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4 Years Playing (frustration, observations, and what I've learned)

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  • AlecEmersonGolfAlecEmersonGolf Members Posts: 585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not trying to be a downer.

    If you consistently shoot in the 80s you have no place trying to give others advice.

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  • BKN1964BKN1964 Members Posts: 997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jvincent said:

    @RainShadow said:

    @jvincent said:

    @youfromjoisey said:
    Awesome advice and I wish I'd followed that 30 years ago when i took up golf. I agree with all of your points, short game is key. Driver is a driver if you hit it right.

    You'd think by now that the myth of short game being key would have disappeared with all the data we have now.

    If you cannot get the ball in play consistently with driver no amount of short game will help you to go low. Scratching out doubles and bogies because you can't keep the ball in play off the tee is not good golf.

    I have hovered between a 6 and 7 for years until early last year when my driving went south. Index balloned to an 11 because I was losing 3-4 shots per round off the tee. Once I got the driver sorted out I got back into the 7's.

    Well, I hit 70-75 % of my fairways and average 31 putts per round, Per GolfShot app over the past year.
    My index has risen to 10.0 (been as low as 6.6) due to erratic iron play and mediocre pitching and chipping.
    So that goes against your theory.
    If you watch the pros, or even low cap am's, they all get up and down from their bad shots/misses...
    And Drivers are easier to hit than ever....

    Somebody on another forum had a good way of capturing this.

    Paraphrasing, your tee to green game sets the limit for your scoring potential. Your short game is what maximizes that potential. In your particular case your iron game (the second half of tee to green) is the first problem and then it comes down to short game. So yes, your driver isn't costing you strokes because you are keeping it in play. Work on your irons and chipping. FWIW, my iron play and chipping are what have me back in the 8's right now.

    For the majority of higher handicappers I see, that is not the case. Balls are flying into hazards, forests, and OB all the time. Until you can get the ball either on the green or within 10 yards of it 17/18 times per round, I would argue that you should be focusing more on your long game than short game.

    I'll make an exception for anyone who averages over 34 putts per round. There's no reason for that.

    I like this. This is where I am right now. I've accepted that it takes me a certain number of strokes to get within 100 yards of the green. It frustrates me to no end to then blow it from there due to a bad short game.

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,898 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 9, 2019 10:20pm #34

    @jvincent said:

    @youfromjoisey said:
    Awesome advice and I wish I'd followed that 30 years ago when i took up golf. I agree with all of your points, short game is key. Driver is a driver if you hit it right.

    You'd think by now that the myth of short game being key would have disappeared with all the data we have now.

    If you cannot get the ball in play consistently with driver no amount of short game will help you to go low. Scratching out doubles and bogies because you can't keep the ball in play off the tee is not good golf.

    I have hovered between a 6 and 7 for years until early last year when my driving went south. Index balloned to an 11 because I was losing 3-4 shots per round off the tee. Once I got the driver sorted out I got back into the 7's.

    Maybe tell the whole story. Driver alone doesn’t “ gain strokes “. You still have to put it in the hole. Half story either way is still wrong. Sorry to sound harsh. But I can tell you the same exact story except with putter instead of driver. It all matters

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  • jvincentjvincent Members Posts: 807 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:

    @jvincent said:

    @youfromjoisey said:
    Awesome advice and I wish I'd followed that 30 years ago when i took up golf. I agree with all of your points, short game is key. Driver is a driver if you hit it right.

    You'd think by now that the myth of short game being key would have disappeared with all the data we have now.

    If you cannot get the ball in play consistently with driver no amount of short game will help you to go low. Scratching out doubles and bogies because you can't keep the ball in play off the tee is not good golf.

    I have hovered between a 6 and 7 for years until early last year when my driving went south. Index balloned to an 11 because I was losing 3-4 shots per round off the tee. Once I got the driver sorted out I got back into the 7's.

