What crucial putting distances determine score

I am looking over tons of stats and I cam comparing stats.

I am sure everyone seen and heard about putting stats and how putting drops off after 6'. In theory if you hitting putts like this you should see you score drop especially if you doing well lag putting.

Overall I think this works to lower your score into the 70's the bigger question is when you achieve tour level putting inside 10 feet what is really needed to propel you into the 60's . I have noticed if you miss putts over 10' breaking 70 is very hard to do. I have also noticed that top level tour pro's seem to be well above average in the 10-25' ranges. Above 25' almost no one makes.

Is the 10-25' a very crucial distance?

Putting drops off as you get further away, regardless. No doubt you will score better if you consistently make more 3,4,5,6,7,8 foot putts and improve from any distance. But, distance control, fundamentals, green reading all play a part.

Not sure about making more putts being "the" defining factor in breaking 80 or breaking 70 - depends on the player. Just one example but I wasn't a better putter when I started breaking 80 than I was when I was shooting in the 90s or the 80s, other things made that difference for me. But, I've never achieved tour level putting although some folks who think they are worse putters than they really are fall into the trap of comparing themselves to top pro stats, IMO.

Getting into the 60s is more about giving yourself birdie putts and when miss the green, your getting yourself inside 5 feet to save par consistently.

> @tiger1873 said:

> I am looking over tons of stats and I cam comparing stats.

>

> I am sure everyone seen and heard about putting stats and how putting drops off after 6'. In theory if you hitting putts like this you should see you score drop especially if you doing well lag putting.

>

> Overall I think this works to lower your score into the 70's the bigger question is when you achieve tour level putting inside 10 feet what is really needed to propel you into the 60's . I have noticed if you miss putts over 10' breaking 70 is very hard to do. I have also noticed that top level tour pro's seem to be well above average in the 10-25' ranges. Above 25' almost no one makes.

>

> Is the 10-25' a very crucial distance?

>

>

10-25 feet is probably the least critical distance, you'll make very few, and almost never 3-putt. Sure, if you NEVER make a 12 footer you can improve that, but the PGA Tour average is only about 1 of 3 from 12'. Most decent players almost always 2-putt or better from 12 to 25 feet, but don't make many, so there's not a lot of room for improvement. I'd suggest that 5 to 10 feet is where you have a chance to actually make more putts. If you're not making most of your 5-footers, half of your 8-footers, a decent percentage of 10-footers, that's where you can make the biggest difference. Then, of source, you have to get a decent number of shots into that 10-foot zone.

For amateurs, it's putting from 3-15 feet.

For pros (or wannabe pros) it's putting from 5-15 feet because most pros have a smaller deviation in performance from 3-5 feet.

If you look at pros from a specific distance, it's about 4-feet in terms of correlation to Strokes Gained - Putting.

The other big part is reduce the deviation on left-to-right vs. right-to-left putts. The best putters have almost no bias between right-to-left or left-to-right putts.

RH

So here is the thing I am noticing a lot people can easily sink putts inside of 10 feet. If you can sink 80%-85% from within 10 feet you will be able to make a ton a pars if you can hit the green. if you can not sink these putts breaking 80 is almost impossible because your going to 3 putting. A lot amateurs are here in how they play.

Also how close do you think on average a player can reasonable get to the pin even with great iron shots? Looking at the stats 15' average seems almost too good. So taking that into account anything closer to 10 feet can just be attributed to random luck.

It's not that you have to be great at 15 or 20 foot putts it's just you have to at least make some. Looking at pga pro stats I am seeing they make anywhere from 20-30% so on 18 holes (taking an average from pin distance) there making 3-6 birdies a round. Most amateurs probably are lucky to make 1 long putt every 18 holes.

> @tiger1873 said:

> So here is the thing I am noticing a lot people can easily sink putts inside of 10 feet. If you can sink 80%-85% from within 10 feet you will be able to make a ton a pars if you can hit the green. if you can not sink these putts breaking 80 is almost impossible because your going to 3 putting. A lot amateurs are here in how they play.

>

> Also how close do you think on average a player can reasonable get to the pin even with great iron shots? Looking at the stats 15' average seems almost too good. So taking that into account anything closer to 10 feet can just be attributed to random luck.

