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Low-point control for irons and driver

barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

Hi!
I have a weakness with low-point control, and I'm working hard on that. Both for my irons (not hitting down enough at the ball) and the driver (not hitting up at the ball).
I find that focusing my eyes about 2 inches in front of the ball with the irons and 1 inch behind the ball with the driver helps a lot!
The only drawback is that I tend to cut the ball with the irons and draw the ball too much with the driver.
My question is: is that a natural consequence of "moving" the low-point?

Comments

  • gentlesgentles Members Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Check this out - https://www.adamyounggolf.com/locked-on-golf/

    If you go from hitting down to hitting up with a driver, you’re going to hit it with a path that is more to the right which would encourage a draw, and visa versa with your iron swing. I would experiment with your grip and or wrist angles to try and neutralize the face, or just adjust where you aim if you’re happy with this ball flight.

    FWIW I make a similar change when my driver strikes get too close to the low heel. By “aiming” a touch inside and below the ball i can move the strike towards the center.

    People might try tell you it’s a “bandaid” fix but if it produces desired results then what is the issue?

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  • wagolfer7wagolfer7 Members Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    I would say that's a natural result based on that swing thought.

    Irons - trying to hit past that ball, probably moving towards the target with your body.

    Driver - holding back and flipping

    There is no thought that's going to fix your swing. You have to figure out what really causes the issues you have and then work on it. But trying to just hit more down or more up, is not something I'd recommend. If it's working for you.... Awesome.

  • barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

    @gentles : Thanks for the explanation, sounds reasonable. Adjusting the face angle should be the way to go :-)

  • juststevejuststeve Members Posts: 4,865 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    If you swing the club on an arc around stationary swing center the club will bottom out in the same place relative to your body, time after time. This is a skill best learned without a ball. When your divot starts in the same place time after time, you can dictate the angle of the strike by where you position the ball. Then just swing and let the ball get in the way.

    Steve

  • gentlesgentles Members Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @wagolfer7 said:
    I would say that's a natural result based on that swing thought.

    Irons - trying to hit past that ball, probably moving towards the target with your body.

    Driver - holding back and flipping

    There is no thought that's going to fix your swing. You have to figure out what really causes the issues you have and then work on it. But trying to just hit more down or more up, is not something I'd recommend. If it's working for you.... Awesome.

    If you need to hit more down on the ball - and having that as a thought achieves that goal, then why would you not recommend it? If the thought creates a change in motion that achieves the goal, why complicate things by trying to find a "technical" solution?

    Taylormade 2016 M2 10.5 Aldila Tour Blue 75x
    Taylormade 2016 M2 DF 3hl Aldila Tour Blue 85x
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    Ping Glide 51,55, 59 DG S400
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    On the bench/testing: G400 LST, Callaway 3deep, Cobra LTD 3-4, Callaway Apex 23*, UDI 2 and 3 irons, Ping Glide 53, PM Grind 64
  • wagolfer7wagolfer7 Members Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    @gentles said:

    @wagolfer7 said:
    I would say that's a natural result based on that swing thought.

    Irons - trying to hit past that ball, probably moving towards the target with your body.

    Driver - holding back and flipping

    There is no thought that's going to fix your swing. You have to figure out what really causes the issues you have and then work on it. But trying to just hit more down or more up, is not something I'd recommend. If it's working for you.... Awesome.

    If you need to hit more down on the ball - and having that as a thought achieves that goal, then why would you not recommend it? If the thought creates a change in motion that achieves the goal, why complicate things by trying to find a "technical" solution?

    I would say just look at my last sentence. If it's working for you.... Awesome.

    Also the OP was addressing his misses. I gave a stab at possible misses because of that swing thought. It's an opinion, as that's all anyone can give with no video.

  • gentlesgentles Members Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @wagolfer7 said:

    @gentles said:

    @wagolfer7 said:
    I would say that's a natural result based on that swing thought.

    Irons - trying to hit past that ball, probably moving towards the target with your body.

    Driver - holding back and flipping

    There is no thought that's going to fix your swing. You have to figure out what really causes the issues you have and then work on it. But trying to just hit more down or more up, is not something I'd recommend. If it's working for you.... Awesome.

    If you need to hit more down on the ball - and having that as a thought achieves that goal, then why would you not recommend it? If the thought creates a change in motion that achieves the goal, why complicate things by trying to find a "technical" solution?

