Best Driver of 2019 | Full Article _HERE_ | Discussion Thread _HERE_

Player of the year

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  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers Posts: 12,577 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Clearly the players think highly of the Tour Championship and The Players

    Bruce will be getting saltier

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  • SkiSchoolProSkiSchoolPro Members Posts: 779 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My guess is that the vote was really close. No doubt in my mind that the players put a ton of importance on the majors (BK won last year when Rose took the FEC), but Rory winning shows the player care about the Vardon trophy, Players and FEC also.

  • Darth PutterDarth Putter Members Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    The PGA Tour POY dates to 1990 and Rory's third win breaks the tie with Koepka, Price and Couples. His three trophies now trail only Tiger's 11.
    Brooks win of the PGA of America POY is his third straight. This award dates back to 1948 and he joins Tiger Woods and Tom Watson as the only players to win it more than twice in a row.

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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @DrivingChamp said:

    @PZero said:
    Glad to see Rory win. Brooks was getting too cocky.

    Who cares if he’s cocky that is not part of the criteria

    I think the voting said otherwise.

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  • Golf ScientistGolf Scientist Members Posts: 104 ✭✭✭
    edited Sep 12, 2019 2:06am #128

    @PZero said:
    Glad to see Rory win. Brooks was getting too cocky.

    You made me think of a possible new nickname to refer to Brooks : Cock-ka. Also like the nickname [email protected] Both seem to fit with the way he acts / talks. Those may be factors in how some people may have voted. (Can't picture Sergio or Deshampoo voting for someone like Brooks ever). Regardless, Rory definitely deserved to win because of his good play all year.

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  • Golf ScientistGolf Scientist Members Posts: 104 ✭✭✭

    @Dave230 said:
    In terms of PGA or world player of the year, then it's Koepka no question.

    Where are you getting this bogus Koepka world player of the year garbage from?
    Looking at his finished outside the US (from owr website):
    BROOKS KOEPKA
    Event Tour Week Year Finish Rank Points Weight Adj. Points Rank After
    RBC Canadian Open USA 23 2019 T50 1.20 0.9891 1.19 1st
    WGC - Mexico Championship WGC 8 2019 T27 3.31 0.8261 2.73 4th
    Saudi International powered by SBIA EUR 5 2019 T57 - 0.7935 - 2nd
    Abu Dhabi HSBC Championship Presented by EGA EUR 3 2019 T9 6.96 0.7717 5.37 2nd

    Meanwhile:
    RORY MCILROY
    Event Tour Week Year Finish Rank Points Weight Adj. Points Rank After
    Omega European Masters EUR 35 2019 T2 14.63 1 14.63 2nd
    Aberdeen Standard Investments Scottish Open EUR 28 2019 T34 1.78 1 1.78 3rd
    RBC Canadian Open USA 23 2019 1 48.00 0.9891 47.48 3rd
    WGC - Mexico Championship WGC 8 2019 2 43.20 0.8261 35.69 6th

    Clearly Mcilroy's 2nd, 34th, 1st, and 2ND are better than Koepka's 50th, 27th, 57th, and 9th.

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  • jmvargasjmvargas Members Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

    ..Admittedly the PGA may be the weakest of the 4 majors but it IS still a MAJOR.

    the PGA Tour is trying to BUY a major with the Players Championship but it can't be done...

    but I agree it's the closest thing to a major that isn't a major..

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  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmvargas said:

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

    ..Admittedly the PGA may be the weakest of the 4 majors but it IS still a MAJOR.

    the PGA Tour is trying to BUY a major with the Players Championship but it can't be done...

    but I agree it's the closest thing to a major that isn't a major..

    The PGA Tour could squash the PGA Championship and replace it with the Players anytime if it wanted. Why does the PGA being called a major for unexplainable reasons really matter?

  • SavageCySavageCy Parts UnknownMembers Posts: 167 ✭✭✭

    @chigolfer1 said:

    @SavageCy said:
    Rory had the more consistent and therefore better season. Top 10 finishes in 14 of 19 (74%) with 3 wins (0 majors) vs Brooks 9 of 21(43%) with 3 wins (1 major). He also was ahead of Brooks in several other cats from SG tee to green, SG putting, scrambling etc. Numbers don't lie, Rory is POY and for good reason not sure what all the fuss is about.

    Brooks was top 5 in four majors, only four other guys have ever done this (and won one). It's ridiculous that someone would be in this company and lose POY because someone else was in a few more top 10s.

