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Following Rules

yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭

Have been doing USKG since my son was 5 (now 11). I think 10-12 you see a whole new influx of kids. Got paired the first fall tourney with a new dad and son. On the first hole, his son marked the ball on the fringe and picked up. At the end of the hole, I announced the score (assessed a one stroke penalty for picking up the ball) and his dad got mad. Said - it’s his first tourney; why would I assess a penalty. I responded — haven’t heard that as an excuse to not follow rules — just trying to protect the field (his son wasn’t going to place anyway). Wasn’t pleasant the following 17 holes but didn’t care.
Why do some parents think that it’s okay to not follow rules when the majority does? Do you guys see that a lot? Even if the kid is going to finish near the bottom, what if last place followed every rule and would have finished second to last had the kid ahead of him took every stroke. Am I just naive to how stringent parents are on these USKG tours? I know at regional and worlds this is a nonissue, but I always tried to teach my son to be honest and accurate from the get go.

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Comments

  • CTgolfCTgolf Members Posts: 503 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Haven't had to deal with this for awhile now, but I would have probably just initially given him a warning and politely informed him of the rules, since it sounds like he didn't know. If he does it again then add a penalty for each infraction.

    You may end up seeing and competing against that parent/child for many more years, so in my opinion it's not worth it to have bad relations (especially if he's nowhere close to scores needed to gain priority status).

  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,963 ClubWRX

    I'm afraid this isn't going to end well for you.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 10, 2019 3:18pm #4

    Not going to end well for me? Lol. I’ll be okay. Confused by the responses - you think bc a kid is 11 and not going to place it’s okay to just let them decide a score bc Johnny didn’t know better or bc it’s his first tourney? His dad certainly knew the infraction when it happened.

    Let’s just not call travel in basketball bc it’s his first basketball game.

  • DZClarkDZClark Members Posts: 196 ✭✭✭

    I have a 5-year-old who competed in her first tournament this weekend, our Jr Club Championship.
    I can't tell you how much I look forward to running into people like you as we progress. You do realize you had an opportunity to teach a kid? Maybe they didn't know the rulebook as well as they should have, but honestly, I would have used this as an opportunity to teach my daughter that you can help people along the way without making us the outcast. You may be fine with it, but I bet your kid pays the price for your attitude as you move forward. Just my opinion and I am sure you and your kid will be fine either way.

  • jholzjholz Members Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't get these responses either. You might get more positive ones in the rules forum.

    I, for one, certainly think that you are right for enforcing the rules and protecting the field in this situation. You might have found a slightly more diplomatic way to go about it, but in the end, I applaud both your courage and conviction. Well done.

    The whole "he's only ten and it's his first tournament" line is seriously weak. Ultimately, if the father wants his kid to play tournament golf, then both of them are accepting a responsibility to play by the rules and penalties when they don't. Without that, I don't think you have a golf tournament anymore. It's just masturbation.

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  • darter79darter79 Members Posts: 741 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yellowlover519 said:
    Not going to end well for me? Lol. I’ll be okay. Confused by the responses - you think bc a kid is 11 and not going to place it’s okay to just let them decide a score bc Johnny didn’t know better or bc it’s his first tourney? His dad certainly knew the infraction when it happened.

    Let’s just not call travel in basketball bc it’s his first basketball game.

    actually depending on the level they don't my brother is a ref on multiple sports and my daughter plays basketball I can tell you first hand they don't call things by the book the first game. Same with baseball they will call 'balls' strikes ect its not a bad call its just letting the kids play. is this the same for golf? depends on how you want to look at it. We were playing in a tournament where my kid was going to win and both playing partners broke rules did I call it on them? No one because one was a mom who never caddies and trying to be friendly asking me what club we were going to hit, two I don't see the need when at that time my kid is up by 10. Especially when they are new, but that just my take. I get protecting the field but I also do believe in education and warnings before hand different story if you are dealing with a vet who just trying to take advantage of the rules.

  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,963 ClubWRX

    Since you want your son to play by the rules, which I agree with BTW, only the player, a referee or the committee can add a penalty stroke to someone's score. Effectively, you're teaching your son that he can enforce penalties on other players which is not the case.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:
    Not going to end well for me? Lol. I’ll be okay. Confused by the responses - you think bc a kid is 11 and not going to place it’s okay to just let them decide a score bc Johnny didn’t know better or bc it’s his first tourney? His dad certainly knew the infraction when it happened.

    Let’s just not call travel in basketball bc it’s his first basketball game.

