Style of play and players distance irons... need advice

This is not in anyway a brag, I am seriously looking for opinions. So I find myself in Aug as a 5.2 handicap playing some really good golf (for me) most rounds this summer. Got fit for a putter for the first time, and within a month knocked a stroke off my handicap (dropped from a 6.7). This kinda feels like a bubble ready to burst, since no other part of my game has dramatically changed. I have been having some great rounds in our club events, but mostly due to putts dropping from 10' plus, with the occasional tight iron shot. Most of my game is decent from tee to green, just depends on the day to see what is firing on all cylinders or not. The issue for me seems to always be when I play better players, scratch or that area. Even with the strokes I get I feel like they just take it deeper than me. I am no longer anxious to play against that type of player as I know I can post a 74 or better sometimes, but every time I do have a match it ends that up that need to shoot a career round to win. Two factors seem to stick out when I play these scratch players, they go for par 5's in 2 and they tend to hit irons super tight. I have reasonable length off the tee compared to them, but I tend to play a more finesse game with irons, and did grow up accustomed to attacking par 5's. Seems like most of them are playing players distance irons, so going for a par 5 at 220 they are hitting iron still.

I have tended toward playing a finesse game most of the time, which works against shorter players, but there is a distinct advantage to someone chipping for a 3rd shot on a par 5 verse me hitting 70 yrds plus. Recently a partner in a team match said I should just hammer full swing at everything, which means adjusting my club choice and needing to flush the shot. Am I crazy for avoiding players distance irons in the sense that I would typically have a club less into the same yardage comapred to my AP2's? Also, should I consider adjusting my style of play since it has been a consistent weakness against better players, or is it an attitude adjustment instead. I have shot even twice, and can sniff 1 under on 9 so I know I have the game but it needs to be a stars align situation to do it. Trying to get advice on where I can make a change that might help bring lower scores into play more often. I typically try to make par and let birdie opportunities come to me, which could be part of the problem. Anyway, not trying to waste anyone's time but curious for some thoughts... did a similar post earlier when I was having consistency issues and got some good insights. Hoping for that here

Your thinking seems to me (I am NOT a golf coach or psychologist) to over-emphasize how your game compares on a shot-by-shot basis with the guys you are playing against.

If you choose the style of play and the type of clubs that let you shoot your lowest scores, those are literally the optimum choices for you. Unless you want to tear down your swing and rebuild it or something crazy like that!

The going for Par 5 thing is about lowest scores (over the whole round) winning. If by trying to reach them you could shoot lower scores then sure you need to go for it. But if your swing and the Par 5's on the courses you play simply don't call for a "go for it" game plan, then just work on scoring as well as possible after not reaching them in two.

> @"North Butte" said:

> Your thinking seems to me (I am NOT a golf coach or psychologist) to over-emphasize how your game compares on a shot-by-shot basis with the guys you are playing against.

>

> If you choose the style of play and the type of clubs that let you shoot your lowest scores, those are literally the optimum choices for you. Unless you want to tear down your swing and rebuild it or something crazy like that!

>

> The going for Par 5 thing is about lowest scores (over the whole round) winning. If by trying to reach them you could shoot lower scores then sure you need to go for it. But if your swing and the Par 5's on the courses you play simply don't call for a "go for it" game plan, then just work on scoring as well as possible after not reaching them in two.

>

I hear what you are saying, and totally agree with the par 5 rule of thumb. At our home course they are all pretty much gettable, so my decision making varies when I travel. Seems like I am having trouble adopting a match play verse casual play dilemma. When just messing around I go for it, and generally play fine... I seem to take a different approach when in match play that might be costing me birdie opps. As what I am learning is that all pars aren't equal, I may shoot a 74 and that causes my handicap to drop, but if it was on the back of some lucky up and downs its not going to be sustainable. I have been debating with my fitter over the loft and distance of irons, but he swears up and down the loft lowering is just a product of the geometry and that having a shorter club in is always better (even if it is the same loft as my next iron longer currently). Just wrestling with what will help me, since while I am definitely a club guy, I truly believe the right equipment can make a huge difference. Going from a scotty blade to a stroke lab mallet has been a night and day improvement in my putting. I am wondering if there is a light bulb moment like that in irons for me, which my fitter is telling me there is but I have been too stubborn.

