England courses/Sunningdale ...

has anyone played Sunningdale, and if so, what are the restrictions, if any, for a single acquiring a tee time? ... any tips on the process of acquiring a tee time? ... i've read the website, and sometimes things are written in such a way that one is not absolutely clear about the information they've posted ... also wondering if modern equipment is too much for the courses - not sure what i'd do in that circumstance ... thinking of adding both to a trip through cornwall and wales next summer (very tentatively considered) that includes enodoc, perranporth, saunton, porthcawl and pennard ...

Talk about "not being absolutely clear about the information they've posted" ;-)

Kidding, not really kidding, aside what do you mean by modern equipment too much and subsequent circumstances? Clubs? Electric carts? GPS devices?

Like any other club over there, drop them an email and ask. They make it pretty clear Mon-Thurs is when visitors are allowed. They are run much more like the tourist trail courses up North that most non-rota courses in England, so they'll reply promptly with options.

I'm playing there next month and was given a couple options on different days.

yeah, i know, but with courses that are 6500, that's in the "every par 4 is a driver and a 9-iron" category ... there's is 6000 yards ... not sure where the cut off is, and that's not a seaside course, so there's not any guarantee of wind ... just hate to go over and play a course that doesn't allow guests to play from the tips and then you get a bunch of 400ish yard par fours where everything is a driver/wedge type of scenario, or less ... and when you look at the online booking, it's all 2-ball or higher ... mostly 3-ball ...

If you're a 300 yd, +cap then you're going to find that at pretty much every course in the UK :-)

Sunny Old day-to-day 'tips' are about 6300 IIRC, so that's still not getting you big yardage. Pennard and St. Enodoc won't either. Saunton and Porthcawl can be stretched out some though. Not played Perranporth.

I understand wanting to go through the bag in a round, I'm not a long hitter, but when the wind isn't up at Pacific Dunes for example can turn into driver/9I or less pretty quick, but these UK courses are something else and if you've enjoyed Scotland on previous trips, you should these.

In regards to their site, that's why you have to email them, as their online system doesn't show single spots, unlike some other clubs they will reply PDQ.

When you play Sunningdale they very nicely give you breakfast and a little sign in the lobby welcoming you personally. As to the Old course I would think that you could play it with a 3 wood and still get into heaps of trouble. Its a friendly place as you would expect with people walking their dogs - one member offered to take me and my bag to the train station as long as I didnt mind his mutt sitting on it in the back seat.

Just got back from my first golf trip to England. Played both Links style and heathland type courses. Our last round was Sunningdale Old. Although the fairways are still showing some of the effects from the previous year’s drought, the grounds are still visually impressive. I really don’t think you have to worry about hitting the same clubs on every hole. There are long and very short par 4’s. And if you hit a couple wayward drives into the heather, a long iron off the tee might seem the better option rather than driver.

None of the courses we played had monster yardages. In fact one of my more enjoyable rounds was at Swinley Forest. Probably the shortest course in our rotation. The heather was in full bloom ( I was told it was atypical for this time of year) which is something I had never experienced in the UK, before this trip.

Swinley Forest , Sunningdale and Walton Heath are all superb golf courses but that heather is devilish.

thanks for the replies ... have booked a flight already for the last week of may/first week of june, but have not settled on an itinerary yet ... will likely want to spend 2 days in the original b'ham, and for some reason i really, really want to play cinque ports (not many courses have a "q" in their name?) ... st georges is mats only as of Jan 1, so that's not something i want to spend time/money on ... am looking at 36 at sunningdale, then to porthcawl/pennard, then up to st annes for birkdale & st annes, back to london where i can do cinque ports, all travel by train, with walton heath a very good possibility ... i think england is actually deeper than scotland for golf, so there's about 100 courses i can't get to ... i have summers off so i can stay for 2 weeks ... or whatever i deem "necessary" ... i'm not a great golfer and do not hit it 300 yards (ball striking 5 handicapper), but i don't want to hit a driver and a 9-iron everywhere, and want to play with as much "honesty" as the courses were made for ... might take a couple of persimmon woods over with my regular set, but i haven't made that decision yet ... been a long time since i hit a persimmon wood ... want to get to porthcawl, but could stay around london and play wh and swinley instead of st annes/birkdale ... had some success with a heather in college, but that was a long time ago ...