>

> It's not that you have to be great at 15 or 20 foot putts it's just you have to at least make some. Looking at pga pro stats I am seeing they make anywhere from 20-30% so on 18 holes (taking an average from pin distance) there making 3-6 birdies a round. Most amateurs probably are lucky to make 1 long putt every 18 holes.

>

>

Making 10 footers and and 3 putting from 10 feet (or even 15-20 feet) are two very different things. Inside 10 feet and lets say 4-8 feet are also two different things. But you are right, the pros make a large % of putts inside 10 ft (although only 60% of putts from 10ft) and one cannot really bank on draining multiple long putts per round, even if they practiced putting for hours a day. So is the difference putting skill or is it ball striking skill such that pros consistently give themselves shorter putts and thus increase their 1 putt percentage? One other thing to consider is green speed as well, if you play on slow greens, they generally do not roll as true as the slick perfect greens the pros play on.

> @Krt22 said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > So here is the thing I am noticing a lot people can easily sink putts inside of 10 feet. If you can sink 80%-85% from within 10 feet you will be able to make a ton a pars if you can hit the green. if you can not sink these putts breaking 80 is almost impossible because your going to 3 putting. A lot amateurs are here in how they play.

> >

> > Also how close do you think on average a player can reasonable get to the pin even with great iron shots? Looking at the stats 15' average seems almost too good. So taking that into account anything closer to 10 feet can just be attributed to random luck.

> >

> > It's not that you have to be great at 15 or 20 foot putts it's just you have to at least make some. Looking at pga pro stats I am seeing they make anywhere from 20-30% so on 18 holes (taking an average from pin distance) there making 3-6 birdies a round. Most amateurs probably are lucky to make 1 long putt every 18 holes.

> >

> >

>

> Making 10 footers and and 3 putting from 10 feet (or even 15-20 feet) are two very different things. Inside 10 feet and lets say 4-8 feet are also two different things. But you are right, the pros make a large % of putts inside 10 ft (although only 60% of putts from 10ft) and one cannot really bank on draining multiple long putts per round, even if they practiced putting for hours a day. So is the difference putting skill or is it ball striking skill such that pros consistently give themselves shorter putts and thus increase their 1 putt percentage? One other thing to consider is green speed as well, if you play on slow greens, they generally do not roll as true as the slick perfect greens the pros play on.

I would say ball striking is important but what is a realistic distance from the pin. Getting the ball every time within 10 feet is probably not realistic if you have a iron in your hand unless PGA tour stats are way off. So I have to think putting must be playing into it.

Within 10 ft is not realistic on every GIR, agreed, but if you aren't giving yourself a few looks per round (especially on par 5s) that may be the bigger issue. Avoiding bad bogeys by missing 4-8 foot par putts is likely more important than hoping to sink more 15-20ft birdies as well.

Nearly every good player I have known (I'm not one of them) is pretty solid from 5 ft in. You don't have to be a great lag putter if you are good from inside 5 imo.

If you're not inside 10 feet and laying 3 of all the par 6s, your gonna struggle to break 70. Thateans you either got there by missing the eagle putt or getting there from short of the green. On par 4s with wedge in hand you can easily be within 20 feet. birdies n anything else is just gravy.

Another way to maybe look at your question is..... **if you look at putting stats could you estimate how that player scores?**

Do putting stats reveal how a player scores or how good that player is..... would be interesting to see if a player putts better or worse then their score.

The stats would also reveal the distances made and how that relates to score..... might be confusing because player could have different strengths and weaknesses within putting.... great long putter but cant make the ones inside 10 feet

> @tiger1873 said:

> So here is the thing I am noticing a lot people can easily sink putts inside of 10 feet. If you can sink 80%-85% from within 10 feet you will be able to make a ton a pars if you can hit the green. if you can not sink these putts breaking 80 is almost impossible because your going to 3 putting. A lot amateurs are here in how they play.

>

> Also how close do you think on average a player can reasonable get to the pin even with great iron shots? Looking at the stats 15' average seems almost too good. So taking that into account anything closer to 10 feet can just be attributed to random luck.

