Best Driver of 2019 | Full Article _HERE_ | Discussion Thread _HERE_

Best driver .............ever

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  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer Members Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @mahonie said:
    The other thing that skews the comparisons is that the first cut of rough is counted as ‘fairway’ for the PGA Tour Shots Gained stats, so the modern guys aren’t as accurate as is being made out. The other thing to consider is the conditioning of modern courses.

    Agreed. Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned is that the guys back in the 1970s were playing persimmon and balata. People forget that.

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  • LICCLICC Members Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @mahonie said:
    The other thing that skews the comparisons is that the first cut of rough is counted as ‘fairway’ for the PGA Tour Shots Gained stats, so the modern guys aren’t as accurate as is being made out. The other thing to consider is the conditioning of modern courses.

    Agreed. Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned is that the guys back in the 1970s were playing persimmon and balata. People forget that.

    And not only that, they played with clubs with wood heads and balls that were wound and spun a lot

  • gvogelgvogel Members Posts: 7,764 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I want to throw Tom Weiskopf into the discussion. He wasn’t wired to win majors. He certainly wasn’t the clutch putter that Nicklaus was. But Weiskopf was plenty long and straight.

    Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
  • Night trainNight train Members Posts: 2,871 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @gvogel said:
    I want to throw Tom Weiskopf into the discussion. He wasn’t wired to win majors. He certainly wasn’t the clutch putter that Nicklaus was. But Weiskopf was plenty long and straight.

    His swing was pure elegance!

  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,294 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @jgonz69 said:
    For those slobbering over nicklaus
    https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2018/12/14/john-daly-davis-love-iii-greg-norman-drivers-driving.html

    Q: What about Jack?

    NORMAN: “Look, Jack was a good driver, I don’t think he was a great driver. I mean, a great driver of the golf ball is when you can put it out there and every time, there’s no fear, you’re just going at it. I’d put Jack in probably the top dozen.”

    Is he insane?

    Is he measuring jack when he played head to head with jack when jack was old?

    What a moron.

  • jgonz69jgonz69 Members Posts: 793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I got it, norman hits a banana slice on 18, therefore he cannot comment on nicklaus’ driving.
    Plus its funny how we discount Normans opinion when it contradicts peoples opinion of how great of a driver nicklaus was.

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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 29, 2019 5:29am #158

    @Christosterone said:
    Jack
    Or Vijay’s reverse c made in exact imitation if jack

    Makes sense, Vij grew up devouring Jack's "Golf My Way" book and copying everything about Jack.
    It also didn't hurt he was the pro that hit the most balls for almost 2 decades. Always 1st and last to leave the range and practice areas in all weather.

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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JD3 said:
    Before my time but apparently Nicklaus sprayed it all over the place...but he had 50 yards on the field. Norman from what I remember just never seemed to be in trouble off the tee...like almost literally never. For someone with his length that's incredible. So given what I've read or seen, I'd go:

    Hogan (steel shaft era) as he was considered best ball striker all time, so that must also include driver
    Norman (graphite shaft/metal head era)
    Rory (titanium head era)

    Problem describing Norman. He started in 60s w/ Persimmon and Balata and kept using it through the 80s as did most of the tour.
    Only in the 90s did he switch to Cobra metal head and steel shaft w/ the Spalding ball first wound balata then sold core in late 90s.

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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JD3 said:

    @Night train said:

    @JD3 said:
    Before my time but apparently Nicklaus sprayed it all over the place...but he had 50 yards on the field. Norman from what I remember just never seemed to be in trouble off the tee...like almost literally never. For someone with his length that's incredible. So given what I've read or seen, I'd go:
    Hogan (steel shaft era) as he was considered best ball striker all time, so that must also include driver
    Norman (graphite shaft/metal head era)
    Rory (titanium head era)

    Nicklaus didn't win 18 majors spraying it all over the place

    >
    Tiger won most of his 15 without nutting it off the tee. In one British open he only hit driver 1x. Nicklaus would also follow a similar tact (though not as extreme) by hitting 3 wood or long irons off the tee.

