Best Driver of 2019 | Full Article _HERE_ | Discussion Thread _HERE_

Club competition mindset - the point in them?

HonestPlayerHonestPlayer Members Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭
edited Aug 18, 2019 11:16pm in Rules of Golf and Etiquette #1

I'll say first - I realise clubs can be different - even more so if they are based in different states or countries. I take that onboard too that this might be impossible to answer or might be universal, some will know better than me.

I've never played in a club tournament at my club. I only took up golf again for the first time in years a couple of months back. I don't wish to make friends or acquaintances currently. If this is a problem of course I won't intrude on the social etiquette at play. It's a traditional type club, most the members are 50 - 70 years old. Some in the 40-50 range. From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

How I'd approach the tournament - enjoying and improving at golf . If anyone could tell me - are club competitions/events about getting better, enjoying golf or are they really about making friends and acquaintances ? If it's just a social thing I will stay a mile away - especially as most of these competitions almost everyone in them will be 15+ years my senior. I wouldn't want to be intruding either being so much younger than all the competition participants. Of course I'd have good etiquette, be civil and polite like I always am. If we aren't sure I suppose I could actually ask the club direct thoughts on the matter when I get around to it - I need to improve a bit first, but was looking for a heads up about it here first.

Thoughts appreciated.

HP

Most birdies in a round in 2019 - 3
Holes in ones career - 1
Split Grip Birdie COUNTER - 1

Comments

  • SawgrassSawgrass Members Posts: 15,261 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    If I were you I’d figure out whether or not I wished to compete, and not worry about the age of potential competitors. You need to do nothing more than play by the rules, no friendships required.

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    We cant' really have any idea about the culture at your club or how events are run or what the players feel about them. The tournament has a format, if you want to play in that format then sign up and have at it. Totally up to you to have fun, "improve" (whatever that means to you) or even keep it simple and just treat it as a game you try your best to win.

    At my club's championship, some guys are motivated to beat the brains out of the rest of the field from sheer competitive urge. Others just sign up for every event offered because they like to play golf. A few will even sign up because the entry fee is cheaper than paying to play somewhere else on the days when the tournament is going on. As Sawgrass says, as long as they all play by the Rules it all works out no matter who you are paired up with.

    I know of at least one guy who has won our Club Championship a couple times over the years who is a Ben Hogan type. He is most certainly NOT out there to make friends of socialize. He's not unpleasant to play with by any means but in a competition he keeps his head down, plays his ball, does his thing and other than double-checking scores you might not exchange 10 words with him during the round.

    But maybe your club is different and people expect you to socialize as you play, that would be highly unusual for formal club tournament events. But club cultures do vary. Try it one time and you'll know the real answer, I suppose.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • SNIPERBBBSNIPERBBB Hit Ball Hard SE OhioMembers Posts: 2,773 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    You might do some BS'ing while the group in front of you is searching for balls but usually there isnt a lot of talk during the round. After the rounds perhaps.

    2016 M1 9.5 tuned to 7.5
    TM r15 3 wood
    Adams Idea Pro 2h/4h
    Mizuno JPX 900 HM 5-PW
    Vokey SM7 48* F Grind
    Vokey SM7 54* F Grind
    Vokey SM7 58* M Grind
  • Bonneville85308Bonneville85308 Members Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 19, 2019 3:56am #5

    If you are playing in a Club Championship type of tournament, the people I've played with in them are generally serious, focused, with little chit chat unless there is a wait or something. We may have had lunch together with the two guys from the other match in the foursome afterwards, but that was it.
    If you are playing in the "Season Opening ABCD Breakfast Scramble", then yes, people are going to be social, friendly, and perhaps interested in meeting some members they don't usually play with.
    Perhaps ask your club pro about which events involve more serious/competitive gross score play than the others. Most clubs I've been a member of have offered a pretty wide variety of tournament formats to capture the interest of the various factions of the membership.
    I would caution against judging your fellow members by their age before you've even met them. Two of my best friends in golf and life in general are people who I met playing at a club when I was in my mid/late 20s and they were in their late 50s/early 60s. I actually enjoyed playing with them a heck of a lot more than the few club members my own age.

  • Bingo1976Bingo1976 Members Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I echo the above. I have made some great friends a lot older than me from golf - being older means nothing when it comes to personality and you may even learn something from them. As regards competition standards, I would expect people to be a bit more relaxed at the monthly medal than the annual club competition. I usually play it by ear depending on the group I am in - some people like to talk, some like to focus - you should respect your FCs and try and pick up on the group vibe.
    To my mind though, competitive golf is real golf - everything else is just practice (albeit practice can be a lot more fun and less stressful!)

    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Srixon z565 Speeder 569 Evo IV SR[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]TaylorMade RBZ 3 wood, [/font][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Matrix Ozik R[/font]
    [font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"]Srixon U65 2 iron, Miyazaki S[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Cobra F6 Hybrid 22 degrees RedTie S[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Srixon z945 5-pw w/ DG s200[/font]
    [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Miura Y 51 and K 56 DG Spinner, Yururi Raw 61 KBS [/font][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]HiRev[/font]
    [font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"]Odyssey O-Works Black 34"[/font]
  • AugsterAugster Members Posts: 4,397 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess I don’t understand the ageism. Golf is golf. Harvey Penick, “And if you play golf, you’re my friend.”

