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Cavity Back Wedges

 DMAIC ·  
DMAICDMAIC Members  82WRX Points: 20Posts: 82 Fairways
Joined:  in Equipment #1

I've been looking at the CBX2s from Cleveland because I play 3 shorter public courses and find myself hitting a lot of full wedges on quite a few Par 3s and some Par 4s, so I'm interested in some more forgiveness over feel. I don't usually find myself needing to get up and down from tighter lies or pull off shots around the green where more of a blade wedge would be beneifical. I'm not buying what Cleveland is selling with their marketing pitch that people who play a cavity back iron should be playing a cavity back wedge, but for peole like me it seems like it makes sense. I'm wondering if I'm in the minority given the ratio of cavity back offerings to more muscle back traditional wedges though, but how much of a minority. I see a lot of players with SGI/GI irons and they perform well for them, and then they have really low bounce and specialized grinds on their wedges, and they struggle with them, sometimes even on partial fairway shots and around the green. Noticed this while caddying and playing. Is Cleveland onto something or is it too much of a niche market that isn't really underserved? I know there have been some CB wedge offerings in the past, but they never really caught on from a mass marketing perspective. Every wedge review from the last year or so have one cavity back (the CBX) and half a dozen MB wedges. Anyone have any thoughts on how much CB wedges have helped them if they've put them in play? I'm really baffled by the lack of CB wedge offerings and really don't see that I have much of a choice outside of the CBX line. I know Clevelend has a CB version of the RTX but I haven't found many other mainstream options.

Posted:
1

Comments

  • Night trainNight train Members  2885WRX Points: 262Posts: 2,885 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2

    Ping Glide

    Posted:
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  • harlequineharlequine Members  81WRX Points: 54Posts: 81 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Sep 11, 2019 #3

    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

    Posted:
  • rkelso184rkelso184 Members  353WRX Points: 196Posts: 353 Greens
    Joined:  #4

    Mizuno S18 are an exceptional wedge with great forgiveness

    Posted:
  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, CanadaMembers  1708WRX Points: 405Posts: 1,708 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #5

    On -, @harlequine said:

    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

    ^^^This.

    Posted:
    • Titleist TS2
    • Titleist 716 MB 5-PW
    • Cleveland RTX 4 52 MID | 56 FULL | 60 XLOW
    • Special Select Newport 2
    • ProV1x
  • dmeeksDCdmeeksDC ClubWRX  3114WRX Points: 533Handicap: 7.6Posts: 3,114 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #6

    Lots of CB wedges out there. The Glides, Mizuno S5 and S18 are excellent, and the past Cleveland models, such as the 588 RTX 2.0, more of a midsize compared to the large CBX. For the size of the Glide heads, which are the perfect compact size to me, I doubt there is a more forgiving wedge. I played a Mizzy S5 gap wedge and it was great.

    Posted:
    Ping G30 SFT driver, 10 degree, Oban Kiyoshi HB 75 stiff
    Cobra F9 Speedback, 14.5 degree, Fujikura Atmos Blue 7S
    Callaway Epic Flash, 17 degree, HzRDUS Smoke 70 stiff
    Callaway Rogue, 21 degree, Diamana BF 80 stiff
    TaylorMade GAPR Hi 24, KBS TGI 80 stiff

    Srixon z765 (5-7(, z965 (8-P) Fujikura 95i TS stiff
    Callaway MD4 50 S grind, 54 W grind
    Ben Hogan Ft. Worth TK 58
    Odyssey Stroke Lab V-Line putter w/Pure grip
  • TigerInTheWoodsTigerInTheWoods Members  2718WRX Points: 1,757Handicap: 3Posts: 2,718 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Sep 11, 2019 #7

    On -, @dciccoritti said:

    On -, @harlequine said:

    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

    ^^^This.

    We agree for once! At this loft the cavity does nothing.

