyone can become elite at some activity. If people could do it, they would be doing it.

    That is the one interesting part of golf, it's an incredibly wide spectrum of skill/ability. I don't think everyone can/will be a scratch golfer even with tons of time/money/instruction, but if you are under 50, able bodied, and not a complete mental case, getting into high single digits should not be unfathomable. Someone mentioned a golfer getting regular lessons, playing 150+ rounds a year and still not breaking 80. That just doesn't make sense to me unless they are one of those folks that can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

    Totally agree.

    This is golf for goodness sake, not trying to earn the Fields Medal. People are making it out to be WAY harder than it actually is.

    C'mon people.

    Wrong! (respectfully IMO 😊)
    Why do you think being elite at golf is or should be innately easier than any other sport?

    We've gotten to the point in our PC world where we think everyone is equal. Nonsense. I've been around sports long enough (playing & coaching) to know it just ain't true. Some of us are innately/naturally more inclined to be better than others. When the person with that "gift" applies himself and puts in the requisite time with decent instruction (or by chance figures out the mechanics on his own) is when we get to the elite level player.

    USGA Index: ~1

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