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Macgregor JNP vs CB92 vs murifield 20th?

 3puttsRLife ·  
3puttsRLife3puttsRLife Members  109WRX Points: 136Posts: 109 Fairways
Joined:  edited Oct 9, 2019 in Classic Golf And Golfers #1

I'm looking to add to my collection and these are the 3 on my short list. Correct me if I'm wrong but all 3 of these forgings are from the pro82 forging? Looking for pros and cons for each of the irons. For me the cb92 wins in the looks department but I've heard they are incredibly demanding to hit even for a good ball striker which I like to think I am. Been playing blades for years. And wondering how the sole grinds vary from each model also. Thanks.

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  • No_Catchy_NicknameNo_Catchy_Nickname Kyushu,_JapanMembers  6316WRX Points: 1,573Handicap: mePosts: 6,316 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2

    On -, @3puttsRLife said:

    I'm looking to add to my collection and these are the 3 on my short list. Correct me if I'm wrong but all 3 of these forgings are from the pro82 forging? Looking for pros and cons for each of the irons. For me the cb92 wins in the looks department but I've heard they are incredibly demanding to hit even for a good ball striker which I like to think I am. Been playing blades for years. And wondering how the soul grinds vary from each model also. Thanks.

    Check this thread out for details of the forgings. Clay Long (posting as "stingingbee") gives quite a lot of information out.
    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/499240/blast-from-the-past-macgregor-muirfield-20th-vs-jnp/p2#entry4097855

    Not sure about the CB92 forging, but it seems that the JNP using the Pro-82 forgings, whereas the Muirfield 20ths were Pro-86, which were just remarked Pro-81 heads.

    I don't have a set of the JNPs, but I do have the CB92s and Muirfield 20ths. The 20ths are some of my favourite irons, whereas the CB92s I am not so fond of. The cavity back design seems to provide no extra forgiveness, so yes, I'd say they're demanding to hit.

    Posted:
    Driver: Ping G400 Tour 65S
    4w: TaylorMade R9 stock Fujikura Motore X flex
    7w TaylorMade V-steel, Quadra Fire Express RB 6SX
    Hybrid: RomaRo iBrid 23* Attas EZ 85S
    Irons (4i-PW): Mizuno MP4 Attas 115X 4-PW (+0.5")
    Wedges: Cleveland RTX4 Forged 52* and 58*, DGS400 (both at 35.5")
    Putter: Mac Jack Nicklaus Muirfield/Taylormade TPA XVIII/Wilson 8802

    Old stuff: Tons of persimmon and older irons. 
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  • deejaiddeejaid Members  920WRX Points: 783Posts: 920 Golden Tee
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    I’ve played CB-92’s on and off for the last 3 years or so and have probably done more research on these than many have. I’ve always liked the way they looked and wanted a set when they first came out but I was 16 and couldn’t afford them. They are very blade like and have the typical flat sole without much camber that Macgregor’s better players irons have had for years. Straight leading edge, blade sized head.

    As for how they compare to the Muirfields and the JNP, I believe the Muirfields were forged from the Pro 82 heads. The JNP was a new design in the late 80’s and was a bit larger so I don’t believe they were made from the Pro 82 head. As for the CB-92, I found this quote from Clay Long regarding its creation.

    “Jack actually played the JNP’s for several weeks after which he called and said he liked them but when he, “hit them fat, they didn’t go anywhere.” Translated, the blades were too long. So we cut cavities into the backs of the Pro-82’s(Muirfield forging) to make a short JNP for him. That later became the CB-92 forging. I left Macgregor in 1992 and one of my first projects for Nicklaus Golf was to machine the N1 back design into a set of Pro-82’s for Jack to play. In 2002 we made a new Personal Edition forging and again had to grind it down to Pro-82 size. To this day, he still plays a blade this size as far as I know.” -Clay Long

    If you look at the photo you can see the comparison of the production JNP and the custom JNP that became the CB-92.