Also scratch guys are just good, so I am not making par net birdie I am going to lose... i get that for the most part.

I was going to post a thread about being too low a HC and the frustrations that come with it, and then read this thread that shines a spotlight on the issue.

You appear too good & obsessed with scoring and winning matches & not just enjoying the game.

This was what I thought when contemplating the thread. You are almost always on or at worst right by the green in reg (minus a pull hook/power fade or bad break). So then it is not good enough to hit one to 20', they need to be inside 10'. Par 5's should be under par every round.

It's a vicious "mind f" when you can hit it 270+ in the fairway and wonder why you weren't under par.

Conversely there is the 5HC, who hits it max 250, usually has mid-irons to the green, a decent short game and is happy with a 77.

IMO I'd stop playing matches and enjoy 18 one hole games a round....... :) :D

> @Under2hours said:

> I was going to post a thread about being too low a HC and the frustrations that come with it, and then read this thread that shines a spotlight on the issue.

> You appear too good & obsessed with scoring and winning matches & not just enjoying the game.

>

> This was what I thought when contemplating the thread. You are almost always on or at worst right by the green in reg (minus a pull hook/power fade or bad break). So then it is not good enough to hit one to 20', they need to be inside 10'. Par 5's should be under par every round.

>

> It's a vicious "mind f" when you can hit it 270+ in the fairway and wonder why you weren't under par.

>

> Conversely there is the 5HC, who hits it max 250, usually has mid-irons to the green, a decent short game and is happy with a 77.

>

> IMO I'd stop playing matches and enjoy 18 one hole games a round....... :) :D

>

>

This is something that has crossed my mind, and I think holds a great deal of truth. I love golf, but honestly hate gambling on it as it feels like a roulette wheel of whoever is hotter that day, but the stakes are set upon a handicap that is based on the last 20 scores... I totally recognize that part of my issue is basically being a headcase hahaha. There is just something about seeing your handicap drop and feeling like, well this won't be sustainable. Thanks for the thoughts, and I am happy to see at least I'm not alone in my sentiment.

I'd do two things, just my opinion -

1) Get a SG18 app up and running for about 5-10 rounds. See where you are truly losing strokes. Many times that 3 putt you made might have started all the way back on the tee box due to a yucky drive that left you in the rough.

2) Get an actual iron fitting if you're actually losing strokes from iron play. In my experience, higher speed players usually don't lose any control from "distance irons" because they have enough CHS to get the ball elevated fast and coming down steeply. It's the slower speed guys that suffer more because they need spin to get the ball in the air.

> @Z1ggy16 said:

> I'd do two things, just my opinion -

>

> 1) Get a SG18 app up and running for about 5-10 rounds. See where you are truly losing strokes. Many times that 3 putt you made might have started all the way back on the tee box due to a yucky drive that left you in the rough.

>

> 2) Get an actual iron fitting if you're actually losing strokes from iron play. In my experience, higher speed players usually don't lose any control from "distance irons" because they have enough CHS to get the ball elevated fast and coming down steeply. It's the slower speed guys that suffer more because they need spin to get the ball in the air.

Your first suggestion may be what I have been missing, someone at my club got the app that tracks your handicap in each facet and he learned alot about his game. As for irons, I have been fit but it was with the mentality of I wanted Titleist AP2 so the fitter set me up with the best setup for that iron. It was not inclusive of testing other brands and seeing what (if anything) would give me better results. Our logic was I was playing something I felt comfy with, so we would optimize that iron... that defintely only goes so far. Last fitting when I went in open minded it was between TM 790 and Callaway X forged, both went further but I was reluctant to bite due to the lofts. Starting to think a few more yards and some forgiveness with it wouldn't be all that bad, thus the headcase tendencies. I think the previous poster summed it up, either enjoy the losing with the winning or just play for fun.

> @drscott266 said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > I was going to post a thread about being too low a HC and the frustrations that come with it, and then read this thread that shines a spotlight on the issue.

> > You appear too good & obsessed with scoring and winning matches & not just enjoying the game.

> >

> > This was what I thought when contemplating the thread. You are almost always on or at worst right by the green in reg (minus a pull hook/power fade or bad break). So then it is not good enough to hit one to 20', they need to be inside 10'. Par 5's should be under par every round.