    I would say just look at my last sentence. If it's working for you.... Awesome.

    Also the OP was addressing his misses. I gave a stab at possible misses because of that swing thought. It's an opinion, as that's all anyone can give with no video.

    Fair point...I was just reflecting on a view I've seen others (not necessarily you...) suggest that anything other than a full technical swing change is a bandaid fix. Agree that its hard to provide much diagnosis without video!

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    On the bench/testing: G400 LST, Callaway 3deep, Cobra LTD 3-4, Callaway Apex 23*, UDI 2 and 3 irons, Ping Glide 53, PM Grind 64
  • hoselpaloozahoselpalooza Members Posts: 243 ✭✭✭

    @barnum1 said:
    Hi!
    I have a weakness with low-point control, and I'm working hard on that. Both for my irons (not hitting down enough at the ball) and the driver (not hitting up at the ball).
    I find that focusing my eyes about 2 inches in front of the ball with the irons and 1 inch behind the ball with the driver helps a lot!
    The only drawback is that I tend to cut the ball with the irons and draw the ball too much with the driver.
    My question is: is that a natural consequence of "moving" the low-point?

    i've been working on this and thinking about it for the past few months. even sought some drill ideas here.

    the best advice i could give you is to figure out how your body parts influence low point. for example, your center of gravity (a.k.a. COG -- probably around your belly button) and sternum may have a strong influence.

    so, as one example, if you bump your hips toward the target in the beginning of the downswing your COG will likely move toward the target along with your low point. and if you allow your sternum to travel 3"-4" forward (while keeping your head back?) it would seem even more likely that your low point would move 3"-4" in front of the ball, too.

    to further illustrate, address a ball, take some mental notes, and then immediately move your body into impact position*. where are your body parts at set-up and where are they in your perfect impact position?

    *i made the mistake of using a lazy impact position for a while. by lazy i mean i got into an impact position of someone with a 3 mph swing speed. it took someone else pointing this out before i realized it. just an FYI. ;)

    any hunch or conviction i share today may very well be disproven or overturned tomorrow, and i welcome that. i'm simply here to learn with others, even if my enthusiasm for golf occasionally masquerades as knowledge. after all, the more i learn the less i know.

  • son_of_ketoson_of_keto Members Posts: 15 ✭✭

    One way I think of my aim point as almost the end of an almost oval that will be my front hand path. So, sometimes really steep and behind the ball, or more a little over the horizon for driver. I adjust that, I can visualize it well and tilt steeper or longer flatter oval per club.

  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Hitting up and down more is not a primary focus. It usually doesn’t end well in either case.

    There is a reason (s) why your low point is bad and you have to address it specifically for long term gain.

  • barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

    @hoselpalooza Good point! I guess that a change of COG is what's happening when I do this. I'll try to look at this more in detail next time at the range.

    @MonteScheinblum I wasn't focusing on hitting down or up, but getting the low-point correct relative to the ball. I agree that there is a reason for where my low-point is, and this may be one way to change that.

  • barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

    Well, I went to the pro today and his Trackman could confirm a better angle of attack. I used to be at -2 to -3 with 8 iron, now it was -5 to -6.
    BUT: what he could see from face on video was that the reason is that the whole body has moved towards the target (a slide). He wanted to see more of the hands moving forward, not the body.

    So that made me a bit confused. I understand that sliding the body is not good, but do I not need to get the COG towards the target? If so, maybe what @hoselpalooza says about hip bump is the solution? Appreciate your advice!

  • wagolfer7wagolfer7 Members Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    @barnum1 said:
    Well, I went to the pro today and his Trackman could confirm a better angle of attack. I used to be at -2 to -3 with 8 iron, now it was -5 to -6.
    BUT: what he could see from face on video was that the reason is that the whole body has moved towards the target (a slide). He wanted to see more of the hands moving forward, not the body.

    So that made me a bit confused. I understand that sliding the body is not good, but do I not need to get the COG towards the target? If so, maybe what @hoselpalooza says about hip bump is the solution? Appreciate your advice!

    This is what I thought and said would happen with that swing thought. Trying to hit 2 inches past the ball, is going to make you want to move more towards the target, since your essentially moving your hitting target forward.