    Maybe tell the whole story. Driver alone doesn’t “ gain strokes “. You still have to put it in the hole. Half story either way is still wrong. Sorry to sound harsh. But I can tell you the same exact story except with putter instead of driver. It all matters

    For us hacks, it's less about strokes gained as it is about strokes lost.

    I'm not saying that short game doesn't matter. But it only matters if you can reliably get the ball in play and close to the green in regulation.

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  • BarfolomewBarfolomew #worstWRXer Members Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Your putter is too short.... Kills me to see guys all bent over with a 34" putter. How can you putt when you're tense. I'm 6'1" and use a 41" putter and love it. Stand up tall no stress on back and am very relaxed and can practice for a long while with no aches. A la Raymond Floyd or even Rickie. And if you must qualify me I went from bogey golf to scratch in less then a year...

    Range is your friend not your enemy.... just how you use it is all like all things

    My belief that coaches should teach people to work the ball way earlier then is the norm... like guys who shoot in the 90s. Teaches you to coach your self. When you see a ball flight you understand why its doing that and how to repeat or correct. I talk to waaaay too many guys who shoot in the 80s that aint got a clue on the 3 ways to work a ball cause there's only 3 lol.

    I'll add a tidbit for you rooks..... (Besides Driver obviously) you're hitting down on the ball not picking it off the ground. Dont be afraid to hit the ground and your divot should start right in front of the ball...

    I like you're zeal tho.... tell em bro!

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:

    @jvincent said:

    @youfromjoisey said:
    Awesome advice and I wish I'd followed that 30 years ago when i took up golf. I agree with all of your points, short game is key. Driver is a driver if you hit it right.

    You'd think by now that the myth of short game being key would have disappeared with all the data we have now.

    If you cannot get the ball in play consistently with driver no amount of short game will help you to go low. Scratching out doubles and bogies because you can't keep the ball in play off the tee is not good golf.

    I have hovered between a 6 and 7 for years until early last year when my driving went south. Index balloned to an 11 because I was losing 3-4 shots per round off the tee. Once I got the driver sorted out I got back into the 7's.

    Maybe tell the whole story. Driver alone doesn’t “ gain strokes “. You still have to put it in the hole. Half story either way is still wrong. Sorry to sound harsh. But I can tell you the same exact story except with putter instead of driver. It all matters

    That is exactly the point of SG, it tells you how much each aspect of the game matters, for that individual. A majority lose the most from tee to green, but there are certainly always outliers. The point isnt to discount short game, it's to analyze your game such that you know what you need to work on the most. Spending 4-5 hours on the practice green and 30 minutes hitting balls doesnt make sense if you are blasting 2-3 balls OB per round and only hitting a handful of greens

  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:
    Maybe tell the whole story. Driver alone doesn’t “ gain strokes “. You still have to put it in the hole. Half story either way is still wrong. Sorry to sound harsh. But I can tell you the same exact story except with putter instead of driver. It all matters

    Its a bit of semantics, but I'd say the driver CAN gain strokes. By that I mean that driving the ball well can put you in position to score well. You can lose those "gained" strokes by performing poorly in other facets of the game. Yes, it takes all facets of the game. This is where the conventional wisdom is off, suggesting that short game is much more important that full-swing game. This is where the OP is off, by suggesting that working on a driving range is a bad idea, but practicing primarily your wedges is a good idea. For MOST players, the path to significant long-term improvement runs right through improving the full swing.

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,898 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Krt22 said:

    @bladehunter said:

    @jvincent said:

    @youfromjoisey said:
    Awesome advice and I wish I'd followed that 30 years ago when i took up golf. I agree with all of your points, short game is key. Driver is a driver if you hit it right.

    You'd think by now that the myth of short game being key would have disappeared with all the data we have now.

    If you cannot get the ball in play consistently with driver no amount of short game will help you to go low. Scratching out doubles and bogies because you can't keep the ball in play off the tee is not good golf.

    I have hovered between a 6 and 7 for years until early last year when my driving went south. Index balloned to an 11 because I was losing 3-4 shots per round off the tee. Once I got the driver sorted out I got back into the 7's.