My friends played St. George’s Hill. The Red and Blue nines I think. Another Colt design. I went sightseeing in London. They raved about it.

> @tiderider said:

> thanks for the replies ... have booked a flight already for the last week of may/first week of june, but have not settled on an itinerary yet ... will likely want to spend 2 days in the original b'ham, and for some reason i really, really want to play cinque ports (not many courses have a "q" in their name?) ... st georges is mats only as of Jan 1, so that's not something i want to spend time/money on ... am looking at 36 at sunningdale, then to porthcawl/pennard, then up to st annes for birkdale & st annes, back to london where i can do cinque ports, all travel by train, with walton heath a very good possibility ... i think england is actually deeper than scotland for golf, so there's about 100 courses i can't get to ... i have summers off so i can stay for 2 weeks ... or whatever i deem "necessary" ... i'm not a great golfer and do not hit it 300 yards (ball striking 5 handicapper), but i don't want to hit a driver and a 9-iron everywhere, and want to play with as much "honesty" as the courses were made for ... might take a couple of persimmon woods over with my regular set, but i haven't made that decision yet ... been a long time since i hit a persimmon wood ... want to get to porthcawl, but could stay around london and play wh and swinley instead of st annes/birkdale ... had some success with a heather in college, but that was a long time ago ...

Tide

If you are going to make the trip to Porthcawl/Pennard, be sure to add Southerndown.

If you going to make the trip to Birkdale/Lytham, be sure to add Formby. Think about staying in the dormy and and also playing Formby Ladies since it is inside the main course. Also, the clubhouse is a 2 minute walk to the train station so its easy to get into S'port.

Sunningdale, Swinley and St Georges Hill are to some degree quite similar courses, being Colt designs for the most part. Everybody has their favourites, but all are exceptional. That said, Sunny has 36 and it is quite convenient for the train.

You may want to consider playing Woking, a very classy course with what are probably the best set of greens among the London heathland courses. Worplesdon too is very, very good. Both are easy hits via train.

Instead of 36 at Walton Heath, certainly play The Old, but consider skipping over the M25 to play Reigate Heath, a charming 9 holer that does it right. Photos below.

I don't know if you have a predilection toward unusual courses, but there are some opportunities to play courses which are very funky. A trip up to Painswick (maybe to/from Brum and destinations north) may very well be the highlight of the trip. If you have any interest in golf architecture or its history, you will not be disappointed. Photos below.

North of Brum, in Cannock Chase, there is a gem of a course, Beau Desert. Photos below.

The quality and variety of golf in England is outstanding. Take the time to enjoy one or two courses not listed as top 100.

Ciao

4 Painswick

5 Painswick

6 Painswick

8 Painswick

Ciao

Reigate Heath

3 Reigate Heath

4 Reigate Heath

9 Reigate Heath

Ciao

1 Beau Desert

9 Beau Desert

14 Beau Desert

5 Beau Desert

Ciao

Great stuff, gringo ... thanks ... will def research those courses ... i have a map of about 20 courses and have woking on there since i remember comments you made in another thread about their greens ... reigate heath looks interesting ...

> @tiderider said:

> Great stuff, gringo ... thanks ... will def research those courses ... i have a map of about 20 courses and have woking on there since i remember comments you made in another thread about their greens ... reigate heath looks interesting ...

Are you flying into/out of Gatwick by chance? Reigate Heath works awesome for arrival/departure day golf.

1-5 & 9 are super and even 6-8 aren't bad as such. It was quite cheap too, I don't remember what I paid, except I paid after my round, as being first out they weren't up and running yet, ha.

Fair play to ya for going the public transport route - not something I'd do personally for a golf trip - but be wary of all the vagaries that come with rail travel in the UK.

Leaving aside the cluster of the schedule change last Sept, there are still strike actions, delays for too hot, delays for track obstructions, delays for staff shortages, etc... when planning your trip I'd bear all that in mind and wouldn't do any major regional shifts on the same day you plan to play.