    Personally, I don’t think the CB-92’s are hard to hit. I’m not the greatest ball-striker but have played with blade style or sized irons all my life so they aren’t a problem. I will say, I learned to play as a picker/sweeper like Jack so I don’t take big divots but pick it more off the turf. If you get steep, the CB-92’s will hurt you. The feel of the CB-92’s are incredible and are some of my favorite feeling irons.

    Posted:
    The bag...
    Louisville Smart persimmon driver
    Pedersen persimmon 3,5 woods
    Hogan PTx Pro 4-7
    Hogan Icon 8-PW
    Tour Edge Rally 54* wedge
    Callaway PM Grind 58* wedge
    Rife Legend Z putter
  • No_Catchy_NicknameNo_Catchy_Nickname Kyushu,_JapanMembers  6316WRX Points: 1,573Handicap: mePosts: 6,316 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @deejaid said:

    I’ve played CB-92’s on and off for the last 3 years or so and have probably done more research on these than many have. I’ve always liked the way they looked and wanted a set when they first came out but I was 16 and couldn’t afford them. They are very blade like and have the typical flat sole without much camber that Macgregor’s better players irons have had for years. Straight leading edge, blade sized head.

    As for how they compare to the Muirfields and the JNP, I believe the Muirfields were forged from the Pro 82 heads. The JNP was a new design in the late 80’s and was a bit larger so I don’t believe they were made from the Pro 82 head. As for the CB-92, I found this quote from Clay Long regarding its creation.

    “Jack actually played the JNP’s for several weeks after which he called and said he liked them but when he, “hit them fat, they didn’t go anywhere.” Translated, the blades were too long. So we cut cavities into the backs of the Pro-82’s(Muirfield forging) to make a short JNP for him. That later became the CB-92 forging. I left Macgregor in 1992 and one of my first projects for Nicklaus Golf was to machine the N1 back design into a set of Pro-82’s for Jack to play. In 2002 we made a new Personal Edition forging and again had to grind it down to Pro-82 size. To this day, he still plays a blade this size as far as I know.” -Clay Long

    If you look at the photo you can see the comparison of the production JNP and the custom JNP that became the CB-92.

    Personally, I don’t think the CB-92’s are hard to hit. I’m not the greatest ball-striker but have played with blade style or sized irons all my life so they aren’t a problem. I will say, I learned to play as a picker/sweeper like Jack so I don’t take big divots but pick it more off the turf. If you get steep, the CB-92’s will hurt you. The feel of the CB-92’s are incredible and are some of my favorite feeling irons.

    Interesting picture. The smaller CBs stamped "JNP" are the one Clay Long talks about making specially for Jack Nicklaus, right? Stamping aside, they really do appear to be identical to the CB-92s.

    I agree that the CB-92s are nice looking irons, but overall I prefer the Muirfield 20ths. However, you've inspired me: I think I'll have to take the CB92s out next time I play. For a while, I considered experimenting with a combo set, using the CB-92s in the 2i to 4 or 5i, then Muirfield 20ths. Might still do it one of these days, but at the range, I didn't find the CBs any more forgiving than the blades.

    Posted:
    Driver: Ping G400 Tour 65S
    4w: TaylorMade R9 stock Fujikura Motore X flex
    7w TaylorMade V-steel, Quadra Fire Express RB 6SX
    Hybrid: RomaRo iBrid 23* Attas EZ 85S
    Irons (4i-PW): Mizuno MP4 Attas 115X 4-PW (+0.5")
    Wedges: Cleveland RTX4 Forged 52* and 58*, DGS400 (both at 35.5")
    Putter: Mac Jack Nicklaus Muirfield/Taylormade TPA XVIII/Wilson 8802

    Old stuff: Tons of persimmon and older irons. 
  • deejaiddeejaid Members  920WRX Points: 783Posts: 920 Golden Tee
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    On -, @deejaid said:

    I’ve played CB-92’s on and off for the last 3 years or so and have probably done more research on these than many have. I’ve always liked the way they looked and wanted a set when they first came out but I was 16 and couldn’t afford them. They are very blade like and have the typical flat sole without much camber that Macgregor’s better players irons have had for years. Straight leading edge, blade sized head.

