Playing a "second ball." It's not that difficult, or is it?

Reffed a Carolinas Golf Association stroke play championship this week. The field, not unexpectedly, had a few players without much serious competitive experience. Anyway, what prompts this thread was a player and others in his group who didn't didn't know how to proceed. They took a guess (a wrong guess) and all holed out. Then the player decided to play a second ball.

Not knowing how to proceed generally isn't a serious offense. That's why R20.1 exists. Not knowing the protocol for a successful "second ball" can easily have a less than optimal outcome for the player. In this case, had the player known how to play a second ball, his score for the hole might have been a four or at least a five, as it was he recorded a seven.

Here's the "bumper sticker" version of the correct procedure for completing a hole with two balls:

**In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

_Before making a stroke at either ball_:

1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

2) The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count.

_Then_:

3) The player must hole out both balls.

4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=20&subrulenum=1

Of course, a player who misses out on one or more steps may luck into a good score, however, he or she can just as easily not get the score that proper use of R20.1 would have provided.

I would think most people, unless upset and nervous, would muddle through doing something much like that if faced with the need to play a second ball. But for someone who does not study the Rules (i.e. 99% of golfers I've ever met) it's possible what they "muddle through" might not meet those four requirements completely.

As long as they hole out one ball or another and are able to count the score, that's not all that bad an outcome. No different than proceeding with a penalty drop not realizing you might be able to take some obscure form of free drop.

But if they someone get tagged with a DQ after making a best-faith effort to do the second ball thing, that's a bad outcome for them and reflects a shortcoming of the Rules.

> @"North Butte" said:

>

> But if they someone get tagged with a DQ after making a best-faith effort to do the second ball thing, that's a bad outcome for them and reflects a shortcoming of the Rules.

Oh, boy.

Exactly how many “second” chances does one need? At some point shall we blame the player for not knowing the rules of the game they’ve chosen?

> @"North Butte" said:

> I would think most people, unless upset and nervous, would muddle through doing something much like that if faced with the need to play a second ball. But for someone who does not study the Rules (i.e. 99% of golfers I've ever met) it's possible what they "muddle through" might not meet those four requirements completely.

>

>** As long as they hole out one ball or another and are able to count the score, that's not all that bad an outcome. No different than proceeding with a penalty drop not realizing you might be able to take some obscure form of free drop.**

>

> But if they someone get tagged with a DQ after making a best-faith effort to do the second ball thing, that's a bad outcome for them and reflects a shortcoming of the Rules.

The player would have disagreed with you. He was decidedly unhappy that his score was a seven and not a four or five. nb He later apologized to the Committee for losing his rag at the scoring table and acknowledged his incomplete understanding of R20.1.

> @"North Butte" said:

> But if they someone get tagged with a DQ after making a best-faith effort to do the second ball thing, that's a bad outcome for them and reflects a shortcoming of the Rules.

Playing from a wrong place (the serious breach version) with ONE golf ball, and failing to correct, results in DQ. Doing the same thing with TWO golf balls rightfully ends in the same result.

Also, playing two golf balls and failing to tell the committee about it is a pretty big deal. DQ. Imagine the chaos if folks could just drop a second ball, in competition, and play it in, too, without telling anyone about it.

Other than that, I'm not sure how someone could make a good-faith effort and receive a DQ.

> @"sui generis" said:

> **In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

>

> There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

>

> _Before making a stroke at either ball_:

>

> 1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

> 2) _The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count._

>

> _Then_:

>

> 3) The player must hole out both balls.

> 4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

>

Actually, the player does not need to announce which ball he wishes to count. Here are the relevant bullet-points of the rule:

>* The player should choose which ball will count if the Rules allow the procedure used for that ball, by announcing that choice to his or her marker or to another player before making a stroke.

>* If the player does not choose in time, the ball played first is treated as the ball chosen by default.

But I agree. The average player will have difficulty following the rule to stay out of trouble.