    I'm not sure what you mean by CoG towards the target? You want your momentum to move towards the target and to me, in reality, actually feels like my momentum is going hard left into my left heel and left glute. You need to try and keep your head / chest not moving any more forward to the target than it's starting position into impact. Basically, you need to learn how to rotate your body correctly throughout the swing. Your chest / hips / body need to rotate (turning left) through the impact zone. Not lunging or swaying through it.

    Monte's saying is the best in my opinion - on the backswing get your tailbone closer to the target and chest / sternum away from target. This helps you rotate without swaying. Then just change directions and do the same thing going the other way. The hard part of this, is you need to learn how to transition properly to change directions and get your mass / momentum into that left side prior to impact.

    @hoselpalooza hip bump I believe is the transition move that helps you get ready to change directions. My personal opinion, the hip bump is a result, not an active move. The transition move and ground force reactions is a very hot topic these days and tons of info provided on this board about it.

    Most people will feel like swinging it this way, will make them over the top. And it's true, most will go over the top. You have to have many other stuff correct to not go over the top.

    Without seeing a video, it's very hard to recommend where to start. Many people are jumping into the ground force reactions and transition moves, without addressing bigger issues before. End result may not be what you are looking for, if you don't address the bigger issues first. That I think is the most frustrating thing in golf. It's a puzzle, but it's a puzzle that should be done in a certain order. If you go out of order, you don't get the desired results, then assume you are doing it incorrectly.

  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Saw a drill the other day for honing your swing arc by hitting with different clubs a ball off the turf, one teed up maybe 3/4" and a ball teed 3-4". The goal was to continue to hit the ball in the sweet spot with all clubs.

    ^That doesn't fix anything, just helps you work on the swing arc which is in my estimation one way to address low point.

  • hoselpaloozahoselpalooza Members Posts: 243 ✭✭✭

    @barnum1 said:
    Well, I went to the pro today and his Trackman could confirm a better angle of attack. I used to be at -2 to -3 with 8 iron, now it was -5 to -6.
    BUT: what he could see from face on video was that the reason is that the whole body has moved towards the target (a slide). He wanted to see more of the hands moving forward, not the body.

    So that made me a bit confused. I understand that sliding the body is not good, but do I not need to get the COG towards the target? If so, maybe what @hoselpalooza says about hip bump is the solution? Appreciate your advice!

    cc @wagolfer7

    from a purely anatomical perspective it's my understanding that the sternum is the primary factor in low point control*. if you set up over the ball, lift your club slightly, and then move your sternum 3"-4" toward the target i believe the low point has to follow suit.

    the reason i mentioned COG (basically belly button) is because i believe that moving the sternum toward the target without moving the COG toward the target will result in a steep OTT move. conversely, if you move your COG toward the target but your sternum hangs back i suspect you will dig your club into the ground behind the ball.

    as far as the "hip bump" is concerned, i used it as an example of what might cause the COG to move toward the target. i didn't intend to discuss transition moves although i think transition is arguably the second most important part of the swing after impact. my intention was to focus on low point from an anatomical perspective -- i.e. which body parts influence low point, not which series of coordinated movements. the movements may be or feel different for different people but i believe the body parts that control low point will be the same, if that makes sense.

    completely separately, please take what i'm saying about this with a huge grain of salt. it's just stuff that's worked for me recently and may not be right for others. for example, it's also possible that lack of scapular stability could cause low point control issues. these things can be complicated and i don't want to lead anyone down the wrong path. just some food for thought as you continue your own journeys!

    *i believe i picked this up in a mike austin video, maybe the skeleton suit one?

    any hunch or conviction i share today may very well be disproven or overturned tomorrow, and i welcome that. i'm simply here to learn with others, even if my enthusiasm for golf occasionally masquerades as knowledge. after all, the more i learn the less i know.

  • Exactice808Exactice808 Just want to hit ball far and go find it... Members Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 11, 2019 8:10pm #17

    @barnum1 said:
    Hi!
    I have a weakness with low-point control, and I'm working hard on that. Both for my irons (not hitting down enough at the ball) and the driver (not hitting up at the ball).
    I find that focusing my eyes about 2 inches in front of the ball with the irons and 1 inch behind the ball with the driver helps a lot!
    The only drawback is that I tend to cut the ball with the irons and draw the ball too much with the driver.
    My question is: is that a natural consequence of "moving" the low-point?

    Hey OP super random thought as you are receiving legit response... but something I picked up on, that was somewhat a game change for me.