    As for how they compare to the Muirfields and the JNP, I believe the Muirfields were forged from the Pro 82 heads. The JNP was a new design in the late 80’s and was a bit larger so I don’t believe they were made from the Pro 82 head. As for the CB-92, I found this quote from Clay Long regarding its creation.

    “Jack actually played the JNP’s for several weeks after which he called and said he liked them but when he, “hit them fat, they didn’t go anywhere.” Translated, the blades were too long. So we cut cavities into the backs of the Pro-82’s(Muirfield forging) to make a short JNP for him. That later became the CB-92 forging. I left Macgregor in 1992 and one of my first projects for Nicklaus Golf was to machine the N1 back design into a set of Pro-82’s for Jack to play. In 2002 we made a new Personal Edition forging and again had to grind it down to Pro-82 size. To this day, he still plays a blade this size as far as I know.” -Clay Long

    If you look at the photo you can see the comparison of the production JNP and the custom JNP that became the CB-92.

    Personally, I don’t think the CB-92’s are hard to hit. I’m not the greatest ball-striker but have played with blade style or sized irons all my life so they aren’t a problem. I will say, I learned to play as a picker/sweeper like Jack so I don’t take big divots but pick it more off the turf. If you get steep, the CB-92’s will hurt you. The feel of the CB-92’s are incredible and are some of my favorite feeling irons.

    Interesting picture. The smaller CBs stamped "JNP" are the one Clay Long talks about making specially for Jack Nicklaus, right? Stamping aside, they really do appear to be identical to the CB-92s.

    I agree that the CB-92s are nice looking irons, but overall I prefer the Muirfield 20ths. However, you've inspired me: I think I'll have to take the CB92s out next time I play. For a while, I considered experimenting with a combo set, using the CB-92s in the 2i to 4 or 5i, then Muirfield 20ths. Might still do it one of these days, but at the range, I didn't find the CBs any more forgiving than the blades.

    Yes, the photos in the pic are the Clay Long custom Jack Nicklaus JNP and a stock JNP. Like you said, other than the stamping they look identical.

    And I did do a combo set of 3-6 CB92’s and 7-PW of 1990 era Macgregor VIP musclebacks and the CB-92’s played similar to the blades. The cavity of the CB-92 didn’t give any forgiveness and looking down at that head I never expected it to.

    Posted:
    The bag...
    Louisville Smart persimmon driver
    Pedersen persimmon 3,5 woods
    Hogan PTx Pro 4-7
    Hogan Icon 8-PW
    Tour Edge Rally 54* wedge
    Callaway PM Grind 58* wedge
    Rife Legend Z putter
  • xxioxxio Cebu, PhilippinesMembers  5848WRX Points: 292Posts: 5,848 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @jick
    Posted:
  • No_Catchy_NicknameNo_Catchy_Nickname Kyushu,_JapanMembers  6316WRX Points: 1,573Handicap: mePosts: 6,316 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #7

    On -, @deejaid said:

    On -, @deejaid said:

    I’ve played CB-92’s on and off for the last 3 years or so and have probably done more research on these than many have. I’ve always liked the way they looked and wanted a set when they first came out but I was 16 and couldn’t afford them. They are very blade like and have the typical flat sole without much camber that Macgregor’s better players irons have had for years. Straight leading edge, blade sized head.

    As for how they compare to the Muirfields and the JNP, I believe the Muirfields were forged from the Pro 82 heads. The JNP was a new design in the late 80’s and was a bit larger so I don’t believe they were made from the Pro 82 head. As for the CB-92, I found this quote from Clay Long regarding its creation.