    Some of my favorite guys to play with are 20+ years older than me. My friend Billy Bob just turned 70. I’m 47. We go on road trips and golf vacations together. Get a lot of weird looks, but never on the course. Golfing is golfing, regardless of age. 99% of people that play enough golf to want to join a club are good people.

  • HonestPlayerHonestPlayer Members Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 19, 2019 7:36am #8

    @Augster said:
    I guess I don’t understand the ageism. Golf is golf. Harvey Penick, “And if you play golf, you’re my friend.”

    Some of my favorite guys to play with are 20+ years older than me. My friend Billy Bob just turned 70. I’m 47. We go on road trips and golf vacations together. Get a lot of weird looks, but never on the course. Golfing is golfing, regardless of age. 99% of people that play enough golf to want to join a club are good people.

    Interesting, maybe they won't care about me playing in club comps as a non scratch golf younger member then. I might ask though to be sure about the club dynamic - don't want to rock the boat completely.

    Most birdies in a round in 2019 - 3
    Holes in ones career - 1
    Split Grip Birdie COUNTER - 1

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 19, 2019 10:45am #9

    Most clubs will have flights for various levels of players. At my club there's the "championship flight" from the way-back tees and it's all the best players. Handicaps from +3 down to maybe a 4 hcp. Then like three other flights playing off the regular men's tees. With my handicap around 17 I'm in the worst flight of those three, playing with other guys in the 14-and-up range.

    That's why nobody really minds who signs up to play. If you're a double-digit handicapper none of the scratch guys are going to be playing in the same flight with you anyway. It's like several little tournaments inside the one big event.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @Augster said:
    I guess I don’t understand the ageism. Golf is golf. Harvey Penick, “And if you play golf, you’re my friend.”

    Some of my favorite guys to play with are 20+ years older than me. My friend Billy Bob just turned 70. I’m 47. We go on road trips and golf vacations together. Get a lot of weird looks, but never on the course. Golfing is golfing, regardless of age. 99% of people that play enough golf to want to join a club are good people.

    Interesting, maybe they won't care about me playing in club comps as a non scratch golf younger member then. I might ask though to be sure about the club dynamic - don't want to rock the boat completely.

    You are thinking way too hard about this. You are not going to be the only non scratch golfer out there.

    run of the mill driver with stock shaft
    a couple of outdated hybrids
    shovel-ier shovels
    wedges from same shovel company
    some putter with a dead insert and
    a hideous grip
  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    The one thing that's probably not going to work is this...

    @HonestPlayer said:
    From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

    If you're a double-digit handicapper you are almost certainly going to be in flighted and/or handicapped events. There's not much opportunity (nor does there IMO need to be much opportunity) for someone shooting in the 80's and 90's to play in straight-up tournaments against scratch or near-scratch players.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into the quoted part but it sounds like possibly you're a not very good player looking for an opportunity to play against and learn from the best players in your club. Unless they are friends of yours, that kind of thing probably won't be welcomed. The scratch players tend to have their games (or flights in flighted events) and the 80's and 90's shooters have theirs. At most clubs, anyway.

    If you present yourself as not wanting to play in flighted and/or handicapped tournaments and also not wanting to socialize or make friends, pardon me for being blunt, but it's hard to see exactly what you have to offer potential playing partners.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • HonestPlayerHonestPlayer Members Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 19, 2019 11:58am #12

    @North Butte said:
    The one thing that's probably not going to work is this...

    @HonestPlayer said:
    From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

    If you're a double-digit handicapper you are almost certainly going to be in flighted and/or handicapped events. There's not much opportunity (nor does there IMO need to be much opportunity) for someone shooting in the 80's and 90's to play in straight-up tournaments against scratch or near-scratch players.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into the quoted part but it sounds like possibly you're a not very good player looking for an opportunity to play against and learn from the best players in your club. Unless they are friends of yours, that kind of thing probably won't be welcomed. The scratch players tend to have their games (or flights in flighted events) and the 80's and 90's shooters have theirs. At most clubs, anyway.

    If you present yourself as not wanting to play in flighted and/or handicapped tournaments and also not wanting to socialize or make friends, pardon me for being blunt, but it's hard to see exactly what you have to offer potential playing partners.

    Golf is about the score. Net competitions are pointless. They are an everyone's a winner attitude and award weak players with wins they don't deserve and haven't earned in my book.

    Every man is there for himself to learn and improve himself in a competitive environment. Are you suggesting that in professional tournaments that players should be offering something to playing partners? That makes no sense. It's a competition, not round with friends. I'm not offering counselling and life advice to other players during the round - I'm not a qualified therapist anyway - if someone wanted life advice from me, I'm old enough to know better that it isn't my business or place to give it - they would need to seek a specialist adviser in that area - unless I was an expert on the topic I wouldn't be helping out. Maybe you are the type of person that likes giving unsolicited advice all the time. That's the impression you are giving me by being offended I'm not "offering" something to playing partners - offering what? Being polite and trying my best on the course is a good thing - what I'd want from a playing partner during a practice round or a competition. What I offer is an extra player in the competition, makes it more of a competition the more players you have. If you and I start a competition tomorrow it means nothing if I beat you. The pressure and occasion is different to having 100 entries, so don't act like each entry to a club competition isn't valuable because it is.