> >

> > It's a vicious "mind f" when you can hit it 270+ in the fairway and wonder why you weren't under par.

> >

> > Conversely there is the 5HC, who hits it max 250, usually has mid-irons to the green, a decent short game and is happy with a 77.

> >

> > IMO I'd stop playing matches and enjoy 18 one hole games a round....... :) :D

> >

> >

>

> This is something that has crossed my mind, and I think holds a great deal of truth. I love golf, but honestly hate gambling on it as it feels like a roulette wheel of whoever is hotter that day, but the stakes are set upon a handicap that is based on the last 20 scores... I totally recognize that part of my issue is basically being a headcase hahaha. There is just something about seeing your handicap drop and feeling like, well this won't be sustainable. Thanks for the thoughts, and I am happy to see at least I'm not alone in my sentiment.

BTW I am no where near your level. I'm a short distance bunter and play holes that I call par 5.5's, 4.5's & 3.5's........... I am approaching 10, but my upside maybe at best 7(?). I won't ever expect a 70 and the goal is <80. A great round is 7-9 GIR's, no duffs and good chips & shots from 80 to give me a look at par or no worse then a 2-putt.

I have simple needs/wants.....

> @Under2hours said:

> > @drscott266 said:

> > > @Under2hours said:

> > > I was going to post a thread about being too low a HC and the frustrations that come with it, and then read this thread that shines a spotlight on the issue.

> > > You appear too good & obsessed with scoring and winning matches & not just enjoying the game.

> > >

> > > This was what I thought when contemplating the thread. You are almost always on or at worst right by the green in reg (minus a pull hook/power fade or bad break). So then it is not good enough to hit one to 20', they need to be inside 10'. Par 5's should be under par every round.

> > >

> > > It's a vicious "mind f" when you can hit it 270+ in the fairway and wonder why you weren't under par.

> > >

> > > Conversely there is the 5HC, who hits it max 250, usually has mid-irons to the green, a decent short game and is happy with a 77.

> > >

> > > IMO I'd stop playing matches and enjoy 18 one hole games a round....... :) :D

> > >

> > >

> >

> > This is something that has crossed my mind, and I think holds a great deal of truth. I love golf, but honestly hate gambling on it as it feels like a roulette wheel of whoever is hotter that day, but the stakes are set upon a handicap that is based on the last 20 scores... I totally recognize that part of my issue is basically being a headcase hahaha. There is just something about seeing your handicap drop and feeling like, well this won't be sustainable. Thanks for the thoughts, and I am happy to see at least I'm not alone in my sentiment.

>

> BTW I am no where near your level. I'm a short distance bunter and play holes that I call par 5.5's, 4.5's & 3.5's........... I am approaching 10, but my upside maybe at best 7(?). I won't ever expect a 70 and the goal is <80. A great round is 7-9 GIR's, no duffs and good chips & shots from 80 to give me a look at par or no worse then a 2-putt.

>

> I have simple needs/wants.....

Haha... I get it, sometimes I think that's best. I also had a guy who is an 11 handicap shoot a 70... not sure the issue is me sometimes.

Players distance irons aren't going to help you hit the ball any closer to the hole than AP2s unless your current irons are not fit correctly. They will, however, help you hit it higher/further especially with the longer irons which may add a missing dimension to your game. Just make sure you get fit and are getting consistent distances/gaps.

As for the par 5's. If all of them are get-able, you really need to be putting it up on or around the green with your second shot if you hit a decent drive. Whether it's a hybrid or long iron you need to develop a reliable way to get it on or around the green from 200 to 250 on the par 5s. You'll probably make more than twice as many birdies from around the green than from 70 yards. And that should more than make up for taking on the added risk from the layup when done properly.

Playing your game and laying up to favorable distances is great advice for most. But if you want to be competing with scratch players, you're not going to get there plodding around the course and playing it safe from 220. For most scratch players I know, that's just not a hard shot unless surrounded by OB and/or water. I'll take my chances in a bunker or rough around the green as a worst case result versus a 70 yard shot in the fairway almost every time.