>

>** It's not that you have to be great at 15 or 20 foot putts it's just you have to at least make some.** Looking at pga pro stats I am seeing they make anywhere from 20-30% so on 18 holes (taking an average from pin distance) there making 3-6 birdies a round. Most amateurs probably are lucky to make 1 long putt every 18 holes.

>

>

Nobody makes anywhere close to this percentage. The Strokes Gained baseline is about 75% at 5 feet, 50% at 8 feet, that's what an aspiring player should hope to achieve on a long-term basis.

From 15 to 25 feet, the middle-of-pack pro last year averaged making about 1 in 6 tries. Looking at the number of rounds and number of attempts, most seemed to have around 3 opportunities per round. So if these guys made NONE in this range, they'd lose 1/2 stroke per round. If they DOUBLE their make percent, they lower their score by that same half stroke. Let's take a good amateur, one who makes these putts at half the rate that the average tour pro does. Over a 4-round tournament, he takes 12 attempts, and makes 1 of them. If he improves to the average pro level, he makes 2, he's saved a single stroke over the 4-day event. There's just not many strokes to gain in this range.

From 3 to 5 feet, lots of ams miss too many, the pros are close to 90% in this range. From 5 to 10 feet, ams miss a majority, the pros MAKE a majority. This is the range that makes a difference.

> @davep043 said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > So here is the thing I am noticing a lot people can easily sink putts inside of 10 feet. If you can sink 80%-85% from within 10 feet you will be able to make a ton a pars if you can hit the green. if you can not sink these putts breaking 80 is almost impossible because your going to 3 putting. A lot amateurs are here in how they play.

> >

> > Also how close do you think on average a player can reasonable get to the pin even with great iron shots? Looking at the stats 15' average seems almost too good. So taking that into account anything closer to 10 feet can just be attributed to random luck.

> >

> >** It's not that you have to be great at 15 or 20 foot putts it's just you have to at least make some.** Looking at pga pro stats I am seeing they make anywhere from 20-30% so on 18 holes (taking an average from pin distance) there making 3-6 birdies a round. Most amateurs probably are lucky to make 1 long putt every 18 holes.

> >

> >

> Nobody makes anywhere close to this percentage. The Strokes Gained baseline is about 75% at 5 feet, 50% at 8 feet, that's what an aspiring player should hope to achieve on a long-term basis.

>

> From 15 to 25 feet, the middle-of-pack pro last year averaged making about 1 in 6 tries. Looking at the number of rounds and number of attempts, most seemed to have around 3 opportunities per round. So if these guys made NONE in this range, they'd lose 1/2 stroke per round. If they DOUBLE their make percent, they lower their score by that same half stroke. Let's take a good amateur, one who makes these putts at half the rate that the average tour pro does. Over a 4-round tournament, he takes 12 attempts, and makes 1 of them. If he improves to the average pro level, he makes 2, he's saved a single stroke over the 4-day event. There's just not many strokes to gain in this range.

>

> From 3 to 5 feet, lots of ams miss too many, the pros are close to 90% in this range. From 5 to 10 feet, ams miss a majority, the pros MAKE a majority. This is the range that makes a difference.

Here are the stats for 2019 since 2020 doesn't have a lot data if you look the stat's % made are generally between 20-30% for payers who actually win.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.406.2019.html

5 - 12 feet. This is where you save par from a bad lag putt or get up and down off an average to below average chip. And also where you should expect yourself to have a chance to make birdie putts. If you miss a 20 footer, you can live with that, but when you get inside 12, the expectation is to make it. Not that you should every time, but you are not considering a miss to be a good lag putt, its a miss and it cost you a stroke.

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > So here is the thing I am noticing a lot people can easily sink putts inside of 10 feet. If you can sink 80%-85% from within 10 feet you will be able to make a ton a pars if you can hit the green. if you can not sink these putts breaking 80 is almost impossible because your going to 3 putting. A lot amateurs are here in how they play.

> > >

> > > Also how close do you think on average a player can reasonable get to the pin even with great iron shots? Looking at the stats 15' average seems almost too good. So taking that into account anything closer to 10 feet can just be attributed to random luck.

