UK Trip - September 2019

Some ramblings and observations from an 11 course - 12 round trip to England and Wales in mid-September... I may need to tidy it up some after this initial post, as this new editor isn't great... and yes indeed the images are effed up, ugh.

There have been 4 courses that I've not been able to sync up their availability with my trip dates to this point, so for kicks I thought if I could get two of them in the same week in Sept I'd go and as things turned out I managed all 4 over 3 consecutive days. So with Sunningdale Old/New, Rye, and Brancaster sorted, I went about filling out a golf trip and off I went!

Fantastic weather was the trend of the trip, with only a spitty start at Harlech and 3 holes of light rain on Sunny New reminding me I was in the UK.

Otherwise I might as well have been in Norcal, as every other round had no threat of rain, which made it easier to keep the bag light for shouldering or pushing around the course.

Wales provided the two pro examples of the travelling single: at Aberdovey I was invited to fill out a fourball and had a great time and we took the match to 18 before losing 1 up. The next morning at Harlech with a 9am teetime and thanks to courtesy golfers I played through 5 groups on my way to a 2hr 25min round.The counter to that was at Sunningdale, which was the most (only) touristy course of the trip, where going out as a single on a full course doesn't make for a great experience. But joining up with a threesome 1/2 way through sure did help.

That aside, really the only 'downside', was yet another fortnight in a Vauxhall Mokka. With 4 weeks this year in one, I can comfortably say I will get something else next time! But it did work a charm in London and in some of the small Welsh villages.

The 11 courses on this trip fall into the following regions and consisted of 5 links courses and 6 heathland courses:

Wales/West Midlands - Aberdovey, Harlech, Enville

Southeast - Liphook, Sunningdale Old/New, Hindhead, Rye

Norfolk/Suffolk - Hunstanton, Brancaster, Mildenhall

If you wanted a good sample of links and heathland courses, you could do worse than play these, barring a links with more big dunes like Royal Aberdeen or Pennard.

That said I wouldn't suggest someone should take 9 days and fit these in - if you've not been before there'd be others to see in certain spots - but it was easily doable and let me visit friends and old haunts.

Flickr album link:

**Liphook - Yet more quality Surrey golf**

- Proper bouncy fairways, clingy heather, with a mix of prosaic and waaavey greens.

- the course gets off to an OK-ish par three start, before quickly ratcheting up the interest with the beautifully cambered par 4 second, which is the first example of how the terrain is used very well at Liphook, with holes naturally laid out as they were found

- most holes are gently to boldly up or down a hill, adding and subtracting a 1/2 club here or giving you some extra roll out off the tee

**Enville Highgate - While in the neighbourhood**

- Heathy first 7 and last 2, with woodland holes through the pines in between, that fit into my work/travel schedule

- Quality track no doubt, and with 36 holes and good practice facilities it must serve members/locals well, but lacks that spark an overseas golfer maybe looking for, which can be found in hillier golfing options to the West

- Par 5s a good chance to score, with some stout par 4s and long par 3s to make up the scoring difference.

**Aberdovey - To the links!**

- An honest links, with a few ups, overs, and arounds in a small piece of dunes sandwiched between the beach and the rail near the start and end of the round, but otherwise largely flat and laid out in front of you.

- Choose your line to cover/avoid a bunker or two, judge the wind and the release on your approach and maybe a bunch of pars and a few birdies will be the result.

- Joined 3 members to fill out their foursome and have a very enjoyable match, that made it all the way to 18... before losing, sorry Brian!- Simply a fun round of golf, that pairs with Royal St. David's very well.

**Royal St. David's (Harlech) - To the links again!**

- more grownup version of Aberdovey

- the few holes in the dunes nearer the end of the round were awesome, inspiring stuff that would be at home on any links, while the flatter ones still make for fun golf, especially with the rippling nature of the terrain, with the back nine overall being top notch golf

- four very good and varied par 3s

- quite a few longer par 4s against a par 69 meaning the yardage is more than it seems

**Sunningdale Old - The Turner of English courses**

- after Dornoch earlier in the year, I was wondering if Sunningdale could live up to the hype... yes, most definitely yes... no really, yes, absolutely yes.

- maybe the finest inland course I've played. Given a single round would I pick it over St. Georges Hill or West Sussex? Now that would be a tough call.