> @Axiom said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

>

> > **In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

> >

> > There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

> >

> > _Before making a stroke at either ball_:

> >

> > 1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

> > 2) _The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count._

> >

> > _Then_:

> >

> > 3) The player must hole out both balls.

> > 4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

> >

>** Actually, the player does not need to announce which ball he wishes to count.** Here are the relevant bullet-points of the rule:

> >* The player should choose which ball will count if the Rules allow the procedure used for that ball, by announcing that choice to his or her marker or to another player before making a stroke.

>

> >* If the player does not choose in time, the ball played first is treated as the ball chosen by default.

> But I agree. The average player will have difficulty following the rule to stay out of trouble.

You're correct, if the player doesn't want the best outcome, he need not "choose," but who wouldn't want the best outcome?

One way to think of the "musts" is to say to oneself, there are two things I have to say and two things I have to do.

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Axiom said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> >

> > > **In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

> > >

> > > There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

> > >

> > > _Before making a stroke at either ball_:

> > >

> > > 1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

> > > 2) _The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count._

> > >

> > > _Then_:

> > >

> > > 3) The player must hole out both balls.

> > > 4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

> > >

> >** Actually, the player does not need to announce which ball he wishes to count.** Here are the relevant bullet-points of the rule:

> > >* The player should choose which ball will count if the Rules allow the procedure used for that ball, by announcing that choice to his or her marker or to another player before making a stroke.

> >

> > >* If the player does not choose in time, the ball played first is treated as the ball chosen by default.

> > But I agree. The average player will have difficulty following the rule to stay out of trouble.

>

> You're correct, if the player doesn't want the best outcome, he need not "choose," but who wouldn't want the best outcome?

>

> One way to think of the "musts" is to say to oneself, there are two things I have to say and two things I have to do.

>

>

And 2019 brings a new little quirk that enhances choice further. No longer do you need to choose which one to count "before taking further action", the time limit now is "before making a stroke". Which means in 2019 you can drop the second ball and see where it finishes before you choose your preferred counter.

One of the quirkiest aspects of the second ball thing is that at times it can get you an peculair advantage. As an offshoot of 20.1c(3)/3, a muddy ball found in the general area, which the player questions as possibly being GUR, may be lifted, cleaned and dropped in the appropriate relief area and then a new, clean ball placed in the original position in the potentially GUR area. Two perfectly clean balls end up being played: a clear, odd advantage if the area is later determined to be non-GUR.

Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.

It's one of those things that if you don't use it, you're not likely to remember it or be comfortable with it when your not comfortable with something you aren't going to use it. I e only used it once when I had a ball laying near the OB area and the two stakes were visually obstructed so you could not tell exactly where the OB was in relation to the ball.

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Axiom said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> >

> > > **In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

> > >

> > > There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

> > >

> > > _Before making a stroke at either ball_:

> > >

> > > 1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

> > > 2) _The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count._

> > >

> > > _Then_:

> > >

> > > 3) The player must hole out both balls.

> > > 4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

> > >

> >** Actually, the player does not need to announce which ball he wishes to count.** Here are the relevant bullet-points of the rule:

> > >* The player should choose which ball will count if the Rules allow the procedure used for that ball, by announcing that choice to his or her marker or to another player before making a stroke.

> >

> > >* If the player does not choose in time, the ball played first is treated as the ball chosen by default.

> > But I agree. The average player will have difficulty following the rule to stay out of trouble.

>

> You're correct, if the player doesn't want the best outcome, he need not "choose," but who wouldn't want the best outcome?

>

How can you tell in advance which of the two balls gives the best outcome?

I have always wondered why the player needs or should declare which score he wishes to count because IMO he already decides that when he chooses to play a second ball. I would make it a default in the Rules, just for simplicity.

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> It's one of those things that if you don't use it, you're not likely to remember it or be comfortable with it when your not comfortable with something you aren't going to use it. I e only used it once when I had a ball laying near the OB area and the two stakes were visually obstructed so you could not tell exactly where the OB was in relation to the ball.