    Maybe tell the whole story. Driver alone doesn’t “ gain strokes “. You still have to put it in the hole. Half story either way is still wrong. Sorry to sound harsh. But I can tell you the same exact story except with putter instead of driver. It all matters

    That is exactly the point of SG, it tells you how much each aspect of the game matters, for that individual. A majority lose the most from tee to green, but there are certainly always outliers. The point isnt to discount short game, it's to analyze your game such that you know what you need to work on the most. Spending 4-5 hours on the practice green and 30 minutes hitting balls doesnt make sense if you are blasting 2-3 balls OB per round and only hitting a handful of greens

    Yes. Your description and @davep043 I agree with. But I bristle when I’m constantly reading these Guys discount the need. Yes need for putting and shortgame. Your post does not read like the one I commented on. Surely we can agree there is a difference in these posts ?

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  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @youfromjoisey said:
    Awesome advice and I wish I'd followed that 30 years ago when i took up golf. I agree with all of your points, short game is key. Driver is a driver if you hit it right.

    .

    @bladehunter said:
    Yes. Your description and @davep043 I agree with. But I bristle when I’m constantly reading these Guys discount the need. Yes need for putting and shortgame. Your post does not read like the one I commented on. Surely we can agree there is a difference in these posts ?

    I think @Krt22 and I were both commenting on the post from @youfromjoisey , claiming that short game is king, driver is nothing special. We're not saying short game is unimportant, but nobody can become a good player through short game alone, the full-swing game is the largest contributor (among a number of significant contributors) to being a good player. What I find interesting is that for all his emphasis on wedge play, the OP understands that its his full swing that is keeping him from being a better player.

    @wayoverpar said:
    PRACTICE YOUR WEDGES from 100 in PRACTICE YOUR WEDGES from 90 yards in PRACTICE YOUR WEDGES from 80 yards in ...you getting the theme here....PRACTICE YOUR WEDGES. The ONLY thing that separates me from the single digits is the distance they hit their drive and approach. They get to their scoring clubs with fewer swings.... not ONE of the single digit league members in my league can beat me from 100 in..NOT one...but they are at that distance with a less swings...I'm working on it...but Tiger may be right, you are the distance you are.

    What probably separates you from being a better player isn't really distance, but consistency with full swings. You don't have to be long to shoot in the 70s, I'm certainly not long and I'm a 4 handicap. But I make consistent contact with all my clubs, I make very few big errors. Consistent contact means my AVERAGE driving distance (230 or 240, counting mishits) is probably greater than a 15 handicap who CAN hit it 280, but only does that twice a round. It means my second shots end up close to the green most of the time, not 50 or 100 yards away. And as much as you seem to hate instruction and driving range work, if you can improve your swing, you will almost certainly improve your distance at the same time.

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,898 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @davep043 said:

    @youfromjoisey said:
    Awesome advice and I wish I'd followed that 30 years ago when i took up golf. I agree with all of your points, short game is key. Driver is a driver if you hit it right.

    .

    @bladehunter said:
    Yes. Your description and @davep043 I agree with. But I bristle when I’m constantly reading these Guys discount the need. Yes need for putting and shortgame. Your post does not read like the one I commented on. Surely we can agree there is a difference in these posts ?

    I think @Krt22 and I were both commenting on the post from @youfromjoisey , claiming that short game is king, driver is nothing special. We're not saying short game is unimportant, but nobody can become a good player through short game alone, the full-swing game is the largest contributor (among a number of significant contributors) to being a good player. What I find interesting is that for all his emphasis on wedge play, the OP understands that its his full swing that is keeping him from being a better player.

    @wayoverpar said:
    PRACTICE YOUR WEDGES from 100 in PRACTICE YOUR WEDGES from 90 yards in PRACTICE YOUR WEDGES from 80 yards in ...you getting the theme here....PRACTICE YOUR WEDGES. The ONLY thing that separates me from the single digits is the distance they hit their drive and approach. They get to their scoring clubs with fewer swings.... not ONE of the single digit league members in my league can beat me from 100 in..NOT one...but they are at that distance with a less swings...I'm working on it...but Tiger may be right, you are the distance you are.