> > >

> > >** It's not that you have to be great at 15 or 20 foot putts it's just you have to at least make some.** Looking at pga pro stats I am seeing they make anywhere from 20-30% so on 18 holes (taking an average from pin distance) there making 3-6 birdies a round. Most amateurs probably are lucky to make 1 long putt every 18 holes.

> > >

> > >

> > Nobody makes anywhere close to this percentage. The Strokes Gained baseline is about 75% at 5 feet, 50% at 8 feet, that's what an aspiring player should hope to achieve on a long-term basis.

> >

> > From 15 to 25 feet, the middle-of-pack pro last year averaged making about 1 in 6 tries. Looking at the number of rounds and number of attempts, most seemed to have around 3 opportunities per round. So if these guys made NONE in this range, they'd lose 1/2 stroke per round. If they DOUBLE their make percent, they lower their score by that same half stroke. Let's take a good amateur, one who makes these putts at half the rate that the average tour pro does. Over a 4-round tournament, he takes 12 attempts, and makes 1 of them. If he improves to the average pro level, he makes 2, he's saved a single stroke over the 4-day event. There's just not many strokes to gain in this range.

> >

> > From 3 to 5 feet, lots of ams miss too many, the pros are close to 90% in this range. From 5 to 10 feet, ams miss a majority, the pros MAKE a majority. This is the range that makes a difference.

>

> Here are the stats for 2019 since 2020 doesn't have a lot data if you look the stat's % made are generally between 20-30% for payers who actually win.

>

> https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.406.2019.html

You know what I like to look at a lot, when I'm deciding where I "should be" or "could be". . .what the WORST PGA pros are doing. So, if the worst guys are always around 10% from 15-20', I'm happy if I'm 10% from 15-20'. If the worst pros are 25% sand save percentage, then I'm OK if I'm at 25%. The worst putters on tour could shoot 65 on your course without making a putt over 15 feet.

I know you asked about putting in this thread, but I'm getting the sense that you have an out-sized opinion of the effect of putting on scoring. You dismiss the idea of iron play because you're not going to hit it close too often.

Let me tell you, you're not going to go from breaking 80 to breaking 70 because you increase your percentage on 7-15' footers by 25% or 50%.

On my course, at 6800 yards, pros would be hitting 16-18 greens every time out. They're going to out-putt me by a little, but they're going to out ball strike me by a mile. Their iron play might not be getting them easy looks at birdie every single hole, but it's good enough that they're not going to make bogeys. And, they're going to stuff a couple of mid-irons, hit a few wedges close, and make mince-meat of the par 5's WITH BALL STRIKING.

You asked in the first pot, "If you achieve tour level putting inside 10 feet, what's going to propel you into the 60s?"

The answer is not "better putting". It's better ball striking. You can have the best short game in the world (chipping and putting), but if you're only hitting 9 greens, you are going to get beat by a guy who hits 15 greens and doesn't make a putt over 15 feet.

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > So here is the thing I am noticing a lot people can easily sink putts inside of 10 feet. If you can sink 80%-85% from within 10 feet you will be able to make a ton a pars if you can hit the green. if you can not sink these putts breaking 80 is almost impossible because your going to 3 putting. A lot amateurs are here in how they play.

> > >

> > > Also how close do you think on average a player can reasonable get to the pin even with great iron shots? Looking at the stats 15' average seems almost too good. So taking that into account anything closer to 10 feet can just be attributed to random luck.

> > >

> > >** It's not that you have to be great at 15 or 20 foot putts it's just you have to at least make some.** Looking at pga pro stats I am seeing they make anywhere from 20-30% so on 18 holes (taking an average from pin distance) there making 3-6 birdies a round. Most amateurs probably are lucky to make 1 long putt every 18 holes.

> > >

> > >

> > Nobody makes anywhere close to this percentage. The Strokes Gained baseline is about 75% at 5 feet, 50% at 8 feet, that's what an aspiring player should hope to achieve on a long-term basis.