    1) I used to (hit down at the ball) In other words I was intentionally controlling the low point, BUT this also would then add thins and fats if my timing was off.
    2) I realized (personally) that we are not trying to get a low point on the ball BUT we are actually trying to push the ball forward towards the target. Low point is meaningless (Stick with me here) if you are thinking about how to get the ball to the target correctly.
    3) with a putter to roll to the hole we dont really have low point issues are we are NOT coming in with - AoA but we are keeping the putter shallow and pushing the ball toward the hole. THIS is the thought you should have with all your clubs.. OF course the wedges being the shortest club, having the most upright and negative AoA. Does not defeat the fact you want to come in shallow and "Accelerate the ball FORWARD" to target and not try to hit down and intentionally control your low point.

    This is more mental then a physical change, but once I started to understand what I was trying to do with the club to the ball the swing started to change on its own... pretty awesome in my personal experience.

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  • barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

    @wagolfer7: You explain that very well! No swaying or lunging at the ball. Focus on rotation. But somehow I need to get my hands "in front of" the ball, and I can't understand how to do that without getting my body towards the target.

  • Golf ScientistGolf Scientist Members Posts: 121 ✭✭✭

    @barnum1 said:
    Hi!
    I have a weakness with low-point control, and I'm working hard on that. Both for my irons (not hitting down enough at the ball) and the driver (not hitting up at the ball).
    I find that focusing my eyes about 2 inches in front of the ball with the irons and 1 inch behind the ball with the driver helps a lot!
    The only drawback is that I tend to cut the ball with the irons and draw the ball too much with the driver.
    My question is: is that a natural consequence of "moving" the low-point?

    Without pictures of your setup for irons and driver it's difficult to diagnosis, but I suspect when you are "focusing your eyes" you may be positioning your head farther forward, or farther back in your setup, and in relation get your shoulders aligned differently. As your head moves more forward (toward the target) your shoulder alignment could get more open (pointing left causing your swing to go out to the left), and farther back could get your shoulders aligned further right (and the swing being directed further right).

    As far as low point goes: If you setup with no club in your hand, and let your left arm hang by itself it will hang directly underneath your left shoulder. At that location it is closer to the ground than if you swing it back or forward. The same would be true if you then put a club in your left hand. The club would be at its lowest point when your hand gets under the left shoulder. In a good swing where we are hitting the ball off the ground we are interested in catching the ball before we catch the turf. In order to do that it is a good idea to position the ball slightly back or the low point meaning where your left ear or a logo on your shirt might be. For the driver which is on a high tee, and you want to catch on the up swing the ball should be positioned somewhere left of your armpit. That way you catch it as your swing starts arcing up.

    I recommend you stop changing where you focus (that may be changing where you position your head and shoulders, and instead focus on where you are positioning your ball. If you are not sliding side to side during your swing, and are rotating in a sound manner your low point should be consistent.

    Current set makeup:
    M5 driver with Evenflow shaft
    M5 3 and 5 metals with Evenflow shafts
    GAPR 4 and 5 hybrids with KBS hybrid shafts
    P790 irons 6-AW with Nippon 950 shafts
    Callaway PM 60*, PM 56* wedges with KBS Tour-V shafts
    Spider putter





  • wagolfer7wagolfer7 Members Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    @barnum1 said:
    @wagolfer7: You explain that very well! No swaying or lunging at the ball. Focus on rotation. But somehow I need to get my hands "in front of" the ball, and I can't understand how to do that without getting my body towards the target.

    Hands ahead of the ball are a result, not a forced action. Bottom Line - Don't worry about it.

    If you have your hands setup ahead of the ball at setup, then don't worry about it. A good rotation will get the hands ahead at impact. Look at any PGA player at impact position - notice how his hips are open as compared to setup. That's the rotation you are looking for.

    Is your swing going to be perfect if you remove the sway?? Heck no! You still have a long ways to go, to end up in an awesome impact position. Just work on one thing at a time. Removing the sway and having good rotation is a smart thing to focus on for a while and should help get you some more consistency and ball striking. If you start working on too much at once, usually tends to not doing any of them right and falling back into bad habits quickly.

  • barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

    Late comment here @wagolfer7 but I've been busy playing golf :smile:

    I agree that hands ahead of ball is a result of another action, but I am still unsure which. Rotation is of course good, but I believe I do that pretty good without getting the hands "out".