    What probably separates you from being a better player isn't really distance, but consistency with full swings. You don't have to be long to shoot in the 70s, I'm certainly not long and I'm a 4 handicap. But I make consistent contact with all my clubs, I make very few big errors. Consistent contact means my AVERAGE driving distance (230 or 240, counting mishits) is probably greater than a 15 handicap who CAN hit it 280, but only does that twice a round. It means my second shots end up close to the green most of the time, not 50 or 100 yards away. And as much as you seem to hate instruction and driving range work, if you can improve your swing, you will almost certainly improve your distance at the same time.

    Yep. I get what you’re saying.

    I was simply saying that what you’re saying vs what has been thrown at me by the strokes gained brigade , is two different things. Recently had this argument where a poster literally claimed putting was roughly 13 % of the equation to winning on tour. ( I believe it was 13. Something in the teens ). Vs the remainder tee to green. I asked how or why putting was weighted the same as other shots since putts account for roughly 1/3 of most scores for tour rounds . As in one missed putt is a guaranteed 1 higher shot for score. A missed fairway does not guarantee any such thing. In theory it Averages that. But the next shot dictates where in that average tab it comes in. ( high or low ) missing a 3 ft putt is final. Loss of shot. 99.9 % expected make rate.

    I don’t know the answer. I just know that I don’t understand how all shots can be weighted the same if each category has a different number of shots for a score , and some provide room for next shot recovery and some ( putting ) do not.

    At any rate. Spouting off “ with today’s statistics I don’t understand how anybody still believes the myth that short game is king .... everybody knows that the tee ball is most important aspect “ as if it’s gospel and shortgame /putting is an afterthought just gripes me. It’s patently false. You can drive it like Cameron champ all day and not put it in the hole. It takes it all.

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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,898 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @davep043

    Dave. I think I get what you’re saying. And if so I agree . You need a solid swing. Sure. And it just hit me what the disconnect is. I’m working off the assumption that anyone who is going to be considered a “ good or decent player” is going to be able to get off the tee and to the green. To me that’s a given. If you don’t have a solid full swing. You aren’t really playing golf. ( my opinion ). So I’m speaking from a place of scoring. So let’s use tour guys as an example.

    Each one can get enough green in reg regularly to compete. Obviously, or else they wouldn’t have a card. So to me. Then it becomes getting the ball in the hole. Which is always shortgame. Which is why I feel it’s most important. Moving the ball tee to green is an afterthought. It’s about scoring.

    So flip that around. And sure. A guy who can’t hit a ball straight off the tee and get it on or around a green each time , doesn’t really care about shortgame. But who cares what that guy is doing ? He isn’t going to score anyway.

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  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:
    I don’t know the answer. I just know that I don’t understand how all shots can be weighted the same if each category has a different number of shots for a score , and some provide room for next shot recovery and some ( putting ) do not.

    At any rate. Spouting off “ with today’s statistics I don’t understand how anybody still believes the myth that short game is king .... everybody knows that the tee ball is most important aspect “ as if it’s gospel and shortgame /putting is an afterthought just gripes me. It’s patently false. You can drive it like Cameron champ all day and not put it in the hole. It takes it all.

    We're getting pretty far afield, I think, but I'll post one more idea. To me, Strokes Gained has great value in helping a player, any player, determine where his weak point are. But that's strokes gained stats over a significant number of rounds. SG for a single round might be interesting, but I don't think its really valuable. Similarly, SG stats for a 4-day tournament are interesting, and maybe a little more indicative, but not all that valuable. In my memory, everyone in the top ten has a good week tee-to-green. Once that happens, putting can be the determining factor, but occasionally tee-to-green dominance overwhelms a great putting week. Average putting from 15 feet will just about always beat great putting from 30 feet.