> @JJK947 said:

> Players distance irons aren't going to help you hit the ball any closer to the hole than AP2s unless your current irons are not fit correctly. They will, however, help you hit it higher/further especially with the longer irons which may add a missing dimension to your game. Just make sure you get fit and are getting consistent distances/gaps.

>

> As for the par 5's. If all of them are get-able, you really need to be putting it up on or around the green with your second shot if you hit a decent drive. Whether it's a hybrid or long iron you need to develop a reliable way to get it on or around the green from 200 to 250 on the par 5s. You'll probably make more than twice as many birdies from around the green than from 70 yards. And that should more than make up for taking on the added risk from the layup when done properly.

>

> Playing your game and laying up to favorable distances is great advice for most. But if you want to be competing with scratch players, you're not going to get there plodding around the course and playing it safe from 220. For most scratch players I know, that's just not a hard shot unless surrounded by OB and/or water. I'll take my chances in a bunker or rough around the green as a worst case result versus a 70 yard shot in the fairway almost every time.

That basically confirms what I was thinking, thanks for the response. That theory on Par 5's makes total sense, and is what I am seeing these players do every time. I think it would help if I had reliable long iron/hybrid game... I do not think I am nearly consistent enough in that department. What are thoughts on taking a soft 7 versus a hard 8 type of thing, do you think that plays a role in this convo? my last playing partner couldn't understand why I would hit more club when I could go for a full shot on lesser club. I know this gets real subjective, but plays into my style of play question. Would going to par 5's also go hand in hand with hitting more full speed shots (not flaying hard, just going at it full speed)? I tend to just accept not hitting my irons very far respectively, and usually take smoother 3/4 swings almost, and take the control. I am starting to think that maybe trying more for max stock distances would get me swinging more aggressively than I currently am. But then I fall back on the 74-77 scores and say why change it. I shouldn't let people with different games talk me into something, but I am always open to other theories on the game.

> @drscott266 said:

> > @Z1ggy16 said:

> > I'd do two things, just my opinion -

> >

> > 1) Get a SG18 app up and running for about 5-10 rounds. See where you are truly losing strokes. Many times that 3 putt you made might have started all the way back on the tee box due to a yucky drive that left you in the rough.

> >

> > 2) Get an actual iron fitting if you're actually losing strokes from iron play. In my experience, higher speed players usually don't lose any control from "distance irons" because they have enough CHS to get the ball elevated fast and coming down steeply. It's the slower speed guys that suffer more because they need spin to get the ball in the air.

>

> Your first suggestion may be what I have been missing, someone at my club got the app that tracks your handicap in each facet and he learned alot about his game. As for irons, I have been fit but it was with the mentality of I wanted Titleist AP2 so the fitter set me up with the best setup for that iron. It was not inclusive of testing other brands and seeing what (if anything) would give me better results. Our logic was I was playing something I felt comfy with, so we would optimize that iron... that defintely only goes so far. Last fitting when I went in open minded it was between TM 790 and Callaway X forged, both went further but I was reluctant to bite due to the lofts. Starting to think a few more yards and some forgiveness with it wouldn't be all that bad, thus the headcase tendencies. I think the previous poster summed it up, either enjoy the losing with the winning or just play for fun.

I always thought I was a horrrrriiibbbllee putter, but turns out after using the SG18 feature on 18birdies, I was sometimes actually gaining strokes on putting (relative to my hc), but my tee play was putting me into bad lies for my approaches, which were then hard to get close, leading to sketchy long putts. Also, there comes a point in ones game where it becomes less about 3 putt avoidance, and much more about 1 putt occurrence.

790's are crrraazzzzy forgiving and stupid long. The only reason I sold them for 770's was I felt they were really jumpy high on the face. The 8i was a comfortable 160-165 carry for me and I'll never forget the day I tugged one a little bit, went OB into somebody's back yard just missing their house. I had to have carried that 180-185.... and I wasn't trying to give it extra juice. I still use the 4i though and I haven't had any weird stuff happening so maybe I just happened to have one of the best swings of my life, who knows. I'm kind of tempted to try the new 790's next year or the year after, because the distance is nice, as long as you're getting the ball up in the air.