Some regional golf associations print the procedure on the back of their competition scorecards. (Carolinas Golf Association doesn't and, thus far, I haven't succeeded in persuading them to consider it.)

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @Axiom said:

> > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > >

> > > > **In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

> > > >

> > > > There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

> > > >

> > > > _Before making a stroke at either ball_:

> > > >

> > > > 1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

> > > > 2) _The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count._

> > > >

> > > > _Then_:

> > > >

> > > > 3) The player must hole out both balls.

> > > > 4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

> > > >

> > >** Actually, the player does not need to announce which ball he wishes to count.** Here are the relevant bullet-points of the rule:

> > > >* The player should choose which ball will count if the Rules allow the procedure used for that ball, by announcing that choice to his or her marker or to another player before making a stroke.

> > >

> > > >* If the player does not choose in time, the ball played first is treated as the ball chosen by default.

> > > But I agree. The average player will have difficulty following the rule to stay out of trouble.

> >

> > You're correct, if the player doesn't want the best outcome, he need not "choose," but who wouldn't want the best outcome?

> >

> How can you tell in advance which of the two balls gives the best outcome?

>

> I have always wondered why the player needs or should declare which score he wishes to count because IMO he already decides that when he chooses to play a second ball. I would make it a default in the Rules, just for simplicity.

That would be ideal but I think things would really get complicated in the rules.

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > @Axiom said:

> > > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > >

> > > > > **In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

> > > > >

> > > > > There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

> > > > >

> > > > > _Before making a stroke at either ball_:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

> > > > > 2) _The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count._

> > > > >

> > > > > _Then_:

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) The player must hole out both balls.

> > > > > 4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

> > > > >

> > > >** Actually, the player does not need to announce which ball he wishes to count.** Here are the relevant bullet-points of the rule:

> > > > >* The player should choose which ball will count if the Rules allow the procedure used for that ball, by announcing that choice to his or her marker or to another player before making a stroke.

> > > >

> > > > >* If the player does not choose in time, the ball played first is treated as the ball chosen by default.

> > > > But I agree. The average player will have difficulty following the rule to stay out of trouble.

> > >

> > > You're correct, if the player doesn't want the best outcome, he need not "choose," but who wouldn't want the best outcome?

> > >

> > How can you tell in advance which of the two balls gives the best outcome?

> >

> > I have always wondered why the player needs or should declare which score he wishes to count because IMO he already decides that when he chooses to play a second ball. I would make it a default in the Rules, just for simplicity.

>

> That would be ideal but I think things would really get complicated in the rules.

>

How come?

'If a player chooses to play a second ball it is that second ball that counts as his score provided that ball is played according to the Rules.'

That's not quite right. If the player states which ball he wants to count, then that ball counts as his score if the rules allow the procedure followed. Whether it is his first or second ball doesn't come into it. If he does not state which ball is to count, then it is the first ball **played** which is the counting score provided the procedure followed is allowed by the rules. He can play in either order.

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @Axiom said:

> > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > >

> > > > **In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

> > > >

> > > > There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

> > > >

> > > > _Before making a stroke at either ball_:

> > > >

> > > > 1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

> > > > 2) _The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count._

> > > >

> > > > _Then_:

> > > >

> > > > 3) The player must hole out both balls.

> > > > 4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

> > > >

> > >** Actually, the player does not need to announce which ball he wishes to count.** Here are the relevant bullet-points of the rule:

> > > >* The player should choose which ball will count if the Rules allow the procedure used for that ball, by announcing that choice to his or her marker or to another player before making a stroke.

> > >

> > > >* If the player does not choose in time, the ball played first is treated as the ball chosen by default.

> > > But I agree. The average player will have difficulty following the rule to stay out of trouble.

> >

> > You're correct, if the player doesn't want the best outcome, he need not "choose," but who wouldn't want the best outcome?

> >

> How can you tell in advance which of the two balls gives the best outcome?

>

> I have always wondered why the player needs or should declare which score he wishes to count because IMO he already decides that when he chooses to play a second ball. I would make it a default in the Rules, just for simplicity.