    @bladehunter said:

    Dave. I think I get what you’re saying. And if so I agree . You need a solid swing. Sure. And it just hit me what the disconnect is. I’m working off the assumption that anyone who is going to be considered a “ good or decent player” is going to be able to get off the tee and to the green. To me that’s a given. If you don’t have a solid full swing. You aren’t really playing golf. ( my opinion ).

    AAhhh, but this entire thread started with a fairly new golfer, and his advice to other new golfers. You and I have done the hard lifting, we've learned to hit the ball competently. But a brand new golfer? He can't afford to concentrate on short game exclusively, he absolutely needs to learn to swing the club. To tell that guy to concentrate on putting and wedges is really doing him a disservice.

  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:

    @Krt22 said:

    @bladehunter said:

    @jvincent said:

    @youfromjoisey said:
    Awesome advice and I wish I'd followed that 30 years ago when i took up golf. I agree with all of your points, short game is key. Driver is a driver if you hit it right.

    You'd think by now that the myth of short game being key would have disappeared with all the data we have now.

    If you cannot get the ball in play consistently with driver no amount of short game will help you to go low. Scratching out doubles and bogies because you can't keep the ball in play off the tee is not good golf.

    I have hovered between a 6 and 7 for years until early last year when my driving went south. Index balloned to an 11 because I was losing 3-4 shots per round off the tee. Once I got the driver sorted out I got back into the 7's.

    Maybe tell the whole story. Driver alone doesn’t “ gain strokes “. You still have to put it in the hole. Half story either way is still wrong. Sorry to sound harsh. But I can tell you the same exact story except with putter instead of driver. It all matters

    That is exactly the point of SG, it tells you how much each aspect of the game matters, for that individual. A majority lose the most from tee to green, but there are certainly always outliers. The point isnt to discount short game, it's to analyze your game such that you know what you need to work on the most. Spending 4-5 hours on the practice green and 30 minutes hitting balls doesnt make sense if you are blasting 2-3 balls OB per round and only hitting a handful of greens

    Yes. Your description and @davep043 I agree with. But I bristle when I’m constantly reading these Guys discount the need. Yes need for putting and shortgame. Your post does not read like the one I commented on. Surely we can agree there is a difference in these posts ?

    Agreed, I think that stance typically comes out in response to the age old response of “its all about short game and putting”. Statistically speaking it’s not for most golfers.

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,433 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 10, 2019 6:12pm #45

    It's all about short game and putting...assuming you can keep it in play off the tee and get it on most of the greens in regulation.

    That's like a retired professional football player I heard saying success in the NFL is 100% mental...assuming you have to talent to make an NFL team in the first place.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • DLev45DLev45 Members Posts: 180 ✭✭✭
    edited Sep 10, 2019 6:14pm #46

    Echo the sentiment that you lost me at "don't go to the range." I started playing 3 years ago, have taken 2 lessons, and I'm a 6.6 HC right now. Over my last 10 rounds, my average score is 78.6 and my average GIRs is 10.2.

    How did that I do that? By averaging 3hrs/week at the range over the last 150 weeks.

  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @DLev45 said:
    Echo the sentiment that you lost me at "don't go to the range." I started playing 3 years ago, have taken 2 lessons, and I'm a 6.6 HC right now. Over my last 10 rounds, my average score is 78.6 and my average GIRs is 10.2.

    How did that I do that? By averaging 3hrs/week at the range over the last 150 weeks.

    AND by finding an instructor that helped put you on the right path. You did the work, but I'm sure he provided some quality direction for that work.

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,433 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @davep043 said:

    @DLev45 said:
    Echo the sentiment that you lost me at "don't go to the range." I started playing 3 years ago, have taken 2 lessons, and I'm a 6.6 HC right now. Over my last 10 rounds, my average score is 78.6 and my average GIRs is 10.2.

    How did that I do that? By averaging 3hrs/week at the range over the last 150 weeks.

    AND by finding an instructor that helped put you on the right path. You did the work, but I'm sure he provided some quality direction for that work.

