Rejecting the modern game

So, recently I picking up an old A.G. Spalding putter at an antique store. I actually though it was a hickory at first but when I got it home I noticed that it had a pyratone shaft (steel with a chemical coating to make it look like wood).

I thought that putter was kind of cool, so I decided to pick up a set of Spalding Autograph pyratone shafted irons. I liked those, so I decided to pick up a couple persimmon woods to finish it off and have a vintage bag.

Ive been playing those clubs off and on this year and Ive come to realize that I really enjoy them. I find that I hit the ball a lot straighter, a bit higher and am hitting more greens. I dont quite hit the ball as far but its not bad.

With the persimmon woods, I thought that they would be much more difficult to hit but Ive been playing them for a while now and I dont find them any more difficult to hit and I hit the ball much straighter, with maybe only 10 yards less of distance. I hit my modern driver about 230 yards, I hit my old Wilson persimmon about 220 yards. I honestly cant remember the last time that I lost a ball.

This experience has made me realize that distance isnt everything and that accuracy and feel are much more important. Its also made me question if all this new tech that is in modern clubs really is making us play better. For me, it doesnt make me play better and in some ways makes me play worse because Im not accurate with modern clubs.

Not to mention that playing with 80+ year old clubs is just fun and the looks and questions that I get about them are interesting, to say the least.

hit what you like and keep your game in the short grass. that usually silences the gallery.

best -

My perspective is that there definitely is substance to this line of thought. I started playing golf in the early days of the Ti era, when drivers were only just bumping against the 300cc threshold. As such, I missed out on the persimmon/laminate era, and read or heard comment after comment about how much better the modern drivers and fairways were, so glad we don't have to play that stuff anymore, etc.

Started off with a switch to blades when no one thought it a good idea. Bought a persimmon at 2nd Swing, found I hit it better overall than my then in-the-bag driver. In both cases, didn't understand the ruckus (still don't); they're not hard to hit. Got more persimmons, decided to play them full time for a full summer and watched my tee game improve significantly, and my hdcp drop into single digits for the first time ever.

Just as @Zengolfer36 has seen, I don't lose all that much distance with actual wood. Seem to lose much of the occasional bomb potential, but I should be able to live with that, especially as I've just hit 56; those days are quickly vanishing, if they haven't already.

I've even eliminated fairway woods, carry a 16* or 17* hybrid between my driver and irons. Could easily be a persimmon 3w.

With all my positive results, the obvious answer is that I should just chuck the oversized driver and and wallow in the world of persimmons and laminates. I've come close a couple times. My inner nerd combined with my inner tinkerer doesnt seem to want to let me go, though. LOL

I went over 2 years with only vintage gear. I'd recommend it to anyone. This year I did buy some modern sticks as I wanted to do some comps. But, I still prefer the old stuff and play it more often than new.

I do score slightly better with the modern stuff, but just barely.

I grew up with wood, and went back to it recently (my shopping caused me to stumble onto this forum). My overall ball striking has improved quite a bit, mostly because I'm not tempted to overswing.

To be fair, if I went back to balata I'd probably not enjoy the experience. I suspect a lot of the bad memories of the old wood days have more to do with the ball than the clubs.

I’ve spent the last 18 months playing nothing but persimmon woods. Haven’t swung a modern driver or fairway wood in that time and don’t plan to anytime soon. For the first year of my persimmon adventure I still played modern (post 1990) irons, but always single piece forged. I slowly started getting into vintage irons, wedges, and putters and now my entire bag is vintage. I really have no urge to play modern clubs at all.

I score the same with vintage clubs as modern but am actually trending lower as I practice more with the classics and really can diagnose the error of my strikes easier. Like the OP said, I rarely lose balls anymore. A bad drive usually means a low line drive that stays between the trees.

Walking with a classic bag of clubs is really the perfect way for me to experience the game.