> >

> > From 15 to 25 feet, the middle-of-pack pro last year averaged making about 1 in 6 tries. Looking at the number of rounds and number of attempts, most seemed to have around 3 opportunities per round. So if these guys made NONE in this range, they'd lose 1/2 stroke per round. If they DOUBLE their make percent, they lower their score by that same half stroke. Let's take a good amateur, one who makes these putts at half the rate that the average tour pro does. Over a 4-round tournament, he takes 12 attempts, and makes 1 of them. If he improves to the average pro level, he makes 2, he's saved a single stroke over the 4-day event. There's just not many strokes to gain in this range.

> >

> > From 3 to 5 feet, lots of ams miss too many, the pros are close to 90% in this range. From 5 to 10 feet, ams miss a majority, the pros MAKE a majority. This is the range that makes a difference.

>

> Here are the stats for 2019 since 2020 doesn't have a lot data if you look the stat's % made are generally between 20-30% for payers who actually win.

>

> https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.406.2019.html

That was 15-20, and I mentioned 15-25', which means a slightly lower percentage.

Adam Scott made 22 putts in this range for the entire year, 63 rounds, almost 30% of his chances. That saved him about 0.35 strokes per round versus making none. That saved him less than one stroke per 4-round tournament as compared to the last name on the list, Sergio, who only made 8% of 75 attempts.

I read back to your original post. The question you posed was "Once you get to PGA Tour level putting within 10 feet, what's the next step to shooting in the 60s?" That's easy, make sure that a larger percentage of your first putts are within 10 feet. If you're Tour level from 10', you'll be pretty good at 15 and 20 and 30 feet. The key to shooting low scores is to have short birdie putts. The key to having short putts is to have short shots into the greens, from the fairway whenever possible.

> @davep043 said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > > So here is the thing I am noticing a lot people can easily sink putts inside of 10 feet. If you can sink 80%-85% from within 10 feet you will be able to make a ton a pars if you can hit the green. if you can not sink these putts breaking 80 is almost impossible because your going to 3 putting. A lot amateurs are here in how they play.

> > > >

> > > > Also how close do you think on average a player can reasonable get to the pin even with great iron shots? Looking at the stats 15' average seems almost too good. So taking that into account anything closer to 10 feet can just be attributed to random luck.

> > > >

> > > >** It's not that you have to be great at 15 or 20 foot putts it's just you have to at least make some.** Looking at pga pro stats I am seeing they make anywhere from 20-30% so on 18 holes (taking an average from pin distance) there making 3-6 birdies a round. Most amateurs probably are lucky to make 1 long putt every 18 holes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > Nobody makes anywhere close to this percentage. The Strokes Gained baseline is about 75% at 5 feet, 50% at 8 feet, that's what an aspiring player should hope to achieve on a long-term basis.

> > >

> > > From 15 to 25 feet, the middle-of-pack pro last year averaged making about 1 in 6 tries. Looking at the number of rounds and number of attempts, most seemed to have around 3 opportunities per round. So if these guys made NONE in this range, they'd lose 1/2 stroke per round. If they DOUBLE their make percent, they lower their score by that same half stroke. Let's take a good amateur, one who makes these putts at half the rate that the average tour pro does. Over a 4-round tournament, he takes 12 attempts, and makes 1 of them. If he improves to the average pro level, he makes 2, he's saved a single stroke over the 4-day event. There's just not many strokes to gain in this range.

> > >

> > > From 3 to 5 feet, lots of ams miss too many, the pros are close to 90% in this range. From 5 to 10 feet, ams miss a majority, the pros MAKE a majority. This is the range that makes a difference.

> >

> > Here are the stats for 2019 since 2020 doesn't have a lot data if you look the stat's % made are generally between 20-30% for payers who actually win.

> >

> > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.406.2019.html

>

> That was 15-20, and I mentioned 15-25', which means a slightly lower percentage.

> Adam Scott made 22 putts in this range for the entire year, 63 rounds, almost 30% of his chances. That saved him about 0.35 strokes per round versus making none. That saved him less than one stroke per 4-round tournament as compared to the last name on the list, Sergio, who only made 8% of 75 attempts.