Here's a thought, Mr Bean.

Player's ball lies in a flower bed. Other players in his group insist that the player may not play the ball and must take relief. Player wishes for some reason to play the ball from the flower bed. (No one can be bothered to read the competition's Local Rules printed on the front side of the hole location sheet.)

Player declares his intent to play a second ball and wishes to count the ball in the flower bed. Scores a four with the flower bed ball and a five with the second ball. Committee says that no Local Rule prohibits play from flower beds. In the 2019 Rules world the player gets a four. In Mr Bean's world player gets a five.

Or perhaps, I misunderstand your proposal.

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > @Axiom said:

> > > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > >

> > > > > **In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

> > > > >

> > > > > There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

> > > > >

> > > > > _Before making a stroke at either ball_:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

> > > > > 2) _The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count._

> > > > >

> > > > > _Then_:

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) The player must hole out both balls.

> > > > > 4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

> > > > >

> > > >** Actually, the player does not need to announce which ball he wishes to count.** Here are the relevant bullet-points of the rule:

> > > > >* The player should choose which ball will count if the Rules allow the procedure used for that ball, by announcing that choice to his or her marker or to another player before making a stroke.

> > > >

> > > > >* If the player does not choose in time, the ball played first is treated as the ball chosen by default.

> > > > But I agree. The average player will have difficulty following the rule to stay out of trouble.

> > >

> > > You're correct, if the player doesn't want the best outcome, he need not "choose," but who wouldn't want the best outcome?

> > >

> > How can you tell in advance which of the two balls gives the best outcome?

> >

> > I have always wondered why the player needs or should declare which score he wishes to count because IMO he already decides that when he chooses to play a second ball. I would make it a default in the Rules, just for simplicity.

>

> Here's a thought, Mr Bean.

>

> Player's ball lies in a flower bed. Other players in his group insist that the player may not play the ball and must take relief. Player wishes for some reason to play the ball from the flower bed. (No one can be bothered to read the competition's Local Rules printed on the front side of the hole location sheet.)

>

> Player declares his intent to play a second ball and wishes to count the ball in the flower bed. Scores a four with the flower bed ball and a five with the second ball. Committee says that no Local Rule prohibits play from flower beds. In the 2019 Rules world the player gets a four. In Mr Bean's world player gets a five.

>

> Or perhaps, I misunderstand your proposal.

Yes, you misunderstood it but no problem, I'll write the long version.

The way I would like to see this Rule written is that if the player says nothing then the 2nd ball is to count by default. However, should the player for some reason want the original ball to count THEN he would have to declare so. After all, in the vast majority of cases the player wishes to get a relief so this would facilitate understanding the Rule and playing by it correctly.

But would you care to clarify what you meant by 'wanting the best outcome' ? IMO it is quite often impossible to know which ball is to give the best outcome as they both need yet to be holed with maybe several strokes.

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > > @Axiom said:

> > > > > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > > **In Stroke Play Only, a Player Who Is Uncertain about the Correct Procedure May Complete the Hole with Two Balls** (See Rule 20.1c(3))

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There are four “musts” which need to be met if the player is to get the best outcome.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > _Before making a stroke at either ball_:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

> > > > > > 2) _The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count._

> > > > > >

> > > > > > _Then_:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3) The player must hole out both balls.

> > > > > > 4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

> > > > > >

> > > > >** Actually, the player does not need to announce which ball he wishes to count.** Here are the relevant bullet-points of the rule:

> > > > > >* The player should choose which ball will count if the Rules allow the procedure used for that ball, by announcing that choice to his or her marker or to another player before making a stroke.

> > > > >

> > > > > >* If the player does not choose in time, the ball played first is treated as the ball chosen by default.

> > > > > But I agree. The average player will have difficulty following the rule to stay out of trouble.

> > > >

> > > > You're correct, if the player doesn't want the best outcome, he need not "choose," but who wouldn't want the best outcome?

> > > >

> > > How can you tell in advance which of the two balls gives the best outcome?

