Competitive Junior equipment questions

I have a competitive 8 yr old Junior:

US Kids TS3 51” clubs, including the TS3 V15 driver (420 cc, 17 degree loft, 35” total length).

Swing Speed: 63-68 miles an hour per flight scope, so say 65 as an average.

Ave total Drive about 150. He has a very strong grip (his right hand where his palm faces up) that we are trying to change and it leads to increased spin on his driver.

I am looking for guidance from people on information regarding the following:

1. Ball- My golfspy put out the ball data put it all the data into a spreadsheet and charted the linear equation between 115 and 85 mph swing speeds so I could look at a 65MPH swing speed. So at a 65MPH swing speed it is showing the OnCore Elixr, prov 1x, and TP5 with the top carry of 155.67, 155.75, and 153.19 respectively. Now I know this is not 100% accurate and is data based on a robot hitting balls and not a young 8 year old. With all of this said, people talk about compression and the use of a low compression ball like the Wilson Duo but the golfspy data does not support this at all. Anyone have comments or experience with the type of ball a young junior should use?

2. Driver- I have read a lot on here about how bad the US Kids drivers are but I am assuming that was based on the ultra light or the prior gen of the TS3. (Heavy Hitter- is that correct?) I know we need to fix his grip but I cant help but wonder if an adult driver head (2017 TM M2 because I read somewhere it is one of the lightest adult driver heads around 190 g) with a Flynn (Alto 36” total driver length) shaft might provide better distance with lower spin? I know I can get a 12 degree had with the ’17 M2 and add 2 degrees of loft with the shaft… so I wonder if that is enough loft. Any thoughts on this set up and if it would help. If not is there a better set up that people had success with for someone of this age and swing characteristics listed above?

3.

Thank in advance for your help.

For the driver, I'd look at a ladies driver. They are generally higher lofted and may be lighter as well.

For the ball the best thing would be to try a couple of the softer two piece Urethane balls. The Duo Urethane comes to mind.

I have a 9 year old and he has had US Kids, an adult TM M1 12* head with Flynn shaft and Epec Golf clubs. The Epec driver is 18* of loft but they also have a 14* loft for player's in the 60" - 63" height range. He hits the Epec farther and better than the US Kids and the 12* M1 and its not even close. Epec also has a program where you can send the clubs back in every so often and they will reshaft with longer shafts and re weight to adjust swing weight, allowing the clubs to grow with the golfer. My plan is to go this route until he is big enough for lightweight adult equipment.

As for ball choice, my son does better with higher spinning balls. I haven't had him on a launch monitor but they seem to stay in the air longer, but the main advantage is to help him stop the ball on the green with approach shots. Its hard for him to generate enough club head speed to get balls to stop on the green when he is hitting full iron shots.

> @CamasGolf said:

> I have a competitive 8 yr old Junior:

>

> US Kids TS3 51” clubs, including the TS3 V15 driver (420 cc, 17 degree loft, 35” total length).

> Swing Speed: 63-68 miles an hour per flight scope, so say 65 as an average.

> Ave total Drive about 150. He has a very strong grip (his right hand where his palm faces up) that we are trying to change and it leads to increased spin on his driver.

>

>

> I am looking for guidance from people on information regarding the following:

>

> 1. Ball- My golfspy put out the ball data put it all the data into a spreadsheet and charted the linear equation between 115 and 85 mph swing speeds so I could look at a 65MPH swing speed. So at a 65MPH swing speed it is showing the OnCore Elixr, prov 1x, and TP5 with the top carry of 155.67, 155.75, and 153.19 respectively. Now I know this is not 100% accurate and is data based on a robot hitting balls and not a young 8 year old. With all of this said, people talk about compression and the use of a low compression ball like the Wilson Duo but the golfspy data does not support this at all. Anyone have comments or experience with the type of ball a young junior should use?

> 2. Driver- I have read a lot on here about how bad the US Kids drivers are but I am assuming that was based on the ultra light or the prior gen of the TS3. (Heavy Hitter- is that correct?) I know we need to fix his grip but I cant help but wonder if an adult driver head (2017 TM M2 because I read somewhere it is one of the lightest adult driver heads around 190 g) with a Flynn (Alto 36” total driver length) shaft might provide better distance with lower spin? I know I can get a 12 degree had with the ’17 M2 and add 2 degrees of loft with the shaft… so I wonder if that is enough loft. Any thoughts on this set up and if it would help. If not is there a better set up that people had success with for someone of this age and swing characteristics listed above?

> 3.

> Thank in advance for your help.

>

I am not in that loop anymore as my kid is 14. The Tour Series were bad as well, but not at 8 years old.

I would not take the advice of getting a ladies head for a competitive 8 year old. I would go to an adult head and put a Flynn shaft in it. A bunch of guys swear by the Cobra Junior Driver.