    In terms of making friends, I don't have time for new ones in my life. That don't mean I won't always be polite to people at the club I made that clear above.

    Most birdies in a round in 2019 - 3
    Holes in ones career - 1
    Split Grip Birdie COUNTER - 1

  • HonestPlayerHonestPlayer Members Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭

    @Vindog said:

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @Augster said:
    I guess I don’t understand the ageism. Golf is golf. Harvey Penick, “And if you play golf, you’re my friend.”

    Some of my favorite guys to play with are 20+ years older than me. My friend Billy Bob just turned 70. I’m 47. We go on road trips and golf vacations together. Get a lot of weird looks, but never on the course. Golfing is golfing, regardless of age. 99% of people that play enough golf to want to join a club are good people.

    Interesting, maybe they won't care about me playing in club comps as a non scratch golf younger member then. I might ask though to be sure about the club dynamic - don't want to rock the boat completely.

    You are thinking way too hard about this. You are not going to be the only non scratch golfer out there.

    Just to give you an idea of the standard of golf at the club - they held a tournament earlier in the year and only 2 players broke 81 or better from the competition tees out of a field of about 70 players or so. Most of the field shoots between 85 and 93 in a tournament (par 72). I don't play to win. I wouldn't turn up if I was going to shoot level par if I wasn't welcome and therefore not going to enjoy it. If I was going to tear up the course with -5 or better I'd enter anyways but that's not happening haha - if that was the case I'd be a pro. I play to improve. A great round for me in competition would be around about 80, maybe less. If I learned all the greens then at a push I could get down to shooting 75 eventually on a good day I think. This isn't about that. I admit it's a difficult course to play if your course management isn't tight, but the standard of golf isn't the strongest out there by any stretch.

    Most birdies in a round in 2019 - 3
    Holes in ones career - 1
    Split Grip Birdie COUNTER - 1

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @North Butte said:
    The one thing that's probably not going to work is this...

    @HonestPlayer said:
    From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

    If you're a double-digit handicapper you are almost certainly going to be in flighted and/or handicapped events. There's not much opportunity (nor does there IMO need to be much opportunity) for someone shooting in the 80's and 90's to play in straight-up tournaments against scratch or near-scratch players.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into the quoted part but it sounds like possibly you're a not very good player looking for an opportunity to play against and learn from the best players in your club. Unless they are friends of yours, that kind of thing probably won't be welcomed. The scratch players tend to have their games (or flights in flighted events) and the 80's and 90's shooters have theirs. At most clubs, anyway.

    If you present yourself as not wanting to play in flighted and/or handicapped tournaments and also not wanting to socialize or make friends, pardon me for being blunt, but it's hard to see exactly what you have to offer potential playing partners.

    Golf is about the score. Net competitions are pointless. They are an everyone's a winner attitude and award weak players with wins they don't deserve and haven't earned in my book.

    Every man is there for himself to learn and improve himself in a competitive environment. Are you suggesting that in professional tournaments that players should be offering something to playing partners? That makes no sense. It's a competition, not round with friends. I'm not offering counselling and life advice to other players during the round - I'm not a qualified therapist anyway - if someone wanted life advice from me, I'm old enough to know better that it isn't my business or place to give it - they would need to seek a specialist adviser in that area - unless I was an expert on the topic I wouldn't be helping out. Maybe you are the type of person that likes giving unsolicited advice all the time. That's the impression you are giving me by being offended I'm not "offering" something to playing partners - offering what? Being polite and trying my best on the course is a good thing - what I'd want from a playing partner during a practice round or a competition. What I offer is an extra player in the competition, makes it more of a competition the more players you have. If you and I start a competition tomorrow it means nothing if I beat you. The pressure and occasion is different to having 100 entries, so don't act like each entry to a club competition isn't valuable because it is.

    In terms of making friends, I don't have time for new ones in my life. That don't mean I won't always be polite to people at the club I made that clear above.

    Woah, my mistake. I apologize for having posted in your topic as I obviously didn’t understand yourself or your club at all. Sounds like you have it all figured out.

    I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • HatsForBatsHatsForBats Members Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @North Butte said:
    The one thing that's probably not going to work is this...

    @HonestPlayer said:
    From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

    If you're a double-digit handicapper you are almost certainly going to be in flighted and/or handicapped events. There's not much opportunity (nor does there IMO need to be much opportunity) for someone shooting in the 80's and 90's to play in straight-up tournaments against scratch or near-scratch players.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into the quoted part but it sounds like possibly you're a not very good player looking for an opportunity to play against and learn from the best players in your club. Unless they are friends of yours, that kind of thing probably won't be welcomed. The scratch players tend to have their games (or flights in flighted events) and the 80's and 90's shooters have theirs. At most clubs, anyway.

    If you present yourself as not wanting to play in flighted and/or handicapped tournaments and also not wanting to socialize or make friends, pardon me for being blunt, but it's hard to see exactly what you have to offer potential playing partners.

    Golf is about the score. Net competitions are pointless. They are an everyone's a winner attitude and award weak players with wins they don't deserve and haven't earned in my book.