Once you're in one of your hubs and have short commuter trips or cab rides then obvious it's not such a problem.

heathrow ... it'll be essentially 4 separate 2-3 day vacations in an area, with a full day between strictly for travel, so i hope that's enough of a cushion ... i just don't want to deal with traffic and don't mind sitting by a window with a book ...

> @tiderider said:

> heathrow ... it'll be essentially 4 separate 2-3 day vacations in an area, with a full day between strictly for travel, so i hope that's enough of a cushion ... i just don't want to deal with traffic and don't mind sitting by a window with a book ...

Gotcha. I lose track of all the threads and responses - so I wanted to note my personal bias while replying.

As you know the more you look into it, the whole country (bar a few golfing dead zones) is just full of 3 day golfing spots, so it's good fun putting something together - especially as I'm popping over in a couple weeks, I'm just finishing mine up - but for me the fun doesn't include a train timetable, as I used to hear enough over the tannoy from the good people at Thameslink, about why my train isn't arriving :-)

But if you're not booking rounds ahead of time on 'train journey days' you'll be grand and maybe fortunate enough to squeeze some in anyways... or just go straight to the pub.

> @tiderider said:

> Great stuff, gringo ... thanks ... will def research those courses ... i have a map of about 20 courses and have woking on there since i remember comments you made in another thread about their greens ... reigate heath looks interesting ...

I am meant to play Reigate on Friday. With the recent heat, the course should be rounding into superb nick. Played Beau Desert today, it was in awesome nick, partly due to recent tree removal.

Duffer....Reigate's 6-8 are alright. Although, 8 is incredibly tight. I am suprised the club hasn't made a par 3 of the 7th to avoid hitting over the road. This would also make it possible to move the 6th green away from the road. One of the things I really like about Reigate is the shared space with walkers. Courses over common land often have multiple uses which I think is a briliant concept.

Ciao

> @"El Gringo" said:

> > @tiderider said:

> > Great stuff, gringo ... thanks ... will def research those courses ... i have a map of about 20 courses and have woking on there since i remember comments you made in another thread about their greens ... reigate heath looks interesting ...

>

> I am meant to play Reigate on Friday. With the recent heat, the course should be rounding into superb nick. Played Beau Desert today, it was in awesome nick, partly due to recent tree removal.

>

> Duffer....Reigate's 6-8 are alright. Although, 8 is incredibly tight. I am suprised the club hasn't made a par 3 of the 7th to avoid hitting over the road. This would also make it possible to move the 6th green away from the road. One of the things I really like about Reigate is the shared space with walkers. Courses over common land often have multiple uses which I think is a briliant concept.

>

> Ciao

I thought I was a pedant, but I'm pretty sure alright and aren't bad is the narrowest of narrow distinctions without a difference.

Surprised you're so keen on Beau Desert - it's been a few years since I played it, but they'd have to remove an absolute shedload of trees to make a card carrying member of the chainsaw gang happy surely ;-) 5, 6, 7 is a really cool stretch, but 9 was basically a 255yd par 3 such was the lack of fairway and encroaching trees and I thought I was going through a Xmas tree farm on 12, sure made the doglegs super leggy. For sure a solid track, but I didn't spend as much time being an open mouthed gaper as I thought I might going in.

Edit: I just checked your thread on GCA in addition to the pics above, 7 has been really opened up, night and day really - pun intended. 9 still seems to be a par 3 and work on 12 still to come?

> @duffer987 said:

> > @"El Gringo" said:

> > > @tiderider said:

> > > Great stuff, gringo ... thanks ... will def research those courses ... i have a map of about 20 courses and have woking on there since i remember comments you made in another thread about their greens ... reigate heath looks interesting ...

> >

> > I am meant to play Reigate on Friday. With the recent heat, the course should be rounding into superb nick. Played Beau Desert today, it was in awesome nick, partly due to recent tree removal.

> >

> > Duffer....Reigate's 6-8 are alright. Although, 8 is incredibly tight. I am suprised the club hasn't made a par 3 of the 7th to avoid hitting over the road. This would also make it possible to move the 6th green away from the road. One of the things I really like about Reigate is the shared space with walkers. Courses over common land often have multiple uses which I think is a briliant concept.