    Heck, I knocked nearly five strokes off my average scores this past two months through a grand total of a handful of 30-40 minute range sessions and twice a week spending a half hour on my short game.

    But without the two lessons I had in that period, I could have practiced an hour a day for 60 straight days and not had much effect. The stuff I'd been trying to practice (sporadically) on my own for a year or two before that turned out to have NOTHING to do with why I had a two way miss off the tee and was duffing 90% of my short game shots. In fact, a couple of the things I was trying to practice were making the real problems worse.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • DLev45DLev45 Members Posts: 180 ✭✭✭

    @davep043 said:

    @DLev45 said:
    Echo the sentiment that you lost me at "don't go to the range." I started playing 3 years ago, have taken 2 lessons, and I'm a 6.6 HC right now. Over my last 10 rounds, my average score is 78.6 and my average GIRs is 10.2.

    How did that I do that? By averaging 3hrs/week at the range over the last 150 weeks.

    AND by finding an instructor that helped put you on the right path. You did the work, but I'm sure he provided some quality direction for that work.

    Sure, but I am also a huge believer in finding it in the dirt. Other things being equal, I think a beginner is going to get more out of 4 hours at the range than a 4 hour round.

  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,433 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @DLev45 said:

    @davep043 said:

    @DLev45 said:
    Echo the sentiment that you lost me at "don't go to the range." I started playing 3 years ago, have taken 2 lessons, and I'm a 6.6 HC right now. Over my last 10 rounds, my average score is 78.6 and my average GIRs is 10.2.

    How did that I do that? By averaging 3hrs/week at the range over the last 150 weeks.

    AND by finding an instructor that helped put you on the right path. You did the work, but I'm sure he provided some quality direction for that work.

    Sure, but I am also a huge believer in finding it in the dirt. Other things being equal, I think a beginner is going to get more out of 4 hours at the range than a 4 hour round.

    Well he might make more improvement in his swing. I doubt he'll get more enjoyment, unless he's the rare sort who finds beating balls more fun that playing golf.

    When the ratio of practice to playing time starts approaching or exceeding one-to-one you're entering into the realm of self improvement rather than recreation. It's entirely possible to enjoy playing golf without feeling the need to excel at it. If we tell every beginner to forget about playing much until he's "dug it out of the dirt" for 10,000 hours as if it were playing the violin, we'll probably lose a lot of beginner golfers!

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @DLev45 said:

    @davep043 said:

    @DLev45 said:
    Echo the sentiment that you lost me at "don't go to the range." I started playing 3 years ago, have taken 2 lessons, and I'm a 6.6 HC right now. Over my last 10 rounds, my average score is 78.6 and my average GIRs is 10.2.

    How did that I do that? By averaging 3hrs/week at the range over the last 150 weeks.

    AND by finding an instructor that helped put you on the right path. You did the work, but I'm sure he provided some quality direction for that work.

    Sure, but I am also a huge believer in finding it in the dirt. Other things being equal, I think a beginner is going to get more out of 4 hours at the range than a 4 hour round.

    In this case I would say it depends. One can literally waste 4 hours at the range ingraining bad habits and make their game worse if their practice is not focused, ie they know what their issues are and mildly understand what they need to do in order to fix them

  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @DLev45 said:

    @davep043 said:

    @DLev45 said:
    Echo the sentiment that you lost me at "don't go to the range." I started playing 3 years ago, have taken 2 lessons, and I'm a 6.6 HC right now. Over my last 10 rounds, my average score is 78.6 and my average GIRs is 10.2.

    How did that I do that? By averaging 3hrs/week at the range over the last 150 weeks.

    AND by finding an instructor that helped put you on the right path. You did the work, but I'm sure he provided some quality direction for that work.

    Sure, but I am also a huge believer in finding it in the dirt. Other things being equal, I think a beginner is going to get more out of 4 hours at the range than a 4 hour round.