Thank you all for responding.

I have heard the Cobra Junior Driver was good. Anyone know have any feedback on the Ping Prod G? I would need to reshafted to get it fit for my son because even their -3 is still too big.

If he's really driving 150 at 8yo, par 4s are pretty much driver wedge all day.

I say focus less on equipment and more on techniques, but that's just me.

I'm sorry but you may not see a vast amount of improvement with going to Cobra or Taylormade from TS3.

You will however see a big difference in getting a better putter.

Thanks. And he is driving 150 (total not carry) on average. His missies are much shorter. We just got back from the US kids world championships at Mid Pines and he was on the shorter side of the kids. Some of these "8" year olds were almost 5 feet tall and where hitting irons for their second shot into a 377 yard up hill par 5. It was crazy. So if we can get 10 more yards (on average).

That is a high swing speed for an 8 year old in 51" USKids clubs and 150 yard drives are poking it out there pretty far for that age as well.

On the equipment for the driver, yes adult head (Callaway XR 16 series is a great starter and you can get it in a 13.5 degree loft head to start them off well). Female heads for your fairway and hybrid mated to a Flynn Shaft is a great choice as well. The USKids irons and wedges are really good as well.

Now you all have me second guessing his swing speed... Here is his swing... Thank you BloctonGol11. I will check out the xr 16. Maybe I stay with the TS3 driver until he moves up to the next set of clubs.

youtu.be/OQduqcacMSI

youtu.be/tQkVWN1uDeQ

> @CamasGolf said:

> Now you all have me second guessing his swing speed... Here is his swing... Thank you BloctonGol11. I will check out the xr 16. Maybe I stay with the TS3 driver until he moves up to the next set of clubs.

> youtu.be/OQduqcacMSI

> youtu.be/tQkVWN1uDeQ

>

You can use this app to measure his swing speed.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bridgestone-golf-bfit/id1205645827

From what I remember, mid 60s is pretty fast for an 8 year old.

My son (now 10) has used the following drivers since he was 8 (in no particular order).

Flynn driver with Flynn shaft

Ping Moxie driver with factory shaft.

Wilson D300 12* with ladies shaft (one of his favorites)

Tm Aeroburner 12* with senior shaft (lower launching, more roll, but didn't like it)

TM M2 (2nd gen) 10.5* with Flynn shaft, then with Ladies velox shaft, and now Accra shaft. We did side by side testing with all 5 drivers on GC2 back then, and the M2 with Flynn was heads and shoulders above the rest. We've kept the head and since simply changed shafts.

Here was an interesting discussion on driver distance this forum had a while back. https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1594270/driving-distance-ranges-for-junior-golfers/p1

M> @MikekiM said:

> My son (now 10) has used the following drivers since he was 8 (in no particular order).

> Flynn driver with Flynn shaft

> Ping Moxie driver with factory shaft.

> Wilson D300 12* with ladies shaft (one of his favorites)

> Tm Aeroburner 12* with senior shaft (lower launching, more roll, but didn't like it)

> TM M2 (2nd gen) 10.5* with Flynn shaft, then with Ladies velox shaft, and now Accra shaft. We did side by side testing with all 5 drivers on GC2 back then, and the M2 with Flynn was heads and shoulders above the rest. We've kept the head and since simply changed shafts.

>

With the TM M2 end gen, what final loft did you end of going with? I was thinking of getting the 12 degree head and adjusting up 2 more, so 14 in total.

> @CamasGolf said:

> Now you all have me second guessing his swing speed... Here is his swing... Thank you BloctonGol11. I will check out the xr 16. Maybe I stay with the TS3 driver until he moves up to the next set of clubs.

> youtu.be/OQduqcacMSI

> youtu.be/tQkVWN1uDeQ

>

I don't think any of us are doubting necessarily just saying for an 8 year old at that height you are definitely in the high range on both swing speed and average driving distance if he is averaging 150. The XR16 is very popular because it is extremely lightweight so the transition from a junior driver to it is a little easier, also not all drivers come in a 13.5 like it does which again can aid transition from a junior driver since they are lofted considerably higher than OEM adult clubs. My son saw both a length and consistency gain when he went from his TS2 driver to the XR16/Flynn shaft combo. When we redid his bag over the summer and transitioned him out of junior clubs the XR16 head was the one thing we brought over.

I never liked flynn drivers, one the sound two the misses were dead. Cobra makes a great junior driver the ping prodi g overall are good. We had the woods (driver, fairway, hybrid) but recently moved to the Titleist TS1 (have a ping prodig driver for sell). The USKG TS3 drivers with lower swing speeds there inst a ton of difference between those in OEM. Lots of good junior drivers and at 65 you won't see a ton of difference. Not true once you jump up into another speed gear.