> @drscott266 said:

> That basically confirms what I was thinking, thanks for the response. That theory on Par 5's makes total sense, and is what I am seeing these players do every time. I think it would help if I had reliable long iron/hybrid game... I do not think I am nearly consistent enough in that department. What are thoughts on taking a soft 7 versus a hard 8 type of thing, do you think that plays a role in this convo? my last playing partner couldn't understand why I would hit more club when I could go for a full shot on lesser club. I know this gets real subjective, but plays into my style of play question. Would going to par 5's also go hand in hand with hitting more full speed shots (not flaying hard, just going at it full speed)? I tend to just accept not hitting my irons very far respectively, and usually take smoother 3/4 swings almost, and take the control. I am starting to think that maybe trying more for max stock distances would get me swinging more aggressively than I currently am. But then I fall back on the 74-77 scores and say why change it. I shouldn't let people with different games talk me into something, but I am always open to other theories on the game.

I understand you are a feel/finesse type player, I am the same to a degree. At the short end of the bag, I'm hitting 3/4 shots, flighting the ball, making little adjustments to every shot. The mindset gradually progresses until probably around 200+ it becomes pretty much just full swings with intent of draw/fade and high/low only if needed. I don't think you need to change your entire game/mindset. Maybe just an adjustment when it comes to this particular set of circumstances. What you can do in the 185+ range is usually one of the most glaring differences between a 5 and a scratch.

> @Z1ggy16 said:

> > @drscott266 said:

> > > @Z1ggy16 said:

> > > I'd do two things, just my opinion -

> > >

> > > 1) Get a SG18 app up and running for about 5-10 rounds. See where you are truly losing strokes. Many times that 3 putt you made might have started all the way back on the tee box due to a yucky drive that left you in the rough.

> > >

> > > 2) Get an actual iron fitting if you're actually losing strokes from iron play. In my experience, higher speed players usually don't lose any control from "distance irons" because they have enough CHS to get the ball elevated fast and coming down steeply. It's the slower speed guys that suffer more because they need spin to get the ball in the air.

> >

> > Your first suggestion may be what I have been missing, someone at my club got the app that tracks your handicap in each facet and he learned alot about his game. As for irons, I have been fit but it was with the mentality of I wanted Titleist AP2 so the fitter set me up with the best setup for that iron. It was not inclusive of testing other brands and seeing what (if anything) would give me better results. Our logic was I was playing something I felt comfy with, so we would optimize that iron... that defintely only goes so far. Last fitting when I went in open minded it was between TM 790 and Callaway X forged, both went further but I was reluctant to bite due to the lofts. Starting to think a few more yards and some forgiveness with it wouldn't be all that bad, thus the headcase tendencies. I think the previous poster summed it up, either enjoy the losing with the winning or just play for fun.

>

> I always thought I was a horrrrriiibbbllee putter, but turns out after using the SG18 feature on 18birdies, I was sometimes actually gaining strokes on putting (relative to my hc), but my tee play was putting me into bad lies for my approaches, which were then hard to get close, leading to sketchy long putts. Also, there comes a point in ones game where it becomes less about 3 putt avoidance, and much more about 1 putt occurrence.

>

> 790's are crrraazzzzy forgiving and stupid long. The only reason I sold them for 770's was I felt they were really jumpy high on the face. The 8i was a comfortable 160-165 carry for me and I'll never forget the day I tugged one a little bit, went OB into somebody's back yard just missing their house. I had to have carried that 180-185.... and I wasn't trying to give it extra juice. I still use the 4i though and I haven't had any weird stuff happening so maybe I just happened to have one of the best swings of my life, who knows. I'm kind of tempted to try the new 790's next year or the year after, because the distance is nice, as long as you're getting the ball up in the air.

I am strongly contemplating looking at a set, since I always liked the way they looked. I demo'd them for a bit, but my swing was just plain bad last year and I think it was a worthless to get fit. I feel like my swing is more reliable now, and might be worth testing again. I also second your comment on the occurance of 1 putts. Thanks everyone for chiming in and taking this seriously.