    I think if you asked players on the tour what the hardest thing to do out there is, high up on the list would be bringing it consistently week in and week out which is what Rory did all season. To be in the mix and have a real shot at winning 75% of the tournaments you played in is a pretty good season. This is voted on by the guys that are out there doing it so that has to count for something and I think the numbers back up their decision. As others have said, as big as the majors are a season is made up of more than four weeks.

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  • GolfnutgalenGolfnutgalen Members Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 12, 2019 4:14am #133

    Rory had a super low scoring season judging by strokes gained total which he led by 0.7 strokes over the next best Cantlay (1.2 over Brooks). He also led the adjusted scoring average by 0.3 over Cantlay as well (0.4 over Brooks) so it it completely reasonable that he won player of the year. That said the strokes gained numbers didn't include 3 of the majors which is a pretty big omission...

    In terms of the actual wins by each player I would give them a virtual tie with the Players vs the PGA being basically interchangeable. I would have voted for Brooks all the same though because of his exceptional play in the other 3 majors.

  • Bingo1976Bingo1976 Members Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Whilst I also think Brooks should have shaded it, I would defer to their peers as to who is most deserving of the title.

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  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 3,233 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

    ..Admittedly the PGA may be the weakest of the 4 majors but it IS still a MAJOR.

    the PGA Tour is trying to BUY a major with the Players Championship but it can't be done...

    but I agree it's the closest thing to a major that isn't a major..

    The PGA Tour could squash the PGA Championship and replace it with the Players anytime if it wanted. Why does the PGA being called a major for unexplainable reasons really matter?

    Stop acting like the Majors are just a media construct. There is a lot of history and tradition involved. You can't just "squash" the PGA Championship. It dates back to 1916.

    Look into the history of the 4 majors.

  • Oz MaxOz Max Members Posts: 178 ✭✭✭

    @Bingo1976 said:
    Whilst I also think Brooks should have shaded it, I would defer to their peers as to who is most deserving of the title.

    Yup, hard to argue against peers vote. Had it been decided by a points system, ok. But this was a vote. Rory was elected because most of his peers felt he played better all year. We can be surprised but we won't find any rational explanation.

  • randywildmanrandywildman Members Posts: 887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bingo1976 said:
    Whilst I also think Brooks should have shaded it, I would defer to their peers as to who is most deserving of the title.

    Another reason for Bruce or Broceps to have a huge chip on his shoulder next season. Everybody likes Rory even Brooks might like Rory. The peers have now unleashed the beast, Brooks is gonna be pissed and he has every right to be....

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I thought it would be close but still thought Koepka would win it. To me, the wins are the most important factor when judging each of their seasons, and I thought PGA + WGC > Players + Tour Championship. The other things like high finishes in majors, season Top 10s, others stats (scoring, strokes gained) didn't mean as much.

    The voting is what it is, but I would be really interested to see a poll of how many guys would rather have PGA, WGC, CJ Cup vs. Player's, Tour Championship, RBC ($15 MM and FEC means more to some than others, which could complicate things). Said another way, it seems like the personalities involved had a lot to do with the outcome.

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  • Golf ScientistGolf Scientist Members Posts: 104 ✭✭✭

    @jmvargas said:

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    ..Admittedly the PGA may be the weakest of the 4 majors but it IS still a MAJOR.

    Do the tournaments carrying the title "major" actually have anything better than other tournaments? (No).
    Are they on better courses than the other tournaments? (No).
    Do they have better fields than other tournaments? (No, it could bend argued they have weaker fields than many other tournaments. PGA championship has a bunch of golf course pros who don't have the games to play on tour week in and week out. The Masters has a ton of amateurs. The US Open and (British) Open Championship take the people that happen to get hot in qualifying events.
    Are their course conditions conducive to better players winning? (No, in fact in many cases fast greens - where the grass is on the verge of dying - and drastic slopes are more likely to bring luck into play, and you're more likely to see names you've never heard of before in contention). You are more likely to have a one hit wonder win a major than most other tour events (exception being tournaments like the John Deer where the field is so weak you are almost guaranteed to get a winner you've never heard of).
    Just because something carries the moniker "major" doesn't mean it going to be any better than other events. The majors are just "hyped" by the media more than other tournaments.

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  • BaddsBadds Members Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

    ..Admittedly the PGA may be the weakest of the 4 majors but it IS still a MAJOR.

    the PGA Tour is trying to BUY a major with the Players Championship but it can't be done...

    but I agree it's the closest thing to a major that isn't a major..