    Masters of course not included which everyone knows has no rough.
    You also forget US Open goal of par finish also eliminated driver most years except for a few holes esp. par5s.

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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 29, 2019 6:52am #161

    @Cwebb said:

    @Night train said:

    @QuigleyDU said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @Hawkeye77 said:
    Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

    Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

    I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

    I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

    I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

    A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

    Most tour pro did. Game was different back then. Accuracy with distance over raw power "bomb n' gouge". Rough was always longer and fairways weren't as tightly mowed either.

    Most winners on tour favored the shot maker who shaped/ curved every shot. No one played a straight ball, everyone played either draw &/or fade as needed and had other shots like punches and running shots.

    Post edited by aabcuue on
    a 17TM M1 460 9.5* Matrix BlackTie X 45"
    b 16Cobra KingLtd9* Rogue SilverI/O 110msi 60s 45.5" 1"tip
    c Ping G25 8.5* Tour 70x 45"

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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dpb5031 said:

    @QuigleyDU said:

    @LICC said:

    @QuigleyDU said:

    @dpb5031 said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @Cwebb said:

    @Night train said:

    @QuigleyDU said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @Hawkeye77 said:
    Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

    Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

    I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

    I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

    I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

    A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

    Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".
    Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

    Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

    In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

    I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

    Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

    Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

    The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

    Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

    "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

    I agree he had power, but an average of 276 to 300 "when I wanted to" seems a bit of a stretch to me. Maybe he measures things the way a lot of us do. We see 400 yard hole on the sign, we look at a sprinkler head and see 100 yards in on the sprinker and say "We hit it 300 yards". When the reality is it probably was less. Know what I mean?

    Playing today he probably would have been among the longer hitters. It all depends, His high fade with todays equipment may not be all that efficient. But I would think he would be considered long. Even among the bombers today.

    Yea, that fade is really killing DJ, JB Holmes, Finau, and a number of other long hitters on Tour these days.

    There's a real misunderstanding about the old ball and old equipment. It generally didn't pay to go after it at nearly 100% effort on every shot like today's guys do with 460cc titanium and the much lower spinning solid urethane ball. It's not inconceivable in the least to believe that Jack could call on an extra 24 yards above his 276 avg.

    Huge difference in amount of forgiveness and MOI on the old drivers. You had a similar dime size sweet spot or the shot was in the rough or worse.
    Uniformity of equipment wasn't, every club was slightly different if only size, weight, setup and feel. All adjustments were done via layers of lead tape and many hrs on the range to find what worked "digging it out of the dirt".

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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Aug 29, 2019 6:53am #163

    @LICC said:

    @QuigleyDU said:

    @dpb5031 said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @Cwebb said:

    @Night train said:

    @QuigleyDU said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @Hawkeye77 said:
    Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

    Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

    I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

    I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

    I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

    >

    Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

    The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

    There was a heavy wind directly into the shot, and he hit the flag stick.

    Into a 20-35mph wind, which was 4or5 clubs more for most players.

    Post edited by aabcuue on
    a 17TM M1 460 9.5* Matrix BlackTie X 45"
    b 16Cobra KingLtd9* Rogue SilverI/O 110msi 60s 45.5" 1"tip
    c Ping G25 8.5* Tour 70x 45"

    Titleist 915fd 15* RIP Phenom70s 1"tip
    Cobra BafflerPro19* SpeederProS .5"tip
    Cobra Baffler RailH23* SpeederProS

    CallawayX20Tour 5-pw ProjectX 6.0 +.5"
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  • aabcuueaabcuue Members Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @QuigleyDU said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @LICC said:

    @QuigleyDU said:

    @dpb5031 said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @Cwebb said:

    @Night train said:

    @QuigleyDU said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @Hawkeye77 said:
    Nicklaus and Norman at the top, IMO. It’s more than a little close, lol.

    Rory still has a career to finish and still runs hot and not so hot.

    I agree, but I wouldn't put Norman in the same league as Nicklaus. A lot of people don't realize that Nicklaus played with an inferior golf ball for much of his career out of respect and loyalty to MacGregor Golf Company. He still hit it by many of his competitors, and had two more gears when he wanted them. He didn't often use those gears out of respect.

