Is this a penalty?

MoonlightgrmMoonlightgrm MassachusettsMembers Posts: 923 ✭✭✭✭✭

The ball is just over the back of the green. It is resting on a small bare spot with a large tuft of grass behind the ball. The player addresses the ball and begins his stroke. On the downswing the club contacts the tuft of grass, but not the golf ball. The impact with the grass clearly causes the ball to pop up slightly. The club grabs the turf for an instant but during the follow through, makes contact with the golf ball. The ball rolls onto the green and settles about 6-feet from the cup. The player who played the shot claims he only struck the ball once. One player in the foursome agreed with him. The other players feel there is a penalty in there somewhere 😀. The 6’ putt was holed. Is it a par, a double bogey, should the ball be replaced and the shot replayed. Our golf pro is out of town and a rule book is not handy. Ugh!

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Comments

  • MoonlightgrmMoonlightgrm MassachusettsMembers Posts: 923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wasn’t going to comment on my own post, but for what it’s worth, isn’t striking a ball already in motion, a penalty?

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  • oikos1oikos1 Members Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    10.1 Making a Stroke

    Purpose of Rule: Rule 10.1 covers how to make a stroke and several acts that are prohibited in doing so. A stroke is made by fairly striking at a ball with the head of a club. The fundamental challenge is to direct and control the movement of the entire club by freely swinging the club without anchoring it.
    a. Fairly Striking the Ball

    In making a stroke:

    • The player must fairly strike at the ball with the head of the club such that there is only momentary contact between the club and the ball and must not push, scrape or scoop the ball.

      • If the player’s club accidentally hits the ball more than once, there has been only one stroke and there is no penalty.
  • jvincentjvincent Members Posts: 740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 13, 2019 2:43pm #5

    @Moonlightgrm said:
    The 6’ putt was holed. Is it a par, a double bogey, should the ball be replaced and the shot replayed. Our golf pro is out of town and a rule book is not handy. Ugh!

    A few people have posted the relevant links, but I'll summarize in non-Rules english.

    1. As you described the situation, the player made a legal stroke.
    2. In the new rules there is no longer a penalty for a multiple hit during a stroke.
    3. Congrats to the player on his par.

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  • MoonlightgrmMoonlightgrm MassachusettsMembers Posts: 923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the prompt responses!

  • buckets on bucketsbuckets on buckets Members Posts: 76 ✭✭✭

    Great par! I do appreciate the rules change. Just to clarify, this has to be a normal stroke correct. If you make a deliberate attempt to hit it a second time out of air (would be very hard), that would be a penalty correct? Maybe too much of a hypothetical and even impossible...

  • 2bGood2bGood Members Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @buckets on buckets said:
    Great par! I do appreciate the rules change. Just to clarify, this has to be a normal stroke correct. If you make a deliberate attempt to hit it a second time out of air (would be very hard), that would be a penalty correct? Maybe too much of a hypothetical and even impossible...

    Yes if you are deliberately trying to hit it twice it is penalty - hitting a ball in motion.

    One of our guys has bad yips inside 6 feet and he is now trying a putting stroke with the swing thought of hitting the ball twice if he yips it. I am not sure how the ruling would go on this, as it is actually more of a swing thought to try to keep the putter head moving and he is not truly in control of what happens. You have to imagine the most horrible jabby spastic motion to get an idea of what I am talking about.

  • buckets on bucketsbuckets on buckets Members Posts: 76 ✭✭✭

    @2bGood said:

    @buckets on buckets said:
    Great par! I do appreciate the rules change. Just to clarify, this has to be a normal stroke correct. If you make a deliberate attempt to hit it a second time out of air (would be very hard), that would be a penalty correct? Maybe too much of a hypothetical and even impossible...

    Yes if you are deliberately trying to hit it twice it is penalty - hitting a ball in motion.