    “Jack actually played the JNP’s for several weeks after which he called and said he liked them but when he, “hit them fat, they didn’t go anywhere.” Translated, the blades were too long. So we cut cavities into the backs of the Pro-82’s(Muirfield forging) to make a short JNP for him. That later became the CB-92 forging. I left Macgregor in 1992 and one of my first projects for Nicklaus Golf was to machine the N1 back design into a set of Pro-82’s for Jack to play. In 2002 we made a new Personal Edition forging and again had to grind it down to Pro-82 size. To this day, he still plays a blade this size as far as I know.” -Clay Long

    If you look at the photo you can see the comparison of the production JNP and the custom JNP that became the CB-92.

    Personally, I don’t think the CB-92’s are hard to hit. I’m not the greatest ball-striker but have played with blade style or sized irons all my life so they aren’t a problem. I will say, I learned to play as a picker/sweeper like Jack so I don’t take big divots but pick it more off the turf. If you get steep, the CB-92’s will hurt you. The feel of the CB-92’s are incredible and are some of my favorite feeling irons.

    Interesting picture. The smaller CBs stamped "JNP" are the one Clay Long talks about making specially for Jack Nicklaus, right? Stamping aside, they really do appear to be identical to the CB-92s.

    I agree that the CB-92s are nice looking irons, but overall I prefer the Muirfield 20ths. However, you've inspired me: I think I'll have to take the CB92s out next time I play. For a while, I considered experimenting with a combo set, using the CB-92s in the 2i to 4 or 5i, then Muirfield 20ths. Might still do it one of these days, but at the range, I didn't find the CBs any more forgiving than the blades.

    Yes, the photos in the pic are the Clay Long custom Jack Nicklaus JNP and a stock JNP. Like you said, other than the stamping they look identical.

    And I did do a combo set of 3-6 CB92’s and 7-PW of 1990 era Macgregor VIP musclebacks and the CB-92’s played similar to the blades. The cavity of the CB-92 didn’t give any forgiveness and looking down at that head I never expected it to.

    Yes, I'd definitely put them in the category of "CB that might as well be a blade." The Mizuno MP-64s were like that, too.
    I'm glad you posted that picture, because I was sniffing around for a set of the regular JNP CBs, but having seen how long heel-to-toe they are compared to the CB-92s (or Short JNPs), I don't think they'd suit my eye at address.

    Posted:
    Driver: Ping G400 Tour 65S
    4w: TaylorMade R9 stock Fujikura Motore X flex
    7w TaylorMade V-steel, Quadra Fire Express RB 6SX
    Hybrid: RomaRo iBrid 23* Attas EZ 85S
    Irons (4i-PW): Mizuno MP4 Attas 115X 4-PW (+0.5")
    Wedges: Cleveland RTX4 Forged 52* and 58*, DGS400 (both at 35.5")
    Putter: Mac Jack Nicklaus Muirfield/Taylormade TPA XVIII/Wilson 8802

    Old stuff: Tons of persimmon and older irons. 
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  • jickjick Members  1159WRX Points: 230Posts: 1,159 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @xxio said:

    On -, @jick

    The production model JNP's were their own forging setup. They were very long from heel to toe. Contrary to popular belief of Jack never using them, Jack did try them a few times but felt that fat shots did not go anywhere. Now, this is where my conjecture comes - owning a set of JNP's and having played them... because they had such a big footprint, and the sole grinds were relatively to Jack's specs which was a flat sole - one can just imagine how much turf contact and interaction there is. A fat shot probably won't glide as smoothly.

    After Jack Nicklaus ditched the original JNP's after a brief foray, he ended up using the Pro`82 tooling - which was a black forging with the same profile more or less as the Muirfields but being blank, it could be shaped any way by milling off the back. So apparently, a cavity was milled in the Pro 82's and that became the Jack version of the JNP - or his Tour Issue club.

    Chances are - maybe 90% but I am not too sure -- that the CB 92's were from that same Pro 82 tooling. Actually, the Cobra Greg Norman reverse muscle blades could have also been from the Pro 82's.

    Posted:
  • 3puttsRLife3puttsRLife Members  109WRX Points: 136Posts: 109 Fairways
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    Alot of good info here.