    I feel like this is comment is more Paul Bunyan than fact. It is soo hard to say due to so little info other than Hyperbole. First hand witness is biased and untrustworthy. jack was good that is no doubt, but I just wonder how good. It is the some old generational debate that there is no way of ever deciding definitively.

    I watched Jack give a clinic in 1975 before playing an exhibition. They had the first fairway marked with yardage grids and he went thru his bag hitting shots. He hit an 8 iron and said this is my 145 club and hit it 145............and then I stood dumbfounded as hit the 8 iron again............."but I always have some in reserve, and flew it to the 185 yard marker"

    A 3 club reserve? He must have really had a "smooth" stock swing

    Don't forget the extra 65 yards with the driver "when he really wanted to".
    Why didn't he ever want to, you ask? On a 530 yard par-5, why wouldn't he rather have 189 in instead of 254? Don't ask those questions.

    Why not ask? The proof is actually there if you take a moment to check. I never realized that recency bias was such a real thing...lol...

    In 1970 Jack drove the 18th at Saint Andrew's with a crack of over 360 yards. He won two long drive titles when they used to hold them as part of PGA Championship week, one being 341 yards. Countless times he had irons in on par 5s when the rest of the field couldn't even reach with fairway woods. Jack was very long, and straight, and it wasnt a one-off. 43 inch steel shafted persimmon. The numbers, the records, and the first-hand testimonials are all there.

    I'm not taking anything away from guys like Norman, Mcliroy, or whoever else, but no one managed the long game to his advantage greater than Jack. His driving and overall long game were so good that he won prolifically without even being very sharp (relative to the field) with his full wedge play and chipping game.

    Recency bias is just as real as nostalgia bia. I think we are all prone to remember the good ol days. Maybe with a bit of rose tint to it. Jack was great, he was the great'est! I do not argue his record. I just think that one off's like you mentioned are remember as the norm and not the exception. Remember the longest drive ever up till just a few years ago was hit with a persimmons driver... So yes, in the right conditions, a ballata ball and a wood could combine for some extreme distance even today. But is was far from the norm, he probably ave around 270 off the tee. Which was very long for its time.

    Remember he hit a 1 iron at 17 at pebble. that is ~208 yards. Yes, there was wind, and equipment was old. But still a 208 1 iron.

    The greatness is not in the length but that he hit that shot to a couple inches... That is the greatness.

    Jack Nicklaus- "AT OAKMONT it quickly became apparent that my length was an advantage. My distance gave me shorter clubs into those firm greens. How far did I hit it back then? It's hard to equate the distances to how far players hit the ball today, but I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to. I knocked a lot of balls out of round. I always started a round with three MacGregor Tourney wound balata balls. I marked them using a pencil, two little indentations, actually, on each side of the number. That's how soft the covers were. I'd play a hole with a ball, knock it out of round, then put it in my bag to "rest." Over the course of half an hour, it would regain its shape. While it rested, I'd rotate in another ball."

    "... I could hit it 300 yards under normal conditions when I needed to."

    Knowing how humble he is, it was probably closer to 325.
    Despite it being an admittedly huge advantage, he just didn't want to do it very often.

    For years Austin was well known by professional golfers for his length off the tee. But it was one drive in 1974 that secured his name in history. While playing in the U.S. National Seniors Tournament, at the Winterwood Golf Course (now the Desert Rose) Austin was put in a foursome with PGA Champion Chandler Harper. After hitting several 400-yard drives, Chandler said, "Mike, let's see you really let one go." Austin drove the green on 450-yard par 4. It carried to the edge of the green, bounced over and rolled past the pin and off the back edge. In a 2003 interview, Chandler said he found a ball on the next tee box and called to Austin, "This is impossible, but there is a ball over here." They identified the ball as Austin's and stepped off the distance back to the center of the green. The drive was 515 yards. GBWW no longer recognizes the world's longest drive in their book.