    "Cavity back wedges for cavity back golfers" :D

    Posted:

    ▪️ Ping G410 LST 9* PX Hzrdus Yellow 63g 6.5X

    ▪️ Taylormade Sim Max 15* Aldila Rogue 70x

    ▪️ Titleist 818 H1 @18* PX Hzrdus HC Black 85g

    ▪️ Miura CB-57 4-7, Miura MB-001 8-PW Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100

    ▪️ Vokey Forged 52F 56M | Vokey TVD 56M 58K 60K | Taylormade Hi-Toe 60ATV | Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400 (Change based on bag and course)

    ▪️ Byron Morgan DH89 34.75" Custom

    ▪️ Titleist Pro V1X | Srixon Z-Star XV | Taylormade TP5X

    ▪️ Ping Hoofer

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  • OrlandogolfguruOrlandogolfguru OrlandoGolfGuru ClubWRX  2203WRX Points: 206Handicap: 7.7Posts: 2,203 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #8

    agree w the above. i play both s18 and glide 3.0 (from 2.0) and all are super forgiving. i tried cbx and didnt see a difference, plus glide looks better.

    Posted:
    TM Sim Driver
    TM M5 Fwy
    Callaway Super 3 Hyb
    PXG 0311 G2 Irons
    PXG 0311 Milled Wedges
    Sacks Parente Putter
    Bridgestone ball, SunMountain Bag
  • KaiserSozeKaiserSoze Members  129WRX Points: 96Posts: 129 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Sep 11, 2019 #9

    On -, @balls_deep said:

    On -, @dciccoritti said:

    On -, @harlequine said:

    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

    ^^^This.

    We agree for once! At this loft the cavity does nothing.

    "Cavity back wedges for cavity back golfers" :D

    Not true. The cavity performs the same function in a wedge as it does in a 5 iron. It's just that there is more margin for strike error with the wedge becasue of the loft the misfire is not as penal.

    Posted:
  • rgk5rgk5 rgk5(OLB) Members  3883WRX Points: 475Handicap: 6Posts: 3,883 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #10

    I just replaced a T.Made Hi-Toe with a Cleveland 58* CBX and much prefer it for full shots. On pitches, I've reached no conclusion after one round.

    Posted:
    Cobra F9 10.5* D, VA Composites Raijin 44 F2
       Cobra F8 15.5* D , VA Composites Raijin 44  F2
    Cobra F8+ 17.5* D , Tensei Blue A
    Callaway 2020 Big Bertha 21* hybrid, UST Recoil F2
    TXG Custom, Mizuno JPX 919 Hotmetal 6-pw, "B" heads, 2* up, + 1/2", UST Recoil ESX 460 R
    Cobra MIM 50*, Accra 60i R
    Ping Glide 1.0 54.5*, Accra 90i R
    Ping Eye 2+ SW/LW, 57.5*, Accra 90i R
    Taylor Made TP Red Chaska, 35"
  • teedub21teedub21 Members  194WRX Points: 109Handicap: Rising. Posts: 194 Fairways
    Joined:  #11

    I bought two CBX wedges and couldn’t get over how big they were compared to my other irons. Plus way too much bounce for my swing. Bought a Ping glide 2 ES. Looks great by the ball and plenty forgiving.

    Posted:
  • BetterAtBingoBetterAtBingo Members  153WRX Points: 34Posts: 153 Fairways
    Joined:  #12

    On -, @rkelso184 said:

    Mizuno S18 are an exceptional wedge with great forgiveness

    Another vote for these. Not super soft but man do they perform.

    Posted:

    Driver: Epic Flash SZ <-> ATMOS Red 7X

    Fairway: M4 3HL <-> TENSEI Pro Blue 90TX

    Hybrid: Apex '16 <-> HZRDUS Black 105X

    Irons: Apex Pro '16 H20 <-> NIPPON 105S

    Wedges: CBX2 50° / 56° Full Face <-> NIPPON C10S

    Putter: Senita B 400g Slight Arc

    Ball: Tour B RXS

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  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers  703WRX Points: 393Handicap: 14.5Posts: 703 Golden Tee
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    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    Posted:
    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Ping G410 4H
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • DMAICDMAIC Members  82WRX Points: 20Posts: 82 Fairways
    Joined:  #14

    On -, @rkelso184 said:

    Mizuno S18 are an exceptional wedge with great forgiveness

    Have been looking at these as well, funny they don't market them as cavity backs though and a lot of reviews state they are for lower handicap golfers.