    Respectfully, "I announced" were you a rules official or somehow tied into the event? You're not responsible for the kid's score, he is. If your son wants to debate his FC's actions post round, it should be done with an official and I'd have given the player or his Dad a quiet heads up, not ANNOUNCED his score.

    You don’t announce scores after every hole? I’ve seen that happen at tourneys from age 5. Rules official? What’s the point of keeping another player’s score? I did tell the dad he can keep his score and discuss at the scorer’s table. It’s my job to teach the rules of golf when his dad clearly knew what was happening and immediately told him he couldn’t do that? Learning moment at ages 6,7,8 — maybe. Better learning moment for assessing the correct penalty. At age 11 just let kids drop for OB or lost ball penalties. Take mulligans? It’s all learning, right?

    Yes - my son is the one that tried to verify the score. He’s been in the habit of doing that as well.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭

    @DZClark said:
    I have a 5-year-old who competed in her first tournament this weekend, our Jr Club Championship.
    I can't tell you how much I look forward to running into people like you as we progress. You do realize you had an opportunity to teach a kid? Maybe they didn't know the rulebook as well as they should have, but honestly, I would have used this as an opportunity to teach my daughter that you can help people along the way without making us the outcast. You may be fine with it, but I bet your kid pays the price for your attitude as you move forward. Just my opinion and I am sure you and your kid will be fine either way.

    Club championships for juniors and real golf tourneys are two different ball games. It’s like comparing rec basketball to aau.

  • mrshinsamrshinsa Members Posts: 229 ✭✭✭

    Just don't do it and let the kids play. If you really want, let your kid call the penalty and gain the glory for "protecting the field".

  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,963 ClubWRX

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:
    Not going to end well for me? Lol. I’ll be okay. Confused by the responses - you think bc a kid is 11 and not going to place it’s okay to just let them decide a score bc Johnny didn’t know better or bc it’s his first tourney? His dad certainly knew the infraction when it happened.

    Let’s just not call travel in basketball bc it’s his first basketball game.

    Respectfully, "I announced" were you a rules official or somehow tied into the event? You're not responsible for the kid's score, he is. If your son wants to debate his FC's actions post round, it should be done with an official and I'd have given the player or his Dad a quiet heads up, not ANNOUNCED his score.

    You don’t announce scores after every hole? I’ve seen that happen at tourneys from age 5. Rules official? What’s the point of keeping another player’s score? I did tell the dad he can keep his score and discuss at the scorer’s table. It’s my job to teach the rules of golf when his dad clearly knew what was happening and immediately told him he couldn’t do that? Learning moment at ages 6,7,8 — maybe. Better learning moment for assessing the correct penalty. At age 11 just let kids drop for OB or lost ball penalties. Take mulligans? It’s all learning, right?

    Yes - my son is the one that tried to verify the score. He’s been in the habit of doing that as well.

    You won't see in any of my comments where I suggest violating the rules. My point is that you as a third party unless you're part of the event, aren't in a position to assess a penalty which you attempted to do. If the FC said he had a 5 and your son believes he had a 6 it's up to them to present the facts to the referee or the committee and they are the ones who make the decision, not you. Using your hoops analogy, if you're watching your son play and he travels, are you OK with a Dad on another team who is spectating, stopping the game and announcing your son traveled? It's not the spectator's responsibility, it's the referee's responsibility.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭

    @DavePelz4 said:
    Since you want your son to play by the rules, which I agree with BTW, only the player, a referee or the committee can add a penalty stroke to someone's score. Effectively, you're teaching your son that he can enforce penalties on other players which is not the case.

    When you write your competitors score on the scorecard you’re taking, you’re not enforcing rules and writing the strokes correctly? We’re not talking about an ambiguous situation that requires a rules official. Pretty black and white in this situation - as most situations if you know the rules. Why do you keep confusing accurate scores with enforcing a penalty? I wasn’t trying to enforce a penalty — I told the dad he was free to contest scores after the round.

    To the ones that say there are too many quirks in the rules to follow or it’s not gaining a competitive advantage and, therefore, a warning suffices — I strongly disagree.

    I guess this does happen a lot more than I thought — pretty concerning and the parents are to blame.

  • BloctonGolf11BloctonGolf11 Members Posts: 378 ✭✭✭✭

    Technically, the kid deserved the penalty for marking and lifting the ball; however, I have to agree with what most others are saying. If we are talking about a truly new player and their first tournament I think you could of excused this and discussed it with the parent. Even if your son wanted to assess the penalty it would have been better to discuss it quietly than "announcing" it. Sometimes it is okay to do what is right instead of what is legal. Like someone else said, if he was on the fringe he really did not improve his lie or position. You can rest easy in the fact of what you did was legal and if you are comfortable with that than it it what it is, personally I just think there are times to help a new kid out and use it as a learning opportunity.