> >

> > Ciao

>

> I thought I was a pedant, but I'm pretty sure alright and aren't bad is the narrowest of narrow distinctions without a difference.

> Surprised you're so keen on Beau Desert - it's been a few years since I played it, but they'd have to remove an absolute shedload of trees to make a card carrying member of the chainsaw gang happy surely ;-) 5, 6, 7 is a really cool stretch, but 9 was basically a 255yd par 3 such was the lack of fairway and encroaching trees and I thought I was going through a Xmas tree farm on 12, sure made the doglegs super leggy. For sure a solid track, but I didn't spend as much time being an open mouthed gaper as I thought I might going in.

>

> Edit: I just checked your thread on GCA in addition to the pics above, 7 has been really opened up, night and day really - pun intended. 9 still seems to be a par 3 and work on 12 still to come?

I have a love/hate relationship with Beau. For over 20 years I knew the course was special because of the great routing and greens, but trees eliminated much of the fun that was meant to be had. The club has been tackling the problem successfully and much more is to come. Regarding the 9th, I guess we shall have to agree to disagree. I think it is one of the best short 4s in England. The hole is basically a par 3 length at 250ish yards that would have been a bogey 4 in the old days. Its a very clever hole in that if one can't reach the green (or possibly even if he can), the best spot to be is generally behind the left bunkers despite the visuals pointing toward the right side as good. I see far more 5s than 4s and 3s combined.

Ciao

what is beau desert like now? ... i pretty much have to play there, for obvious reasons ... which means i have to think about removing either birkdale or st annes ...

Tide

I played Beau a few weeks ago and it was in great nick. While not as well cleared of trees as it should, the course is much more player friendly than previously. Whether or not it is worth the saved windshield to and from London compared to Birkdale is down to personal preference.

Ciao

> @tiderider said:

> what is beau desert like now? ... i pretty much have to play there, for obvious reasons ... which means i have to think about removing either birkdale or st annes ...

>

What are the obvious reasons? Edit - read back up thread, you're going to be hanging about there, got it.

Like the other decent Brum courses or the Nottinghamshire ones along the M1, it's a solid link up round when driving between the Southern and Northern golfing hubs, but as a traveling golfer I sure don't think it warrants an explicit visit.

Personally I'd make an effort to play somewhere like Holinwell, Huntercombe, Delamere, or Prestbury (although not played that one yet), ahead of it. IMHO Holinwell is purpose built for your specs, it can be played long, is great fun with a bunch of fantastic holes, and worthy of its various listings/rankings spot :-)

tiderider

duffer is correct in that Notts is more of a championship style course on a massive property in that it is much longer than Beau and I believe they allow visitors to use the medal tees (but check). This course length makes it much more well known than Beau Desert which is probably close to 1000 yards shorter when comparing back tees. The use of the hill on Hollinwell's boundary side of the course is excellent and there is a good variety of holes. However, the greens are no where near the interest of Beau's and for this reason I would say the two are basically in the same quality ball park which is very high. It is interesting that both courses are in the mist of trying to recover their more heathland elements. In any case, it sounds as if you want to stay in the Brum area for a few days, you could play both.

Others likely a bit more convenient to Brum, but not as good include Harborne, Blackwell, Little Aston, Whittington Heath & Edgbaston. Blackwell & Little Aston are the premier clubs and both have made great strides in recent years to improve their product. Harborne and Edgbaston are near city centre parkland sleepers and very similar to Prestbury, if not quite as classy. Both have tree issues, but Edgbaston is more plagued. Lots of people like Enville as well...two courses...both with tree issues. My personal favourite of the above is Harborne.

Ciao

> @duffer987 said:

> > @tiderider said:

> > what is beau desert like now? ... i pretty much have to play there, for obvious reasons ... which means i have to think about removing either birkdale or st annes ...

> >

>

> What are the obvious reasons? Edit - read back up thread, you're going to be hanging about there, got it.

> Like the other decent Brum courses or the Nottinghamshire ones along the M1, it's a solid link up round when driving between the Southern and Northern golfing hubs, but as a traveling golfer I sure don't think it warrants an explicit visit.