    Posted:
  • DMAICDMAIC Members  82WRX Points: 20Posts: 82 Fairways
    Joined:  #15

    On -, @dmeeksDC said:

    Lots of CB wedges out there. The Glides, Mizuno S5 and S18 are excellent, and the past Cleveland models, such as the 588 RTX 2.0, more of a midsize compared to the large CBX. For the size of the Glide heads, which are the perfect compact size to me, I doubt there is a more forgiving wedge. I played a Mizzy S5 gap wedge and it was great.

    I'm going to do some more research on the Glides, never was a Ping iron fan but sounds like people really like these.

    Posted:
  • deepreddeepred Members  382WRX Points: 113Handicap: 12Posts: 382 Greens
    Joined:  edited Sep 11, 2019 #16

    The purpose of having a cavity is to redistribute weight in the head to make it more resistant to twisting in your hand when the ball is struck away from the sweet spot. To me at least, the advantage of offset and or a cavity back is probably greater on a wedge because we are trying to hit short shots as straight as possible.

    Posted:
    Post edited by deepred on
    Cleveland Classic XL Driver
    KE4 5 wood 17* 43”
    Maltby MXU 23* 
    Maltby Tricept TU 5 Iron
    Wilson Pi5 6-PW
    Wilson JP 55* SW
    Ram Watson Troon Grind 58
    Ray Cook M2 Mallet
  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13984WRX Points: 1,537Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,984 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #17

    Glide

    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood
    Ping G 400 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Hoofer
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
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  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers  16996WRX Points: 1,082Handicap: 4-5Posts: 16,996 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Sep 11, 2019 #18

    The OP makes an accurate observation about users of forgiving SGI clubs having alleged non-forgiving blade wedges with fancy grind profiles in the bag, and struggle to make wedge shots. I have seen the same result as well.

    Titleist made a good product decision-creating stock grinds, however, they sell under the premise the buyer knows which grind is beneficial to their game and how to use it before purchase. There is no instruction manual. Without that advanced knowledge, grinds are problematic.

    That said, I don't accept CB wedges have nearly as much impact on improving shots as their wide soles that simulate more bounce to the wedges standard configuration. Unfortunately, CB wedges are not prevalent, so consider looking into a Vokey or other similar type wedges but with wide soles and bounce to get similar shot forgiveness and result. Last, it's an error in judgment to think ANY type wedge eliminates the need for practice. Practice, practice, practice.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
    Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
    Titleist 718 T-MB 17* 2i, Steelfiber i95cw "S"
    Titleist 620 3i i95cw "S"
    Titleist 620 4i-PW, Steelfiber i110 "S"
    SM6 F-52/8, Steelfiber i125 "S"
    SM6 M-58/8, DG-S200
    SC California Monterey
    ProV1 & AVX





  • JoelsimJoelsim Members  1529WRX Points: 565Handicap: 12Posts: 1,529 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Sep 11, 2019 #19

    On -, @arbeck said:

    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    I’m not so sure about that. I was using a Ping G410 SW for the majority of my pitching and getting near the pin almost every time, distance control really good. Anyway, I decided to swap it for an RTX4 54 MID which is nowhere near as easy for me to gauge. So, I’m selling that and getting a CBX2. Had a CBX before the G410 and that was good too. Night and day difference on forgiveness.

    I say that as an average golfer who uses Cavity Backs, for reference I shot 7 over today, so not crap, but not great either.