- so many archetypal holes and views of heathland golf, with shot values to match

- fantastic use of the land with numerous elevation changes, playing down and up to fairways, cresting hills to earn a view of the green, opportunities to work the ball both ways

- when I return I would definitely do so with a mate/mates though, as unlike Scottish tourist courses they don't build out foursomes, which made the front nine a bit stop/start as a single, until joining up with the asst pro and a couple others at the half-way house

**Sunningdale New - The Lowry of English courses**

- starker, bolder challenge when compared to the Old course

- heather, heather, and more heather... and then some more heather

- like the old, hilly in places with the occassional blind shot, with fairways bending left and right

- it would take a pair of the Bandon courses to better it amongst 36 hole days you can have at the same property; from those I've played

**Rye Old - 10 quid jacket from charity shop purchased and we're good to go!**

- And a magic blazer it was, as twice I had staff/members apologize for mistaking me as one of their own, ha

- to the course... par 5s are overrated, heck par is overrated, just hit shots, and hit them all you will at this simply brilliant course

- playing 'beneath' the dunes for the first 3 keeps you sheltered and lets you warm up before the exacting 4th and 5th

- playing along, over, and off of the dune ridges makes for thrilling stuff and when not on a ridge you are playing over crumpled and rippling linksland

**Hunstanton - Just a top notch links course**

- is it OK to simply be a very good golf course? There are no weather forecasting goats, no stone walls to navigate, and no need to hit a draw over the beach, but what is here after a simple start is quality hole after quality hole.

- there are dunes in play and there is movement to the holes, but it's not as dramatic as somewhere like Royal St. Georges or Balgownie, yet with hidden greens and other pulpit greens along dune tops, there is always something interesting to play towards

- the finishing three hole stretch is awesome; with the par 3 16th cloistered amongst a ring of bunkers, the par 4 17th which doglegs along a ridge with a green that cannot be missed to the right, and finally the par 4 18th, with a raised green right in front of the clubhouse. It's rousing stuff.

- paired with Brancaster, they are worth a trip on their own and with all the other options available on the way up or in the area, Norfolk is well worth a golf trip.

**Royal West Norfolk (Brancaster) - Out old-schooling Rye**

- like Rye, this is a club that goes about things at its own pace and when I teed off in the afternoon, it was me, maintenance staff, and maybe a dozen golfers on the course

- the marsh holes at 8 & 9 are as advertised, where it's a question of how much to bite off again and again, till safely on the putting surface

- traditional out and in layout, where the day's wind direction and strength will definitely have a say in how the scoring goes, although on the day it was a mere zephyr

- after a subdued start getting away from the clubhouse and crisscrossing a couple fairways, the game is on starting at the excellent dogleg third and continues for most of the rest of the front side. 8 & 9 get a lot of duly deserved plaudits, but the 3rd is just as good.

- twelve through sixteen, with a run of par fours including a punchbowl green, short sharp dogleg, an obscured approach alongside the par 3 fourth, before being broken up with a par three, with yet another steeper-faced cavernous bunker to avoid, finishes with a short four, with a green sitting on top a dune

- after the round the wood paneled clubhouse is a treat to sit in and have a 1/2 pint and reflect on an enjoyable round on a captivating course

**Royal Worlington & Newmarket - Blasphemous view of the Sacred Nine?**

- the approach shot on 4 and the tee shot on 5 are a fun little stretch, but unfortunately they were watering the greens the morning I was there, which did impact their play, which is the key feature of the course. I was going to play 27-36 holes, but with the greens as they were 18 was enough

- could have played the course with 5 clubs (D, 21H, 7, PW, Putter) + SW for missed greens, especially 2-8 which only requires a D, 21H, and 7I for all tee shots and approaches, that you then play them all again 60-70mins later isn't the best

- it can play firm and has a subtle links look to it in spots, not dissimilar to something you might see at Carnoustie or Portmarnock and there are a handful are intricate greens, but I definitely fall on the James Finegan side of the ledger as compared to the Doak side

- Club secretary was fantastic and the feel of the place is great, with it's quaint clubhouse (but brand new locker rooms!) and the way the rough and bunkers accent the fairways. I'll need to return again when hopefully the greens are running fast and true