    Just a father and son on a journey together through golf....
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:
    Not going to end well for me? Lol. I’ll be okay. Confused by the responses - you think bc a kid is 11 and not going to place it’s okay to just let them decide a score bc Johnny didn’t know better or bc it’s his first tourney? His dad certainly knew the infraction when it happened.

    Let’s just not call travel in basketball bc it’s his first basketball game.

    Respectfully, "I announced" were you a rules official or somehow tied into the event? You're not responsible for the kid's score, he is. If your son wants to debate his FC's actions post round, it should be done with an official and I'd have given the player or his Dad a quiet heads up, not ANNOUNCED his score.

    You don’t announce scores after every hole? I’ve seen that happen at tourneys from age 5. Rules official? What’s the point of keeping another player’s score? I did tell the dad he can keep his score and discuss at the scorer’s table. It’s my job to teach the rules of golf when his dad clearly knew what was happening and immediately told him he couldn’t do that? Learning moment at ages 6,7,8 — maybe. Better learning moment for assessing the correct penalty. At age 11 just let kids drop for OB or lost ball penalties. Take mulligans? It’s all learning, right?

    Yes - my son is the one that tried to verify the score. He’s been in the habit of doing that as well.

    You won't see in any of my comments where I suggest violating the rules. My point is that you as a third party unless you're part of the event, aren't in a position to assess a penalty which you attempted to do. If the FC said he had a 5 and your son believes he had a 6 it's up to them to present the facts to the referee or the committee and they are the ones who make the decision, not you. Using your hoops analogy, if you're watching your son play and he travels, are you OK with a Dad on another team who is spectating, stopping the game and announcing your son traveled? It's not the spectator's responsibility, it's the referee's responsibility.

    It wasn’t as confrontational as you think. How many times did I say that I told him he was free to write whatever score he thought was correct and discuss at the scorer’s table? I just don’t get this whole attitude - it’s Johnny’s first tournament - just give a warning nonsense. So teach my kid to just say it’s okay — you’re not that good so just remember you can’t do that???? Protecting the field is just an ideology?

  • BloctonGolf11BloctonGolf11 Members Posts: 378 ✭✭✭✭

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:
    Since you want your son to play by the rules, which I agree with BTW, only the player, a referee or the committee can add a penalty stroke to someone's score. Effectively, you're teaching your son that he can enforce penalties on other players which is not the case.

    When you write your competitors score on the scorecard you’re taking, you’re not enforcing rules and writing the strokes correctly? We’re not talking about an ambiguous situation that requires a rules official. Pretty black and white in this situation - as most situations if you know the rules. Why do you keep confusing accurate scores with enforcing a penalty? I wasn’t trying to enforce a penalty — I told the dad he was free to contest scores after the round.

    To the ones that say there are too many quirks in the rules to follow or it’s not gaining a competitive advantage and, therefore, a warning suffices — I strongly disagree.

    I guess this does happen a lot more than I thought — pretty concerning and the parents are to blame.

    I don't think it happens a lot at all actually. In my son's case we have had one issue in 3 years and my son called out his own buddy for an infraction; however, that kid was a seasoned player (World's player) and did something he knew was completely wrong as he lifted and placed a ball in the fairway despite playing the ball down that tournament. Other than that single incident in 3 years and 30 + tourneys we have had zero issues.

    Just a father and son on a journey together through golf....
  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,963 ClubWRX

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:
    Since you want your son to play by the rules, which I agree with BTW, only the player, a referee or the committee can add a penalty stroke to someone's score. Effectively, you're teaching your son that he can enforce penalties on other players which is not the case.

    When you write your competitors score on the scorecard you’re taking, you’re not enforcing rules and writing the strokes correctly? We’re not talking about an ambiguous situation that requires a rules official. Pretty black and white in this situation - as most situations if you know the rules. Why do you keep confusing accurate scores with enforcing a penalty? I wasn’t trying to enforce a penalty — I told the dad he was free to contest scores after the round.

    To the ones that say there are too many quirks in the rules to follow or it’s not gaining a competitive advantage and, therefore, a warning suffices — I strongly disagree.

    I guess this does happen a lot more than I thought — pretty concerning and the parents are to blame.