    The PGA Tour could squash the PGA Championship and replace it with the Players anytime if it wanted. Why does the PGA being called a major for unexplainable reasons really matter?

    Did the PGA Championship abuse you when you were a child?

  • Dave230Dave230 Members Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golf Scientist said:

    @Dave230 said:
    In terms of PGA or world player of the year, then it's Koepka no question.

    Where are you getting this bogus Koepka world player of the year garbage from?
    Looking at his finished outside the US (from owr website):
    BROOKS KOEPKA
    Event Tour Week Year Finish Rank Points Weight Adj. Points Rank After
    RBC Canadian Open USA 23 2019 T50 1.20 0.9891 1.19 1st
    WGC - Mexico Championship WGC 8 2019 T27 3.31 0.8261 2.73 4th
    Saudi International powered by SBIA EUR 5 2019 T57 - 0.7935 - 2nd
    Abu Dhabi HSBC Championship Presented by EGA EUR 3 2019 T9 6.96 0.7717 5.37 2nd

    Meanwhile:
    RORY MCILROY
    Event Tour Week Year Finish Rank Points Weight Adj. Points Rank After
    Omega European Masters EUR 35 2019 T2 14.63 1 14.63 2nd
    Aberdeen Standard Investments Scottish Open EUR 28 2019 T34 1.78 1 1.78 3rd
    RBC Canadian Open USA 23 2019 1 48.00 0.9891 47.48 3rd
    WGC - Mexico Championship WGC 8 2019 2 43.20 0.8261 35.69 6th

    Clearly Mcilroy's 2nd, 34th, 1st, and 2ND are better than Koepka's 50th, 27th, 57th, and 9th.

    He won a major, Rory didn't. He contended all majors, Rory didn't. So for Rory to make up that ground he needs 2-3 more wins than Koepka. He doesn't, they both won 3 times. The consistency doesn't beat the major when they've won the same amount and one player won a major.

  • OldTomMorrisOldTomMorris Edinburgh, ScotlandMembers Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

    This is simply wrong to suggest its only the media calling it a major. Everyone in golf recognises these 4 tournaments are a notch above the rest. They carry more prestige with players, sponsors, the other tours etc. plus they are recognised as more important with OWGR points, FedEx Cup points etc.
    I'd actually suggest its mostly the PGA Tour and their media partners that tell us that the Players is the equal of say the PGA, which it's not if you ask the overwhelming majority of people who take an interest in golf.

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  • GoGoErkyGoGoErky Members Posts: 1,652 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Guys who play with each week in week out have a better handle on what’s important and who is worthy of awards. I’m glad the players and not fans/journalists get to choose the winner.

    Players got it right.

  • OldTomMorrisOldTomMorris Edinburgh, ScotlandMembers Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoGoErky said:
    Guys who play with each week in week out have a better handle on what’s important and who is worthy of awards. I’m glad the players and not fans/journalists get to choose the winner.

    Players got it right.

    So you don't think players aren't effected by recency bias like many fans, media etc. often are. They'll be players voting on this that have never watched any or very little of the golf (Rory and Brooks) on TV or live in person because they are consistently slogging away at the lower end of the field. To generalise that all players automatically know more is wrong.

    I stated as soon as Rory won the Fed Ex and the debate started that I suspected the players would go for Rory but I believed Brooks probably deserved it. Neither choice can be definitely declared right or wrong as its subjective. Players didn't get it right (or wrong).

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  • bbedellbbedell Members Posts: 140 ✭✭✭

    @GoGoErky said:
    Guys who play with each week in week out have a better handle on what’s important and who is worthy of awards. I’m glad the players and not fans/journalists get to choose the winner.

    Players got it right.

    And not at all influenced by who guys like and are friendly with, personal feelings, etc right? Brooks won the eye test, and the PGA POY was the correct result. I'm not sure why we need a PGA POY and PGA Tour POY, but I'd say this result clearly indicates the bias involved when you allow guys to vote for their peers vs an actual numerical system to determine the winner.

  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @straightshot7 said:

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

    ..Admittedly the PGA may be the weakest of the 4 majors but it IS still a MAJOR.

    the PGA Tour is trying to BUY a major with the Players Championship but it can't be done...

    but I agree it's the closest thing to a major that isn't a major..

    The PGA Tour could squash the PGA Championship and replace it with the Players anytime if it wanted. Why does the PGA being called a major for unexplainable reasons really matter?