> > >

> > > I have always wondered why the player needs or should declare which score he wishes to count because IMO he already decides that when he chooses to play a second ball. I would make it a default in the Rules, just for simplicity.

> >

> > Here's a thought, Mr Bean.

> >

> > Player's ball lies in a flower bed. Other players in his group insist that the player may not play the ball and must take relief. Player wishes for some reason to play the ball from the flower bed. (No one can be bothered to read the competition's Local Rules printed on the front side of the hole location sheet.)

> >

> > Player declares his intent to play a second ball and wishes to count the ball in the flower bed. Scores a four with the flower bed ball and a five with the second ball. Committee says that no Local Rule prohibits play from flower beds. In the 2019 Rules world the player gets a four. In Mr Bean's world player gets a five.

> >

> > Or perhaps, I misunderstand your proposal.

>

> Yes, you misunderstood it but no problem, I'll write the long version.

>

> The way I would like to see this Rule written is that if the player says nothing then the 2nd ball is to count by default. However, should the player for some reason want the original ball to count THEN he would have to declare so. After all, in the vast majority of cases the player wishes to get a relief so this would facilitate understanding the Rule and playing by it correctly.

>

> But would you care to clarify what you meant by 'wanting the best outcome' ? IMO it is quite often impossible to know which ball is to give the best outcome as they both need yet to be holed with maybe several strokes.

Wanting the best outcome simply means that the Rule allows the player to make a choice before play, rather than by not following the procedure the Committee makes the choice. As we know, the Rules generally frown upon the player being allowed to choose between balls when, after some strokes have been played, one or the other might be more advantageous.

@"Mr. Bean" , with no announcement, it already defaults to the first ball played. Why is defaulting to the second ball and simpler?

Playing two balls doesn’t require them to be played in any particular order, and I’d imagine there is a drop involved in many of these scenarios....which one is the “original” if the player isn’t even sure which of the two options is correct?

> @HitEmTrue said:

> @"Mr. Bean" , with no announcement, it already defaults to the first ball played. Why is defaulting to the second ball and simpler?

>

> Playing two balls doesn’t require them to be played in any particular order, and I’d imagine there is a drop involved in many of these scenarios....which one is the “original” if the player isn’t even sure which of the two options is correct?

>

>

IMO it is simpler to think that it is that ball you take the relief with that counts. That way the order of playing those two balls would have no meaning. After all, in my experience in the vast majority of cases the player is unsure whether there is a free relief or not and hopes to get a better score with the ball getting relief.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that you may be confusing 1st and 2nd ball in the playing order. As the 2nd ball I mean the 'second' ball as described in the Rules, not the one that is played after the 1st one.

I an not sure if I understand your point about original ball. Isn't that the one that is played as it lies? The player does not have to know which option is the correct one. If he knew he would not be playing a second ball, would he?

> @"Colin L" said:

> That's not quite right. If the player states which ball he wants to count, then that ball counts as his score if the rules allow the procedure followed. Whether it is his first or second ball doesn't come into it. If he does not state which ball is to count, then it is the first ball **played** which is the counting score provided the procedure followed is allowed by the rules. He can play in either order.

Oh my, this kind of discussion is just too difficult...

Colin, the text I wrote was just a fictional proposal to the wording in the Rules created by myself. Also when I talk about a second ball that has nothing to do with the playing order but that is the 'other' ball he plays because of the uncertainty how to proceed.

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

>

> I an not sure if I understand your point about original ball. Isn't that the one that is played as it lies? The player does not have to know which option is the correct one. If he knew he would not be playing a second ball, would he?

I’m saying that there’s great likelihood the player is already going to drop a ball, but isn’t sure about the procedure and where to drop. So he decides to do it twice. Which one is the original? The rule for playing two balls is pretty straightforward as it is.

> @HitEmTrue said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> >

> > I an not sure if I understand your point about original ball. Isn't that the one that is played as it lies? The player does not have to know which option is the correct one. If he knew he would not be playing a second ball, would he?

