J. Speith__full swing yips

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  • oz dee ceeoz dee cee Members  509WRX Points: 98Posts: 509 Golden Tee
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    Didn’t he shoot like -8 on the Thursday? Can’t be that bad. What’s his OWGR now? Top 50?

    Slump, yes, gone? No.

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9280WRX Points: 2,914Posts: 9,280 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @00steven said:

    Cam needs to go, step one.

    What about greller?

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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,191Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @juliette91 said:

    Thanks for these thoughtful replies. I think I have a bit of an experience advantage here because I've had the full swing yips, still have them. When they were really bad I yipped 50% of the time off the tee and that caused me to quit playing for at least 10 years. Not hyperbole. I really couldn't play in competitions even though I was about a 2-3 handicapper. Despite trying pretty much everything under the sun (there is a lot under the sun for those who seek cures), I would yip even by myself sometimes especially when I would mentally challenge myself NOT to yip. Then who the **** knows why, they became less frequent, sometimes going for multiple rounds without yipping a drive. Then I'd yip one or two at the most and that's the way it is now. When I'm yipping with my tee shots now, I likely yip 1-2 maybe 3 times a round off the tee and lose (if it's 3x) about 4-6 shots/round.

    Starting with Speith's drive at The Open when it was so wayward right that it became the stuff of legend I had an inkling that was the issue. Now, seeing his scorecard and his errant drives that really go way way right mostly (when he I think yips), it's a pattern I am completely familiar with. For those of you on this thread who really have never experienced the full swing yips your comments here have to be viewed with that filter. Just saying it's walking like a duck and looks a lot like a duck...

    Been there , done that and overcome them with driver.

    What Jordan is doing isn’t the yips at all. It’s just a mechanical issue . Which is now a mental issue because he has no clue where it’s going some swings. That’s all.

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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,191Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Krt22 said:

    On -, @00steven said:

    Cam needs to go, step one.

    What about greller?

    Sacking Greller would be same as shooting the mailman for bringing a bill. No reason to change caddies unless he quits.

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  • disco111disco111 Members  1264WRX Points: 357Handicap: 7Posts: 1,264 Platinum Tees
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    A purely observational IMO assessment of JS's current swing problem. He shoots a couple of rounds with good numbers and then apparently his confidence gets bolstered and he starts to swing with increased tempo (harder) and gets away with it until that one or two shots that he over swings and he's back to square one with doubles and triples. Regardless of what swing change he's made, go back and look at his old swing, which had much better tempo and compare it to the new swing and you'll see the difference.

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  • freeze16172002freeze16172002 Members  205WRX Points: 207Posts: 205 Fairways
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    he plays like a little league brat

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  • jvincentjvincent Members  1533WRX Points: 814Posts: 1,533 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @bladehunter said:

    Been there , done that and overcome them with driver.

    What Jordan is doing isn’t the yips at all. It’s just a mechanical issue . Which is now a mental issue because he has no clue where it’s going some swings. That’s all.

    Ditto.

    At one point last year I was aiming at the middle of our driving range in order to try and keep the ball from going onto the course on either side of the range. We're talking about over 100 yards of dispersion. I had no idea where the ball was going when I was standing on the tee.

    Thankfully I figured it out. The cost in lost golf balls was becoming significant.

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    On -, @00steven said:

    Cam needs to go, step one.

    If for no other reason than just getting a new voice in his ear. What he really needs is just two months away to not even think about playing golf.

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  • ShilgyShilgy PhoenixMembers  12558WRX Points: 1,569Handicap: 3.2Posts: 12,558 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @jvincent said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    Been there , done that and overcome them with driver.

    What Jordan is doing isn’t the yips at all. It’s just a mechanical issue . Which is now a mental issue because he has no clue where it’s going some swings. That’s all.

    Ditto.

    At one point last year I was aiming at the middle of our driving range in order to try and keep the ball from going onto the course on either side of the range. We're talking about over 100 yards of dispersion. I had no idea where the ball was going when I was standing on the tee.

    Thankfully I figured it out. The cost in lost golf balls was becoming significant.

    Question for you and Blade..... When you have as wide a dispersion as you and Spieth have OCCASIONALLY on drives. No clue when it's going to happen.... That means something is happening mid swing. Potato potahto on whether you call that yips. Would "Yippy" be more fair?

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  • mjen43mjen43 Members  980WRX Points: 175Posts: 980 Golden Tee
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    On -, @Shilgy said:

    On -, @jvincent said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    Been there , done that and overcome them with driver.

    What Jordan is doing isn’t the yips at all. It’s just a mechanical issue . Which is now a mental issue because he has no clue where it’s going some swings. That’s all.

    Ditto.

