Should Cameron Champ get away from Sean Foley?

Interesting discussion on Golf Channel this morning about how Cameron Champ fell off a cliff after a good start last year. His driving accuracy is terrible, his approach game and chipping are bad. Foley was quoted as saying that because Champ swings so hard, he can't have a soft touch with wedges. Sounds crazy. And then Champ experienced back problems last year (similar to quite a few players who work with Foley). Is Sean Foley ruining this kid?

Foley is a joke. Only way a Foley pupil succeeds is if they succeed in spite of his pathetic teaching principles, not because of them.

Cam Champ is a ridiculous talent, if he isn't winning or being competitive w/ his distance and the statistical proof that distance essentially trumps all for scoring average, it's due to a huge hole in his game.

If I were Cam Champ I'd steer clear and call Claude Harmon, who has seemingly maximized the talent and results for several big hitters...

how long has champ worked with foley?

When did Champ start working with Foley? Before he was good, or after? I really don't know.

> @JD3 said:

> how long has champ worked with foley?

Since he was 15 years old.

Yes.

Lol, Sean knows what he is doing. Cameron is good but he is alot of hype. He wasnt statistically good either when we was doing well besides driving it far and straightish, he was avg at everthing else. Dustin, Tiger, Koepka, all figured out how to play distance wedges. Why cant he?

I think he only won one college event while he was at A&M, it's not like he was a world beater that suddenly fell off.

It's hard to totally blame Foley, swinging 130MPH will wear on the body. The entire game now is redline it and make as much money as fast as possible, if something breaks, hey at least you're rich.

I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> @Bomber_11 said:

> Foley is a joke. Only way a Foley pupil succeeds is if they succeed in spite of his pathetic teaching principles, not because of them.

>

> Cam Champ is a ridiculous talent, if he isn't winning or being competitive w/ his distance and the statistical proof that distance essentially trumps all for scoring average, **it's due to a huge hole in his game.**

>

> If I were Cam Champ I'd steer clear and call Claude Harmon, who has seemingly maximized the talent and results for several big hitters...

well, apparently, there IS a huge hole in his game ... it consists of iron play, short game, short iron control & putting ...

> @QuigleyDU said:

> I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

He does seem to have quite a number of clients that develop back problems.

> @LICC said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

>

> He does seem to have quite a number of clients that develop back problems.

And a lot that don't. He is a golf coach, bad backs are a dime a dozen with golfers. Thats like saying a tire repair store has a lot of cars with tires that need to be replaced.

Please do not misunderstand, I am not saying he is a good coach. I am just wondering out loud if the negativity is truly earned. It may be, I honestly do know. All evidence seems to me to be anecdotal.

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> >

> > He does seem to have quite a number of clients that develop back problems.

>

> And a lot that don't. He is a golf coach, bad backs are a dime a dozen with golfers. Thats like saying a tire repair store has a lot of cars with tires that need to be replaced.

>

> Please do not misunderstand, I am not saying he is a good coach. I am just wondering out loud if the negativity is truly earned. It may be, I honestly do know. All evidence seems to me to be anecdotal.

It seems like he has more than others. Which was implicit in my statement.

> @tiderider said:

> > @Bomber_11 said:

> > Foley is a joke. Only way a Foley pupil succeeds is if they succeed in spite of his pathetic teaching principles, not because of them.

> >

> > Cam Champ is a ridiculous talent, if he isn't winning or being competitive w/ his distance and the statistical proof that distance essentially trumps all for scoring average, **it's due to a huge hole in his game.**

> >

> > If I were Cam Champ I'd steer clear and call Claude Harmon, who has seemingly maximized the talent and results for several big hitters...

>

> well, apparently, there IS a huge hole in his game ... it consists of iron play, short game, short iron control & putting ...

Do you think the issue is that Champ just doesn't have the talent? Or would a different coach make a big difference?

> @LICC said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

> > >

> > > He does seem to have quite a number of clients that develop back problems.

> >

> > And a lot that don't. He is a golf coach, bad backs are a dime a dozen with golfers. Thats like saying a tire repair store has a lot of cars with tires that need to be replaced.

> >

> > Please do not misunderstand, I am not saying he is a good coach. I am just wondering out loud if the negativity is truly earned. It may be, I honestly do know. All evidence seems to me to be anecdotal.

>

> It seems like he has more than others. Which was implicit in my statement.

Again, anecdotal evidence, it "seems". No quantifiable number or factual statistics. You may be correct. I am just not sure. I see a lot of bad backs on tour. The only coach I am aware of where there was actual research done to show it injured backs was Jim Mclean and the X factor.

He's been on tour for a minute. Give the kid some time. As coaches I'd like to see him go to whoever DJ worked with to dial in wedges.

