J. Speith__full swing yips

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  • MattyO1984MattyO1984 Members Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I just don’t see it being yips with Jordan. Whatever it is at the moment, it is clearly not good enough (for the standards that he has set himself) but, the regularity with which he is posting decent if not good scores is a sign that it is coming back. It will happen that eventually he will make it to two, three or four good rounds and he will get a win again.

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  • ibradleyibradley Members Posts: 409 ✭✭✭✭

    @hell_is_chrome said:
    There were just as many long hitting great putters when he almost won the grand slam.

    @ibradley said:
    I don’t think Spieth has the driving yips but I do wonder if his days as a top 10 player are over. There are so many young players coming up that bomb it and putt great.

    When he had his epic year he was the cocky young gun even though he wasn't a bomber. Now the cocky young guns are bombers. Also, I do think there are more bombers now than even a few years ago.

    Spieth is one of my favorite players. I hope he regains his form.

  • tobiasjdtobiasjd Members Posts: 487 ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think it's driving yips, if that's even a thing. Maybe like what Kevin Na has had in the past would be driver yips. Jordan isn't that messed up. I could see it being from changes due to a desire to hit longer off the tee though. That can lead to a lot of inconsistency. Just look how Luke Donald fell off the map. A lot of guys fall into that trap.

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  • EmerichEmerich Members Posts: 120 ✭✭✭

    In my experience all problems like this start when you try to hit it further.

  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,283 ClubWRX

    @juliette91 said:
    There's just no other explanation for off the planet drives or occasional fairway iron shots, more double bogeys than pretty much any other player on tour. Check out David Duval's scorecards as his driving yips escalated. Most oddly, Ian Baker Finch's comments about Speith's performance failed to mention the driving yips and he of all people should be the resident expert. That's why he's not playing. Is it just taboo to say? Maybe, but it's more misleading methinks to attribute Jordan's decline to some swing mechanics. Fwiw, I quit the game for many years because of it and unfortunately it really does take one to know one.

    Played a lot of rounds with Jordan?

  • vjswingvjswing Members Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I think tomorrow's round is absolutely crucial for JS, given his poor scoring average on the weekends. Here are the relative rankings per round:
    R1 : 10th
    R2 : 2nd
    R3 : 172nd
    R4 : 195th
    The idea of full swing yips seems kind of ridiculous, given his ability to score in the first two rounds, but I can't help but think there's some kind of psychological component to it. Excessive self-imposed pressure? Who knows.

  • ShilgyShilgy PhoenixMembers Posts: 11,837 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:
    Yips in the lead ?????

    I hope the kids can snap out of it but weekdays have been good for him. It's the weekends that have been ugly.
    To me the you do not have to have them on every swing, or even every day. Some have described them as not being able to even pull the club back. That is the extreme. Watching Spieth the last couple years he certainly has putts and tee shots that look yippy. If you don't want to call that the yips so be it.

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  • ShilgyShilgy PhoenixMembers Posts: 11,837 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @tiderider said:
    He’s 16th in birdies per round for the year ... yips don’t allow that ...

    Why? Serious question is why? Yips do not have to be on every swing. If they were every swing you would just s**k. Mild yips can be a few times per round. That swing where you have no idea where that flinch came from or where the ball is going.
    Spieth has mad skills. We all know that. But weekend results say something changes.

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  • juliette91juliette91 Members Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I stand by my comments despite the sarcasm. If everyone had to play a round with every touring pro they commented on there'd be no "Tour Talk" on golfwrx. That's not a legitimate comment, it sounds good and hits a mark but it's specious and quite frankly disrespectful.

  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,459 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Shilgy said:

    @tiderider said:
    He’s 16th in birdies per round for the year ... yips don’t allow that ...

    Why? Serious question is why? Yips do not have to be on every swing. If they were every swing you would just s**k. Mild yips can be a few times per round. That swing where you have no idea where that flinch came from or where the ball is going.
    Spieth has mad skills. We all know that. But weekend results say something changes.

    I think he should be proud of his round today.He gutted out a 74.he could have bailed but grinded it out. Could be a turning point. His double didnt come from a foul ball off the tee or a bad iron but an unforced error out of the bunker around the green and a bad first putt. he ran a few putts past today. He and Dustin struggled all day and both did well to hang in there. He might back door a top 10 tomorrow and build from there.

  • ShilgyShilgy PhoenixMembers Posts: 11,837 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @lowheel said:

    @Shilgy said:

    @tiderider said:
    He’s 16th in birdies per round for the year ... yips don’t allow that ...