    About the driver swing... I tried to think more about staying behind the ball this weekend (instead of focusing the eyes) and that worked very well! Hit my best drives all season. Just one thing: is there a good way of knowing that you're not reverse pivoting when you stay behind the ball? On some of the good drives I almost had the feeling that my weight stayed on the right leg. Not sure, but I would like to rule it out...

  • Golf ScientistGolf Scientist Members Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2019 4:26am #22

    @barnum1 said:

    Late comment here @wagolfer7 but I've been busy playing golf :smile:

    About the driver swing... I tried to think more about staying behind the ball this weekend (instead of focusing the eyes) and that worked very well! Hit my best drives all season. Just one thing: is there a good way of knowing that you're not reverse pivoting when you stay behind the ball? On some of the good drives I almost had the feeling that my weight stayed on the right leg. Not sure, but I would like to rule it out...

    Reverse pivoting is usually considered to be the combination of hips sliding laterally to the right on the backswing with the left shoulder and head dropping toward the forward foot often accompanied by the reverse happening on the downswing. If your hitting the ball solid you don't have that problem.
    Having weight/pressure stay on the back leg is not a bad thing (contrary to what the people trying to sell force plates would like you to believe). Both Steve Elkington and Ernie Els have written about how they liked to feel themselves sit into and maintain pressure on their back leg during transition. Look at Rory Mcilroy's legs flex (downline view) during transition. Greg Norman and Butch Harmon liked to see Greg Norman flat footed (or close to it) at impact. I remember watching Ernie Els shoot a 61, set a course record, and win a tournament staying flat footed at impact.

    Here is video showing Rory Mcilroy's feet at and through impact (they stay flat on the ground).
    Rory Mcilroy 2016 impact:

    Current set makeup:
    M5 driver with Evenflow shaft
    M5 3 and 5 metals with Evenflow shafts
    GAPR 4 and 5 hybrids with KBS hybrid shafts
    P790 irons 6-AW with Nippon 950 shafts
    Callaway PM 60*, PM 56* wedges with KBS Tour-V shafts
    Spider putter





  • barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

    @Golf Scientist Thanks for your answer. I was hitting the ball great, just felt a bit strange.
    That is often how it is when changing something in the swing: small changes feel like huge changes....
    I heard about keeping right foot on the ground at impact. Not sure if I did that, but I'll check next time at the range!

  • oikos1oikos1 Members Posts: 2,361 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @barnum1 said:
    @wagolfer7: You explain that very well! No swaying or lunging at the ball. Focus on rotation. But somehow I need to get my hands "in front of" the ball, and I can't understand how to do that without getting my body towards the target.

    Is the "pro" you went to not helping you with this?

  • barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

    @oikos1 Well, yes he is. He gave me a drill, but I'm not really getting where I want.

  • Golf ScientistGolf Scientist Members Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2019 4:14pm #26

    @barnum1 said:
    But somehow I need to get my hands "in front of" the ball, and I can't understand how to do that without getting my body towards the target.

    Why do you feel you need your hands more in front of the ball at impact? Do you feel you are hitting it too high?
    How strong your left hand grip is, how tilted your shoulders are, how much you side bend (away from the target), and how rotated your core is will have an influence on how much shaft lean you'll have at impact. Good players with stronger grips tend to come into impact with a high degree of shoulder tilt, lower heads (compared to setup), aggressively rotated cores, bent right arms with right elbow close to the right hip, rounded backs, and have a tendency to make an aggressive lateral hip drive on the downswing. In general this setup, swing, and impact can put more pressure on the spine and back because it changes those body parts more than the alternative. Good players with more neutral grips tend to have taller posture, maintain their height better, straighter back, straighter right arm with more clearance between the arms and body.
    If you're going to force more shaft lean into your swing you'll have to make compensation moves to match with it.
    Try this test:
    Setup with a strong left hand grip, and get in your normal setup posture. From there move into impact position by waggling your left arm (taking tension out of the arm and allowing the left wrist and left are to come into alignment from the weight of the club), make a very short partial swing back and then down into impact where you side bend to your right, rotate your core open. Has your hands pressed forward and the shaft gone into forward shaft lean?
    Setup with a neutral grip, and get into your normal setup posture. From there move into impact position by waggling your left arm again, swing very short again, but this time instead of tilting and rotating keep tall posture and allow your right arm to straighten in the clearance space your taller posture provides. Do you have less shaft lean? Both swings work, and you have successful pros that use each method. Phil Cheetham did his PHD thesis paper on the assumption that he thought the side bending, stronger grip, forward shaft leaning players had less dispersion and more consistency than the taller posture, more arm swing style players who had less shaft lean, but in the end he learned that neither group of players were more consistent and neither group had higher dispersion rates.