    Several factors make this record feat especially amazing, although there was a tailwind estimated at 25 mph. The drive was done on level ground, using a persimmon wood driver with 10 degrees of loft and a 43.5" extra-stiff steel shaft, the ball was a soft balata and Mike Austin was 64 years old. The improved technology of today should achieve far greater distances in the same conditions.

    >
    A friend took many lessons with Mike. He would normally hit drives 300yds and 400yd monthly esp. during the summer.

    Remember reading his record as being measured to 565yds not 515yds.

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  • Man_O_WarMan_O_War Members Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @gvogel said:
    I want to throw Tom Weiskopf into the discussion. He wasn’t wired to win majors. He certainly wasn’t the clutch putter that Nicklaus was. But Weiskopf was plenty long and straight.

    Heard all you had to do was outdrive Weiskopf and his game would come to pieces. Fragile ego. Better yet, they would walk to his ball and have him walk to the longer ball to find it wasn't his.. There are mind games on tour..Swing was pure elegance.

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  • ChristosteroneChristosterone Reverse C ClubWRX Posts: 1,502 ClubWRX

    Weiskopf is among the most underrated ball striker to ever play golf...
    He is the Dustin Johnson of his era....awe inspiring game but his putter makes him feel a bit snake bitten...

    He an Johnny Miller shown like shooting stars...though Johnny was a bit brighter...
    Weiskopf was a boss off the tee and with his long irons...



    -Chris

    @gvogel said:
    I want to throw Tom Weiskopf into the discussion. He wasn’t wired to win majors. He certainly wasn’t the clutch putter that Nicklaus was. But Weiskopf was plenty long and straight.

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  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,490 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    glad to see this thread became what i expected... troll city

  • JD3JD3 Members Posts: 4,964 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @aabcuue said:

    @JD3 said:

    @Night train said:

    @JD3 said:
    Before my time but apparently Nicklaus sprayed it all over the place...but he had 50 yards on the field. Norman from what I remember just never seemed to be in trouble off the tee...like almost literally never. For someone with his length that's incredible. So given what I've read or seen, I'd go:
    Hogan (steel shaft era) as he was considered best ball striker all time, so that must also include driver
    Norman (graphite shaft/metal head era)
    Rory (titanium head era)

    Nicklaus didn't win 18 majors spraying it all over the place

    >
    Tiger won most of his 15 without nutting it off the tee. In one British open he only hit driver 1x. Nicklaus would also follow a similar tact (though not as extreme) by hitting 3 wood or long irons off the tee.

    Masters of course not included which everyone knows has no rough.
    You also forget US Open goal of par finish also eliminated driver most years except for a few holes esp. par5s.

    Don't think it's coincidence tiger and Jack won more masters than any other major.

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  • RmatzenRmatzen Members Posts: 11 ✭✭

    @gvogel said:

    @Rmatzen said:

    @Bye said:
    Rory has to be the best since the equipment change. He has the most variety in shot making with driver, along with his power and being completely fearless with it.

    Is Adam Scott a worthy mention though! He must be close in the conversation.

    Norman was incredible with the old gear, and probably the best of his generation.

    I think this is really important- Rory has a great inventory of shots off the tee that Jack just didn't have. However, for raw power and ability to get it done off the tee, you can't count Nicklaus out. Jack was so smooth he even switched to a regular flex shaft while on tour. Lots of power left in the tank I think.

    I have a feeling that Jack had a great inventory of shots off the tee as well. Also, Jack used a stiff shaft tipped a bit, but not an X-flex like many of the other long hitters of his era.

    In his book he said he moved to a regular flex for at least a few years when on tour. Might have switched back after and came on with a stiff, but he said he did swing a regular for a bit of time at least.

  • RmatzenRmatzen Members Posts: 11 ✭✭

    @Roadking2003 said:

    @Rmatzen said:
    I think this is really important- Rory has a great inventory of shots off the tee that Jack just didn't have.

    For example ??

    Rory just has a naturally flatter swing, which makes hitting draws / low draws a bit more natural for him. However, you cut off an important part of my quote, which is that Jack could just get it done. He was smoother and more consistent than Rory (obviously Rory's driving was almost perfect at the Tour Championship, but overall I'd bet Jack had better driving accuracy). His more upright swing path promotes that. If it's a terribly windy day, I think Rory is going to have an easier time keeping the ball down.