>

> Personally I'd make an effort to play somewhere like Holinwell, Huntercombe, Delamere, or Prestbury (although not played that one yet), ahead of it. IMHO Holinwell is purpose built for your specs, it can be played long, is great fun with a bunch of fantastic holes, and worthy of its various listings/rankings spot :-)

we share a 'name' ...

gringo, what if i were to forego links courses and stay in the b'ham area and london area? ... notts & beau, maybe ... sunningdale, west sussex, rye, woking, west hill ... queentown ... maybe even try swinley ... keep sunningdale as the only world top 100 course ... think west sussex is 98th or something, though ... all heathland courses ... golf gods won't frown on me, will they? ... this would prevent some travel & give me a chance to pop over into calais for a day or two if i wanted ... step foot on the continent for a bit ...

Rider

Much depends on your disposition. I would like a mix of links and heathland. Plus, cool towns such as Rye and Sandwich can be experienced. For instance, spend a few nights in Rye to play Rye and Littlestone (a much under appreciated course).

Littlestone

Because Brum is not really a tourist haven I would tend to treat the area as drive by country unless you have a specific reason to stick around. Pick up a course or two on route to wherever...which is one of the huge benefits of driving between areas.

I can easily envision a trip such as

Fly in to London and play heathland courses of your choice.

Pick up Knole Park on the way to Sandwich or Deal, spend a few nights, maybe include Princes as well. Grab the train to Calais and play Hardelot Les Pins for sure. Pick another of your choice. I'm not overly impressed with the Touquet courses, but it's easy to stay in Touquet. Ambleteuse near Wimereux is a lovely beach town. Wimereux is not a bad course either, cheaper than the Touquet options. Although if you play both Hardelot courses there may be a deal on offer and Les Dunes is a good course.

6 Knole Park

10 & 11 Hardelot Les Pins

Train back, over to Rye, catching Littlestone on the way.

Back to London for more heathland golf, maybe go cross country and pick up Royal Ashdown Forest. Piltdown too is of great interest and it is close to RAF.

14 RAF

Head for home.

Happy Hockey

i live in birmingham, alabama, so a chance to get to the original b'ham has a bit of appeal, but a chance to step onto the continent and visit france for a couple of days, along with a very nice course, will probably prevail ...

emailed rye and they responded that was a busy time for them and there is no availability ... will check again after the new year to make sure, and will check with swinley ... is there a more proper way to contact a rye or swinley, since they're "open" to visitors but don't have firm availability? ...

nice call on hardelot ... more i think about this version, the more i like it ... keep everything tucked into the south/southeast corner of england ...

Rider

The way to play Swinley is request a day when a society is visiting. Call and ask if this is a possibility. You then tee up quite early prior to the society. It also gives you a chance to have lunch and maybe play a PM game.

It's a shame about Rye. I spose that leaves more time to pick up awkward to get to courses like Pulborough. You can also add Littlestone to a Sandwich/Deal/Princes trip. It's maybe an hour away so works as day trip.

It's been mentioned previously, but Huntercombe is a cool course not too far from Oxford if you want to check both out. Or you can go to Brum and pick up Huntercombe to/from. If you do this, consider playing Painswick. It is a wild ride of a course that like it or not is extremely memorable.

4 Huntercombe

5 Painswick

Happy Hockey

I daydream about trips like this.

Once I did a trip Huntercombe, Swinley, Sunningdale, Walton Heath, Woking and then north to Royal Worlington, Felixstowe Ferry and Hadley Wood.

All of which I would do again but being me I do like to try something different so next time, whenever that is, I will do this for a week or two:

The Berkshire Red and Blue,

Worplesdon

St Georges Hill

Tandridge

The Addington

Royal Ashdown

Royal Blackheath

West Sussex

Hankley Common

North Hants

One day I will do a coastal trip down to the Royal Cinque Ports area. Another day/year.

The options for good quality golf in England are amazing. Eg going north from London you can play Gog Magog, Hunstanton, Woodhall Spa, Ganton, Alwoodley, Hollinwell, Cavendish, Sutton Coldfield, then Kington, Painswick, Minchinhampton and back. (The order might be a bit out).