> @JJK947 said:

> > @drscott266 said:

> > That basically confirms what I was thinking, thanks for the response. That theory on Par 5's makes total sense, and is what I am seeing these players do every time. I think it would help if I had reliable long iron/hybrid game... I do not think I am nearly consistent enough in that department. What are thoughts on taking a soft 7 versus a hard 8 type of thing, do you think that plays a role in this convo? my last playing partner couldn't understand why I would hit more club when I could go for a full shot on lesser club. I know this gets real subjective, but plays into my style of play question. Would going to par 5's also go hand in hand with hitting more full speed shots (not flaying hard, just going at it full speed)? I tend to just accept not hitting my irons very far respectively, and usually take smoother 3/4 swings almost, and take the control. I am starting to think that maybe trying more for max stock distances would get me swinging more aggressively than I currently am. But then I fall back on the 74-77 scores and say why change it. I shouldn't let people with different games talk me into something, but I am always open to other theories on the game.

>

> I understand you are a feel/finesse type player, I am the same to a degree. At the short end of the bag, I'm hitting 3/4 shots, flighting the ball, making little adjustments to every shot. The mindset gradually progresses until probably around 200+ it becomes pretty much just full swings with intent of draw/fade and high/low only if needed. I don't think you need to change your entire game/mindset. Maybe just an adjustment when it comes to this particular set of circumstances. What you can do in the 185+ range is usually one of the most glaring differences between a 5 and a scratch.

I am quickly coming to that realization, and thus the equipment change has me curious since I know my swing is what it is pretty much. I am thinking if I can get my 150-200 on the green most of the time I will greatly increase my chances of two putt pars. It's hard to watch people stick it close on you, but thats what makes them scratch.

Ever watch Golf Sidekick on Youtube? His videos focus on course management. I'm a big fan.

I read your post. I have not read any of the responses. #1 Stop comparing yourself to your playing partners. Play your game! #2 Please see #1. If you’re a 5-handicap, you have a decent game.

I am a 2-handicap (2.3 index) and I am the shortest hitter among the top players at our club. My driver swing speed is 100 mph which I am okay with at 61-years of age. My irons are 21-years old so when I pull my pitching wedge, it’s 48*. It cracks me up when I hear I guy with current equipment tell me they’re hitting their 8-iron 170-yards. Hand me your “8-iron” and watch me hit it ~170-yards. Also, I’ll hit it closer ?.

Work on hitting your driver in the fairway and your game from 100-yards in. Watch your scores drop. No matter who you are playing, put blinders on. Good luck!

I switched from a set of 690 CBs to AP3’s so maybe I can comment on how distance irons have changed my game.

First a little bit about my iron/wedge game. I would say that from 7 on down I will flight shots with more of a 3/4 swing as my stock shot. I will occasionally go at a shot full with a short iron if I feel I need to get some extra height on it. Once I get into the 4,5,6 irons however I take more of a full swing. I just don’t have a great feel for flighting clubs of that length. For what it’s worth I carry a full 7 iron (31 loft) about 180.

Since the switch I have noticed that I have gotten a lot better at attacking pins in the 160-180 range. The fact that the club I am using is shorter in length now seems to allow me to work the ball into the section of green I want to much easier in those distances. I have also gotten a little more confident in my ability to hit a quality shot that should be on or very close to the green in the 200-220 range. This I attribute to the 4 and 5 iron in the AP3 to just be a more forgiving easier club to hit. I also added a srixon utility 2 iron for that 230-240 range that has been a great performer (although this is a more recent add).

I would say the switch really benefited me and matches the way I play my iron shots well. I will not be switching back. Say what you will about jacked lofts, my iron game has improved with them.

> @drscott266 said:

> > @Z1ggy16 said:

> > > @drscott266 said:

> > > > @Z1ggy16 said:

> > > > I'd do two things, just my opinion -

> > > >

> > > > 1) Get a SG18 app up and running for about 5-10 rounds. See where you are truly losing strokes. Many times that 3 putt you made might have started all the way back on the tee box due to a yucky drive that left you in the rough.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Get an actual iron fitting if you're actually losing strokes from iron play. In my experience, higher speed players usually don't lose any control from "distance irons" because they have enough CHS to get the ball elevated fast and coming down steeply. It's the slower speed guys that suffer more because they need spin to get the ball in the air.