    Why? Serious question is why? Yips do not have to be on every swing. If they were every swing you would just s**k. Mild yips can be a few times per round. That swing where you have no idea where that flinch came from or where the ball is going.
    Spieth has mad skills. We all know that. But weekend results say something changes.

    I think he should be proud of his round today.He gutted out a 74.he could have bailed but grinded it out. Could be a turning point. His double didnt come from a foul ball off the tee or a bad iron but an unforced error out of the bunker around the green and a bad first putt. he ran a few putts past today. He and Dustin struggled all day and both did well to hang in there. He might back door a top 10 tomorrow and build from there.

    Whatever works. If a backdoor top 10, strike that because I don't believe the so called backdoor finish is a bad thing-it's a 72 hole event, but if a top 10 after playing great and being one off the lead after 36 floats his confidence level great. Good for him.

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    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,459 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Shilgy said:

    @lowheel said:

    @Shilgy said:

    @tiderider said:
    He’s 16th in birdies per round for the year ... yips don’t allow that ...

    Why? Serious question is why? Yips do not have to be on every swing. If they were every swing you would just s**k. Mild yips can be a few times per round. That swing where you have no idea where that flinch came from or where the ball is going.
    Spieth has mad skills. We all know that. But weekend results say something changes.

    I think he should be proud of his round today.He gutted out a 74.he could have bailed but grinded it out. Could be a turning point. His double didnt come from a foul ball off the tee or a bad iron but an unforced error out of the bunker around the green and a bad first putt. he ran a few putts past today. He and Dustin struggled all day and both did well to hang in there. He might back door a top 10 tomorrow and build from there.

    Whatever works. If a backdoor top 10, strike that because I don't believe the so called backdoor finish is a bad thing-it's a 72 hole event, but if a top 10 after playing great and being one off the lead after 36 floats his confidence level great. Good for him.

    Yup thats what i meant. I wasnt saying a backdoor top 10 is a bad thing or anything like that but its a barometer for him right now. He was very visibly frustrated today but seemed very focused as well. He felt some heat being in the last group and didnt completely melt. it was a very tough day but one i think he'll look back on. I have a feeling he putts better tomorrow with the course even more baked.

  • KevinnzKevinnz Members Posts: 281 ✭✭✭✭

    Felt to me Jordan has not been putting efforts into his full swing. His driving has been odd enough since his first year on tour, what actually surprises me is that he has not been able to improve at all, with all his talent. Either hes not practise enough or his fullswing coach is a joke. Looking at other pros, with 4 yrs of tour on their resume they have at least improved one of their worst performance category, whereas Jordan just stays bad all this time.
    I would have seeked a 2nd opinion elsewhere if my coach has not been able to improv e the worst part of my game for 3 mths, period.

  • juliette91juliette91 Members Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    "Why? Serious question is why? Yips do not have to be on every swing. If they were every swing you would just s**k. Mild yips can be a few times per round. That swing where you have no idea where that flinch came from or where the ball is going.
    Spieth has mad skills. We all know that. But weekend results say something changes."

    I agree with this statement, it fits my personal experience with the full swing yips. Mine began during a tournament, out of the blue while I was in contention for some flight non championship at a golf club. On the 13th hole I hit the ball so far left (I'm LH) and felt a twitch so strongly I slightly injured my wrist (which was trying to roll over to close the clubface when the yip caused the club face to turn in the opposite direction. Speith's way wayward shot on 14? at the Open Championship looked exactly like what I experienced countless times. Probably shouldn't have even started this discussion and I'd like to end it. Can I do that as the OP? Please let me know how. If he has the yips or if anyone has them, and they read this discussion, it could trigger another run of them. Seriously.

  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Open Championship! IowaClubWRX Posts: 18,283 ClubWRX
    edited Aug 11, 2019 7:07pm #79

    @juliette91 said:
    I stand by my comments despite the sarcasm. If everyone had to play a round with every touring pro they commented on there'd be no "Tour Talk" on golfwrx. That's not a legitimate comment, it sounds good and hits a mark but it's specious and quite frankly disrespectful.

    It's a simple and wholly legitimate question and hardly sarcastic, and disrespectful to whom? Seems to be more respecting of Spieth than a definite diagnosis that he has the "yips" without information needed to make it.
    It hits THE mark. Saying “it takes one to know one” and claiming because you had something he must also (though you don’t know him at all and what you do know is snippets on TV from the sofa) only has any weight if you have any real insight into his psyche, his swing, his approach to the game and on and on. “Yips” gets tossed around a lot but your diagnosis (of which you are certain, not questioning or speculating) presumes more than you could possibly know about Spieth. Who knows maybe it will be revealed someday that he does, but watching a guy hit errant shots and looking at a few stats is falling way short of evidence of something that requires a lot more information.