> @tiderider said:

> > @Bomber_11 said:

> > Foley is a joke. Only way a Foley pupil succeeds is if they succeed in spite of his pathetic teaching principles, not because of them.

> >

> > Cam Champ is a ridiculous talent, if he isn't winning or being competitive w/ his distance and the statistical proof that distance essentially trumps all for scoring average, **it's due to a huge hole in his game.**

> >

> > If I were Cam Champ I'd steer clear and call Claude Harmon, who has seemingly maximized the talent and results for several big hitters...

>

> well, apparently, there IS a huge hole in his game ... it consists of iron play, short game, short iron control & putting ...

Didn’t he make it to the bmw championship this year? Thought I remembered seeing him balls on the range and was impressed

I seem to remember when this young kid came on tour (around 1997) knocking it past everyone but constantly air mailing the greens with his wedges and hitting it pin high only forty feet from the hole. The announcer at the time kept saying "man this kid's going to be a great player once he develop an arm swing with his wedges.....every tournament the announcer would say the same thing until that kid shortly developed that swing....That announcer was Ken Verturi and that kid was Tiger Woods.

Foley hate aside. If any coach ever tells you “ you can’t “ do something when you’re at that talent level. Tell him which orifice to kiss and walk away at that very moment. Can’t is a seed of cancer. And anyone is vulnerable to its affects.

It’s shocking to me that such words would come from a coaches mouth.

> @QuigleyDU said:

> I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

> @Titleist99 said:

> I seem to remember when this young kid came on tour (around 1997) knocking it past everyone but constantly air mailing the greens with his wedges and hitting it pin high only forty feet from the hole. The announcer at the time kept saying "man this kid's going to be a great player once he develop an arm swing with his wedges.....every tournament the announcer would say the same thing until that kid shortly developed that swing....That announcer was Ken Verturi and that kid was Tiger Woods.

In Tiger's first seven tournaments as a professional in 1996, he finished top-11 in six of them, top-5 in five, top-3 in four, and finished 1st twice. In his first three tournaments in 1997, he finished 1st in one and 2nd in another. That is not really a good comparison to Cameron Champ.

Like most here I think Champ would be better off with someone other than Foley. I've watched Foley's dvd, seen a handful of his videos, and read a handful of his articles. I've yet to see anything of decent quality come from his instructional opinion. Not a fan of either Como (ruined Immelman) nor Butch's son Claude Harmon III (ruined Els) either.

Champ was already long before Foley poached Champ from his previous instructor (Kip Putersburg?). I'm not sure who would be a good fit for Champ, but I do believe a change would be in his best interest.

the bad wrap with Foley was him "telling" Tiger how to swing the golf club. Tiger should of been telling him how to and Foley being a second pair of eyes.

It took Dustin Johnson YEARS to get even halfway decent with a wedge in his hand. When he did, he ascended to the top of the world rankings quickly.

It seems like the great majority of this generation of pro's have been taught nothing but distance, distance, distance since their youth. Its all they know...tee ball up high, swing hard, hit ball far. Very few of these young players play off of feel anymore. Very little imagination. Short games that suck. No clue what to do on the greens.

This game is still, at its core, a wedge and putter game. No matter what skill level you are. Yeah, I understand the "analysis" that says long distance correlates to good scoring average more than anything else, but the fact remains is that even with bombing it on every hole past your playing partner, over half of your shots in any given round of golf are made with some sort of wedge and your putter. He's 161st in SG approach to green, 188th in SG around the green, and 123rd in SG putting. That's simply not good enough to be a consistent factor on tour. And that stuff only gets better with the individual putting in the time to practice, no matter who your teacher is.

> @LICC said:

> > @JD3 said:

> > how long has champ worked with foley?

>

> Since he was 15 years old.

If this is true, hard to see how Foley is ruining him. Not saying he maybe shouldn't look elsewhere but he was with Foley when he was doing really well last year..

Yes if he would like to have a working back still at age 30.

> @Redjeep83 said:

> the bad wrap with Foley was him "telling" Tiger how to swing the golf club. Tiger should of been telling him how to and Foley being a second pair of eyes.

its was way more than that. he told him to crowd the ball and get flatter to eliminate the left miss. it wrecked every part of his game. guys a snake oil salesman. ive seen him talk up close lots of 5$ words with no substance

Another over hyped future star fell flat? Say it isn't so...lol. Easier to just blame the teacher I guess.

> @Ferguson said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > I don't know as I am not super familiar with what Foley teach's, but I feel do feel he gets a bad rap that may be undeserved.

>

> I think the bad rap comes from a caustic blend of off-the-shelf golf clothes mixed with high fashion glasses, an individualistic coiffure and that certain polarizing aura of neoteric swagger.

And a stoned Yoda delivery.