    At one point last year I was aiming at the middle of our driving range in order to try and keep the ball from going onto the course on either side of the range. We're talking about over 100 yards of dispersion. I had no idea where the ball was going when I was standing on the tee.

    Thankfully I figured it out. The cost in lost golf balls was becoming significant.

    Question for you and Blade..... When you have as wide a dispersion as you and Spieth have OCCASIONALLY on drives. No clue when it's going to happen.... That means something is happening mid swing. Potato potahto on whether you call that yips. Would "Yippy" be more fair?

    No it doesn’t. The yips are a real, neurophysiological condition. Spieth is just dealing with what most golfers deal with, his swing isn’t very good.

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  • jvincentjvincent Members  1533WRX Points: 814Posts: 1,533 Platinum Tees
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    In my particular case I was trying to play my old shot shape (draw) with an outside to in swing path. The swing itself was smooth but the results didn't jive with what I was expecting so I started trying to compensate mid-swing by over rotating my hands which would result in a snap hook or I'd sense that I was over rotating and leave it wide open and hit a block slice. Once I figured it out I can now just aim down the left side and swing without any conscious manipulation. Balls in play are nice.

    To me the yips are the inability to pull the trigger or a "hitch" in the swing. I didn't have either of those.

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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,191Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Shilgy said:

    On -, @jvincent said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    Been there , done that and overcome them with driver.

    What Jordan is doing isn’t the yips at all. It’s just a mechanical issue . Which is now a mental issue because he has no clue where it’s going some swings. That’s all.

    Ditto.

    At one point last year I was aiming at the middle of our driving range in order to try and keep the ball from going onto the course on either side of the range. We're talking about over 100 yards of dispersion. I had no idea where the ball was going when I was standing on the tee.

    Thankfully I figured it out. The cost in lost golf balls was becoming significant.

    Question for you and Blade..... When you have as wide a dispersion as you and Spieth have OCCASIONALLY on drives. No clue when it's going to happen.... That means something is happening mid swing. Potato potahto on whether you call that yips. Would "Yippy" be more fair?

    I don’t have that any longer. Haven’t since early last winter.

    When I got to the point of calling myself yippy it was manifested in a pause over the ball and a blindness setting in. Like I couldn’t tell where I was pointed , Which caused me to not want to or be able to draw the club back. I’d make myself anyway and one of two misses would likely happen. Huge hook or huge ( I mean 60 plus yards ) push block fade.

    I believe that was the edge of a full blown yip situation. But. I worked back from that ledge. Did so with a big setup change. Went to high tee and hovering the driver , I get through the ball better now than anybody I know. So maybe a touch incorrect diagnosis on my part as working through full blown yips. I don’t have his trackman data , but I suspect he’s a bit like me and has an extremely late release and extremely fast rate of closure of the face . meaning the face is wide open until just before impact with a draw or fade. But overall it doesn’t close or rotate much either. Which is why the chicken wing existed. To hold it off for a draw. And consequently a fade was just a natural byproduct.

    For me lThere was certainly an involuntary element. But not to the point that I couldn’t shake ny head out of it. As in it wouldn’t last for weeks if I worked on setup etc. real full yips are when you cannot pull the club back properly no matter how hard you try ( Charles Barkley ) or you get to the top and a flinch kicks the face open. This surely would be a one way miss. It’s not a different twitch randomly causing lefts and rights.

    What I’m getting at is that I don’t think a true yip is caused by a mechanical issue. Huge blocks with driver are just not hard to hit. Not at all. Hookers of the ball think they are. But then they also accept a 40 yard hook as “ just a bad swing”. It’s the same miss in reverse. They just don’t understand a swing that has very little hand release.

    I think Jordan has a huge mechanical issue. Period. And his state of mind suffers from the huge lack of confidence in his swing. Many players have gone trough this. We didn’t call them yippy.

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  • gvogelgvogel Members  8364WRX Points: 1,247Posts: 8,364 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @jvincent said:

    In my particular case I was trying to play my old shot shape (draw) with an outside to in swing path. The swing itself was smooth but the results didn't jive with what I was expecting so I started trying to compensate mid-swing by over rotating my hands which would result in a snap hook or I'd sense that I was over rotating and leave it wide open and hit a block slice. Once I figured it out I can now just aim down the left side and swing without any conscious manipulation. Balls in play are nice.

    To me the yips are the inability to pull the trigger or a "hitch" in the swing. I didn't have either of those.

    To me the yips are an uncontrolled spasm that happens during the swing. I've had them, I know them.

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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,191Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
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    To add to the above on the fast rate of closure and small amount of face rotation combo. Look at slow speed swings with driver by Phil. His face is wide open until a split second before he hits the ball.

    It’s been said about him many many times that if he’d just aim down the middle , and play for a straight ball and let up 2% on effort , he’d be one of the longest and straightest guys on earth. But he won’t do it. He swings like a crazy man. And when he times it up it’s long. When he doesn’t it’s OB.

