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Best solution to sore fingers, hands- inserts, grips, graphite?

GuitarsGolfKYGuitarsGolfKY Members Posts: 11 ✭✭

I need to do something regarding my hand pain. I get some seriously sore finger joints after I play golf sometimes- it feels like I constantly need to pull on my fingers to release the pressure in my knuckles. Ive always popped my fingers some- but not even daily in my later years- only when doing tasks that are extremely taxing.

What have you all found to be the best solution? Grips? inserts? graphite shafts? If so what are the best of each? Id love to play some super soft grips like winn excels (well they feel super bouji but I dont know if I'd actually like em) but worry about wet weather performance and durability- but if they help the pain I could be all in.

I do have sweaty hands sometimes- so i've been thinking maybe some of the leather grips from best grip along with some shaft inserts might help me reduce pressure with an ultra tacky grip- but not sure the shaft vibration dampeners really help all that much for finger pain- I really dont have any elbow, shoulder or wrist pain... yet

Insight appreciated!

Comments

  • GuitarsGolfKYGuitarsGolfKY Members Posts: 11 ✭✭

    Also I dont really get many stingers with my bridgestone j38 irons- theyre 1020 forged and I really never get anything like the feeling of hitting a cast club off the toe- or even the sting of a titleist forging hit a little off center- so i'm not sure i'm taking all that much vibration into my joints- the worst stinger off these feels like a playable strike with most irons i've hit

  • jvincentjvincent Members Posts: 809 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What grips are you playing now?

    Several years ago I tried out some of the soft Winns and within a week of switching all of my fingers were sore. Took them off, put my old model back on and pain was gone. I don't know if it was the size or the texture, but they did not agree with me at all.

    Cobra F9 9* : Tour AD TP 7-S
    Cobra LTD set at 16* : Tour AD TP 8-S
    Cobra 3U set at 19.5* : Nippon Modus3 130-S
    Wishon 565MC 4-PW : Nippon Modus3 130-S
    Cleveland RTX3 50, 54, 58 : Nippon Modus3 130-S
    Piretti Potenza 370g : Breakthrough Technology Stability Shaft - 34"

  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers Posts: 13,526 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    1. Don't hit off of mats
    2. graphite is probably the best answer
    3. softer flex shafts
    4. grips that are designed to absorb shock work well, could try larger grips as well.
    5. Those shock absorbing inserts you can put in shafts help, although I think graphite helps more. ymmv
    6. If you dig then higher bounce wider soled irons.
    7. Advil, CBD, ice, massage.
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS or Vokey M Grind 58
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • DLiverDLiver Members Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @dlygrisse said:
    1. Don't hit off of mats
    2. graphite is probably the best answer
    3. softer flex shafts
    4. grips that are designed to absorb shock work well, could try larger grips as well.
    5. Those shock absorbing inserts you can put in shafts help, although I think graphite helps more. ymmv
    6. If you dig then higher bounce wider soled irons.
    7. Advil, CBD, ice, massage.

    As a "hand pain guy," I agree with this 100%.

  • animalgolfsanimalgolfs FL & OK Members Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I have psoriatic arthritis since '05 & began the change around '09. This is my personal experience:
    Grips are #1 then changing shafts. I found that shafts that are really butt stout just kill me{px - kbs tour 120 etc). Playing shafts with an active tip are God sends. Mats I don't have much experience with as I avoid them with a passion as it stands. Inserts do little with pain other than slight vibration dampening......if I hit on the toe it kills regardless.

    Grips again are the #1 thing that helps me. I can play Modus 125 with ease, so picking the correct bend profile is more important than just switching to graphite.

    CP2 midsized are my current fav

    G400 Max 9* Tour 65
    G400 14.5* Tour 75
    G400h 19* Tour 85
    G Crossover 21* Tour 85{410 on the way} 
    G700 5i & 6i Recoil 110 
    i500 7-UW Recoil 110
    3.0 54* & Eye 2 58* Steelfiber i125
    2.0 B60 Stealth
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 11, 2019 8:26am #7

    @DLiver said:

    @dlygrisse said:
    1. Don't hit off of mats
    2. graphite is probably the best answer
    3. softer flex shafts
    4. grips that are designed to absorb shock work well, could try larger grips as well.
    5. Those shock absorbing inserts you can put in shafts help, although I think graphite helps more. ymmv
    6. If you dig then higher bounce wider soled irons.
    7. Advil, CBD, ice, massage.