    Stop acting like the Majors are just a media construct. There is a lot of history and tradition involved. You can't just "squash" the PGA Championship. It dates back to 1916.

    Look into the history of the 4 majors.

    I think you need to brush up on the history yourself. The BMW (fka the Western Open) has a tremendous history. So what? The PGA was a major because the Tour was part of the PGA years ago. Once the Tour broke off, there really isn’t a reason for it to be a major other than historical legacy. The Players is now the premier Tour event. For those not brainwashed by what the media calls a “major”, the Players has as much or more significance. Obviously the Tour players must think so given this year’s vote.

  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 12, 2019 10:53am #148

    @OldTomMorris said:

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

    This is simply wrong to suggest its only the media calling it a major. Everyone in golf recognises these 4 tournaments are a notch above the rest. They carry more prestige with players, sponsors, the other tours etc. plus they are recognised as more important with OWGR points, FedEx Cup points etc.
    I'd actually suggest its mostly the PGA Tour and their media partners that tell us that the Players is the equal of say the PGA, which it's not if you ask the overwhelming majority of people who take an interest in golf.

    You are just baselessly speculating. The PGA Championship does not confer more FedEx points than the Players. It is the same. Golf fans I know don’t consider the PGA more prestigious than the Players.

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,888 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 12, 2019 11:18am #149

    @Golf Scientist said:

    @PZero said:
    Glad to see Rory win. Brooks was getting too cocky.

    You made me think of a possible new nickname to refer to Brooks : Cock-ka. Also like the nickname [email protected] Both seem to fit with the way he acts / talks. Those may be factors in how some people may have voted. (Can't picture Sergio or Deshampoo voting for someone like Brooks ever). Regardless, Rory definitely deserved to win because of his good play all year.

    @randywildman said:

    @Bingo1976 said:
    Whilst I also think Brooks should have shaded it, I would defer to their peers as to who is most deserving of the title.

    Another reason for Bruce or Broceps to have a huge chip on his shoulder next season. Everybody likes Rory even Brooks might like Rory. The peers have now unleashed the beast, Brooks is gonna be pissed and he has every right to be....

    Tell him to scratch his mad spot and smell his finger.

    Post edited by bladehunter on
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  • OldTomMorrisOldTomMorris Edinburgh, ScotlandMembers Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 12, 2019 11:04am #150

    @LICC said:

    @OldTomMorris said:

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

    This is simply wrong to suggest its only the media calling it a major. Everyone in golf recognises these 4 tournaments are a notch above the rest. They carry more prestige with players, sponsors, the other tours etc. plus they are recognised as more important with OWGR points, FedEx Cup points etc.
    I'd actually suggest its mostly the PGA Tour and their media partners that tell us that the Players is the equal of say the PGA, which it's not if you ask the overwhelming majority of people who take an interest in golf.

    You are just baselessly speculating. The PGA Championship does not confer more FedEx points than the Players. It is the same. Golf fans I know don’t consider the PGA more prestigious than the Players.

    Its not baseless nor is it speculation. PGA Tour decides Fed Ex Cup points hence they elevate the Players onto the same level but pretty much everyone else sees it differently except you and your friends.

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  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @OldTomMorris said:

    @LICC said:

    @OldTomMorris said:

    @LICC said:

    @jmvargas said:
    I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

    even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

    these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..
    imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

    but that's just me..

    The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

    This is simply wrong to suggest its only the media calling it a major. Everyone in golf recognises these 4 tournaments are a notch above the rest. They carry more prestige with players, sponsors, the other tours etc. plus they are recognised as more important with OWGR points, FedEx Cup points etc.
    I'd actually suggest its mostly the PGA Tour and their media partners that tell us that the Players is the equal of say the PGA, which it's not if you ask the overwhelming majority of people who take an interest in golf.

    You are just baselessly speculating. The PGA Championship does not confer more FedEx points than the Players. It is the same. Golf fans I know don’t consider the PGA more prestigious than the Players.

    Its not baseless nor is it speculation. PGA Tour decides Fed Ex Cup points hence they elevate the Players onto the same level but pretty much everyone else sees it differently except you and your friends.

    You made the incorrect statement about FedEx points. I corrected you. Your statement that everyone in golf places the PGA above the Players is baseless speculation. As is your comment that everyone sees it differently than me. Just look above in this thread for others that have the same view as me.

This discussion has been closed.