    Posted:
    Driver: Ping G400 10.5 Reg Ping Alta 44.5”
    Hybrids: Titleist TS3 17* Stiff HZRDUS Smoke & TS2 21* Hybrid Regular Tensei Blue
    Irons: Ping G410 5-PW (#5 at power spec loft)
    Wedges: Vokey SM8 50F, 54D & 58M, Callaway MD5 Jaws 60W Low and Mack Daddy 4 64S
    Putters: Bettinardi Studio Stock #3 (Jumbo Lamkin), Bettinardi Studio Stock #28 Slotback (Winn Dri-Tac), Piretti Matera Elite (Piretti Fat Grip), Piretti Cottonwood II (Piretti Fat Grip).
  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers  703WRX Points: 393Handicap: 14.5Posts: 703 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #20

    On -, @Joelsim said:

    On -, @arbeck said:

    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    I’m not so sure about that. I was using a Ping G410 SW for the majority of my pitching and getting near the pin almost every time, distance control really good. Anyway, I decided to swap it for an RTX4 54 MID which is nowhere near as easy for me to gauge. So, I’m selling that and getting a CBX2. Had a CBX before the G410 and that was good too. Night and day difference on forgiveness.

    I say that as an average golfer who uses Cavity Backs, for reference I shot 7 over today, so not crap, but not great either.

    I would guess the extra bounce and wider sole of the Ping are making more of a difference than the cavity.

    Posted:
    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Ping G410 4H
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
  • JoelsimJoelsim Members  1529WRX Points: 565Handicap: 12Posts: 1,529 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #21

    On -, @arbeck said:

    On -, @Joelsim said:

    On -, @arbeck said:

    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    I’m not so sure about that. I was using a Ping G410 SW for the majority of my pitching and getting near the pin almost every time, distance control really good. Anyway, I decided to swap it for an RTX4 54 MID which is nowhere near as easy for me to gauge. So, I’m selling that and getting a CBX2. Had a CBX before the G410 and that was good too. Night and day difference on forgiveness.

    I say that as an average golfer who uses Cavity Backs, for reference I shot 7 over today, so not crap, but not great either.

    I would guess the extra bounce and wider sole of the Ping are making more of a difference than the cavity.

    For sure the sole will help, but I’m pretty sure the CB will also stabilise slight mishits.

    Posted:
    Driver: Ping G400 10.5 Reg Ping Alta 44.5”
    Hybrids: Titleist TS3 17* Stiff HZRDUS Smoke & TS2 21* Hybrid Regular Tensei Blue
    Irons: Ping G410 5-PW (#5 at power spec loft)
    Wedges: Vokey SM8 50F, 54D & 58M, Callaway MD5 Jaws 60W Low and Mack Daddy 4 64S
    Putters: Bettinardi Studio Stock #3 (Jumbo Lamkin), Bettinardi Studio Stock #28 Slotback (Winn Dri-Tac), Piretti Matera Elite (Piretti Fat Grip), Piretti Cottonwood II (Piretti Fat Grip).
  • arbeckarbeck SeattleMembers  703WRX Points: 393Handicap: 14.5Posts: 703 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #22

    On -, @Joelsim said:

    On -, @arbeck said:

    On -, @Joelsim said:

    On -, @arbeck said:

    Once you get past 40* of loft or so, it's the loft that the biggest factor in what the club does according the Chris Voshall (and I'd trust him to know). Hot faces, cavities, and the like can help on the margin. But the difference between a club with those things and without isn't very big. The sole and turf interaction is going to have much more of an effect than the cavity.

    I’m not so sure about that. I was using a Ping G410 SW for the majority of my pitching and getting near the pin almost every time, distance control really good. Anyway, I decided to swap it for an RTX4 54 MID which is nowhere near as easy for me to gauge. So, I’m selling that and getting a CBX2. Had a CBX before the G410 and that was good too. Night and day difference on forgiveness.

    I say that as an average golfer who uses Cavity Backs, for reference I shot 7 over today, so not crap, but not great either.

    I would guess the extra bounce and wider sole of the Ping are making more of a difference than the cavity.

    For sure the sole will help, but I’m pretty sure the CB will also stabilise slight mishits.