    One of our guys has bad yips inside 6 feet and he is now trying a putting stroke with the swing thought of hitting the ball twice if he yips it. I am not sure how the ruling would go on this, as it is actually more of a swing thought to try to keep the putter head moving and he is not truly in control of what happens. You have to imagine the most horrible jabby spastic motion to get an idea of what I am talking about.

    Lol, that’s rough! Thanks for answering

  • huckitchuckithuckitchuckit California Members Posts: 64 ✭✭

    Double hit, legal now... for some weird reason

  • KnightPSKnightPS Members Posts: 289 ✭✭✭✭

    Is it oversimplifying to say the new rule counts strokes not "hits". Assuming intent and pureness of heart.

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  • Colin LColin L Members Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @KnightPS said:
    Is it oversimplifying to say the new rule counts strokes not "hits". Assuming intent and pureness of heart.

    No change in that. Pre-2019, there was only one actual stroke to be counted. The second was a penalty stroke.

  • Colin LColin L Members Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @huckitchuckit said:
    Double hit, legal now... for some weird reason.

    Try this. The first hit is a stroke, the second is an accidental deflection of your ball. There is now no penalty if your ball is accidentally stopped or deflected by you or your equipment and so it is consistent that there is no penalty when the accidental deflection is a result of your club accidentally hitting the ball in your follow-through.

  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members Posts: 4,262 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @huckitchuckit said:
    Double hit, legal now... for some weird reason

    The reason is quite simple. In a case of a double contact the stroke may be good or may be bad, but in overwhelmingly most cases the latter. So why punish a player for playing a bad shot?

    That is how the RBs supported this change and FWIW it is a good change IMO.

  • el_b00tel_b00t Members Posts: 60 ✭✭

    No longer a penalty in the new rules for double hit. Play it as it lies.

  • huckitchuckithuckitchuckit California Members Posts: 64 ✭✭

    @Mr. Bean said:

    @huckitchuckit said:
    Double hit, legal now... for some weird reason

    The reason is quite simple. In a case of a double contact the stroke may be good or may be bad, but in overwhelmingly most cases the latter. So why punish a player for playing a bad shot?

    That is how the RBs supported this change and FWIW it is a good change IMO.

    Oh thank you so much for the explanation MR. Bean. I would have never understood it without you. :|

  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members Posts: 4,262 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 14, 2019 7:00pm #17

    @huckitchuckit said:

    @Mr. Bean said:

    @huckitchuckit said:
    Double hit, legal now... for some weird reason

    The reason is quite simple. In a case of a double contact the stroke may be good or may be bad, but in overwhelmingly most cases the latter. So why punish a player for playing a bad shot?

    That is how the RBs supported this change and FWIW it is a good change IMO.

    Oh thank you so much for the explanation MR. Bean. I would have never understood it without you. :|

    You are most welcome. Come back to me anytime you need a clarification for any kind of weird things.

    P.S. Sarcasm does not work very well on a golf forum, this has been seen on many occasions.

  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members Posts: 4,262 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 14, 2019 7:00pm #18
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members Posts: 4,262 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 14, 2019 7:01pm #19

    I sure wish there was a delete -button. Once you make an error there is no way you can rectify it.

  • NewbyNewby Members Posts: 6,840 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Mr. Bean said:
    I sure wish there was a delete -button. Once you make an error there is no way you can rectify it.

    You can edit it

  • rogolfrogolf Members Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Colin L said:

    @huckitchuckit said:
    Double hit, legal now... for some weird reason.

    Try this. The first hit is a stroke, the second is an accidental deflection of your ball. There is now no penalty if your ball is accidentally stopped or deflected by you or your equipment and so it is consistent that there is no penalty when the accidental deflection is a result of your club accidentally hitting the ball in your follow-through.

    I think this change came about to be consistent with the change to no penalty for accidentally hitting yourself or your equipment. After all, a club is equipment and the ball was deflected by equipment.

  • AugsterAugster Members Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    One swing, one stroke.