    As a "hand pain guy," I agree with this 100%.

    As one, I'd mostly agree but would change the order.

    1. Graphite.
    2. Grips - both shock absorption (GP CP2's or Lamkin Comfort plus) but also making sure you have the best size to reduce grip pressure.
    3. Prosoft inserts can be added to graphite shafts for additional relief if needed.
    4. NSAID's, either over the counter or prescriptions from a rheumatologist.

    You're results may vary but after switching to graphite, I didn't have any problems hitting off mats any more. Even when I was still pretty steep into impact.

    Dr's should be consulted to make sure the pain isn't coming from a treatable condition.

    Some may benefit from lighter shafts - but not everyone. And if one goes too light, the swing can suffer.

    Most wont really benefit much from a softer flex or profile. It's the high frequency vibrations from impact that cause most of the problems, not the low frequency response of the swing loading/unloading. Now that's not saying it's not important to get the right flex. e.g. if one is playing a shaft that is too stiff for the individual, it can make a difference since it can cause the golfer to over swing (try and swing harder) to try to load the shaft more than they would with a more natural swing. And even that tends to be more relevant to elbow issues than hand issues.

  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 11, 2019 9:19am #8

    @Stuart_G said:

    @DLiver said:

    @dlygrisse said:
    1. Don't hit off of mats
    2. graphite is probably the best answer
    3. softer flex shafts
    4. grips that are designed to absorb shock work well, could try larger grips as well.
    5. Those shock absorbing inserts you can put in shafts help, although I think graphite helps more. ymmv
    6. If you dig then higher bounce wider soled irons.
    7. Advil, CBD, ice, massage.

    As a "hand pain guy," I agree with this 100%.

    As one, I'd mostly agree but would change the order.

    1. Graphite.
    2. Grips - both shock absorption (GP CP2's or Lamkin Comfort plus) but also making sure you have the best size to reduce grip pressure.
    3. Prosoft inserts can be added to graphite shafts for additional relief if needed.
    4. NSAID's, either over the counter or prescriptions from a rheumatologist.

    You're results may vary but after switching to graphite, I didn't have any problems hitting off mats any more. Even when I was still pretty steep into impact.

    Dr's should be consulted to make sure the pain isn't coming from a treatable condition.

    Some may benefit from lighter shafts - but not everyone. And if one goes too light, the swing can suffer.

    Most wont really benefit much from a softer flex or profile. It's the high frequency vibrations from impact that cause most of the problems, not the low frequency response of the swing loading/unloading. Now that's not saying it's not important to get the right flex. e.g. if one is playing a shaft that is too stiff for the individual, it can make a difference since it can cause the golfer to over swing (try and swing harder) to try to load the shaft more than they would with a more natural swing. And even that tends to be more relevant to elbow issues than hand issues.

    What Stuart G said....

    • im in the same boat, so i play Graphite and Jumbo sized grips, while grip charts suggest standard plus 2 layers of BU, but thats not enough to make my hands feel good both during and after play. I get cramps in my hands if i play anything below MID size, so grip sizing is a relief for my hands, while Graphite was combined weight and dampening (no steel shafts in that weight range, so inserts was not a option like the DG Sensicore i used to play)
      Im very happy with it, and i would never consider steel shafts again.

    Today we have so many options in Graphite, its no longer "a lighter option", we can get the weight and profile we want, so just go for it, and try out Graphite options in the weight range that fits you, and try a larger grip while you are add it, you want regret it.

  • denkeadenkea Members Posts: 405 ✭✭✭✭

    Is is possible that you are gripping the clubs with a death grip??? A grip that is way too hard???