    Every man is there for himself to learn and improve himself in a competitive environment. Are you suggesting that in professional tournaments that players should be offering something to playing partners? That makes no sense. It's a competition, not round with friends. I'm not offering counselling and life advice to other players during the round - I'm not a qualified therapist anyway - if someone wanted life advice from me, I'm old enough to know better that it isn't my business or place to give it - they would need to seek a specialist adviser in that area - unless I was an expert on the topic I wouldn't be helping out. Maybe you are the type of person that likes giving unsolicited advice all the time. That's the impression you are giving me by being offended I'm not "offering" something to playing partners - offering what? Being polite and trying my best on the course is a good thing - what I'd want from a playing partner during a practice round or a competition. What I offer is an extra player in the competition, makes it more of a competition the more players you have. If you and I start a competition tomorrow it means nothing if I beat you. The pressure and occasion is different to having 100 entries, so don't act like each entry to a club competition isn't valuable because it is.

    In terms of making friends, I don't have time for new ones in my life. That don't mean I won't always be polite to people at the club I made that clear above.

    I think you are going to find that you are one of the few that find net competitions to be pointless. The idea being that the players who shoot the best that day, as compared to their course handicap, win. Most people that play and put up money to play a tournament want to feel like they at least have a chance of winning. Otherwise you end up with very few players in the competitons as people tend not to like giving their money away without a realistic chance of ever winning. Good luck finding gross competitions on a consistent basis at the club level especially for those with indexes in the double digits.

  • jmkenn0jmkenn0 Members Posts: 760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If everyone around you is an a-hole....
    yeah, you probably should just stick to local am events, because most club events aren't going to be for you. Even in the championship (gross) flights, people may enjoy a beverage, idle chit-chat, etc. Probably won't grind everything out either.

  • BKN1964BKN1964 Members Posts: 997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 19, 2019 2:55pm #17

    My $0.02 (I belong to an inexpensive golf club (not country club) in the US):

    I agree with you overall that winning in a net competition is a little like getting a participation trophy. I'm a handicap golfer and play in the appropriate flight in our tournaments. It's fun to see your name on the leaderboard for your flight and get some pro shop credit, but at the end of the day I really only care about how I played, and my gross score vs. the entire field.

    At our club, guys show up for the competitions that we pretty much never see in the weekend skins game. They pretty much keep to themselves or with their small groups when not playing in the competitions. There is no "real" expectation when you play in a competition other than to be respectful of the people you play with. You can be as social or as focused as you want. I would recommend if the group has some small dollar competition going on within the group ($5-$10 or so), that you join in, but we've never been put out if someone says something like "No thanks, I really just want to focus on my playing today".

    Based on what you've written you should probably stick to the individual stroke-play competitions, although I will say that some of team formats are pretty fun for a change of pace (best ball, alternating shot, etc.), but it does require a little more interaction with whoever you're teamed up with. Even then, there's no expectation that you become best buddies with whoever you were teamed up with.

    Added: If you really want to play with some better golfers, find some inexpensive skins games going on at your club that you can join in on. You may lose a few bucks, but it's a pretty inexpensive lesson to see how potentially better golfers manage to shoot low scores regardless of the situations they get themselves into.

    Also added: I guess I should answer your question: The point? Some people play for social reasons, some just to play golf, some to test themselves in a competition. Pretty much up to the individual to decide. The club pretty much organizes them because the membership has an expectation that they do, for the reasons listed.

  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Some of my fondest memories from when I was a private club member were the club championships. I was in the second best flight. We played even up. Match play. I made it all the way to the final match one year and lost on the 20th hole.

    There are two kinds of regret in life. You can regret doing something or regret not doing something. Pick your poison.

  • SecondandGoalSecondandGoal South Shore MAMembers Posts: 324 ✭✭✭✭

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @North Butte said:
    The one thing that's probably not going to work is this...

    @HonestPlayer said:
    From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

    If you're a double-digit handicapper you are almost certainly going to be in flighted and/or handicapped events. There's not much opportunity (nor does there IMO need to be much opportunity) for someone shooting in the 80's and 90's to play in straight-up tournaments against scratch or near-scratch players.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into the quoted part but it sounds like possibly you're a not very good player looking for an opportunity to play against and learn from the best players in your club. Unless they are friends of yours, that kind of thing probably won't be welcomed. The scratch players tend to have their games (or flights in flighted events) and the 80's and 90's shooters have theirs. At most clubs, anyway.

    If you present yourself as not wanting to play in flighted and/or handicapped tournaments and also not wanting to socialize or make friends, pardon me for being blunt, but it's hard to see exactly what you have to offer potential playing partners.

    Golf is about the score. Net competitions are pointless. They are an everyone's a winner attitude and award weak players with wins they don't deserve and haven't earned in my book.

    Every man is there for himself to learn and improve himself in a competitive environment. Are you suggesting that in professional tournaments that players should be offering something to playing partners? That makes no sense. It's a competition, not round with friends. I'm not offering counselling and life advice to other players during the round - I'm not a qualified therapist anyway - if someone wanted life advice from me, I'm old enough to know better that it isn't my business or place to give it - they would need to seek a specialist adviser in that area - unless I was an expert on the topic I wouldn't be helping out. Maybe you are the type of person that likes giving unsolicited advice all the time. That's the impression you are giving me by being offended I'm not "offering" something to playing partners - offering what? Being polite and trying my best on the course is a good thing - what I'd want from a playing partner during a practice round or a competition. What I offer is an extra player in the competition, makes it more of a competition the more players you have. If you and I start a competition tomorrow it means nothing if I beat you. The pressure and occasion is different to having 100 entries, so don't act like each entry to a club competition isn't valuable because it is.

