Best Driver of 2019 | Full Article _HERE_ | Discussion Thread _HERE_

Cavity Back Wedges

DMAICDMAIC Members Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

I've been looking at the CBX2s from Cleveland because I play 3 shorter public courses and find myself hitting a lot of full wedges on quite a few Par 3s and some Par 4s, so I'm interested in some more forgiveness over feel. I don't usually find myself needing to get up and down from tighter lies or pull off shots around the green where more of a blade wedge would be beneifical. I'm not buying what Cleveland is selling with their marketing pitch that people who play a cavity back iron should be playing a cavity back wedge, but for peole like me it seems like it makes sense. I'm wondering if I'm in the minority given the ratio of cavity back offerings to more muscle back traditional wedges though, but how much of a minority. I see a lot of players with SGI/GI irons and they perform well for them, and then they have really low bounce and specialized grinds on their wedges, and they struggle with them, sometimes even on partial fairway shots and around the green. Noticed this while caddying and playing. Is Cleveland onto something or is it too much of a niche market that isn't really underserved? I know there have been some CB wedge offerings in the past, but they never really caught on from a mass marketing perspective. Every wedge review from the last year or so have one cavity back (the CBX) and half a dozen MB wedges. Anyone have any thoughts on how much CB wedges have helped them if they've put them in play? I'm really baffled by the lack of CB wedge offerings and really don't see that I have much of a choice outside of the CBX line. I know Clevelend has a CB version of the RTX but I haven't found many other mainstream options.

Comments

  • Night trainNight train Members Posts: 2,871 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
  • harlequineharlequine Members Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited Sep 11, 2019 7:53am #3

    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

  • rkelso184rkelso184 Members Posts: 236 ✭✭✭

    Mizuno S18 are an exceptional wedge with great forgiveness

    Hitting it straight is overrated! 

  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, CanadaMembers Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @harlequine said:
    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

    ^^^This.

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  • dmeeksDCdmeeksDC ClubWRX Posts: 2,330 ClubWRX

    Lots of CB wedges out there. The Glides, Mizuno S5 and S18 are excellent, and the past Cleveland models, such as the 588 RTX 2.0, more of a midsize compared to the large CBX. For the size of the Glide heads, which are the perfect compact size to me, I doubt there is a more forgiving wedge. I played a Mizzy S5 gap wedge and it was great.

    Ping G400 9 degrees, Ping Tour stiff shaft, 65 grams
    Callaway XHot2 Pro 5 wood, 17 degrees, Aldila Tour Blue stiff shaft
    Titleist 915F fairway, 21 degrees, Diamana Blue 70 stiff
    Srixon 565 4 iron, Nippon 980GH stiff shaft
    Adams CMB irons, 5-PW, KBS C Taper regular shafts (110g)
    Titleist Vokey SM7 50 degree, F grind, Dynamic Gold S200 shaft
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 54-degree wedge, S grind, DG wedge shaft
    Ben Hogan TK wedge, 59 degree, KBS black wedge shaft
    TaylorMade TP Chaska putter, sliver, 34 inches
  • balls_deepballs_deep Wanna earn 14 bucks the hard way?Members Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 11, 2019 11:54am #7

    @dciccoritti said:

    @harlequine said:
    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

    ^^^This.

    We agree for once! At this loft the cavity does nothing.

    "Cavity back wedges for cavity back golfers" :D

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    Titleist 917F2 15.75°  Project X HZRDUS HC Black 75g
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  • OrlandogolfguruOrlandogolfguru OrlandoGolfGuru ClubWRX Posts: 2,067 ClubWRX

    agree w the above. i play both s18 and glide 3.0 (from 2.0) and all are super forgiving. i tried cbx and didnt see a difference, plus glide looks better.

    Taylormade M5 Driver
    TaylorMade M5 Fwy
    Mizuno CLK Hyb
    Mizuno MP20 HMB/MMC Irons
    Mizuno T20 Wedges
    Mannkrafted Putters
    Bridgestone ball, Mizuno Bag
  • KaiserSozeKaiserSoze Members Posts: 101 ✭✭✭
    edited Sep 11, 2019 12:57pm #9

    @balls_deep said:

    @dciccoritti said:

    @harlequine said:
    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

    ^^^This.

    We agree for once! At this loft the cavity does nothing.

    "Cavity back wedges for cavity back golfers" :D

    Not true. The cavity performs the same function in a wedge as it does in a 5 iron. It's just that there is more margin for strike error with the wedge becasue of the loft the misfire is not as penal.

  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members Posts: 3,657 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    I just replaced a T.Made Hi-Toe with a Cleveland 58* CBX and much prefer it for full shots. On pitches, I've reached no conclusion after one round.