    Posted:
  • SteveNZSteveNZ Members  726WRX Points: 165Posts: 726 Golden Tee
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    You need to expand all the sub threads and scroll all the way through but lots of great info here too:

    Posted:
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members  13201WRX Points: 4,319Handicap: 5.0Posts: 13,201 Titanium Tees
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    I had a set of CB-92 way back when we had the shop---- For some reason I did not like the feel over the VIPs and even the FCs. That may be me being quirky at the time. I was playing the Mini Tours and had all the confidence in the world with those VIPs. I can see what you guys are saying about the long faces. That has also started to happen with me on the KZG CBs with the 6 and 7 irons. I think DJ can relate to this. I have gotten where I could not hit the 6 and 7 irons of the KZG and that is strictly in my brain. Plus I hurt myself Saturday with those and so the Machogans are back in the bag.

    Posted:

    Driver--- Honma G1-X Stock R shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Mitsu Diamana
    FW 7 woodTM V- Steel 21* Stock TM R
    Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan #2 Apex Shafts
    SW- Clevaland 588 56* Sensicore S-400
    LW Cleveland 588 60* Sensicore S-400
    Putter 1997 Cameron Santa FE rusty as heck Bulls Eye Satin fluted shaft
    Bags- Old School Burton mini staff non logo or Jones Classic

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  • BIG STUBIG STU Members  13201WRX Points: 4,319Handicap: 5.0Posts: 13,201 Titanium Tees
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    From what I have observed and been told over the years they are the same forgings as the VIPs just different stampings

    Posted:

    Driver--- Honma G1-X Stock R shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Mitsu Diamana
    FW 7 woodTM V- Steel 21* Stock TM R
    Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan #2 Apex Shafts
    SW- Clevaland 588 56* Sensicore S-400
    LW Cleveland 588 60* Sensicore S-400
    Putter 1997 Cameron Santa FE rusty as heck Bulls Eye Satin fluted shaft
    Bags- Old School Burton mini staff non logo or Jones Classic

  • 3puttsRLife3puttsRLife Members  109WRX Points: 136Posts: 109 Fairways
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    Well I just picked these up for $45 shipped. Not Mac's but I hear that they play good.

    Posted:
  • SteveNZSteveNZ Members  726WRX Points: 165Posts: 726 Golden Tee
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    More knowledge...

    Posted:
  • SteveNZSteveNZ Members  726WRX Points: 165Posts: 726 Golden Tee
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    In case you hadn’t figured it out, Clay Long’s Instagram feed is awesome.

    Posted:
  • 3puttsRLife3puttsRLife Members  109WRX Points: 136Posts: 109 Fairways
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    On -, @SteveNZ said:

    In case you hadn’t figured it out, Clay Long’s Instagram feed is awesome.

    Yeah I've followed it for awhile now. He's always posting up something amazing he's pulled from "the loft"

    Posted:
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  • BIG STUBIG STU Members  13201WRX Points: 4,319Handicap: 5.0Posts: 13,201 Titanium Tees
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    From what I have observed and been told over the years they are the same forgings as the VIPs just different stampings

    Posted:

    Driver--- Honma G1-X Stock R shaft
    FW Adams Tight Lies 16* Mitsu Diamana
    FW 7 woodTM V- Steel 21* Stock TM R
    Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan #2 Apex Shafts
    SW- Clevaland 588 56* Sensicore S-400
    LW Cleveland 588 60* Sensicore S-400
    Putter 1997 Cameron Santa FE rusty as heck Bulls Eye Satin fluted shaft
    Bags- Old School Burton mini staff non logo or Jones Classic

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]  0WRX Points: 2Posts: 0 Starters
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    JNP and CB92's are the same club. After Nicklaus left, they could no longer use the JNP name. The JNP's came in two flavors, the normal JNP and the JNP's with Square Grooves. These were designated by a SG stamp on the face of the iron on the toe side of the grooved area. I believe all CB92's were square grooved. Th Muirfield 20th's have correctly been described as Pro 81 (or later 860 forgings to replicate the Jack Nicklaus Limited Edition irons from 1981 that he used to win the 1986 Masters.

    Posted:

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