    In terms of making friends, I don't have time for new ones in my life. That don't mean I won't always be polite to people at the club I made that clear above.

    The entire point of the handicap system is to allow players of differing abilities to compete on close to an even playing field. A HUGE percentage of golfers around the world would completely disagree with your statement that "golf is about the score". If I play better compared to my cap than the guy I'm competing against, I won. I deserved it. I lost in the final round of a tournament in my club to a guy I was giving 7 strokes to. I beat him on raw score, but he played better to his cap that day than I did. He deserved the win.

    What do professional tournaments have to do with this? Might as well compare flag football for 8-year-olds to the NFL. This is not professional golf, it has nothing to do with professional golf, and none of us will ever even sniff what professional golf is like. If you want to play in the tournament and keep your head down and your mouth shut, nothing wrong with that. But not everyone is like that, and don't act like you're better than those who want to socialize during a tournament round. Wanting to beat someone and having a social conversation with them are not mutually exclusive concepts.

    Might want to read the overall tone of the majority of the responses here, and reconsider your attitude toward the game and other players a bit. Or find a new hobby.

  • VindogVindog Don't order the schnitzel. They're using schnauzer! Members Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 19, 2019 5:29pm #20

    @North Butte said:

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @North Butte said:
    The one thing that's probably not going to work is this...

    @HonestPlayer said:
    From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

    If you're a double-digit handicapper you are almost certainly going to be in flighted and/or handicapped events. There's not much opportunity (nor does there IMO need to be much opportunity) for someone shooting in the 80's and 90's to play in straight-up tournaments against scratch or near-scratch players.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into the quoted part but it sounds like possibly you're a not very good player looking for an opportunity to play against and learn from the best players in your club. Unless they are friends of yours, that kind of thing probably won't be welcomed. The scratch players tend to have their games (or flights in flighted events) and the 80's and 90's shooters have theirs. At most clubs, anyway.

    If you present yourself as not wanting to play in flighted and/or handicapped tournaments and also not wanting to socialize or make friends, pardon me for being blunt, but it's hard to see exactly what you have to offer potential playing partners.

    Golf is about the score. Net competitions are pointless. They are an everyone's a winner attitude and award weak players with wins they don't deserve and haven't earned in my book.

    Every man is there for himself to learn and improve himself in a competitive environment. Are you suggesting that in professional tournaments that players should be offering something to playing partners? That makes no sense. It's a competition, not round with friends. I'm not offering counselling and life advice to other players during the round - I'm not a qualified therapist anyway - if someone wanted life advice from me, I'm old enough to know better that it isn't my business or place to give it - they would need to seek a specialist adviser in that area - unless I was an expert on the topic I wouldn't be helping out. Maybe you are the type of person that likes giving unsolicited advice all the time. That's the impression you are giving me by being offended I'm not "offering" something to playing partners - offering what? Being polite and trying my best on the course is a good thing - what I'd want from a playing partner during a practice round or a competition. What I offer is an extra player in the competition, makes it more of a competition the more players you have. If you and I start a competition tomorrow it means nothing if I beat you. The pressure and occasion is different to having 100 entries, so don't act like each entry to a club competition isn't valuable because it is.

    In terms of making friends, I don't have time for new ones in my life. That don't mean I won't always be polite to people at the club I made that clear above.

    Woah, my mistake. I apologize for having posted in your topic as I obviously didn’t understand yourself or your club at all. Sounds like you have it all figured out.

    I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

    This thread has become more "I" (OP) than "they" (the club)

    run of the mill driver with stock shaft
    a couple of outdated hybrids
    shovel-ier shovels
    wedges from same shovel company
    some putter with a dead insert and
    a hideous grip
  • dave williedave willie Members Posts: 813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The club championship is an event to find out who is the best golfer in the club. No handicaps, no sandbagging, just best score wins. Some players are grinders who don't want to have any contact at all with their fellow competitors, others are friendly, and still others will be trying to play head games with you. It's serious golf in it purest form.

    Titleist 917 D3 10.5 Diamana Ltd S+ Blue 70-S
    Cobra Bio Cell 3/4 wood PXv 6.0
    Cleveland Hi-Bore 19 hybrid
    Ping i210 4-PW AWT 2.0 R
    Cleveland 588 50*, 54* & 60*
    Cameron Mil-Spec 
  • HonestPlayerHonestPlayer Members Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭

    @North Butte said:

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @North Butte said:
    The one thing that's probably not going to work is this...

    @HonestPlayer said:
    From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

    If you're a double-digit handicapper you are almost certainly going to be in flighted and/or handicapped events. There's not much opportunity (nor does there IMO need to be much opportunity) for someone shooting in the 80's and 90's to play in straight-up tournaments against scratch or near-scratch players.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into the quoted part but it sounds like possibly you're a not very good player looking for an opportunity to play against and learn from the best players in your club. Unless they are friends of yours, that kind of thing probably won't be welcomed. The scratch players tend to have their games (or flights in flighted events) and the 80's and 90's shooters have theirs. At most clubs, anyway.