    strong grip, side bent, core rotated players impact:

    neutral grip players, taller posture, straight arm players impact:



    Current set makeup:
    M5 driver with Evenflow shaft
    M5 3 and 5 metals with Evenflow shafts
    GAPR 4 and 5 hybrids with KBS hybrid shafts
    P790 irons 6-AW with Nippon 950 shafts
    Callaway PM 60*, PM 56* wedges with KBS Tour-V shafts
    Spider putter





  • wagolfer7wagolfer7 Members Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    @barnum1 said:
    Late comment here @wagolfer7 but I've been busy playing golf :smile:

    I agree that hands ahead of ball is a result of another action, but I am still unsure which. Rotation is of course good, but I believe I do that pretty good without getting the hands "out".

    About the driver swing... I tried to think more about staying behind the ball this weekend (instead of focusing the eyes) and that worked very well! Hit my best drives all season. Just one thing: is there a good way of knowing that you're not reverse pivoting when you stay behind the ball? On some of the good drives I almost had the feeling that my weight stayed on the right leg. Not sure, but I would like to rule it out...

    @barnum1 - Yah you are most likely staying back on your right side more. Keeping the head behind ball on the driver, can usually help get golfers to shallow the club a little more. Again - by doing this does it mean you are doing it all right? Heck no. This thought is making you stay back, weight pressure is back and it most likely you are not coming in as steep. You can hit good balls from here and the consistency can be pretty good too. Get in the right position and you'll hit it good. Stay back more than normal you might start draw / hooking it. Sway forward a little and you block it out right or come over the top.

    All your doing is making a change that helps flatten out the swing for you on the driver. It should make you hit that club better.

    I believe that one of the biggest differences between us amateurs and the pros, is the fact that at waist high on the way down - those guys are already 80+ percent on their left side and we are closer to 50 percent or less.

    Some guys have the right foot on the ground in this position (very common for shorter shots / clubs) but most guys have it off the ground slightly. That is showing you that not much weight pressure is on the right side at that point.

    I would say keep working on what you are doing. You're getting good results. I would recommend the next step is try to keep that head still (not going back hardly at all). Right now I think you are swaying back (head moving more than an inch or two back) and staying there (that's your thought, stay behind it) and it's helping you with the driver. With irons if you move back and stay there, you'll hit thins and flippy shots. You'll learn that it's not easy to not let your head move away from the target on the backswing. Learn how to rotate and keeping that head only 2 inches or less of movement away. With wedge shots your head really shouldn't move at all, just rotate and feel pressure loading into the right side.

    Good to hear about you driver. Sounds like you had some success over the weekend. Always a good feeling :)

  • barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

    @Golf Scientist Maybe I wasn't clear but the hands-before-the-ball issue is for my iron shots. I'm not good at compressing the ball and I'm not getting the trajectory I want. Driver is something else, there I hit too much down at the ball. I liked your explanation of the two types of good golfers!

    @wagolfer7 Thanks for your continued input! You are completely right that I move my head back somewhat in the backswing. I tried to remove that, but it was too difficult. I also raise my whole body in the backswing, but am able to get back to the same height at impact.
    Tomorrow it's practice time with our pro, let's see what he says about my "new" driver swing.

  • hoselpaloozahoselpalooza Members Posts: 243 ✭✭✭

    @barnum1 , lot's of good supplemental info in this video with chuck cook. clip i'm sharing starts at 1:48:20 but you could probably rewind 5 minutes and still get relevant info. after the clip starts mr. cook provides examples of how he helps teach people to get into a good impact position and compress the ball. some really good stuff!

    any hunch or conviction i share today may very well be disproven or overturned tomorrow, and i welcome that. i'm simply here to learn with others, even if my enthusiasm for golf occasionally masquerades as knowledge. after all, the more i learn the less i know.

  • barnum1barnum1 Members Posts: 41 ✭✭

    @hoselpalooza Thanks, that was a great video!

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