**Hindhead - Yet more quality Surrey golf**

- maybe the firmest and fastest heathland course I've ever played on the day, with a bit of wind and down downhill sloping holes it made for silly long drives/short approaches- played very linksy, but with pacey greens that were the best conditioned on the trip, ending up above the hole could lead to very delicate putts

- front nine plays along snaking fairways through deep and steep valleys, while the back nine plays along more traditional heathland terrain

- many cracking holes through the valleys and up on the plateau, but would have been nice if they could have been divvied up between the nines

- good variety of long and strong par 4s like, with driveable and/or pitch and putt 4s, with a pair of excellent mid-range par 3s at 3 and 10 thrown in the mix

- Liphook shades it, and Blackmoor is ever so slightly trailing, but that's a trio of courses around Haselmere Surrey that is well worth a night or two's stay and you can visit the Sculpture Park and Devil's Punchbowl while in the neighbourhood too

be a good chap and have a full itinerary and report on our desk at 2200 tomorrow, GMT ... please include an identification with each picture in the flickr list ...

seriousness aside, one section of the pics looks quite hilly, if not outright mountainous ... where's that? ... think it's with the train tracks ... not sure ...

> @tiderider said:

> be a good chap and have a full itinerary and report on our desk at 2200 tomorrow, GMT ... please include an identification with each picture in the flickr list ...

>

> seriousness aside, one section of the pics looks quite hilly, if not outright mountainous ... where's that? ... think it's with the train tracks ... not sure ...

Ha! TBF, if you click on any of the golf pics, I did name the course in the description, but without clicking on them all you'll see is the timestamp.

That pic is actually from a car park on the road above Aberdovey GC, to show the dunes on the far side, with the holes between them and the railway.

I played Liphook the previous weekend, while hitting up Guildford beer festival and then a week at the office, so not on the 'official' golfing itinerary.

* Thurs: Stay in Worcester - excellent pub town, some really good spots with plenty of real ale and good low key vibes

* Fri: Play Enville | Stay Barmouth - small seaside town, restaurants and pubs busy, ended up at the chippy. Kington, Welshpool, Lllllllllllllanarod Wells would be more interesting golfing choices, but this fit my sched.

* Sat: Play Aberdovey | Stay Barmouth - Coop open early for Costa coffee machine. Could very easily take the train down the coast as it's right in town and Aberdovey station is at the golf club

* Sun: Play Harlech | Stay Ripley, Surrey - Snowdonia is fantastic could easily do a non-golf trip there. Ripley well situated village, handful of pubs, curry house, grocery store, bakery, job done.

* Mon: Play Sunningdale x 2 | Stay Ripley - Ripley curry house for Chicken Bhuna and a Cobra and then pub for a proper pint, thanks very much.

* Tues: Play Rye | Stay Old Hunstanton - Flying visit to Rye for golf and lunch, then swap Sussex coast for Norfolk coast.

* Weds: Play Hunstanton & Brancaster | Stay Old Hunstanton - Awesome 36 hole day, with lunch on the beach and good pub dinner

* Thurs: Play Mildenhall | Stay St. Albans - Where I used to live, so out to the regular pubs and the happy warm fuzzy feeling that goes with it.

* Fri: London | Stay St. Albans - Touristy non golf day in city and back to Snorbans for meal and pints.

* Sat: Play Hindhead x 2 | Gatwick hotel - Super fun final day of golf joining up with a cool Italian chap and then pack up, a final cask ale, MOTD, and sleep.

* Sun: Fly, fly, fly away

;-)

Interesting selection of courses. For sure Enville is the red head step child of tour. Perhaps Beau Desert would have been the course to see in the general area, next time...

I am a much bigger fan of the Sacred 9 and much less impressed by Hindhead than you. I find the successive valley holes rather repetitive, although the 3rd is brilliant.

You should have seen some work happening at Liphook, big changes on the horizon.

Like you, I am very large on Hunstanton and I find the club very friendly. There is a cool mix of variety which impresses me and I think it every bit the measure of Brancaster.

I am back up to Harlech in a few weeks twinned with Nefyn. Hopefully the appalling weather of late ceases!

Thanks for the report.

Ciao

Awesome report and great pics! Really enjoyed the read.

> @"El Gringo" said:

> Interesting selection of courses. For sure Enville is the red head step child of tour. Perhaps Beau Desert would have been the course to see in the general area, next time...