    Cobra F8+, 10*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F2
    Cobra F8 3-4 wood 15.5*, VA Composites Raijin 44 F3

    Cobra F8 5-6 wood 17.5, Tensei Blue R
    Taylor Made Super Launch 22*, stock "R"
    Ping Eye 2 BeCu 4-9, Microlite S
    Vokey 200 Series 52 degree(bent to 50*), DG S-200
    Ping Glide 1.0 55*, CFS Wedge flex

    Cleveland CBX 58/10, DG 105
    Evnroll ER6

  • teedub21teedub21 Members Posts: 114 ✭✭✭

    I bought two CBX wedges and couldn’t get over how big they were compared to my other irons. Plus way too much bounce for my swing. Bought a Ping glide 2 ES. Looks great by the ball and plenty forgiving.

  • BetterAtBingoBetterAtBingo Members Posts: 23 ✭✭

    @rkelso184 said:
    Mizuno S18 are an exceptional wedge with great forgiveness

    Another vote for these. Not super soft but man do they perform.

  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers Posts: 490 ✭✭✭✭

    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • DMAICDMAIC Members Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    @rkelso184 said:
    Mizuno S18 are an exceptional wedge with great forgiveness

    Have been looking at these as well, funny they don't market them as cavity backs though and a lot of reviews state they are for lower handicap golfers.

  • DMAICDMAIC Members Posts: 82 ✭✭✭

    @dmeeksDC said:
    Lots of CB wedges out there. The Glides, Mizuno S5 and S18 are excellent, and the past Cleveland models, such as the 588 RTX 2.0, more of a midsize compared to the large CBX. For the size of the Glide heads, which are the perfect compact size to me, I doubt there is a more forgiving wedge. I played a Mizzy S5 gap wedge and it was great.

    I'm going to do some more research on the Glides, never was a Ping iron fan but sounds like people really like these.

  • deepreddeepred Members Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 11, 2019 9:35pm #16

    The purpose of having a cavity is to redistribute weight in the head to make it more resistant to twisting in your hand when the ball is struck away from the sweet spot. To me at least, the advantage of offset and or a cavity back is probably greater on a wedge because we are trying to hit short shots as straight as possible.

    Post edited by deepred on
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    Maltby Tricept TU 5 Iron
    Wilson Pi5 6-PW
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  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers Posts: 13,518 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭

    Glide

    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS or Vokey M Grind 58
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers Posts: 15,924 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 11, 2019 7:55pm #18

    The OP makes an accurate observation about users of forgiving SGI clubs having alleged non-forgiving blade wedges with fancy grind profiles in the bag, and struggle to make wedge shots. I have seen the same result as well.

    Titleist made a good product decision-creating stock grinds, however, they sell under the premise the buyer knows which grind is beneficial to their game and how to use it before purchase. There is no instruction manual. Without that advanced knowledge, grinds are problematic.

    That said, I don't accept CB wedges have nearly as much impact on improving shots as their wide soles that simulate more bounce to the wedges standard configuration. Unfortunately, CB wedges are not prevalent, so consider looking into a Vokey or other similar type wedges but with wide soles and bounce to get similar shot forgiveness and result. Last, it's an error in judgment to think ANY type wedge eliminates the need for practice. Practice, practice, practice.

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  • JoelsimJoelsim Members Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Sep 11, 2019 8:45pm #19

    @arbeck said:
    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    I’m not so sure about that. I was using a Ping G410 SW for the majority of my pitching and getting near the pin almost every time, distance control really good. Anyway, I decided to swap it for an RTX4 54 MID which is nowhere near as easy for me to gauge. So, I’m selling that and getting a CBX2. Had a CBX before the G410 and that was good too. Night and day difference on forgiveness.

    I say that as an average golfer who uses Cavity Backs, for reference I shot 7 over today, so not crap, but not great either.

    Ping G400 Driver 10.5 Reg Ping Alta 44.5”
    Cobra King Ltd Black 5 Wood Aldila Rogue Stiff
    Ping G410 19 Hybrid Stiff Alta
    Titleist 818 H1 23 Hybrid Regular Tensei Blue
    Ping G400 4-UW (#4 at power spec loft)
    Callaway Mack Daddy 4 58 X and 64 S
    Cleveland RTX4 54 MID
    Bettinardi Studio Stock #3, Studio Stock #28 Slotback, Studio Stock #38 & BB39
    Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Palm Beach & ProType No. 9
    Cleveland Huntington Beach #10
    Scotty Cameron California Del Mar
    Piretti Forza & Matera Elite
  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers Posts: 490 ✭✭✭✭

    @Joelsim said:

    @arbeck said:
    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    I’m not so sure about that. I was using a Ping G410 SW for the majority of my pitching and getting near the pin almost every time, distance control really good. Anyway, I decided to swap it for an RTX4 54 MID which is nowhere near as easy for me to gauge. So, I’m selling that and getting a CBX2. Had a CBX before the G410 and that was good too. Night and day difference on forgiveness.

    I say that as an average golfer who uses Cavity Backs, for reference I shot 7 over today, so not crap, but not great either.

    I would guess the extra bounce and wider sole of the Ping are making more of a difference than the cavity.