  • mosesgolfmosesgolf Members Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @JD3 said:

    @aabcuue said:

    @JD3 said:

    @Night train said:

    @JD3 said:
    Before my time but apparently Nicklaus sprayed it all over the place...but he had 50 yards on the field. Norman from what I remember just never seemed to be in trouble off the tee...like almost literally never. For someone with his length that's incredible. So given what I've read or seen, I'd go:
    Hogan (steel shaft era) as he was considered best ball striker all time, so that must also include driver
    Norman (graphite shaft/metal head era)
    Rory (titanium head era)

    Nicklaus didn't win 18 majors spraying it all over the place

    >
    Tiger won most of his 15 without nutting it off the tee. In one British open he only hit driver 1x. Nicklaus would also follow a similar tact (though not as extreme) by hitting 3 wood or long irons off the tee.

    Masters of course not included which everyone knows has no rough.
    You also forget US Open goal of par finish also eliminated driver most years except for a few holes esp. par5s.

    Don't think it's coincidence tiger and Jack won more masters than any other major.

    Best putters of all time.

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  • jdowning111jdowning111 USAFJeffD Omaha, NebraskaMembers Posts: 102 ✭✭✭

    Greg Norman.....his driver was a weapon during the prime of his career

  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,490 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @JD3 said:

    @aabcuue said:

    @JD3 said:

    @Night train said:

    @JD3 said:
    Before my time but apparently Nicklaus sprayed it all over the place...but he had 50 yards on the field. Norman from what I remember just never seemed to be in trouble off the tee...like almost literally never. For someone with his length that's incredible. So given what I've read or seen, I'd go:
    Hogan (steel shaft era) as he was considered best ball striker all time, so that must also include driver
    Norman (graphite shaft/metal head era)
    Rory (titanium head era)

    Nicklaus didn't win 18 majors spraying it all over the place

    >
    Tiger won most of his 15 without nutting it off the tee. In one British open he only hit driver 1x. Nicklaus would also follow a similar tact (though not as extreme) by hitting 3 wood or long irons off the tee.

    Masters of course not included which everyone knows has no rough.
    You also forget US Open goal of par finish also eliminated driver most years except for a few holes esp. par5s.

    Don't think it's coincidence tiger and Jack won more masters than any other major.

    also helps that theyre the 2 greatest putters ever...

  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,490 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
  • JD3JD3 Members Posts: 4,964 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @lowheel said:

    Hate to say it but kinda looks like the hammer's swing

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  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,490 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Jacks tree trunk legs on full display here. insane leg action and hip turn. Absolutely vaporized his drives

  • lowheellowheel LOWHEEL Members Posts: 6,490 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 27,294 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 5, 2019 1:37am #179

    @lowheel said:

    Fantastic, lh!

    I love how we see, incrementally, how TW loses the ridiculous, Gumby, like flexibility over the years that he had when he just came out.

    By 2006, his flexibility is way less and he can’t hold his follow through nearly as much as 4 or 5 years earlier.

    I’m all for strength training, but you wonder if his total training regiment, perhaps due to his routine not being balanced, is responsible.

    Maybe he is just one of those guys who was born built perfectly for his sport and didn’t need to train. I don’t blame him. Who wants to be called “erkel”? But just can’t help think, for him, just not the right workout regiment.

  • Man_O_WarMan_O_War Members Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @LICC said:

    @Ashley Schaeffer said:

    @mahonie said:
    The other thing that skews the comparisons is that the first cut of rough is counted as ‘fairway’ for the PGA Tour Shots Gained stats, so the modern guys aren’t as accurate as is being made out. The other thing to consider is the conditioning of modern courses.

    Agreed. Another thing that hasn’t been mentioned is that the guys back in the 1970s were playing persimmon and balata. People forget that.

    And not only that, they played with clubs with wood heads and balls that were wound and spun a lot

    had a laugh. wasn't sure if this was tongue in cheek lol.

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