>

> I am a much bigger fan of the Sacred 9 and much less impressed by Hindhead than you. I find the successive valley holes rather repetitive, although the 3rd is brilliant.

>

> You should have seen some work happening at Liphook, big changes on the horizon.

>

> Like you, I am very large on Hunstanton and I find the club very friendly. There is a cool mix of variety which impresses me and I think it every bit the measure of Brancaster.

>

> I am back up to Harlech in a few weeks twinned with Nefyn. Hopefully the appalling weather of late ceases!

>

> Thanks for the report.

>

> Ciao

I did want to get to Kington, but unfortunately they had something on that day and when I was coming back from Wales, it was getting to late to hit it on the return.

Ya TBH, that's why I want to return to Mildenhall - the secretary was very apologetic about the work they were doing on the greens and that it's not a true experience without them running and maybe with a different breeze it'd mix the club selection up more. I did get a 2 on 5 the first time through and then took a 5 the second time, so had a good mix there.

Can understand that POV of Hindhead, it would be nice if they could split the valley and plateau holes up.

Yes exactly on Liphook. Replacement for 14 and some other work being carried out down in the far corner. I can see how that crossing under the rail bridge - especially for older slower golfers - isn't the best.

Always jealous of those who can simply get in the car and drive out to the courses, maybe with county card in hand, instead of needing an 8hr flight first :-) If Harlech had another 3 or 4 holes in those dunes, that'd be something!

> @duffer987 said:

> > @"El Gringo" said:

> > Interesting selection of courses. For sure Enville is the red head step child of tour. Perhaps Beau Desert would have been the course to see in the general area, next time...

> >

> > I am a much bigger fan of the Sacred 9 and much less impressed by Hindhead than you. I find the successive valley holes rather repetitive, although the 3rd is brilliant.

> >

> > You should have seen some work happening at Liphook, big changes on the horizon.

> >

> > Like you, I am very large on Hunstanton and I find the club very friendly. There is a cool mix of variety which impresses me and I think it every bit the measure of Brancaster.

> >

> > I am back up to Harlech in a few weeks twinned with Nefyn. Hopefully the appalling weather of late ceases!

> >

> > Thanks for the report.

> >

> > Ciao

>

> I did want to get to Kington, but unfortunately they had something on that day and when I was coming back from Wales, it was getting to late to hit it on the return.

> Ya TBH, that's why I want to return to Mildenhall - the secretary was very apologetic about the work they were doing on the greens and that it's not a true experience without them running and maybe with a different breeze it'd mix the club selection up more. I did get a 2 on 5 the first time through and then took a 5 the second time, so had a good mix there.

> Can understand that POV of Hindhead, it would be nice if they could split the valley and plateau holes up.

> Yes exactly on Liphook. Replacement for 14 and some other work being carried out down in the far corner. I can see how that crossing under the rail bridge - especially for older slower golfers - isn't the best.

> Always jealous of those who can simply get in the car and drive out to the courses, maybe with county card in hand, instead of needing an 8hr flight first :-) If Harlech had another 3 or 4 holes in those dunes, that'd be something!

Agreed re: Harlech and the dunes. Reminds me a bit of how Hillside winds up to the back 9, then you're in for a treat. How did you find the blind par 3? It was the first time I'd ever played one, found it quite bizarre. I hit the green though!

Great write up and thoroughly enjoyed looking at your photos.

Edit: I can jump in the car to Harlech but still takes 3 hours to drive!

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> Awesome report and great pics! Really enjoyed the read.

Thanks Hawk... If I can get you playing South of the border at some point, it will all be worth it ;-)

> @jonnymc44 said:

> > @duffer987 said:

> > > @"El Gringo" said:

> > > Interesting selection of courses. For sure Enville is the red head step child of tour. Perhaps Beau Desert would have been the course to see in the general area, next time...

> > >

> > > I am a much bigger fan of the Sacred 9 and much less impressed by Hindhead than you. I find the successive valley holes rather repetitive, although the 3rd is brilliant.

> > >

> > > You should have seen some work happening at Liphook, big changes on the horizon.

> > >

> > > Like you, I am very large on Hunstanton and I find the club very friendly. There is a cool mix of variety which impresses me and I think it every bit the measure of Brancaster.