    If you present yourself as not wanting to play in flighted and/or handicapped tournaments and also not wanting to socialize or make friends, pardon me for being blunt, but it's hard to see exactly what you have to offer potential playing partners.

    Golf is about the score. Net competitions are pointless. They are an everyone's a winner attitude and award weak players with wins they don't deserve and haven't earned in my book.

    Every man is there for himself to learn and improve himself in a competitive environment. Are you suggesting that in professional tournaments that players should be offering something to playing partners? That makes no sense. It's a competition, not round with friends. I'm not offering counselling and life advice to other players during the round - I'm not a qualified therapist anyway - if someone wanted life advice from me, I'm old enough to know better that it isn't my business or place to give it - they would need to seek a specialist adviser in that area - unless I was an expert on the topic I wouldn't be helping out. Maybe you are the type of person that likes giving unsolicited advice all the time. That's the impression you are giving me by being offended I'm not "offering" something to playing partners - offering what? Being polite and trying my best on the course is a good thing - what I'd want from a playing partner during a practice round or a competition. What I offer is an extra player in the competition, makes it more of a competition the more players you have. If you and I start a competition tomorrow it means nothing if I beat you. The pressure and occasion is different to having 100 entries, so don't act like each entry to a club competition isn't valuable because it is.

    In terms of making friends, I don't have time for new ones in my life. That don't mean I won't always be polite to people at the club I made that clear above.

    Woah, my mistake. I apologize for having posted in your topic as I obviously didn’t understand yourself or your club at all. Sounds like you have it all figured out.

    I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

    This is the issue - you are hostile and trying to control who I am and my interests. We are all different and polite people like myself respect that about everyone. You've come here and been deliberately hostile - clearly having a bad day if you think a dude turning up to play in a competition that follows etiquette, is polite and plays by the rules is a horrible person. You think you are the moral compass of the planet it seems, I do not.

    Most birdies in a round in 2019 - 3
    Holes in ones career - 1
    Split Grip Birdie COUNTER - 1

  • HonestPlayerHonestPlayer Members Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 19, 2019 5:55pm #23

    @Vindog said:

    @North Butte said:

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @North Butte said:
    The one thing that's probably not going to work is this...

    @HonestPlayer said:
    From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

    If you're a double-digit handicapper you are almost certainly going to be in flighted and/or handicapped events. There's not much opportunity (nor does there IMO need to be much opportunity) for someone shooting in the 80's and 90's to play in straight-up tournaments against scratch or near-scratch players.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into the quoted part but it sounds like possibly you're a not very good player looking for an opportunity to play against and learn from the best players in your club. Unless they are friends of yours, that kind of thing probably won't be welcomed. The scratch players tend to have their games (or flights in flighted events) and the 80's and 90's shooters have theirs. At most clubs, anyway.

    If you present yourself as not wanting to play in flighted and/or handicapped tournaments and also not wanting to socialize or make friends, pardon me for being blunt, but it's hard to see exactly what you have to offer potential playing partners.

    Golf is about the score. Net competitions are pointless. They are an everyone's a winner attitude and award weak players with wins they don't deserve and haven't earned in my book.

    Every man is there for himself to learn and improve himself in a competitive environment. Are you suggesting that in professional tournaments that players should be offering something to playing partners? That makes no sense. It's a competition, not round with friends. I'm not offering counselling and life advice to other players during the round - I'm not a qualified therapist anyway - if someone wanted life advice from me, I'm old enough to know better that it isn't my business or place to give it - they would need to seek a specialist adviser in that area - unless I was an expert on the topic I wouldn't be helping out. Maybe you are the type of person that likes giving unsolicited advice all the time. That's the impression you are giving me by being offended I'm not "offering" something to playing partners - offering what? Being polite and trying my best on the course is a good thing - what I'd want from a playing partner during a practice round or a competition. What I offer is an extra player in the competition, makes it more of a competition the more players you have. If you and I start a competition tomorrow it means nothing if I beat you. The pressure and occasion is different to having 100 entries, so don't act like each entry to a club competition isn't valuable because it is.

    In terms of making friends, I don't have time for new ones in my life. That don't mean I won't always be polite to people at the club I made that clear above.

    Woah, my mistake. I apologize for having posted in your topic as I obviously didn’t understand yourself or your club at all. Sounds like you have it all figured out.

    I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

    This thread has become more "I" (OP) than "they" (the club)

    That was the point and was from the start - I was wanting to ensure it was worth me entering and that I would enjoy it - and the factor of not offending anyone else was because I don't want to. That's generally the point in life - live it for yourself because you only live once. I have a strong and good moral code deeply rooted in me - so doing my own thing includes not offending people if I can help it - some people insist on getting offended however. I never said otherwise regarding this. I'm sure people with self respect play in tournaments for themselves not others to try to improve themselves as a person and a player. I'm not trying to be offensive at all - clearly some people here have the polar opposite intentions to me in life and goal - but I'm not bothered by that - do your own thing. I was asking questions about the club, not asking for a personal attack on my character. Interesting that you guys think I'm doing wrong here, if you met me you'd laugh at how badly you read me in this thread. Remember - words on here can be taken in a completely different tone to reality - I'm talking in a laid back, lighthearted tone. That's how I am. I'm not easily offended and play stress free golf like Golf Sidekick - already did before discovering him on youtube.