    Jordan has similar face positions before impact and yet before he was down the line/upright more and he didn’t offer a full released ike phil. So he hit it good. Now he’s actually gone the Phil pathe and added some inside out to his path and is trying to release it harder. And it equals the death miss which is wide two ways. It’s an effort to hit it farther and it isn’t working. He’s traded accurate upright swing with very little face rotation for a shite swing with loads of timing needed to gain what ....12 yards ? Somebody slap him.

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  • ShilgyShilgy PhoenixMembers  12558WRX Points: 1,569Handicap: 3.2Posts: 12,558 Titanium Tees
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    Hmm, it's mental-i would call it yippy- when it seems to happen exclusively on the weekend. His mechanics seem to work fine on weekdays.
    YMMV

    PS I am including his putting stroke.

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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,191Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Shilgy said:

    Hmm, it's mental-i would call it yippy- when it seems to happen exclusively on the weekend. His mechanics seem to work fine on weekdays.
    YMMV

    PS I am including his putting stroke.

    Splitting hairs I’ll agree. It’s mental for sure. Caused by mechanical.

    But. I don’t know if folks who have pure full yips have to turn on and off like that.

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  • 27x10.527x10.5 Members  1009WRX Points: 141Posts: 1,009 Platinum Tees
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    He made too much money

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  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members  28890WRX Points: 5,701Posts: 28,890 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @27x10.5 said:

    He made too much money

    Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much.

    But it ain’t his fault.

    I really think a lot of these guys grow to hate tournament golf. For a few reasons...,

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  • tideridertiderider Members  2999WRX Points: 2,029Handicap: 5ishPosts: 2,999 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Shilgy said:

    Hmm, it's mental-i would call it yippy- when it seems to happen exclusively on the weekend. His mechanics seem to work fine on weekdays.
    YMMV

    PS I am including his putting stroke.

    it doesn't happen just on the weekend ... had 2 triples in the first round at memphis ... dble in round #1 at the Open ... triple in 1st round at the travelers ... it happens anytime, anywhere ... could be when he's had 7 birdies ... could be when he's already +3 for the day ... certainly isn't the "yips" ... guy is probably top 20 in number of birdies per round ... he has a faulty swing with a BIG miss that pops up from time to time ... got to be frustrating for him cause it's frustrating as **** for golf fans ... edit: #16 in birdies per round! ...

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  • ibradleyibradley Members  476WRX Points: 203Posts: 476 Greens
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    I don’t think Spieth has the driving yips but I do wonder if his days as a top 10 player are over. There are so many young players coming up that bomb it and putt great.

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  • CrushSticksCrushSticks Members  676WRX Points: 137Posts: 676 Golden Tee
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    If it is truly the yips, which I don’t think it is, here’s two comments:
    -it’s pretty impressive that he’s secretly had them and manages to keep them at bay all for one or two shots a round. I had putting yips for a season and still have a short game yip that I have almost fully eliminated, but my brain hasn’t fully forgotten about it and I still think about it the first few chips of the day until I get comfortable or hit a crisp one

    • I feel like he would have just come out and said it at this point instead of trying to fake his way around.
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  • mjen43mjen43 Members  980WRX Points: 175Posts: 980 Golden Tee
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    On -, @27x10.5 said:

    He made too much money

    He hasn’t made much money at all compared to other top athletes (Lebron, Trout, Messi, etc.) and nobody accuses them of losing their edge due to money. Spieth is cut from the same cloth as those guys. Money is a complete non factor at that level of drive, he’s not an average joe who hangs up the day job as soon as he doesn’t need it.

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  • MadGolfer76MadGolfer76 MaineMembers  20334WRX Points: 903Posts: 20,334 Titanium Tees
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    Another, perhaps less common, symptom of the yips is seeing them appear everywhere a bad shot was played from.

    Apparently...

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13883WRX Points: 1,442Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,883 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @Krt22 said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @mjen43 said:

    On -, @Krt22 said:

    On -, @mjen43 said:

    He doesn't have anything remotely resembling the driving yips. Stephen Bowditch has the driving yips, Spieth is just below average. If he had the driving yips he wouldn't make a cut.

    You mean like last week where he shot the worst round of the tournament on Saturday and missed the secondary cut? He has a huge full swing issue, the number of doubles and triples he has been carding recently is terrible

    The yips are a neurological condition that manifests itself physically. They will make a #1 OWGR caliber player look like a 30 handicap.

    There is a major difference between a huge full swing issue and the yips. Spieth is averaging -.392 SG:Tee-to-Green. I'm sorry but nobody on planet Earth is capable of a slightly below average Tour level Tee to Green game while having the real, actual yips. He has a swing issue, not the yips. One drive off the planet per round is not even close to enough to be talking about yips.