    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • JoelsimJoelsim Members Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @arbeck said:

    @Joelsim said:

    @arbeck said:
    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    I’m not so sure about that. I was using a Ping G410 SW for the majority of my pitching and getting near the pin almost every time, distance control really good. Anyway, I decided to swap it for an RTX4 54 MID which is nowhere near as easy for me to gauge. So, I’m selling that and getting a CBX2. Had a CBX before the G410 and that was good too. Night and day difference on forgiveness.

    I say that as an average golfer who uses Cavity Backs, for reference I shot 7 over today, so not crap, but not great either.

    I would guess the extra bounce and wider sole of the Ping are making more of a difference than the cavity.

    For sure the sole will help, but I’m pretty sure the CB will also stabilise slight mishits.

    Ping G400 Driver 10.5 Reg Ping Alta 44.5”
    Cobra King Ltd Black 5 Wood Aldila Rogue Stiff
    Ping G410 19 Hybrid Stiff Alta
    Titleist 818 H1 23 Hybrid Regular Tensei Blue
    Ping G400 4-UW (#4 at power spec loft)
    Callaway Mack Daddy 4 58 X and 64 S
    Cleveland RTX4 54 MID
    Bettinardi Studio Stock #3, Studio Stock #28 Slotback, Studio Stock #38 & BB39
    Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Palm Beach & ProType No. 9
    Cleveland Huntington Beach #10
    Scotty Cameron California Del Mar
    Piretti Forza & Matera Elite
  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers Posts: 490 ✭✭✭✭

    @Joelsim said:

    @arbeck said:

    @Joelsim said:

    @arbeck said:
    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    I’m not so sure about that. I was using a Ping G410 SW for the majority of my pitching and getting near the pin almost every time, distance control really good. Anyway, I decided to swap it for an RTX4 54 MID which is nowhere near as easy for me to gauge. So, I’m selling that and getting a CBX2. Had a CBX before the G410 and that was good too. Night and day difference on forgiveness.

    I say that as an average golfer who uses Cavity Backs, for reference I shot 7 over today, so not crap, but not great either.

    I would guess the extra bounce and wider sole of the Ping are making more of a difference than the cavity.

    For sure the sole will help, but I’m pretty sure the CB will also stabilise slight mishits.

    Sure, but once you have that much loft involved mishits don't twist the club face all that much and you don't lose much ball speed by not hitting the center of the club (the COG of a wedge often isn't in the center of the clubface anyway). Every little bit helps, but the amount you can help someone at more than 40* is minimal. Sole design becomes the much more important thing for help.

    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • HeckleHeckle Members Posts: 76 ✭✭✭

    Go with the mizunos...

  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, CanadaMembers Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @balls_deep said:

    @dciccoritti said:

    @harlequine said:
    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

    ^^^This.

    We agree for once! At this loft the cavity does nothing.

    "Cavity back wedges for cavity back golfers" :D

    I disagree. Although most look at CB's in terms of forgiveness, I do not. I look at CB's in terms of optimizing ball flight and turf interaction through weight distribution. Although I'm not personally sure what a wide sole wedge truly does and for what kind of swing, I do know that there are Tour players that play a wide sole in their 56 to 60. And I do know that a higher toe can raise CG and lower ball flight. Club designs and attributes are very important in terms of optimization.

    And let's not forget, wedge bounces these days are 'effective' and not 'actual'. So many might be surprised and how much bounce a 'low bounce' wedge has and how little bounce a 'mid to high bounce' wedge really has. The old Cleveland Smart Sole wedge with the super wide sole had only 6 degrees of actual bounce if memory serves. And the original Glide TS wedge has 23 degrees of actual bounce. Up to the individual to look at which designs works for their swing and optimizes their ball flight.

    As for the OP, I played the original Glide wedges and thought they were exceptional for full shots. Only wedge I ever played that looked like an iron for a full shot and looked like a wedge for partial and green side shots. Bit of a chameleon that wedge :-)

    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway

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  • SUITSSUITS Members Posts: 964 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The ping glide series is very forgiving with lots of options. Very pleasing size and shape as well

  • agolf1agolf1 Members Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    If you are playing GI/SGI irons, just playing the set wedges is another option. I play the G25 UW and SW - the UW is a no-brainer for me as it's a full swing club, and I like the consistent look/feel of the SW on non-greenside shots (pitches, partial swings, full swings). I've usually used some type of Eye 2 LW, which I guess is also a cavity. But as other's have said I think there are other attributes besides the cavity itself that is making the wedge attractive.

    I've also played with forged CB irons / Cleveland 588 (or 485s) as well. Each style has it's own pros/cons and as long as you know what they are I think it is fine.

    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, CanadaMembers Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭✭✭✭

    @agolf1 said:
    If you are playing GI/SGI irons, just playing the set wedges is another option. I play the G25 UW and SW - the UW is a no-brainer for me as it's a full swing club...

    Completely agree with this. When I played the G30, I had the UW, SW and LW for full shots only and they were excellent for that.

    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway

    • TS2
    • 716 MB 5-PW
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