    Most birdies in a round in 2019 - 3
    Holes in ones career - 1
    Split Grip Birdie COUNTER - 1

  • HonestPlayerHonestPlayer Members Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭

    @BKN1964 said:
    My $0.02 (I belong to an inexpensive golf club (not country club) in the US):

    I agree with you overall that winning in a net competition is a little like getting a participation trophy. I'm a handicap golfer and play in the appropriate flight in our tournaments. It's fun to see your name on the leaderboard for your flight and get some pro shop credit, but at the end of the day I really only care about how I played, and my gross score vs. the entire field.

    At our club, guys show up for the competitions that we pretty much never see in the weekend skins game. They pretty much keep to themselves or with their small groups when not playing in the competitions. There is no "real" expectation when you play in a competition other than to be respectful of the people you play with. You can be as social or as focused as you want. I would recommend if the group has some small dollar competition going on within the group ($5-$10 or so), that you join in, but we've never been put out if someone says something like "No thanks, I really just want to focus on my playing today".

    Based on what you've written you should probably stick to the individual stroke-play competitions, although I will say that some of team formats are pretty fun for a change of pace (best ball, alternating shot, etc.), but it does require a little more interaction with whoever you're teamed up with. Even then, there's no expectation that you become best buddies with whoever you were teamed up with.

    Added: If you really want to play with some better golfers, find some inexpensive skins games going on at your club that you can join in on. You may lose a few bucks, but it's a pretty inexpensive lesson to see how potentially better golfers manage to shoot low scores regardless of the situations they get themselves into.

    Also added: I guess I should answer your question: The point? Some people play for social reasons, some just to play golf, some to test themselves in a competition. Pretty much up to the individual to decide. The club pretty much organizes them because the membership has an expectation that they do, for the reasons listed.

    Good that someone here is level-headed, mature and in control of their emotions to post a well-thought out and balanced judgement here. I would definitely stick to individual stroke-play. I wouldn't play for money ever - I do understand your reasoning about getting to play with better players, but you are essentially paying them to play with you if you can't beat them. I appreciate however that you can learn a little about course management - but we can do that by watching the pros play live on TV or in person I suppose. I also think every golfer is different and has to work on the course management of their own game above all else, so feel there's less to learn from others and more to learn from how you play yourself in different environments and situations.

    The last part is exactly the answer I was after, and glad to hear it. Shame that some posters have been offended so personally by my thoughts and got passive-aggressive, perhaps it gives an in-sight to what is really going on in the mind of the less independent players than take part in competitions - ones that are co-dependant. Interesting from psychological point of view for it to come out like this in the thread attacking me, a laid back character, on the internet. I think it's probably best if the thread just gets deleted, because people that are co-dependant and want others to share their same philosophies won't stop or give in - or will abuse that person as seen here if they don't get their way. I can be dependant and can happily play with anyone that respects me and the course - and I will respect them and the course. I think that's perfectly fair. Some people can't understand that someone is happy enough in their own skin to never need gratification from others. Some people never understands, some come to understand, some understand from the beginning. It's interesting the social aspect of the thread - completely unintended on my part.

    Most birdies in a round in 2019 - 3
    Holes in ones career - 1
    Split Grip Birdie COUNTER - 1

  • Bluefan75Bluefan75 Members Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @North Butte said:

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @North Butte said:
    The one thing that's probably not going to work is this...

    @HonestPlayer said:
    From what I gather most club tournaments are played solely by 45-80 range and based on net handicap (something I hate. I'd rather they were based just on score. I'd only enter one that wasn't based on net).

    If you're a double-digit handicapper you are almost certainly going to be in flighted and/or handicapped events. There's not much opportunity (nor does there IMO need to be much opportunity) for someone shooting in the 80's and 90's to play in straight-up tournaments against scratch or near-scratch players.

    Perhaps I'm reading too much into the quoted part but it sounds like possibly you're a not very good player looking for an opportunity to play against and learn from the best players in your club. Unless they are friends of yours, that kind of thing probably won't be welcomed. The scratch players tend to have their games (or flights in flighted events) and the 80's and 90's shooters have theirs. At most clubs, anyway.

    If you present yourself as not wanting to play in flighted and/or handicapped tournaments and also not wanting to socialize or make friends, pardon me for being blunt, but it's hard to see exactly what you have to offer potential playing partners.

    Golf is about the score. Net competitions are pointless. They are an everyone's a winner attitude and award weak players with wins they don't deserve and haven't earned in my book.