Well Zen you have found it and nailed it. I agree with everyone else on here about vintage golf. And I am not that much shorter with the persimmon driver than a modern one either but straighter with the persimmon.

Id agree that I no longer really have any desire to hit or buy new clubs. I enjoy my vintage clubs because they have character. The rust, the patina loss, the little nicks on the soles. It all tells a story that I wish these clubs could tell me. Especially in the case of my irons and putter, that are likely over 80 years old, I can only imagine the stories these clubs could tell.

I also dont buy into the hype that persimmons and blades are hard to hit. By no means am I a great ball striker and I can hit these old clubs solid most of the time. Ive had a few people say to me, "those clubs are so cool but I could never do that" and Im always like, "why?" They arent THAT hard to hit.

> @Zengolfer36 said:

> Id agree that I no longer really have any desire to hit or buy new clubs. I enjoy my vintage clubs because they have character. The rust, the patina loss, the little nicks on the soles. It all tells a story that I wish these clubs could tell me. Especially in the case of my irons and putter, that are likely over 80 years old, I can only imagine the stories these clubs could tell.

> I also dont buy into the hype that persimmons and blades are hard to hit. By no means am I a great ball striker and I can hit these old clubs solid most of the time. Ive had a few people say to me, "those clubs are so cool but I could never do that" and Im always like, "why?" They arent THAT hard to hit.

I have always said a little rust, patina, bag chatter and lead tape add character

> @Zengolfer36 said:

> Id agree that I no longer really have any desire to hit or buy new clubs. I enjoy my vintage clubs because they have character. The rust, the patina loss, the little nicks on the soles. It all tells a story that I wish these clubs could tell me. Especially in the case of my irons and putter, that are likely over 80 years old, I can only imagine the stories these clubs could tell.

> I also dont buy into the hype that persimmons and blades are hard to hit. By no means am I a great ball striker and I can hit these old clubs solid most of the time. Ive had a few people say to me, "those clubs are so cool but I could never do that" and Im always like, "why?" **They arent THAT hard to hit.**

I remember a number of years ago watching a Tom Watson instructional video and he talked about warming up with a long iron. That spring I worked almost exclusively with a 3 iron to get my swing grooved. I was hitting it off the grass fairly consistently. It was an old 3 iron, not one that belonged to my modern set. When I switched to the modern clubs, I couldn't hit the irons worth a darn. Too big and clunky compard to the old clubs. It was soon afterwards that i began to play around a bit with classic clubs. Like you I discovered that i could even hit the wooden woods. Lots of eye opening moments then followed as i discovered the joy of playing with vintage sticks!

> @scomac2002 said:

> > @Zengolfer36 said:

> > Id agree that I no longer really have any desire to hit or buy new clubs. I enjoy my vintage clubs because they have character. The rust, the patina loss, the little nicks on the soles. It all tells a story that I wish these clubs could tell me. Especially in the case of my irons and putter, that are likely over 80 years old, I can only imagine the stories these clubs could tell.

> > I also dont buy into the hype that persimmons and blades are hard to hit. By no means am I a great ball striker and I can hit these old clubs solid most of the time. Ive had a few people say to me, "those clubs are so cool but I could never do that" and Im always like, "why?" **They arent THAT hard to hit.**

>

> I remember a number of years ago watching a Tom Watson instructional video and he talked about warming up with a long iron. That spring I worked almost exclusively with a 3 iron to get my swing grooved. I was hitting it off the grass fairly consistently. It was an old 3 iron, not one that belonged to my modern set. When I switched to the modern clubs, I couldn't hit the irons worth a darn. Too big and clunky compard to the old clubs. It was soon afterwards that i began to play around a bit with classic clubs. Like you I discovered that i could even hit the wooden woods. Lots of eye opening moments then followed as i discovered the joy of playing with vintage sticks!