    I think that practice without have something specific in mind, something that you actually NEED to change, is pretty much just exercise. For a beginner without instruction, he's likely to be ingraining bad habits that will be difficult to break down the road. And for a beginner to try to assess his swing, determine what needs to change, and find an effective way to make the change, close to impossible. Good instruction will allow the beginner to practice more effectively, and improve to a much better level.

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,898 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    So to be clear guys. A 4 year player is a beginner ?

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  • North ButteNorth Butte Members Posts: 11,433 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:
    So to be clear guys. A 4 year player is a beginner ?

    The original poster was a "4 year player" offering his advice to complete beginners.

    “1lb beefstak, with
    1pt bitter beer
    every 6 hours.
    1 ten-mile walk every morning.
    1 bed at 11 sharp every night.
    And don't stuff your head with things you don't understand.” 
  • jvincentjvincent Members Posts: 807 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:

    At any rate. Spouting off “ with today’s statistics I don’t understand how anybody still believes the myth that short game is king .... everybody knows that the tee ball is most important aspect “ as if it’s gospel and shortgame /putting is an afterthought just gripes me. It’s patently false. You can drive it like Cameron champ all day and not put it in the hole. It takes it all.

    Since I believe I was the original spoutee, I'll chime in.

    My original comment was in the context of the OP, who is a beginner. I've seen way too many "old guys" tell beginners that they need to focus on short game when the beginners can't even sniff a green in regulation and lose a half dozen balls or more off the tee.

    In case you missed it, the point I made in a later post about long game determining your scoring potential and short game allowing you to maximize it is really the point I'm trying to make.

    If you've got a 36-handicap long game then you can hone your short game to a razor's edge and you'll be a 30 handicap at best.

    Cobra F9 9* : Tour AD TP 7-S
    Cobra LTD set at 16* : Tour AD TP 8-S
    Cobra 3U set at 19.5* : Nippon Modus3 130-S
    Wishon 565MC 4-PW : Nippon Modus3 130-S
    Cleveland RTX3 50, 54, 58 : Nippon Modus3 130-S
    Piretti Potenza 370g : Breakthrough Technology Stability Shaft - 34"

  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:
    So to be clear guys. A 4 year player is a beginner ?

    Could absolutely beginner skill level depending on their skill/time/practice routine/etc.

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,898 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 10, 2019 7:31pm #57

    @jvincent said:

    @bladehunter said:

    At any rate. Spouting off “ with today’s statistics I don’t understand how anybody still believes the myth that short game is king .... everybody knows that the tee ball is most important aspect “ as if it’s gospel and shortgame /putting is an afterthought just gripes me. It’s patently false. You can drive it like Cameron champ all day and not put it in the hole. It takes it all.

    Since I believe I was the original spoutee, I'll chime in.

    My original comment was in the context of the OP, who is a beginner. I've seen way too many "old guys" tell beginners that they need to focus on short game when the beginners can't even sniff a green in regulation and lose a half dozen balls or more off the tee.

    In case you missed it, the point I made in a later post about long game determining your scoring potential and short game allowing you to maximize it is really the point I'm trying to make.

    If you've got a 36-handicap long game then you can hone your short game to a razor's edge and you'll be a 30 handicap at best.

    And as I said , I get that point .

    My initial response was a knee jerk one to be sure. And due to the recent rash of strokes gained spin that’s taken over here. It’s common for guys to paint off that tournaments are won with tee balls. As if putts/ shortgame make themselves. I simply don’t get that. That’s in the context of winning tournaments. Not breaking 90.

    Ping G410  11.2* Tensei pro OrangeV2 proto 70TX 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  4-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  50  54 60 s400
    Spider X Tour Armlock.  42 inch with jumbo max 17 inch  grip.   


  • jvincentjvincent Members Posts: 807 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:

    @jvincent said:

    @bladehunter said:

    At any rate. Spouting off “ with today’s statistics I don’t understand how anybody still believes the myth that short game is king .... everybody knows that the tee ball is most important aspect “ as if it’s gospel and shortgame /putting is an afterthought just gripes me. It’s patently false. You can drive it like Cameron champ all day and not put it in the hole. It takes it all.