    Did you give the young man the chance to share his score or did you determine what his score was for the hole and the announce it? Shouldn't it be your son who is taking the score and not you? On one hand you want your son to be following the rules, which I agree with, but you're injecting yourself into the competition. Why not teach your son how to handle this situation with grace and dignity?

  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,963 ClubWRX

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:
    Not going to end well for me? Lol. I’ll be okay. Confused by the responses - you think bc a kid is 11 and not going to place it’s okay to just let them decide a score bc Johnny didn’t know better or bc it’s his first tourney? His dad certainly knew the infraction when it happened.

    Let’s just not call travel in basketball bc it’s his first basketball game.

    Respectfully, "I announced" were you a rules official or somehow tied into the event? You're not responsible for the kid's score, he is. If your son wants to debate his FC's actions post round, it should be done with an official and I'd have given the player or his Dad a quiet heads up, not ANNOUNCED his score.

    You don’t announce scores after every hole? I’ve seen that happen at tourneys from age 5. Rules official? What’s the point of keeping another player’s score? I did tell the dad he can keep his score and discuss at the scorer’s table. It’s my job to teach the rules of golf when his dad clearly knew what was happening and immediately told him he couldn’t do that? Learning moment at ages 6,7,8 — maybe. Better learning moment for assessing the correct penalty. At age 11 just let kids drop for OB or lost ball penalties. Take mulligans? It’s all learning, right?

    Yes - my son is the one that tried to verify the score. He’s been in the habit of doing that as well.

    You won't see in any of my comments where I suggest violating the rules. My point is that you as a third party unless you're part of the event, aren't in a position to assess a penalty which you attempted to do. If the FC said he had a 5 and your son believes he had a 6 it's up to them to present the facts to the referee or the committee and they are the ones who make the decision, not you. Using your hoops analogy, if you're watching your son play and he travels, are you OK with a Dad on another team who is spectating, stopping the game and announcing your son traveled? It's not the spectator's responsibility, it's the referee's responsibility.

    It wasn’t as confrontational as you think. How many times did I say that I told him he was free to write whatever score he thought was correct and discuss at the scorer’s table? I just don’t get this whole attitude - it’s Johnny’s first tournament - just give a warning nonsense. So teach my kid to just say it’s okay — you’re not that good so just remember you can’t do that???? Protecting the field is just an ideology?

    Exactly where did I state that Johnny should be given a warning or forgiveness? And again, were you a spectator in this event or a referee or part of the tournament committee? My guess, and it is a guess because you haven't confirmed or denied it, is you were a spectator. How would you feel if another spectator made a comment to your son about a potential penalty in his round? In your OP you stated that YOU ANNOUNCED the score, not that the player announced his score.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:
    Since you want your son to play by the rules, which I agree with BTW, only the player, a referee or the committee can add a penalty stroke to someone's score. Effectively, you're teaching your son that he can enforce penalties on other players which is not the case.

    When you write your competitors score on the scorecard you’re taking, you’re not enforcing rules and writing the strokes correctly? We’re not talking about an ambiguous situation that requires a rules official. Pretty black and white in this situation - as most situations if you know the rules. Why do you keep confusing accurate scores with enforcing a penalty? I wasn’t trying to enforce a penalty — I told the dad he was free to contest scores after the round.

    To the ones that say there are too many quirks in the rules to follow or it’s not gaining a competitive advantage and, therefore, a warning suffices — I strongly disagree.

    I guess this does happen a lot more than I thought — pretty concerning and the parents are to blame.

    Did you give the young man the chance to share his score or did you determine what his score was for the hole and the announce it? Shouldn't it be your son who is taking the score and not you? On one hand you want your son to be following the rules, which I agree with, but you're injecting yourself into the competition. Why not teach your son how to handle this situation with grace and dignity?

    I didn’t announce the score to make a point of it. I just verified, like 90+% does after each hole. I did teach him how to handle it with grace and dignity - I told the dad that he can put whatever score he wants and they can discuss at the scorer’s table. My son was keeping score - as was I - as does every parent. Heck some parents use dashes like it’s Shawshank redemption.

  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,963 ClubWRX

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:
    Since you want your son to play by the rules, which I agree with BTW, only the player, a referee or the committee can add a penalty stroke to someone's score. Effectively, you're teaching your son that he can enforce penalties on other players which is not the case.

    When you write your competitors score on the scorecard you’re taking, you’re not enforcing rules and writing the strokes correctly? We’re not talking about an ambiguous situation that requires a rules official. Pretty black and white in this situation - as most situations if you know the rules. Why do you keep confusing accurate scores with enforcing a penalty? I wasn’t trying to enforce a penalty — I told the dad he was free to contest scores after the round.