>

Id agree with that. Most of this summer I spent playing modern, very forgiving, GI/SGI irons and then I started messing around with these Spaldings and my old Titleist DCI 981s. I actually find that classic ones much easier to play. I think its because theyre heavier and I can really feel where the clubhead is throughout the swing. With the modern ones, theyre so light that its more difficult to feel where the club is.

For me, modern GI type irons, hybrids and huge headed drivers just make you lazy, you start to rely on the clubs to save you from any mishit and consequently your swing deteriorates.

With classic clubs you've got to concentrate on your quality of strike and so you hit them better.

This is fascinating. I was just thinking about if scores would be the same or different without latest and greatest clubs. Creating a 'greatest hits' bag from last 10 years. Save $$$ and shoot same or lower scores. Might have to go further back to persimmons.

> @Sweetdraw said:

> This is fascinating. I was just thinking about if scores would be the same or different without latest and greatest clubs. **Creating a 'greatest hits' bag from last 10 years. Save $$$ and shoot same or lower scores.** Might have to go further back to persimmons.

What you've described in bold is what I play everyday as a modern set. I can go back to clubs over 25 years old and notice no discernable drop-off in performance when I'm swinging well. I have a set of Eye 2 clones that I play with an old set of War bird metal woods and I will score the same with those as the moderns. I would need to go back to playing forged blades and laminates/persimmon before I'm going to start to notice a measurable change in how I score.

> @scomac2002 said:

> > @Zengolfer36 said:

> > Id agree that I no longer really have any desire to hit or buy new clubs. I enjoy my vintage clubs because they have character. The rust, the patina loss, the little nicks on the soles. It all tells a story that I wish these clubs could tell me. Especially in the case of my irons and putter, that are likely over 80 years old, I can only imagine the stories these clubs could tell.

> > I also dont buy into the hype that persimmons and blades are hard to hit. By no means am I a great ball striker and I can hit these old clubs solid most of the time. Ive had a few people say to me, "those clubs are so cool but I could never do that" and Im always like, "why?" **They arent THAT hard to hit.**

>

> I remember a number of years ago watching a Tom Watson instructional video and he talked about warming up with a long iron. That spring I worked almost exclusively with a 3 iron to get my swing grooved. I was hitting it off the grass fairly consistently. It was an old 3 iron, not one that belonged to my modern set. When I switched to the modern clubs, I couldn't hit the irons worth a darn. Too big and clunky compard to the old clubs. It was soon afterwards that i began to play around a bit with classic clubs. Like you I discovered that i could even hit the wooden woods. Lots of eye opening moments then followed as i discovered the joy of playing with vintage sticks!

>

One of the reasons I went back to my old Macgregors--- Played with the bunch yesterday--- Now I can hang with them pretty well off the tee even though they outdrive me 5 yards or so. Now with the guys hitting modern clubs ( PXG 0311 and Homna) they were about 2 clubs stronger on the irons but it did not matter I had the lowest score at the end of the day with my signature set. If I am doing a range session in the range bag along with a persimmon driver there is a blade 1 iron. The only training gimmick I own besides a Medicus weighted club is a Tour Striker 5 iron. Both the Medicus and Tour Striker were scrapyard bin finds. In that same range bag I carry the Custom 985 tourney 5 7 and 8 irons Richard sent me. I have been known to pull the Medicus and tour striker out of the range bag and walk and play a few holes. For a putter I carry a Macgregor Calamity Jane stype Randy gave me when he was up here a while back. trust me when I get loose I do the TW thing with the 1 iron. Have had quite a few tourist golfers ask me why. I tell them because I can still hit one. The dead giveaway on the range is the little quail high stingers

> @Sweetdraw said:

> This is fascinating. I was just thinking about if scores would be the same or different without latest and greatest clubs. Creating a 'greatest hits' bag from last 10 years. Save $$$ and shoot same or lower scores. Might have to go further back to persimmons.

Im not noticing a difference. The course that I routinely play that is a 9-hole executive course. Par 35, 3020 yards. A few weeks ago I played it with my modern set and shot a 50. With my vintage shot yesterday I shot a 49. Id say that the difference is that while I hit the ball a bit shorter with my vintage clubs, Im much straighter.