>

> I read back to your original post. The question you posed was "Once you get to PGA Tour level putting within 10 feet, what's the next step to shooting in the 60s?" That's easy, make sure that a larger percentage of your first putts are within 10 feet. If you're Tour level from 10', you'll be pretty good at 15 and 20 and 30 feet. The key to shooting low scores is to have short birdie putts. The key to having short putts is to have short shots into the greens, from the fairway whenever possible.

But.

What I find funny is that stat does not quantify what Adam Scott May have gained by those 22 makes in that range. Often times those are either round savers or tournament winners.

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> If you're not inside 10 feet and laying 3 of all the par 6s, your gonna struggle to break 70. Thateans you either got there by missing the eagle putt or getting there from short of the green. On par 4s with wedge in hand you can easily be within 20 feet. birdies n anything else is just gravy.

"easily be within 20 feet".

yeah, you'd be in the top 100 *of the world*

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.074.2019.html

c'mon, let's deal with reality.

> @larrybud said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > If you're not inside 10 feet and laying 3 of all the par 6s, your gonna struggle to break 70. Thateans you either got there by missing the eagle putt or getting there from short of the green. On par 4s with wedge in hand you can easily be within 20 feet. birdies n anything else is just gravy.

>

> "easily be within 20 feet".

>

> yeah, you'd be in the top 100 *of the world*

>

> https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.074.2019.html

>

> c'mon, let's deal with reality.

OP wanted to know what would propel you into the 60s. That's high level AM level at least.

> @bladehunter said:

> > @davep043 said:

> >

> > That was 15-20, and I mentioned 15-25', which means a slightly lower percentage.

> > Adam Scott made 22 putts in this range for the entire year, 63 rounds, almost 30% of his chances. That saved him about 0.35 strokes per round versus making none. That saved him less than one stroke per 4-round tournament as compared to the last name on the list, Sergio, who only made 8% of 75 attempts.

>

> But.

> What I find funny is that stat does not quantify what Adam Scott May have gained by those 22 makes in that range. Often times those are either round savers or tournament winners.

I don't know, he only made one of these about every third round. In this range, he only gained one stroke in every 6 rounds over someone with "average" stats from that range. That's 10 strokes for the season, near enough. Yes, every stroke counts, but getting to be the best in the game at this range just isn't going to gain you many strokes on the other players at this level.

> @davep043 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > >

> > > That was 15-20, and I mentioned 15-25', which means a slightly lower percentage.

> > > Adam Scott made 22 putts in this range for the entire year, 63 rounds, almost 30% of his chances. That saved him about 0.35 strokes per round versus making none. That saved him less than one stroke per 4-round tournament as compared to the last name on the list, Sergio, who only made 8% of 75 attempts.

>

> >

> > But.

> > What I find funny is that stat does not quantify what Adam Scott May have gained by those 22 makes in that range. Often times those are either round savers or tournament winners.

>

> I don't know, he only made one of these about every third round. In this range, he only gained one stroke in every 6 rounds over someone with "average" stats from that range. That's 10 strokes for the season, near enough. Yes, every stroke counts, but getting to be the best in the game at this range just isn't going to gain you many strokes on the other players at this level.

Maybe so. But on the other hand I think taking that you won’t make any because nobody does is a dangerous thing too. I guess I’m just not a fan of the “ inside 3 ft “ target from 20 ft and out. I think make almost always. And I make more from long range than most. My struggles have always been 10 ft and in. Now that’s sorted and I just don’t know why you wouldn’t want to make from all over?

Point of my thinking is , I’d want to be best at all distances with putter. No player ever said “ man I wish I could trade 5 yards for 3-4 putts made a week. Nor have they said that they’d want to swap 3-4 putts for averaging 2 ft closer in proximity a week. 3-4 putts over 4 rounds is an attainable improvement for most. And I know has made the largest single improvement in my game. I’m averaging 28.4 as of the method reboot I made. From 33.2. Scoring average dropped 3 full shots over a month with no other changes.

> @bladehunter said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > >

> > > > That was 15-20, and I mentioned 15-25', which means a slightly lower percentage.

> > > > Adam Scott made 22 putts in this range for the entire year, 63 rounds, almost 30% of his chances. That saved him about 0.35 strokes per round versus making none. That saved him less than one stroke per 4-round tournament as compared to the last name on the list, Sergio, who only made 8% of 75 attempts.