    Every man is there for himself to learn and improve himself in a competitive environment. Are you suggesting that in professional tournaments that players should be offering something to playing partners? That makes no sense. It's a competition, not round with friends. I'm not offering counselling and life advice to other players during the round - I'm not a qualified therapist anyway - if someone wanted life advice from me, I'm old enough to know better that it isn't my business or place to give it - they would need to seek a specialist adviser in that area - unless I was an expert on the topic I wouldn't be helping out. Maybe you are the type of person that likes giving unsolicited advice all the time. That's the impression you are giving me by being offended I'm not "offering" something to playing partners - offering what? Being polite and trying my best on the course is a good thing - what I'd want from a playing partner during a practice round or a competition. What I offer is an extra player in the competition, makes it more of a competition the more players you have. If you and I start a competition tomorrow it means nothing if I beat you. The pressure and occasion is different to having 100 entries, so don't act like each entry to a club competition isn't valuable because it is.

    In terms of making friends, I don't have time for new ones in my life. That don't mean I won't always be polite to people at the club I made that clear above.

    Woah, my mistake. I apologize for having posted in your topic as I obviously didn’t understand yourself or your club at all. Sounds like you have it all figured out.

    I wish you the best in your future endeavors.

    This is the issue - you are hostile and trying to control who I am and my interests. We are all different and polite people like myself respect that about everyone. You've come here and been deliberately hostile - clearly having a bad day if you think a dude turning up to play in a competition that follows etiquette, is polite and plays by the rules is a horrible person. You think you are the moral compass of the planet it seems, I do not.

    Not that I'm North Butte's biggest fan or anything, but I think you were the one brought hostility into the equation. "You give me the impression you are...."
    Since you don't have time for new friends I guess I'm playing with house money here..... You were the one who was the d *( k. He just responded in kind.

  • HonestPlayerHonestPlayer Members Posts: 264 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 19, 2019 6:19pm #26

    @dave willie said:
    The club championship is an event to find out who is the best golfer in the club. No handicaps, no sandbagging, just best score wins. Some players are grinders who don't want to have any contact at all with their fellow competitors, others are friendly, and still others will be trying to play head games with you. It's serious golf in it purest form.

    That's the event I was after. I'm a free spirit rather than a grinder type personality. I consider my personality and persona very different to a grinder - grinder type players are the last type of people I enjoy playing with. I'm not competitive so my course management involves zero ego and the whole round is stress free golf - and I always want who I'm playing with to play their best golf - nothing worse than that guy that stresses the whole round and wants everyone they are playing with to fail. I suppose free spirits in golf are painfully rare compared to grinders and what not, so easy enough assumption to make in the thread - so maybe I'll cut some posters a bit of slack - not all grinders are the same either, some want others to play well some don't. I do suppose you'd struggle to find anything purer than a club championship with everyone playing their home courses - I completely agree. Perhaps the British Open at St Andrews is the only thing topping a club championship in my view.

    Most birdies in a round in 2019 - 3
    Holes in ones career - 1
    Split Grip Birdie COUNTER - 1

  • BKN1964BKN1964 Members Posts: 997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @HonestPlayer said:

    @dave willie said:
    The club championship is an event to find out who is the best golfer in the club. No handicaps, no sandbagging, just best score wins. Some players are grinders who don't want to have any contact at all with their fellow competitors, others are friendly, and still others will be trying to play head games with you. It's serious golf in it purest form.

    That's the event I was after. I'm a free spirit rather than a grinder type personality. I consider my personality and persona very different to a grinder - grinder type players are the last type of people I enjoy playing with. I'm not competitive so my course management involves zero ego and the whole round is stress free golf - and I always want who I'm playing with to play their best golf - nothing worse than that guy that stresses the whole round and wants everyone they are playing with to fail. I suppose free spirits in golf are painfully rare compared to grinders and what not, so easy enough assumption to make in the thread - so maybe I'll cut some posters a bit of slack - not all grinders are the same either, some want others to play well some don't. I do suppose you'd struggle to find anything purer than a club championship with everyone playing their home courses - I completely agree. Perhaps the British Open at St Andrews is the only thing topping a club championship in my view.

    Something to consider is how the events are structured.

    The Club Championship at our club is set up with the Champion flight, which plays gross score only, and the net flights which are purely based on your current handicap and net results. If you want to play in the Champ flight, you have to declare it, otherwise you're flighted according to your index. It's usually considered poor form to choose to play in the Championship flight if you don't have a realistic chance of competing. Although most of the players there know each other, they're usually pretty focused and trying hard to win. I couldn't get a read on your playing abilities, so not sure this is directed at you, but I think you should be able to shoot legitimate scores around par before choosing to play in the Champ flight, as it really wouldn't be fair to those players who can to be grouped with someone grinding out scores higher than about 85.

  • duffer987duffer987 I'm old enough to remember a time when Ignore and Feedback worked. Canadian in CaliforniaMembers Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @HonestPlayer said:
    Golf is about the score. Net competitions are pointless. They are an everyone's a winner attitude and award weak players with wins they don't deserve and haven't earned in my book.

    @HonestPlayer said:

    That's the event I was after. I'm a free spirit rather than a grinder type personality. I consider my personality and persona very different to a grinder - grinder type players are the last type of people I enjoy playing with.** I'm not competitive** so my course management involves zero ego and the whole round is stress free golf...

    I'm not seeing how these two things match up.
    If you're not competitive then why do you care how the competition is formed/run?

  • 1t2golf1t2golf Marshals Posts: 3,309 mod

    Closed per OP's request

    Sic omnia fatis In peius ruere ac retro sublapsa referri...semper ubi sub ubi
This discussion has been closed.