My irons are 20 years old. Not super old but old enough. I play Mizuno MP 14. I toyed with the MP 69 and still have them but i like the old irons much better.. I sprayed the newer irons much more. I'll probably never switch. I have a two handicap so I see no reason to change. My swing is grooved to these irons.

Of course I am not as long with them. The lofts are weaker and the shaft is a quarter inch shorter but it doesn't matter. I'll hit a 6 iron from 165. The club number doesn't matter. The name of the game is hitting greens and keeping it in play. The course is about 6600 hundred yards. Not super long but tough. I do use more modern woods but the shaft lengths are old school. 43.5 on the driver 42 with the 3 wood and 41 with the 5 wood.

I get pressured to switch by people at my club, the irons are pretty beat up but none of them can beat me with their shiny new clubs. They figure If I can play to a two with these clubs then I can use anything. Not true at all. so F em. LOL

It took a lot of thinking and analysis over time to turn me towards looking for clubs and club styles that were available during my youth; I didn't play golf in my youth. My game today has as many "modern" persimmon woods from Louisville Golf and Joe Powell Golf in it with MacGregor V-Foil Tourney irons from ~2002 as it has woods and irons sets from the late '60s to late '80s.

Even on a good day, by 3 pm I can't remember what I had for breakfast that morning, but one of the things that has stuck with me is that the courses I play were designed and built during the time period when wooden woods and blades were all that were available, so that par was determined with those factors in mind. The courses I play run 5800-6400 yards. Consequently, I think to play metal heads and GI irons is, for me, "cheating the course". The other, and biggest thing is, I think metal heads sound horrible compared to the sound of hitting a wood, and they don't look much better than they sound (when compared with a wood).

Regardless, for the last six years I've played exclusively with persimmon or laminated woods and forged blades until the ground starts to get hard in the autumn, then switch to metal heads and cast Titleist AP1 GI irons for the last month or so of the season so that the thinner lies and hard ground don't scrape up the bottom of the fairway woods or stress the loft on my forged blades.

My metal heads are 1st gen, titanium-faced Callaway Big Bertha Hawkeyes from ~'98, which I bought used. The driver is 250cc. I hit them ~ 20 yards farther on average than the persimmons. The difference in distance with the irons is nil, after adjusting for loft and shaft flex. I remember this when I pull them out in the autumn and take the differences into account and over a couple rounds my accuracy (such as it can be) closes in. Ultimately, I don't score any better with the "autumn" set than I do with the vintage clubs because of course, we who know the difference realize that it's the short game that most influences the numbers on the scorecard.

ROCK ON there!!!!! Yep it is funny when one takes old blades with traditional lofts and beats the shiny new jacked to the hilt jelly filled iron guys. It is even funnier when the same guy takes 40 year old plus persimmon woods and beat the guys with the modern twisted sister faced jailbird faced and do not forget injected too with jelly metal woods.

Yeah, LOL

Most those guys when they actually hit a fairway are longer than me. They hit 5 greens a round I hit 15. It is better when I show up for a state Am. event with these clubs. Like I said, I have modern woods but my irons look like they got hit by a car. They are still nice as far as the shine on them but when you look close.

I won two local events and almost a state one so like I said above, F em. LOL

Tim--- It is a wonder you do not catch some flack over conformity in those state events---- I know the rules state "good until 2025 except in some events" I ran into that with the Carolinas Golf Association. I had entertained the thought of getting my Am status back and playing some events. Then it got into all that mess. I was not going to pay for the USGA to consider giving me my AM status back and sending my clubs off to be tested and then after all of that having to go through the hassle of defending myself even with conforming paperwork. I said F them too. Besides the travel expenses are the same as Mini Tour events and NO money payout. I drew my line in the sand then. I will play what I want to and when and where I want to.