> > >

> > > I am back up to Harlech in a few weeks twinned with Nefyn. Hopefully the appalling weather of late ceases!

> > >

> > > Thanks for the report.

> > >

> > > Ciao

> >

> > I did want to get to Kington, but unfortunately they had something on that day and when I was coming back from Wales, it was getting to late to hit it on the return.

> > Ya TBH, that's why I want to return to Mildenhall - the secretary was very apologetic about the work they were doing on the greens and that it's not a true experience without them running and maybe with a different breeze it'd mix the club selection up more. I did get a 2 on 5 the first time through and then took a 5 the second time, so had a good mix there.

> > Can understand that POV of Hindhead, it would be nice if they could split the valley and plateau holes up.

> > Yes exactly on Liphook. Replacement for 14 and some other work being carried out down in the far corner. I can see how that crossing under the rail bridge - especially for older slower golfers - isn't the best.

> > Always jealous of those who can simply get in the car and drive out to the courses, maybe with county card in hand, instead of needing an 8hr flight first :-) If Harlech had another 3 or 4 holes in those dunes, that'd be something!

>

> Agreed re: Harlech and the dunes. Reminds me a bit of how Hillside winds up to the back 9, then you're in for a treat. How did you find the blind par 3? It was the first time I'd ever played one, found it quite bizarre. I hit the green though!

> Great write up and thoroughly enjoyed looking at your photos.

> Edit: I can jump in the car to Harlech but still takes 3 hours to drive!

Obscuring sand dunes aside, it's a fair hole that I hybridded front left, there's just enough of a hint/look at where you should go and the mounding around it is more gathering that repelling.

Himalayas at Prestwick... now that is a blind hole!

Darn you and your easy drive to Snowdonia ;-)

You know I actually liked the derelict buildings - I'm sure the locals see an eyesore - but with the low clouds and having recently watched Chernobyl, it worked on the day. I also didn't realise Harlech claims home to the steepest town road, until I parked on it and then drove down it, ha.

> @duffer987 said:

> > @"El Gringo" said:

> > Interesting selection of courses. For sure Enville is the red head step child of tour. Perhaps Beau Desert would have been the course to see in the general area, next time...

> >

> > I am a much bigger fan of the Sacred 9 and much less impressed by Hindhead than you. I find the successive valley holes rather repetitive, although the 3rd is brilliant.

> >

> > You should have seen some work happening at Liphook, big changes on the horizon.

> >

> > Like you, I am very large on Hunstanton and I find the club very friendly. There is a cool mix of variety which impresses me and I think it every bit the measure of Brancaster.

> >

> > I am back up to Harlech in a few weeks twinned with Nefyn. Hopefully the appalling weather of late ceases!

> >

> > Thanks for the report.

> >

> > Ciao

>

> I did want to get to Kington, but unfortunately they had something on that day and when I was coming back from Wales, it was getting to late to hit it on the return.

> Ya TBH, that's why I want to return to Mildenhall - the secretary was very apologetic about the work they were doing on the greens and that it's not a true experience without them running and maybe with a different breeze it'd mix the club selection up more. I did get a 2 on 5 the first time through and then took a 5 the second time, so had a good mix there.

> Can understand that POV of Hindhead, it would be nice if they could split the valley and plateau holes up.

> Yes exactly on Liphook. Replacement for 14 and some other work being carried out down in the far corner. I can see how that crossing under the rail bridge - especially for older slower golfers - isn't the best.

> Always jealous of those who can simply get in the car and drive out to the courses, maybe with county card in hand, instead of needing an 8hr flight first :-) If Harlech had another 3 or 4 holes in those dunes, that'd be something!

Yes, the County Card is a very good perk of club membership in England. I use it quite a bit...though the posh joints in the Home Counties don't wanna know :'(

RE Liphook changes are centred around a tunnel to eliminate the road crossing for 15. Changes beget changes. I think the course may come out better because the many short 4s of which none are really killer will be broken up a bit. Hopefully, the 7 and 9 aren't mucked up...two great holes.

Ciao

> @"El Gringo" said:

> > @duffer987 said:

> > > @"El Gringo" said:

> > > Interesting selection of courses. For sure Enville is the red head step child of tour. Perhaps Beau Desert would have been the course to see in the general area, next time...