> > >

> > > Your first suggestion may be what I have been missing, someone at my club got the app that tracks your handicap in each facet and he learned alot about his game. As for irons, I have been fit but it was with the mentality of I wanted Titleist AP2 so the fitter set me up with the best setup for that iron. It was not inclusive of testing other brands and seeing what (if anything) would give me better results. Our logic was I was playing something I felt comfy with, so we would optimize that iron... that defintely only goes so far. Last fitting when I went in open minded it was between TM 790 and Callaway X forged, both went further but I was reluctant to bite due to the lofts. Starting to think a few more yards and some forgiveness with it wouldn't be all that bad, thus the headcase tendencies. I think the previous poster summed it up, either enjoy the losing with the winning or just play for fun.

> >

> > I always thought I was a horrrrriiibbbllee putter, but turns out after using the SG18 feature on 18birdies, I was sometimes actually gaining strokes on putting (relative to my hc), but my tee play was putting me into bad lies for my approaches, which were then hard to get close, leading to sketchy long putts. Also, there comes a point in ones game where it becomes less about 3 putt avoidance, and much more about 1 putt occurrence.

> >

> > 790's are crrraazzzzy forgiving and stupid long. The only reason I sold them for 770's was I felt they were really jumpy high on the face. The 8i was a comfortable 160-165 carry for me and I'll never forget the day I tugged one a little bit, went OB into somebody's back yard just missing their house. I had to have carried that 180-185.... and I wasn't trying to give it extra juice. I still use the 4i though and I haven't had any weird stuff happening so maybe I just happened to have one of the best swings of my life, who knows. I'm kind of tempted to try the new 790's next year or the year after, because the distance is nice, as long as you're getting the ball up in the air.

>

> I am strongly contemplating looking at a set, since I always liked the way they looked. I demo'd them for a bit, but my swing was just plain bad last year and I think it was a worthless to get fit. I feel like my swing is more reliable now, and might be worth testing again. I also second your comment on the occurance of 1 putts. Thanks everyone for chiming in and taking this seriously.

I'd demo the new set then think about buying the OG 790s. I bet you can get them for a steal now. I'd just 100% make sure you are launching these really high because for me... I spun the 6i during my fitting around 4800. That's a little low but luckily my CHS was around 96-98mph, so I didn't have issues holding greens. In all my rounds with them, I never saw the ball pitch then roll crazy far. My 4i stops within 15-20ft of pitch mark.

Again, equipment isn't always the solution but if you analyze your game and you are losing strokes from outside 100 yards (other than tee ball) give it a look.

Update to this... First off, thank you again to all who responded. The advice and thoughts given were very helpful. I had a two man better ball match this weekend, against two people who had the same handicaps as us. I got no strokes, but my partner and his partner got pops on the same holes. I shot a 73 and my partner also beat his cap by a little bit but we ended up getting smoked. They made 4 birdies in the first 6 holes, and ended up with 7 birdies as a team total. I will say I didnt feel the least bit bad having played so well, but I am a little butt hurt about how the other 5 cap shot a 71. It felt kinda scummy when his partner would contribute on a hole he would suddenly have trouble getting out of the rough, or miss a 6 putt when everything else was going in. I get it now, birdies are what win matches... pars just get you a low handicap that is hard to play to. I am unwilling to sandbag, so that will obviously leave me a bit disadvantaged at my place, but the advice of separating matches from scores is the only way to approach this.

I also have decided that players distance irons are likely my next step, as my ballstriking is good but I don't seem to hit the middle of the face enough. I hit it straight enough, just not the right distance on slightly poor strikes with the AP2's. I realized that I have a natural shot shape, and I rarely deviate from it. My head pro just got fit for the T200's and I have never seen him more excited. He is essentially convinced that having les club in is always going to be an advantage, the new lofts are a product of geometry. His decent angle holds greens, and he said the T200 7 iron goes 180 for him as opposed to the T100 he could only get 165. I know my results will vary, but with decent angle in mind I think I can get at least one club longer. They seem to compare to the P790 and Apex's loft wise, so I am at least going to give them a fitting. Any thoughts on those two sets? I am also curious about the Mizuno JPX 919 Forged, but not sure they are as long or as forgiving. My club also can't get them, so hard to try them without paying for another fitting.

As far as the par 5 strategy goes... always go for for them unless there's a PA or OB or bunker that is going to cause you to bring bogey-double into play. You'll not make as near as many birdies on these holes laying up as you will having a little chip or pitch.