    Sure, but once you have that much loft involved mishits don't twist the club face all that much and you don't lose much ball speed by not hitting the center of the club (the COG of a wedge often isn't in the center of the clubface anyway). Every little bit helps, but the amount you can help someone at more than 40* is minimal. Sole design becomes the much more important thing for help.

    Posted:
    Ping Traverse
    King Cobra F7 10.5* w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Blue 60 set at 9.5*
    TEE E8 4W, 7W
    Ping G410 4H
    Mizuno JPX-900 Hot Metal 5-SW w/ Veylix Alpina 873
    TEE CB PROs 60*
    Scotty Cameron Squareback
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  • HeckleHeckle Members  133WRX Points: 26Posts: 133 Fairways
    Joined:  #23

    Go with the mizunos...

    Posted:
  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, CanadaMembers  1708WRX Points: 405Posts: 1,708 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #24

    On -, @balls_deep said:

    On -, @dciccoritti said:

    On -, @harlequine said:

    I think the CBX Wedges work because of the bigger sole, not the fact it has a cavity.

    ^^^This.

    We agree for once! At this loft the cavity does nothing.

    "Cavity back wedges for cavity back golfers" :D

    I disagree. Although most look at CB's in terms of forgiveness, I do not. I look at CB's in terms of optimizing ball flight and turf interaction through weight distribution. Although I'm not personally sure what a wide sole wedge truly does and for what kind of swing, I do know that there are Tour players that play a wide sole in their 56 to 60. And I do know that a higher toe can raise CG and lower ball flight. Club designs and attributes are very important in terms of optimization.

    And let's not forget, wedge bounces these days are 'effective' and not 'actual'. So many might be surprised and how much bounce a 'low bounce' wedge has and how little bounce a 'mid to high bounce' wedge really has. The old Cleveland Smart Sole wedge with the super wide sole had only 6 degrees of actual bounce if memory serves. And the original Glide TS wedge has 23 degrees of actual bounce. Up to the individual to look at which designs works for their swing and optimizes their ball flight.

    As for the OP, I played the original Glide wedges and thought they were exceptional for full shots. Only wedge I ever played that looked like an iron for a full shot and looked like a wedge for partial and green side shots. Bit of a chameleon that wedge :-)

    Posted:
    • Titleist TS2
    • Titleist 716 MB 5-PW
    • Cleveland RTX 4 52 MID | 56 FULL | 60 XLOW
    • Special Select Newport 2
    • ProV1x
  • SUITSSUITS Members  1075WRX Points: 103Posts: 1,075 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #25

    The ping glide series is very forgiving with lots of options. Very pleasing size and shape as well

    Posted:
  • agolf1agolf1 Members  2066WRX Points: 1,242Posts: 2,066 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #26

    If you are playing GI/SGI irons, just playing the set wedges is another option. I play the G25 UW and SW - the UW is a no-brainer for me as it's a full swing club, and I like the consistent look/feel of the SW on non-greenside shots (pitches, partial swings, full swings). I've usually used some type of Eye 2 LW, which I guess is also a cavity. But as other's have said I think there are other attributes besides the cavity itself that is making the wedge attractive.

    I've also played with forged CB irons / Cleveland 588 (or 485s) as well. Each style has it's own pros/cons and as long as you know what they are I think it is fine.

    Posted:
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • dciccorittidciccoritti An inch an hour, 2 feet a day Toronto, CanadaMembers  1708WRX Points: 405Posts: 1,708 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #27

    On -, @agolf1 said:

    If you are playing GI/SGI irons, just playing the set wedges is another option. I play the G25 UW and SW - the UW is a no-brainer for me as it's a full swing club...

    Completely agree with this. When I played the G30, I had the UW, SW and LW for full shots only and they were excellent for that.

    Posted:
    • Titleist TS2
    • Titleist 716 MB 5-PW
    • Cleveland RTX 4 52 MID | 56 FULL | 60 XLOW
    • Special Select Newport 2
    • ProV1x

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