Don't quite know what the modern game is as it relates to how I play at golf these days. Guess it's a distance thing. But I lose distance with every passing year seemingly. WTS, I move back and forth between modern implements and classic. Enjoy the challenge of playing wood and blade. I play better with the modern kit, but not that much better. But I'm not really that good playing at golf. Don't keep a handicap. Often do not really care what my "score" is, unless I'm playing against the buds in our weekly shoot around. Do not play competitions. Totally disregard whether my kit "conforms". Make up my own rules of golf as I go along (My dime, my rules. Within reason). Understand my limitations and adjust course length to something manageable. Long ago jettisoned ego, I'm not good enough to have one. Play for my personal pleasure. It's very liberating. As I can utilize whatever I choose on a given day.

Attempting to achieve the feel of a perfectly struck shot off of classic persimmon and blade one more time. Quite unique.

Honestly,

Nobody has ever said a word about my clubs. They are not that old. Mizuno MP 14 I believe was 1999 or around there. I don't blame you for not wanting to go through all that. Once I turned 50 and was able to play in the Senior division I decided to play again. The guys are much more relaxed and it's enjoyable. Still serious but we all talk to each other and try not to take it too serious. After all, we are not pro's. Don't make are living playing golf. It's suppose to be fun. I stopped around 45 years old playing for awhile in events like that. The younger guys all thought they were Tiger Woods. You couldn't even talk to half those guys. They all had headphones in their ears or half the time had their faces buried in a screen. It gets annoying also when you play with a group of guys who you can feel are rooting for you to F up a hole.

You are right about it becoming expensive. I mostly stay in my local district now. So I don't need to get rooms and drive half the day across the state. I mostly enjoy playing my 9 holes alone four nights a week and practicing .

I don't know about you but I find the older I get the more I enjoy just being alone.

I like that. Good attitude and you just enjoy the game. Nothing wrong with that at all!!

FWIW, MP14s were 94 to 98, according to Ironfinder, anyway.

I think the MP14s are actually conforming. Not all the old irons are "illegal." I've an old set of Titleist Tour Models (1979-80) that I've been told are still conforming, and I think the Mizuno irons are almost all conforming. In fact, I'm pretty certain that all the MP/MS models are all conforming.

Anyway, it's only elite competitions that it matters, for the most part.

As an aside, I've just put my MP-14s in the bag. I think these could go in my modern or persimmon bag. Though I am putting the 2i away for winter...

Someone here on WRX asked Mizuno directly, and was told by them that the MP model Mizuno irons were all conforming to the 2010 groove rule.

Since the MS models are the same as the MP models, that would make them also conforming.

Yep I feel about like you about other people---- I relish my few hole walking rounds with 5 or so vintage clubs--- I can't walk like I used to due to age and injury but I do play some 5 hole rounds until the end of December anyhow. My home course closes at the end of December for good to put condos on it----- About the only walking friendly course on this end is the little Executive course up the street and their prices are way to high for what it is---- They do not care about the local trade there anyhow they are after the high buck Tourist dollar

The reason the Titleist irons are conforming despite the fact they actually are is because someone at some time submitted a set for testing and thus they are on the conforming list. I am sure my Macs are conforming if I paid and submitted them but at this stage of life I am not going to the hassle.

Man, that's sucks about your course closing. I walk also. I did get a push cart for my bag when I walk. I use a caddy if I go to an event. He's just a good friend and just hands me clubs and keeps them clean. I do all the yardages. Which I do by feel anyway. I normally don't look at the yardage markers at all or use a range finder. LOlL, that is totally true too. Last year I hit a quarter of six iron ( I don't think I took the club past my shin bone) from 120 yards about ten feet off the ground. It landed two feet from the pin. It was so cool. It was in a tournament, which made it even better.

I like doing stuff like that. Keeps me from getting board. Of course I try that stuff all the time and it only works maybe 2 out of 5 times but what the hell. LOL