> >

> > >

> > > But.

> > > What I find funny is that stat does not quantify what Adam Scott May have gained by those 22 makes in that range. Often times those are either round savers or tournament winners.

> >

> > I don't know, he only made one of these about every third round. In this range, he only gained one stroke in every 6 rounds over someone with "average" stats from that range. That's 10 strokes for the season, near enough. Yes, every stroke counts, but getting to be the best in the game at this range just isn't going to gain you many strokes on the other players at this level.

>

> Maybe so. But on the other hand I think taking that you won’t make any because nobody does is a dangerous thing too. I guess I’m just not a fan of the “ inside 3 ft “ target from 20 ft and out. I think make almost always. And I make more from long range than most. My struggles have always been 10 ft and in. Now that’s sorted and I just don’t know why you wouldn’t want to make from all over?

>

> Point of my thinking is , I’d want to be best at all distances with putter. No player ever said “ man I wish I could trade 5 yards for 3-4 putts made a week. Nor have they said that they’d want to swap 3-4 putts for averaging 2 ft closer in proximity a week. 3-4 putts over 4 rounds is an attainable improvement for most. And I know has made the largest single improvement in my game. I’m averaging 28.4 as of the method reboot I made. From 33.2. Scoring average dropped 3 full shots over a month with no other changes.

I won't argue about what has helped you succeed, but I go back to the OP. He assumes that somehow he'll get to PGA Tour putting ability from 10 feet and closer, and wonders how he can go from there into the 60s regularly. In my opinion, improvement on the shorter putts will almost certainly translate into improvement on longer putts as well. So the thing he has to do is to create more chances to make more putts, and his best avenue to create those chances is to hit the ball closer. As I said, improving from an average putter from 15-25 feet to become one of the best is likely to get him something like 1/2 stroke per round. That's not getting him into the 60s. Getting the ball closer is what he needs.

> @davep043 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > >

> > > > > That was 15-20, and I mentioned 15-25', which means a slightly lower percentage.

> > > > > Adam Scott made 22 putts in this range for the entire year, 63 rounds, almost 30% of his chances. That saved him about 0.35 strokes per round versus making none. That saved him less than one stroke per 4-round tournament as compared to the last name on the list, Sergio, who only made 8% of 75 attempts.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > But.

> > > > What I find funny is that stat does not quantify what Adam Scott May have gained by those 22 makes in that range. Often times those are either round savers or tournament winners.

> > >

> > > I don't know, he only made one of these about every third round. In this range, he only gained one stroke in every 6 rounds over someone with "average" stats from that range. That's 10 strokes for the season, near enough. Yes, every stroke counts, but getting to be the best in the game at this range just isn't going to gain you many strokes on the other players at this level.

> >

> > Maybe so. But on the other hand I think taking that you won’t make any because nobody does is a dangerous thing too. I guess I’m just not a fan of the “ inside 3 ft “ target from 20 ft and out. I think make almost always. And I make more from long range than most. My struggles have always been 10 ft and in. Now that’s sorted and I just don’t know why you wouldn’t want to make from all over?

> >

> > Point of my thinking is , I’d want to be best at all distances with putter. No player ever said “ man I wish I could trade 5 yards for 3-4 putts made a week. Nor have they said that they’d want to swap 3-4 putts for averaging 2 ft closer in proximity a week. 3-4 putts over 4 rounds is an attainable improvement for most. And I know has made the largest single improvement in my game. I’m averaging 28.4 as of the method reboot I made. From 33.2. Scoring average dropped 3 full shots over a month with no other changes.

>

> I won't argue about what has helped you succeed, but I go back to the OP. He assumes that somehow he'll get to PGA Tour putting ability from 10 feet and closer, and wonders how he can go from there into the 60s regularly. In my opinion, improvement on the shorter putts will almost certainly translate into improvement on longer putts as well. So the thing he has to do is to create more chances to make more putts, and his best avenue to create those chances is to hit the ball closer. As I said, improving from an average putter from 15-25 feet to become one of the best is likely to get him something like 1/2 stroke per round. That's not getting him into the 60s. Getting the ball closer is what he needs.