> @BloctonGolf11 said:

> > @CamasGolf said:

> > Now you all have me second guessing his swing speed... Here is his swing... Thank you BloctonGol11. I will check out the xr 16. Maybe I stay with the TS3 driver until he moves up to the next set of clubs.

> > youtu.be/OQduqcacMSI

> > youtu.be/tQkVWN1uDeQ

> >

>

> I don't think any of us are doubting necessarily just saying for an 8 year old at that height you are definitely in the high range on both swing speed and average driving distance if he is averaging 150. The XR16 is very popular because it is extremely lightweight so the transition from a junior driver to it is a little easier, also not all drivers come in a 13.5 like it does which again can aid transition from a junior driver since they are lofted considerably higher than OEM adult clubs. My son saw both a length and consistency gain when he went from his TS2 driver to the XR16/Flynn shaft combo. When we redid his bag over the summer and transitioned him out of junior clubs the XR16 head was the one thing we brought over.

I disagree here. 150 at 8 years old is average.

> @CamasGolf said:

>

> With the TM M2 end gen, what final loft did you end of going with? I was thinking of getting the 12 degree head and adjusting up 2 more, so 14 in total.

We have it set just one degree higher. He has around a 6* AOA on his driver, so he gets the ball up in the air pretty good to begin with.

Agree with HH - 150 total at age 8 is average. I would say 150 carry at that age is on the longer side...

Not sure if this is helpful but my son used the following drivers (just turned 11):

End of age 6 until 8.5: Cobra junior bio cell (14*)

8.5 - 10: M2 (12*) - first put a TM tip on cobra shaft and then moved to a ladies tensei

10 - present: M5 (10.5*) - started with tensei senior and now in regular.

All cut to within 2” of US Kids length for height recommendation. Didn’t mess with head weights. Worked well. Found that USKG Tour driver would be similar in total distance but the OEM drivers gave much greater carry. If you are looking for more carry, go with an OEM.

At age 10+, I do think the EPICs are the longest (will beat an M5/M6 by 10 yards if properly fitted). Younger than 10, you’re not going to gain more yardage with an OEM over USKG but you will gain a lot more carry.

I would be shocked if an 8-year old was hitting an iron into a par 5 377. That would require a 220 yard drive and a ridiculous 4/5 iron. Are you talking about the first hole for boys 8? I remember my son being grouped with a Thai kid that finished top 5, I believe. He was the longest 8-year old I saw. They had trackman on one of the holes and his drive may have carried 170... and the USKG folks confirmed that it was the longest of the day. I remember asking this forum bc I was convinced he had an illegal head (it was one of those Japanese brands). My son was driving total 170-180 total at that tourney and I thought he was on the longer side.

Maybe kids have gotten longer the last three years?!?!?!

1. With respect to ball. I'd buy a sleeve from a few companies and test them. My son likes a ball that spins so he alternates between the tp5x and prov1x. It just happens that both are longest off the tee for him as well.

2. With respect to driver. The older M2 is really good for juniors. If you are on some type of budget then just opt for one of the Flynn offerings and throw it on. Don't expect to gain 50 yards with a new driver though. At 8 my son was playing the M3 driver at 10.5* with an accra shaft and loved it. We have since moved on to an M5 with a super light MRC shaft. Did the DPC Monday and drives ranged from 190-220. The cool thing if you get a flynn shaft with a TM tip, you can go to your local store and put some heads against each other. If you are interested in Callaway, you can do the same.

> @kekoa said:

> 1. With respect to ball. I'd buy a sleeve from a few companies and test them. My son likes a ball that spins so he alternates between the tp5x and prov1x. It just happens that both are longest off the tee for him as well.

> 2. With respect to driver. The older M2 is really good for juniors. If you are on some type of budget then just opt for one of the Flynn offerings and throw it on. Don't expect to gain 50 yards with a new driver though. At 8 my son was playing the M3 driver at 10.5* with an accra shaft and loved it. We have since moved on to an M5 with a super light MRC shaft. Did the DPC Monday and drives ranged from 190-220. The cool thing if you get a flynn shaft with a TM tip, you can go to your local store and put some heads against each other. If you are interested in Callaway, you can do the same.

Which Shaft?

IMO the best bang for the buck is a Cally XR16 with a F1 flex UST 440/450.

It's a great combo for a 7-8 YO that can be bought for pennies on the dollar.

> @jj9000 said:

> IMO the best bang for the buck is a Cally XR16 with a F1 flex UST 440/450.

> It's a great combo for a 7-8 YO that can be bought for pennies on the dollar.

Second this....XR16, particularly the 13.5 loft model, mated to a Flynn shaft is a great combo for a younger junior as first OEM headed driver.