    To the ones that say there are too many quirks in the rules to follow or it’s not gaining a competitive advantage and, therefore, a warning suffices — I strongly disagree.

    I guess this does happen a lot more than I thought — pretty concerning and the parents are to blame.

    Did you give the young man the chance to share his score or did you determine what his score was for the hole and the announce it? Shouldn't it be your son who is taking the score and not you? On one hand you want your son to be following the rules, which I agree with, but you're injecting yourself into the competition. Why not teach your son how to handle this situation with grace and dignity?

    I didn’t announce the score to make a point of it. I just verified, like 90+% does after each hole. I did teach him how to handle it with grace and dignity - I told the dad that he can put whatever score he wants and they can discuss at the scorer’s table. My son was keeping score - as was I - as does every parent. Heck some parents use dashes like it’s Shawshank redemption.

    Fundamental question. Were you a referee for the group or part of the tournament committee? Why wasn't your son keeping the FC's score?

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:
    Since you want your son to play by the rules, which I agree with BTW, only the player, a referee or the committee can add a penalty stroke to someone's score. Effectively, you're teaching your son that he can enforce penalties on other players which is not the case.

    When you write your competitors score on the scorecard you’re taking, you’re not enforcing rules and writing the strokes correctly? We’re not talking about an ambiguous situation that requires a rules official. Pretty black and white in this situation - as most situations if you know the rules. Why do you keep confusing accurate scores with enforcing a penalty? I wasn’t trying to enforce a penalty — I told the dad he was free to contest scores after the round.

    To the ones that say there are too many quirks in the rules to follow or it’s not gaining a competitive advantage and, therefore, a warning suffices — I strongly disagree.

    I guess this does happen a lot more than I thought — pretty concerning and the parents are to blame.

    Did you give the young man the chance to share his score or did you determine what his score was for the hole and the announce it? Shouldn't it be your son who is taking the score and not you? On one hand you want your son to be following the rules, which I agree with, but you're injecting yourself into the competition. Why not teach your son how to handle this situation with grace and dignity?

    I didn’t announce the score to make a point of it. I just verified, like 90+% does after each hole. I did teach him how to handle it with grace and dignity - I told the dad that he can put whatever score he wants and they can discuss at the scorer’s table. My son was keeping score - as was I - as does every parent. Heck some parents use dashes like it’s Shawshank redemption.

    Fundamental question. Were you a referee for the group or part of the tournament committee? Why wasn't your son keeping the FC's score?

    Do you have any experience in 12u golf with parent caddies? What experience do you have where parents aren’t verifying scores? Isn’t that part of the teaching?

  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members Posts: 193 ✭✭✭

    **** Junior forum crashing and burning again***********

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  • BloctonGolf11BloctonGolf11 Members Posts: 378 ✭✭✭✭

    @TripleBogeysrbetter said:
    **** Junior forum crashing and burning again***********

    Slow news day....

    Just a father and son on a journey together through golf....
  • Kcct82Kcct82 Members Posts: 126 ✭✭✭

    what a wonderful day, some excitement in the junior forum, it’s been too quiet.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:
    Since you want your son to play by the rules, which I agree with BTW, only the player, a referee or the committee can add a penalty stroke to someone's score. Effectively, you're teaching your son that he can enforce penalties on other players which is not the case.

    When you write your competitors score on the scorecard you’re taking, you’re not enforcing rules and writing the strokes correctly? We’re not talking about an ambiguous situation that requires a rules official. Pretty black and white in this situation - as most situations if you know the rules. Why do you keep confusing accurate scores with enforcing a penalty? I wasn’t trying to enforce a penalty — I told the dad he was free to contest scores after the round.

    To the ones that say there are too many quirks in the rules to follow or it’s not gaining a competitive advantage and, therefore, a warning suffices — I strongly disagree.

    I guess this does happen a lot more than I thought — pretty concerning and the parents are to blame.

    Did you give the young man the chance to share his score or did you determine what his score was for the hole and the announce it? Shouldn't it be your son who is taking the score and not you? On one hand you want your son to be following the rules, which I agree with, but you're injecting yourself into the competition. Why not teach your son how to handle this situation with grace and dignity?

    I didn’t announce the score to make a point of it. I just verified, like 90+% does after each hole. I did teach him how to handle it with grace and dignity - I told the dad that he can put whatever score he wants and they can discuss at the scorer’s table. My son was keeping score - as was I - as does every parent. Heck some parents use dashes like it’s Shawshank redemption.