    Post edited by Hawkeye77 on
  • aliikanealiikane Members Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Spieth doesn't have the driving yips, his ball striking is just not great right now and his short game/putting is not bailing him out. If he starts hitting fairways consistently, he will move up.

  • WidespreadPanicWidespreadPanic Wizard in the Corner Members Posts: 4,889 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 11, 2019 8:28pm #81

    I struggle to see how a guy with a top 15 birdie rate on the PGA Tour has the full swing yips. And that big miss at Birkdale was a yip? Come on. After that he had one of the best closing stretches in major golf history.

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers Posts: 13,441 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:

    @dlygrisse said:

    @bladehunter said:

    @Krt22 said:

    @bladehunter said:

    @mjen43 said:

    @Krt22 said:

    @mjen43 said:
    He doesn't have anything remotely resembling the driving yips. Stephen Bowditch has the driving yips, Spieth is just below average. If he had the driving yips he wouldn't make a cut.

    You mean like last week where he shot the worst round of the tournament on Saturday and missed the secondary cut? He has a huge full swing issue, the number of doubles and triples he has been carding recently is terrible

    The yips are a neurological condition that manifests itself physically. They will make a #1 OWGR caliber player look like a 30 handicap.

    There is a major difference between a huge full swing issue and the yips. Spieth is averaging -.392 SG:Tee-to-Green. I'm sorry but nobody on planet Earth is capable of a slightly below average Tour level Tee to Green game while having the real, actual yips. He has a swing issue, not the yips. One drive off the planet per round is not even close to enough to be talking about yips.

    Agree not the yips at all. It’s that stupid flat swing where he sucks it inside and then tries to shut he face coming through.

    Just needs to bring back the chicken wing and hit weak slices

    He’s never. Been weak . Always averaged 290 plus. And he played a draw a lot.

    Holding the face square as long pre and post impact as he did wasn’t weak. His iron stats pre swing change are rivaled by few.

    I thought he played a little squeeze fade when he won the Masters? He’s never been real long or real straight with the driver. He tried to get longer and now he’s crooked as anyone ever and not much longer.

    Dude needs to eliminate one side of the course. His iron play is almost more disturbing than his driver, he went from being one of the greatest iron players ever to sucky.

    Yep. He did as a stock shot. But he moved it right to left if need be too. From what I see now he’s hitting tons of draws these days. Which makes sense. Would be hard to hit a proper fade from the inside with the club laid off. lol.

    He still makes a lot of birdies it seems, just too many misses. He needs to find a way to swing hard and eliminate one side, if you need a draw then have a 3 wood in your bag you can hook. I get the feeling if he can gain confidence off the tee his iron game will get better.


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  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers Posts: 13,441 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 11, 2019 8:53pm #83

    @bladehunter said:

    @MMB1500 said:

    @KRAMER1997 said:
    His swing is very timing based and when the timing is off he's all over.

    What is it about his swing that makes it more "timing based" than any other?

    Think of it like a gate opening and closing. An arc at impact. That’s what a flat laid off swing from the inside requires. His old swing was upright and down the line , on top of the ball so to speak. Very little rotation required or wanted though the hitting zone.

    Tilting the plane right? Trying to draw it and pushing then snap hooking?

    Shot 67 today with 21 putts. Lol.


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  • ShilgyShilgy PhoenixMembers Posts: 11,837 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 11, 2019 10:32pm #84

    @dlygrisse said:

    @bladehunter said:

    @MMB1500 said:

    @KRAMER1997 said:
    His swing is very timing based and when the timing is off he's all over.

    What is it about his swing that makes it more "timing based" than any other?

    Think of it like a gate opening and closing. An arc at impact. That’s what a flat laid off swing from the inside requires. His old swing was upright and down the line , on top of the ball so to speak. Very little rotation required or wanted though the hitting zone.

    Tilting the plane right? Trying to draw it and pushing then snap hooking?

    Shot 67 today with 21 putts. Lol.

    Hit 8 greens and made 7 birdies. Is that sustainable?

    Post edited by Shilgy on
    WITB
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    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,616 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @dlygrisse said:

    @bladehunter said:

    @MMB1500 said:

    @KRAMER1997 said:
    His swing is very timing based and when the timing is off he's all over.

    What is it about his swing that makes it more "timing based" than any other?