    Hold the club out directly in front of you (parallel to the ground) and slightly loosen your grip until the head just starts to droop toward the ground. Stop at this point. That should be the grip pressure you would need to hold the club during a swing. HTH

  • GuitarsGolfKYGuitarsGolfKY Members Posts: 11 ✭✭

    Thanks! I'm currently playing tour velvet standard sized grips- i'm really not much of a fan. What grips should I try? ive seen avon chamois recommended as shock absorptive but I really didnt think they had a ton in the way of that. I have sweaty hands so I cant use the shiny tour wraps- though the lamkin crossline wraps looked pretty awesome in the store the other day- seemed soft and more likely to be grippy for my hands.

    I think I'm gonna go graphite first- but might as well go all out. I guess... to the people that have tried graphite, inserts and grips (or a combo of two)- would i be on my way to losing all the feel? Like I said these bridgestone j38s really do not punish you unless you hit it horribly wrong. like all the way out past the grooves. Ive tried playing 718 ap2s, 716 cbs, callaway steel heads, even mizuno jpx850 forged I felt were punishing. So with the bridgestones I honestly feel like I get less feedback on misses than most clubs ive tried- which i'm still in the development phase as I just started playing again after a year.
    Has anyone found luck with the aerotech steelfibers? I know theyre supposed to be 'like' steel shafts. so just want to make sure they have the same shock absorptive properties as other graphites.

  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Graphite shafts will reduce the feedback you get on the impact from the irons. At first it might feel like it's been lost completely but with some time and effort most can relearn to read the more subtle feedback that's still there.

  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Stuart_G said:
    Graphite shafts will reduce the feedback you get on the impact from the irons. At first it might feel like it's been lost completely but with some time and effort most can relearn to read the more subtle feedback that's still there.

    i would not say it that way, but its harder to feel the bad ones as bad ones, they feel almost like the good ones, at least to start with, so feel is different, but IMO better...i dont feel the need to punish my hands, elbows and shoulders, its punishment enough to see the ball go someplace i did not want it to go, it does tell me what i need to know.
    Most of us are used to Graphite in the driver, woods and hybrids, so Graphite irons want be that different on feedback from the others, just go for a low TQ model if you want stronger feedback on mis-hits.

  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @Howard Jones said:

    @Stuart_G said:
    Graphite shafts will reduce the feedback you get on the impact from the irons. At first it might feel like it's been lost completely but with some time and effort most can relearn to read the more subtle feedback that's still there.

    i would not say it that way, but its harder to feel the bad ones as bad ones, they feel almost like the good ones, at least to start with, so feel is different,

    That's actually pretty much what I meant. I was referring to the Feedback of the quality of the impact being reduced which is the same as being less of a difference between the good ones and the bad ones. Also can mean loosing a sense of where the miss was just based on the feel.

  • cristphotocristphoto Members Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Make sure you have the proper size grips first. Then install some Pro-Soft inserts if you have steel shafts in your irons. I have a touch or arthritis and have done these items. Also I keep a hand squeezer in my car that I use while driving to the course. I alternate hands (about a 15 minute drive) and find that this really loosens up my joints. Finally you should not be cracking your knuckles as this is bad for the joints.

  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a completely unproven myth that cracking your knuckles contributes to arthritis.

  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    One aggravating factor in hot weather could be slight dehydration. I played in a couple of 36-hole tournaments with Heat Index > 110*F. By the back nine Day 2 my hands and forearms were feeling a bit crampy.

    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr.
           4i refitted with SteelFiber 780 HLS Hybrid shaft R Flex 75 gr.
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS +
    MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr. |
    Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) / 34" w. Ping Pistol PP60 grip (stock)
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperSoft
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • GuitarsGolfKYGuitarsGolfKY Members Posts: 11 ✭✭

    @ChipNRun said:
    One aggravating factor in hot weather could be slight dehydration. I played in a couple of 36-hole tournaments with Heat Index > 110*F. By the back nine Day 2 my hands and forearms were feeling a bit Crappy. “

    Interesting... I’ve defijitely been getting dehydrated. I actually have something going on where I’m getting insanely dehydrated regardless of my normal potassium water and salt intake. One day I started getting slight cramps in my calf on my driver finish on the last 9. Then I played (and I even rode) in some super hot heat. Later that night I couldn’t lay down without my legs cramping I actually had to stand flat footed and luckily my mother had left an old rx she had in my car. Some super rx potassium. I took a half and with all the water I’d already took in I was better within an hour. It was bad like I couldn’t hold a muscle the slightlest bit tense without it cramping- like my back my hips my hands.