> > >

> > > I am a much bigger fan of the Sacred 9 and much less impressed by Hindhead than you. I find the successive valley holes rather repetitive, although the 3rd is brilliant.

> > >

> > > You should have seen some work happening at Liphook, big changes on the horizon.

> > >

> > > Like you, I am very large on Hunstanton and I find the club very friendly. There is a cool mix of variety which impresses me and I think it every bit the measure of Brancaster.

> > >

> > > I am back up to Harlech in a few weeks twinned with Nefyn. Hopefully the appalling weather of late ceases!

> > >

> > > Thanks for the report.

> > >

> > > Ciao

> >

> > I did want to get to Kington, but unfortunately they had something on that day and when I was coming back from Wales, it was getting to late to hit it on the return.

> > Ya TBH, that's why I want to return to Mildenhall - the secretary was very apologetic about the work they were doing on the greens and that it's not a true experience without them running and maybe with a different breeze it'd mix the club selection up more. I did get a 2 on 5 the first time through and then took a 5 the second time, so had a good mix there.

> > Can understand that POV of Hindhead, it would be nice if they could split the valley and plateau holes up.

> > Yes exactly on Liphook. Replacement for 14 and some other work being carried out down in the far corner. I can see how that crossing under the rail bridge - especially for older slower golfers - isn't the best.

> > Always jealous of those who can simply get in the car and drive out to the courses, maybe with county card in hand, instead of needing an 8hr flight first :-) If Harlech had another 3 or 4 holes in those dunes, that'd be something!

>

> Yes, the County Card is a very good perk of club membership in England. I use it quite a bit...though the posh joints in the Home Counties don't wanna know :'(

>

> RE Liphook changes are centred around a tunnel to eliminate the road crossing for 15. Changes beget changes. I think the course may come out better because the many short 4s of which none are really killer will be broken up a bit. Hopefully, the 7 and 9 aren't mucked up...two great holes.

>

>

>

>

>

> Ciao

>

>

Agreed! That green on 7 is so cool. I caught up to and was stuck behind a comp and spend sometime putting around the 7th green lots of fun angles and slopes, while waiting for the 8th to clear. And yes the approach to nine over all that hummocky ground is just something you cannot manufacturer as such.

> @duffer987 said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > Awesome report and great pics! Really enjoyed the read.

>

> Thanks Hawk... If I can get you playing South of the border at some point, it will all be worth it ;-)

I've got a wife and two daughters who would love everything London (me too) so someday it's happening!

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @duffer987 said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > Awesome report and great pics! Really enjoyed the read.

> >

> > Thanks Hawk... If I can get you playing South of the border at some point, it will all be worth it ;-)

>

> I've got a wife and two daughters who would love everything London (me too) so someday it's happening!

That's the great thing with the Southeast!

It's very easy to find excellent golf, while letting those traveling companions who may want to spend time in London do their thing.

If I had known you were going to be playing down the road from me at Worlington I might have been able to help. I know the Pro there (he moved there this year from my club) and might have sorted you a deal and maybe even joined you for a round.

I live in Cambridgeshire and it has it's pro and cons reagrding golf.

The main con is the lack of any truly good courses in the near vicinity. Gog Magog and John O'Gaunt are good golf courses but very much big fish in a very very tiny pond.

The Pro is that it's not more than a two hour drive in any direction to some of Englands best golf courses.

was there anything particular you had to do to get a booking at rye?

The pro is a lovely chap. We had a bit of a natter before I teed off and he saw me off the first hole and apologized for being day and a bit late from seeing it in top shape, as they were sneaking in some maintenance.

That's it - you can pop up or across to the coast or do an easy overnighter anywhere in the Southeast for a 3 round weekend. Damn sight easier than us over here :-)

I sent them an email in the Spring, but they didn't have any availability, so when I looked again for Sept I just replied to the same thread and asked about a 3 day stretch and the secretary got back to me with two options.

Just my usual polite self + my GHIN card. And then of course the jacket, as you want to be able to have a nice ham and cheese sandwich and a pint after/before your round.

Edit: I see from other thread you are sorting out your rounds for next year. If you could swing Rye and then pop up to Deal that'd be an excellent double.

Deal has very favourable afternoon rates, both times I played it last two years I've done that and for sub-100 quid it's fantastic value, but I'm a huge fan of Deal regardless of fee.