  • antipantip Members Posts: 665 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @buckets on buckets said:
    Great par! I do appreciate the rules change. Just to clarify, this has to be a normal stroke correct. If you make a deliberate attempt to hit it a second time out of air (would be very hard), that would be a penalty correct? Maybe too much of a hypothetical and even impossible...

    There were a bunch of demonstrations of this technique a couple of months ago. See the Hannah Davies one in the linked page.
    https://www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/watch-double-hit-golf-video-goes-viral-dj-brooks-break-rules

  • rogolfrogolf Members Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @antip said:

    @buckets on buckets said:
    Great par! I do appreciate the rules change. Just to clarify, this has to be a normal stroke correct. If you make a deliberate attempt to hit it a second time out of air (would be very hard), that would be a penalty correct? Maybe too much of a hypothetical and even impossible...

    There were a bunch of demonstrations of this technique a couple of months ago. See the Hannah Davies one in the linked page.
    https://www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/watch-double-hit-golf-video-goes-viral-dj-brooks-break-rules

    And this one.... takes a lot of talent to do this...

  • Colin LColin L Members Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @rogolf said:

    @Colin L said:

    @huckitchuckit said:
    Double hit, legal now... for some weird reason.

    Try this. The first hit is a stroke, the second is an accidental deflection of your ball. There is now no penalty if your ball is accidentally stopped or deflected by you or your equipment and so it is consistent that there is no penalty when the accidental deflection is a result of your club accidentally hitting the ball in your follow-through.

    I think this change came about to be consistent with the change to no penalty for accidentally hitting yourself or your equipment. After all, a club is equipment and the ball was deflected by equipment.

    I thought that's what I said!

  • antipantip Members Posts: 665 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Colin L said:

    @rogolf said:

    @Colin L said:

    @huckitchuckit said:
    Double hit, legal now... for some weird reason.

    Try this. The first hit is a stroke, the second is an accidental deflection of your ball. There is now no penalty if your ball is accidentally stopped or deflected by you or your equipment and so it is consistent that there is no penalty when the accidental deflection is a result of your club accidentally hitting the ball in your follow-through.

    I think this change came about to be consistent with the change to no penalty for accidentally hitting yourself or your equipment. After all, a club is equipment and the ball was deflected by equipment.

    I thought that's what I said!

    It's that Jock accent Colin.

  • el_b00tel_b00t Members Posts: 60 ✭✭

    @rogolf said:

    @antip said:

    @buckets on buckets said:
    Great par! I do appreciate the rules change. Just to clarify, this has to be a normal stroke correct. If you make a deliberate attempt to hit it a second time out of air (would be very hard), that would be a penalty correct? Maybe too much of a hypothetical and even impossible...

    There were a bunch of demonstrations of this technique a couple of months ago. See the Hannah Davies one in the linked page.
    https://www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/watch-double-hit-golf-video-goes-viral-dj-brooks-break-rules

    And this one.... takes a lot of talent to do this...

    Wouldn't that be two strokes though? They make contact to flop it up and then bring the club back and stroke again to hit around the tree...

  • NewbyNewby Members Posts: 6,840 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @el_b00t said:
    Wouldn't that be two strokes though? They make contact to flop it up and then bring the club back and stroke again to hit around the tree...

    Yes. It wasn't accidental.
    I reckon these videos are tongue in cheek though

  • 2bGood2bGood Members Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Newby said:

    @el_b00t said:
    Wouldn't that be two strokes though? They make contact to flop it up and then bring the club back and stroke again to hit around the tree...

    Yes. It wasn't accidental.
    I reckon these videos are tongue in cheek though

    It was humour.

  • HaleboppHalebopp Members Posts: 2,860 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Plenty of people seemed to take them very seriously at the time though.

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  • el_b00tel_b00t Members Posts: 60 ✭✭

    @2bGood said:

    @Newby said:

    @el_b00t said:
    Wouldn't that be two strokes though? They make contact to flop it up and then bring the club back and stroke again to hit around the tree...

    Yes. It wasn't accidental.
    I reckon these videos are tongue in cheek though

    It was humour.

    I figured as much.

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