    Since I believe I was the original spoutee, I'll chime in.

    My original comment was in the context of the OP, who is a beginner. I've seen way too many "old guys" tell beginners that they need to focus on short game when the beginners can't even sniff a green in regulation and lose a half dozen balls or more off the tee.

    In case you missed it, the point I made in a later post about long game determining your scoring potential and short game allowing you to maximize it is really the point I'm trying to make.

    If you've got a 36-handicap long game then you can hone your short game to a razor's edge and you'll be a 30 handicap at best.

    And as I said , I get that point .

    My initial response was a knee jerk one to be sure. And due to the recent rash of strokes gained spin that’s taken over here. It’s common for guys to paint off that tournaments are won with tee balls. As if putts/ shortgame make themselves. I simply don’t get that. That’s in the context of winning tournaments. Not breaking 90.

    Fair enough.

    I think context matters when you look at strokes gained/lost. It's useful to tour pros as a long term guide for where they need to improve vs their peers.

    For us mere mortals strokes lost is a much better concept IMHO.

    Cobra F9 9* : Tour AD TP 7-S
    Cobra LTD set at 16* : Tour AD TP 8-S
    Cobra 3U set at 19.5* : Nippon Modus3 130-S
    Wishon 565MC 4-PW : Nippon Modus3 130-S
    Cleveland RTX3 50, 54, 58 : Nippon Modus3 130-S
    Piretti Potenza 370g : Breakthrough Technology Stability Shaft - 34"

  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolinaMembers Posts: 27,898 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Krt22 said:

    @bladehunter said:
    So to be clear guys. A 4 year player is a beginner ?

    Could absolutely beginner skill level depending on their skill/time/practice routine/etc.

    Just wondered. I dont disagree. Could be a total beginner. Seemed to be assumed that he is.

    All very interesting to me due to my close proximity to the same timeline in the game.

    Which is why I agree with him maybe 75.%. I myself spend way more time on putting and shortgame. I define shortgame as inside 100 yards. I do hit a lot of wedges , and quite a good amount of 125 yard shots too. But over that I’m not a huge believer in beating balls with no purpose. And I have room to hit everything full shot at home. I just don’t find the full swing needs constant reps. It’s the feel and touch that has to be cultivated.

    Ping G410  11.2* Tensei pro OrangeV2 proto 70TX 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  4-PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  50  54 60 s400
    Spider X Tour Armlock.  42 inch with jumbo max 17 inch  grip.   


  • kobe123kobe123 Golf Is A Way Of Life Jr. Boomers Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    See I'm a range rat/practice rat. I rarely play.

    I would bet spend 60% of my time in the short game facility, 30% on the range, 10% play.

    Short Game: Wedges and 10 foot and in
    Range: Full Swings (Currently Practicing Shortening my swing)
    Play: Well play.

    Current handicap: +0.7

  • davep043davep043 Members Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @bladehunter said:
    Which is why I agree with him maybe 75.%. I myself spend way more time on putting and shortgame. I define shortgame as inside 100 yards. I do hit a lot of wedges , and quite a good amount of 125 yard shots too. But over that I’m not a huge believer in beating balls with no purpose. And I have room to hit everything full shot at home. I just don’t find the full swing needs constant reps. It’s the feel and touch that has to be cultivated.

    You've made better progress than the OP has, in a similar time frame. Did you do it with instruction and practice, or by wandering through fields with a club but no golf balls, swinging at dandelions? Perhaps you have freakish natural talent, some people definitely have an edge that way. But I think its a logical question, as an adult learning the game pretty quickly, how did your methods differ from the OP, how were they similar?
    And perhaps more germane, since the OP was giving his advice to other beginners, would you tell a beginner to follow your learning path, or maybe your current regimen? Would you suggest that he spend most of his available time and money working on wedges, and shorter shots? For once I'm not hammering you, I'm genuinely curious. I'm a long way removed from my beginner days, in decades if not in playing ability.

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