>

> I’m saying that there’s great likelihood the player is already going to drop a ball, but isn’t sure about the procedure and where to drop. So he decides to do it twice. Which one is the original? The rule for playing two balls is pretty straightforward as it is.

>

Do what twice? Drop two balls? I wonder how often that happens. In such a case it would be even wiser for the player to choose the ball before making a stroke at either of them.

This Rule is straightforward to those who know it thoroughly. Over the years I have found that this is one of the hardest Rules for an Average Joe to comprehend and it is certainly more clear now than it was last year, but still it is difficult for people not knowing the Rules very well.

@"Mr. Bean" , why are you assuming that the “other” ball is the one that someone hopes he gets to play? Maybe he hopes to play he original...or, again, is dropping where he thinks he should drop, and someone else disagrees, so he drops somewhere else and plays two balls, to be safe.

By NOT allowing the player to announce which ball he wishes to play, I believe you are complicating matters, not simplifying them. There is already a default for when no announcement is made.

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @"Colin L" said:

> > That's not quite right. If the player states which ball he wants to count, then that ball counts as his score if the rules allow the procedure followed. Whether it is his first or second ball doesn't come into it. If he does not state which ball is to count, then it is the first ball **played** which is the counting score provided the procedure followed is allowed by the rules. He can play in either order.

>

> Oh my, this kind of discussion is just too difficult...

>

> Colin, the text I wrote was just a fictional proposal to the wording in the Rules created by myself. Also when I talk about a second ball that has nothing to do with the playing order but that is the 'other' ball he plays because of the uncertainty how to proceed.

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @"Colin L" said:

> > That's not quite right. If the player states which ball he wants to count, then that ball counts as his score if the rules allow the procedure followed. Whether it is his first or second ball doesn't come into it. If he does not state which ball is to count, then it is the first ball **played** which is the counting score provided the procedure followed is allowed by the rules. He can play in either order.

>

> Oh my, this kind of discussion is just too difficult...

>

> Colin, the text I wrote was just a fictional proposal to the wording in the Rules created by myself. Also when I talk about a second ball that has nothing to do with the playing order but that is the 'other' ball he plays because of the uncertainty how to proceed.

I see. But I didn’t see previously because it wasn’t clear that you were writing fiction. I don’t understand the need. The rule as re-written seems clear enough.

> @HitEmTrue said:

> @"Mr. Bean" , why are you assuming that the “other” ball is the one that someone hopes he gets to play? Maybe he hopes to play he original...or, again, is dropping where he thinks he should drop, and someone else disagrees, so he drops somewhere else and plays two balls, to be safe.

>

> By NOT allowing the player to announce which ball he wishes to play, I believe you are complicating matters, not simplifying them. There is already a default for when no announcement is made.

I have not said that the player should NOT be allowed to announce the ball he wishes to play, you have made that up yourself. Please read my posts more carefully.

And why am I assuming the 'other' ball is the one? Well, from my golfing and refereeing experience from the past 27 years.

All I am saying here is what I think would be easier to master for an Average Joe. I have no need to convince you or anyone else to accept my view. End of story.

I can see this truly must be "...not that difficult..." since it's perfectly clear to everyone after just 27 replies.

> @"North Butte" said:

> I can see this truly must be "...not that difficult..." since it's perfectly clear to everyone after just 27 replies.

Seems it's not that difficult, say two things, do two things:

_Before making a stroke at either ball_:

1) The player must announce his or her intent to play a second ball.

2) The player must announce which ball he or she wishes to count.

_Then_:

3) The player must hole out both balls.

4) The player must report the facts to the Committee before returning the scorecard.

You're describing four specific things that have to be done at two specific times just to fully comply WITH THIS ONE RULE.

That's the reason "it's not that difficult [to take full advantage of the Rules]" is untrue for 99% of the golfers in the world. It's four things for this one, two things for another, three for some other...and there's a whole book full of Rules.

So yeah, if golf only had one Rule and this was it then most golfers would get pretty familiar with it. But this is drop in the bucket.