    Agree not the yips at all. It’s that stupid flat swing where he sucks it inside and then tries to shut he face coming through.

    Just needs to bring back the chicken wing and hit weak slices

    He’s never. Been weak . Always averaged 290 plus. And he played a draw a lot.

    Holding the face square as long pre and post impact as he did wasn’t weak. His iron stats pre swing change are rivaled by few.

    I thought he played a little squeeze fade when he won the Masters? He’s never been real long or real straight with the driver. He tried to get longer and now he’s crooked as anyone ever and not much longer.

    Dude needs to eliminate one side of the course. His iron play is almost more disturbing than his driver, he went from being one of the greatest iron players ever to sucky.

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    There were just as many long hitting great putters when he almost won the grand slam.

    On -, @ibradley said:

    I don’t think Spieth has the driving yips but I do wonder if his days as a top 10 player are over. There are so many young players coming up that bomb it and putt great.
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  • 27x10.527x10.5 Members  1009WRX Points: 141Posts: 1,009 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @mjen43 said:

    On -, @27x10.5 said:

    He made too much money

    He hasn’t made much money at all compared to other top athletes (Lebron, Trout, Messi, etc.) and nobody accuses them of losing their edge due to money. Spieth is cut from the same cloth as those guys. Money is a complete non factor at that level of drive, he’s not an average joe who hangs up the day job as soon as he doesn’t need it.

    Sure money isn’t a factor for the guys you listed since they all chose to play for smaller contracts to help their team.....

    He made a lot of money which brings other demands and pressure from sponsors, maybe the sit down you had with Jordan when he told you he’s cut from the same cloth as Lebron suggests otherwise but to me he got a lot thrown at him in a short amount of time. Once he’s comfortable again he’ll be fine

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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,191Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @dlygrisse said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @Krt22 said:

    On -, @bladehunter said:

    On -, @mjen43 said:

    On -, @Krt22 said:

    On -, @mjen43 said:

    He doesn't have anything remotely resembling the driving yips. Stephen Bowditch has the driving yips, Spieth is just below average. If he had the driving yips he wouldn't make a cut.

    You mean like last week where he shot the worst round of the tournament on Saturday and missed the secondary cut? He has a huge full swing issue, the number of doubles and triples he has been carding recently is terrible

    The yips are a neurological condition that manifests itself physically. They will make a #1 OWGR caliber player look like a 30 handicap.

    There is a major difference between a huge full swing issue and the yips. Spieth is averaging -.392 SG:Tee-to-Green. I'm sorry but nobody on planet Earth is capable of a slightly below average Tour level Tee to Green game while having the real, actual yips. He has a swing issue, not the yips. One drive off the planet per round is not even close to enough to be talking about yips.

    Agree not the yips at all. It’s that stupid flat swing where he sucks it inside and then tries to shut he face coming through.

    Just needs to bring back the chicken wing and hit weak slices

    He’s never. Been weak . Always averaged 290 plus. And he played a draw a lot.

    Holding the face square as long pre and post impact as he did wasn’t weak. His iron stats pre swing change are rivaled by few.

    I thought he played a little squeeze fade when he won the Masters? He’s never been real long or real straight with the driver. He tried to get longer and now he’s crooked as anyone ever and not much longer.

    Dude needs to eliminate one side of the course. His iron play is almost more disturbing than his driver, he went from being one of the greatest iron players ever to sucky.

    Yep. He did as a stock shot. But he moved it right to left if need be too. From what I see now he’s hitting tons of draws these days. Which makes sense. Would be hard to hit a proper fade from the inside with the club laid off. lol.

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  • MMB1500MMB1500 Members  6655WRX Points: 584Handicap: GolfPosts: 6,655 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @KRAMER1997 said:

    His swing is very timing based and when the timing is off he's all over.

    What is it about his swing that makes it more "timing based" than any other?

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  • agolf1agolf1 Members  1953WRX Points: 1,112Posts: 1,953 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @MMB1500 said:

    On -, @KRAMER1997 said:

    His swing is very timing based and when the timing is off he's all over.

    What is it about his swing that makes it more "timing based" than any other?

    Read post #45 or some of the prior comments about the chicken wing and how he controlled the face longer than most.

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  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  30917WRX Points: 7,191Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,917 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @MMB1500 said:

    On -, @KRAMER1997 said:

    His swing is very timing based and when the timing is off he's all over.

    What is it about his swing that makes it more "timing based" than any other?

    Think of it like a gate opening and closing. An arc at impact. That’s what a flat laid off swing from the inside requires. His old swing was upright and down the line , on top of the ball so to speak. Very little rotation required or wanted though the hitting zone.

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