    Fundamental question. Were you a referee for the group or part of the tournament committee? Why wasn't your son keeping the FC's score?

    It’s a serious question. Please don’t participate when you have zero experience/knowledge on this topic. Why do 6-year olds at USKG exchange scorecards? For the kids to keep score?

  • BertGABertGA Members Posts: 341 ✭✭✭✭

    @yellowlover519 said:
    It wasn’t as confrontational as you think. How many times did I say that I told him he was free to write whatever score he thought was correct and discuss at the scorer’s table? I just don’t get this whole attitude - it’s Johnny’s first tournament - just give a warning nonsense. So teach my kid to just say it’s okay — you’re not that good so just remember you can’t do that???? Protecting the field is just an ideology?

    .......
    “At the end of the hole, I announced the score (assessed a one stroke penalty for picking up the ball) and his dad got mad. Said - it’s his first tourney; why would I assess a penalty. I responded — haven’t heard that as an excuse to not follow rules — just trying to protect the field (his son wasn’t going to place anyway). Wasn’t pleasant the following 17 holes but didn’t care.”

    Your first post made it sound pretty confrontational. You did not mention any involvement of your son in the proceedings, nor the player you assessed for the penalty. Seemed to be two caddies fighting over a stroke on the first hole of a local tournament.

    If it happened differently, as you seem to be insisting, perhaps describe it a little better in the original post. Some posters don’t take the time to read the entire thread, just respond to the OP.

  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX Posts: 24,963 ClubWRX

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:

    @yellowlover519 said:

    @DavePelz4 said:
    Since you want your son to play by the rules, which I agree with BTW, only the player, a referee or the committee can add a penalty stroke to someone's score. Effectively, you're teaching your son that he can enforce penalties on other players which is not the case.

    When you write your competitors score on the scorecard you’re taking, you’re not enforcing rules and writing the strokes correctly? We’re not talking about an ambiguous situation that requires a rules official. Pretty black and white in this situation - as most situations if you know the rules. Why do you keep confusing accurate scores with enforcing a penalty? I wasn’t trying to enforce a penalty — I told the dad he was free to contest scores after the round.

    To the ones that say there are too many quirks in the rules to follow or it’s not gaining a competitive advantage and, therefore, a warning suffices — I strongly disagree.

    I guess this does happen a lot more than I thought — pretty concerning and the parents are to blame.

    Did you give the young man the chance to share his score or did you determine what his score was for the hole and the announce it? Shouldn't it be your son who is taking the score and not you? On one hand you want your son to be following the rules, which I agree with, but you're injecting yourself into the competition. Why not teach your son how to handle this situation with grace and dignity?

    I didn’t announce the score to make a point of it. I just verified, like 90+% does after each hole. I did teach him how to handle it with grace and dignity - I told the dad that he can put whatever score he wants and they can discuss at the scorer’s table. My son was keeping score - as was I - as does every parent. Heck some parents use dashes like it’s Shawshank redemption.

    Fundamental question. Were you a referee for the group or part of the tournament committee? Why wasn't your son keeping the FC's score?

    Do you have any experience in 12u golf with parent caddies? What experience do you have where parents aren’t verifying scores? Isn’t that part of the teaching?

    Here's what you said in your OP regarding the other kid's Dad and the question he asked..."why would I assess a penalty." Without you being a referee or a part of the committee which seems apparent now that you were neither, you didn't take the competitors score, you decided what it was and announced it.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members Posts: 397 ✭✭✭✭

    The point of the post was not whether it was confrontational or polite. The point was to gather information and thoughts on how loosely people are taking the rules at these junior events. I could care less how it is addressed and didn’t feel the need to explain how nice or an **** I was about the situation. I’m not looking for a pat on my back for addressing the situation correctly. I was merely asking if this is what others see happening on their local tours.

  • JJK947JJK947 Members Posts: 3,211 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 10, 2019 4:33pm #31

    Did you have an opportunity to say something before the ball was picked up? I would have said something when I saw someone reaching for a ball not on the green, if possible. The kid's dad really should have been the one to bring up the infraction, not put the onus on you. I would have given the dad the opportunity by saying something to him before announcing the score.

    Either way, competitive golf is a voluntary activity, not the first day of school. If you show up, you're expected to be prepared and play by the rules. Expecting free passes on rules infractions and then getting mad when someone calls you on it is pretty embarrassing.

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