    BUT- does hand muscle cramping translate to joint pain? This pain I’m talking about makes my hands feel like I need to pop my knuckles every 30 minutes and they do pop (like a stretch pull my fingers pop in both knuckles.

    I just played today with focus on a much looser grip. But it was also pretty hot and only played nine. So we’ll see.

    I’m actually worried about getting shafts with less feel. The Bridgestone j38s I play are the dual pocket cavities and they are so soft that I NEVER get stingers. Never. I can hit it bad on the toe and it can sound good and it really only feels like it came a bit week off the face I can tell it’s the toe by the way the face deflects. I don’t know I just feel it’s a lot less obvious than other clubs. Which I probably need some more feedback in this early stage of swinging again.

    Thanks For the response. Let me know if your cramped hands can translate into what feels like stiff joints?

  • sneaky_petesneaky_pete insufficiently adult Members Posts: 246 ✭✭✭

    I used to get sore fingers after a weekend of golf. I went to midsized grips (Lamkin Rel Ace 3Gen Mid) a few years ago and can play golf all week without getting sore hands. Since gone to Lamkin UTX Cord in midsize and same deal - no finger pain. I think it has more to do with the extra diameter of the midsize grips than anything else about their construction.

    Driver: Ping G400 Max 9* Ping Tour 65 Stiff
    Fairway: Adams Speedline Super S Fairway 15* Matrix Ozik HD Radix S VI Shaft Stiff Flex
    Driving Iron: Mizuno Fli-Hi II 18* Driving Iron Mizuno Exsar Shaft Stiff Flex
    Irons: Maltby DBM Forged Irons 3 - 9 True Temper Dynalite Gold XP S300 Shafts
    Wedges: Cleveland CBX 46*, 52* & 58* Wedges True Temper Dynamic Gold 115 Wedge Shaft
    Putter: Cleveland TFI 2135 RHO fitted with Iomic Midsize Grip (Blue)
    Grips: Lamkin UTX Midsize (Black)
    Ball: Wilson Staff FG Tour
    GPS: Sonocaddie V300
    Range Finder: Leupold GX-3i2
    Cart: Clicgear 3.0
  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 17, 2019 1:53am #19

    @GuitarsGolfKY said:

    @ChipNRun said:
    One aggravating factor in hot weather could be slight dehydration. I played in a couple of 36-hole tournaments with Heat Index > 110*F. By the back nine Day 2 my hands and forearms were feeling a bit Crampy. “

    Interesting... I’ve defijitely been getting dehydrated. I actually have something going on where I’m getting insanely dehydrated regardless of my normal potassium water and salt intake. ... Later that night I couldn’t lay down without my legs cramping I actually had to stand flat footed and luckily my mother had left an old rx she had in my car. Some super rx potassium.

    I know the routine. Like my father, I have a potassium deficiency. In running or contact sports, I sometimes would get leg cramps at end of the event. As a kid, I would feel crampy in the legs if I caddied 36 holes in the same day.

    BUT- does hand muscle cramping translate to joint pain? This pain I’m talking about makes my hands feel like I need to pop my knuckles every 30 minutes and they do pop (like a stretch pull my fingers pop in both knuckles.

    Thanks For the response. Let me know if your cramped hands can translate into what feels like stiff joints?