    Think of it like a gate opening and closing. An arc at impact. That’s what a flat laid off swing from the inside requires. His old swing was upright and down the line , on top of the ball so to speak. Very little rotation required or wanted though the hitting zone.

    Tilting the plane right? Trying to draw it and pushing then snap hooking?

    Shot 67 today with 21 putts. Lol.

    Hey. He may learn to swing that way yet. But for what reason I have no idea. Either way. He didn’t puke the bed this week. But he did shoot himself out of it on Saturday. It’s technically improvement. But I still hate the flippy swing.

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers Posts: 13,441 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah. I hope he shows up next January with something figured out. > @bladehunter said:

    @dlygrisse said:

    @bladehunter said:

    @MMB1500 said:

    @KRAMER1997 said:
    His swing is very timing based and when the timing is off he's all over.

    What is it about his swing that makes it more "timing based" than any other?

    Think of it like a gate opening and closing. An arc at impact. That’s what a flat laid off swing from the inside requires. His old swing was upright and down the line , on top of the ball so to speak. Very little rotation required or wanted though the hitting zone.

    Tilting the plane right? Trying to draw it and pushing then snap hooking?

    Shot 67 today with 21 putts. Lol.

    Hey. He may learn to swing that way yet. But for what reason I have no idea. Either way. He didn’t puke the bed this week. But he did shoot himself out of it on Saturday. It’s technically improvement. But I still hate the flippy swing.


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  • Titleist99Titleist99 Members Posts: 348 ✭✭✭✭

    @Hawkeye77 said:

    @juliette91 said:
    I stand by my comments despite the sarcasm. If everyone had to play a round with every touring pro they commented on there'd be no "Tour Talk" on golfwrx. That's not a legitimate comment, it sounds good and hits a mark but it's specious and quite frankly disrespectful.

    It's a simple and wholly legitimate question and hardly sarcastic, and disrespectful to whom? Seems to be more respecting of Spieth than a definite diagnosis that he has the "yips" without information needed to make it.
    It hits THE mark. Saying “it takes one to know one” and claiming because you had something he must also (though you don’t know him at all and what you do know is snippets on TV from the sofa) only has any weight if you have any real insight into his psyche, his swing, his approach to the game and on and on. “Yips” gets tossed around a lot but your diagnosis (of which you are certain, not questioning or speculating) presumes more than you could possibly know about Spieth. Who knows maybe it will be revealed someday that he does, but watching a guy hit errant shots and looking at a few stats is falling way short of evidence of something that requires a lot more information.

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  • juliette91juliette91 Members Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Hawkeye, appreciate your thoughtful response but agree with Titleist99 who said it far better than me. Many people comment on many subjects here and I'd say most of those comments don't have nearly the experienced backstory as I have with the full swing yips. So I'm not taking those back just because I don't fit the prerequisites you've described for credible commentary. I know what happens with the yips, I know shots generally go way offline to different zip codes but sometimes they're not quite that far offline and just look bad but not abominable. And it's not just my personal experience either. I was part of a yip study by the Mayo Clinic of Rochester NY on the subject and had a lot of follow up with the study authors and others who follow this dreaded golf infection. It often affects only better golfers and those who tend to think a lot vs. a DJohnson type who can act without too much thinking. I have more knowledge about this subject than I will talk about online but even if I was someone who hadn't had the yips at all, couldn't tell a yip from bad mechanics, I'd still be entitled to speak my mind on this forum. You'd be entitled to challenge if I knew what the H I was talking about. That's why it's a discussion board and not an edict.

  • juliette91juliette91 Members Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Even when TWoods went off the rails briefly you could see that his short game had a flinch/yip/ in it and that was the subject of much commentary. But that went away, as do the full swing yips only to reappear during anxious moments of pressure. So much of what has befallen Speith fits this pattern that it's logical to assume full swing yips could be a source of the problem: his very wayward off the tee shots, his unparalleled number of big numbers on holes, his disastrous weekend stats compared to Th/Fri., his thoughtful deep thinking on this and other subjects.

    Personally I hope that if these full swing yips are part of his problem that they disappear--and they can, their exact origin still a threshold question for many experts. But like an alcoholic it's just a period of sobriety when they "end."

  • tideridertiderider Members Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @juliette91 said:
    I stand by my comments despite the sarcasm. If everyone had to play a round with every touring pro they commented on there'd be no "Tour Talk" on golfwrx. That's not a legitimate comment, it sounds good and hits a mark but it's specious and quite frankly disrespectful.

    questioning your speculation is disrespectful? ... how so (legit curious)? ...

  • Nard_SNard_S Members Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    His putting stats came down to Earth and so did his world ranking.

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