    The cramped hands were cramping. I have an arthritic right hip than can get stiff on the back nine, so unfortunately I know the difference.
    One tip from boxing gyms: Drink some Pedialite before your workout or match. For you parents of toddlers, Pedialite is that drink which you give to sick children to replenish their electrolytes. The Pedialite contains concentrated electrolytes, and comes in various flavors such as orange, fruit punch, etc. It tastes like concentrated Gatorade. The drink also comes in store brands marketed by major drug chains.

    I drank a cup of Pedialite (with ice) before I went to play in the last tournament. No problems with cramping. I also brought along some trail mix so I didn't get hungry, and drank Gatorade on the back nine. A distance runner I know said that water is OK for the front nine, but after that water starts to flush out your electrolytes... hence Gatorade.

    @GuitarsGolfKY said:
    I just played today with focus on a much looser grip. But it was also pretty hot and only played nine. So we’ll see.

    As scientists say, the direction of the "causal arrow" might be the other way. Possibly the cramping feeling in the hands causes an involuntary increase in grip pressure, which we don't need?

    @sneaky_pete said:
    I used to get sore fingers after a weekend of golf. I went to midsized grips (Lamkin Rel Ace 3Gen Mid) a few years ago and can play golf all week without getting sore hands. Since gone to Lamkin UTX Cord in midsize and same deal - no finger pain. _ I think it has more to do with the extra diameter of the midsize grips than anything else about their construction._

    Pete mentions something I did several seasons ago: I went to midsize grips and had much more even grip pressure. (If the grip is too thin, some of us tend to clamp down so the club doesn't fly out of our hands.) Added point on grip variety: for years golf shops have had arthritic grips. These grips are designed for golfers with arthritis in the hands and forearms, and are thicker and have less taper.

    P.S. With some Pedialite and a fourth player, we may have the makings of an awesome scramble team!

    Post edited by ChipNRun on
    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr.
           4i refitted with SteelFiber 780 HLS Hybrid shaft R Flex 75 gr.
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS +
    MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr. |
    Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) / 34" w. Ping Pistol PP60 grip (stock)
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperSoft
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • bigred90gtbigred90gt Lefty Boomers Posts: 4,474 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 16, 2019 2:51pm #20

    @GuitarsGolfKY said:

    I’m actually worried about getting shafts with less feel. The Bridgestone j38s I play are the dual pocket cavities and they are so soft that I NEVER get stingers. Never. I can hit it bad on the toe and it can sound good and it really only feels like it came a bit week off the face I can tell it’s the toe by the way the face deflects. I don’t know I just feel it’s a lot less obvious than other clubs. Which I probably need some more feedback in this early stage of swinging again.

    Thanks For the response. Let me know if your cramped hands can translate into what feels like stiff joints?

    In my experience, there is no loss of feel switching to graphite. I was a long time PX player (for 10 years or so, went from 6.5 t 6.0 to 5.5 due to loss of speed over the years). General consensus (though I dont agree) is that PX is one of the more harsh feeling steel shafts. For my swing, they feel smoother than others, but most of what I read is opposite of what I feel. I recently switched from PX 5.5 to UST Recoil 110 F4, and lost nothing except the elbow pain. I have no issue feeling a mishit, or determining where on the face I missed based on the feel, it just isn't painful anymore. The mishits do not feel as harsh, but the first ball you flush and the first ball you miss, you can tell the difference. There is no "transition period" were you need to learn the feel. It is the same, just less harsh.

    With my elbow, it got to the point where I couldn't make it through 3-4 holes without pain, and I was eating anti-inflammatory pills like candy. If I played more than once a week, I could hardly move my arm after the second round. Since the switch, I play 3-4 times a week, and at worst, it might get a little sore toward the end of the week.

  • Bill BroderickBill Broderick Members Posts: 253 ✭✭✭✭

    When I was experiencing a lot of finger pain, I ended up finding this thread (it may be how I found GolfWRX) and realized that my pain was due to using an interlock grip. I tried going overlap. But, my hands really aren't big enough to do that comfortably. So, I ended up switching to a 10 finger grip and the pain went away. It took a little while to get used to the 10 finger grip. But, I did get used to it. I don't know if that's the problem here. But, since nobody mentioned the possibility, I figured that I would.

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