Probably true. I don’t know his other stats.

And I agree getting solid from 5 ft and In is first chore for sure. But after that , the mid and long range putting , be it makes or far fewer 3 putts is likely a good way to eek toward the 60s. Assuming he’s hitting it well enough for a 74ish scoring average before major putting improvement. Using round numbers of course based off my memory of my own stats at certain times.

> @tiger1873 said:

> So here is the thing I am noticing a lot people can easily sink putts inside of 10 feet. If you can sink 80%-85% from within 10 feet you will be able to make a ton a pars if you can hit the green. if you can not sink these putts breaking 80 is almost impossible because your going to 3 putting. A lot amateurs are here in how they play.

>

> Also how close do you think on average a player can reasonable get to the pin even with great iron shots? Looking at the stats 15' average seems almost too good. So taking that into account anything closer to 10 feet can just be attributed to random luck.

>

> It's not that you have to be great at 15 or 20 foot putts it's just you have to at least make some. Looking at pga pro stats I am seeing they make anywhere from 20-30% so on 18 holes (taking an average from pin distance) there making 3-6 birdies a round. Most amateurs probably are lucky to make 1 long putt every 18 holes.

>

>

People don't easily sink putts inside 10-feet. From 10-foot exactly, the average Tour player makes them 38% of the time. From 7-feet 10-inches, they make the putts 50% of the time. From 3-5 feet they are making those about 87% of the time. Sometimes you'll read stats like 'Player X has made 93% of all putts from inside 10-feet' or something like that, but that is taking ALL putts from inside 10-feet which includes tap-ins. That doesn't exactly measure their ability to make putts inside 10-feet.

You can easily break 80 without sinking putts inside 10-feet (unless you're literally missing everything inside 10-feet). Inside 3-feet even amateurs make those putts almost all of the time. For Tour players they are at 98% from 2-feet, 99% from 1-foot, etc. And most golfers can get a high percentage of their first putts within 3-feet. But, it's more about deviation in score. Lower handicaps tend to make more of these putts from 3-15 feet than higher handicaps. That can't be said for putts outside 15-feet as that's where putting starts to become more about luck and randomness than actual skill. The same goes for when you putt your best or shoot lower than normal scores...the putting is likely to improve from inside 15-feet due to skill having a greater influence on performance than say on putts from 20-40 feet.

For Tour players, their average proximity to the cup on approach shots from 80-200 yards from the fairway or par-3 tee box is roughly 6% of their approach shot distance to the hole (Dr. Mark Broadie has coined this as 'Fractional Remaining Length').

Let's say the average Tour player is 100-yards to the hole from the fairway (300 feet). On average they will hit that shot to roughly 18-feet to the hole (18 / 300 = 6%).

Golf course designers set up courses where the length of the approach shot is longest on the par-3's. The tee boxes are flat which makes it easier for players to hit the shot to the hole. To offset the reduced difficulty from the flat, tee box lie, designers will make the par-3's longer than the average approach shot on the par-4's. That's why you may only see 5-10 players on Tour that play par-3's under par for the season.

So a much higher percentage of birdies come off the par-5's. Then the par-4's is where they have more opportunities to make birdies given there are usually around 10 par-4's in an 18-hole course. The birdies usually come from better than average approach shots or that putt or two that they make outside of 15-feet.

Basically, putting helps most with quick improvements to high handicaps and assisting in shooting personal bests and/or going really low. For amateurs, they need to extend their putting performance to 3-15 feet because they and their competitors are more likely to miss a greater amount of putts from 3-5 feet unlike Tour pros. For Tour pros, they make a higher percentage of par or worse putts than they make birdie putts. But, all my research shows that for Tour players putting from 5-15 feet helps them make more birdies and from 3-5 feet helps them save more pars and avoid 3-putts.

RH

I'm just saying, I think all of my rounds in the 60's, playing on a Par 72 have been a combination of a good day ball striking, putting and chipping. It was a combination of hitting a few 10+ footers in, but also hitting a bunch in that 8' or less range, where I am always thinking make. Shooting in the 60's takes birdies, more than 1-2, so you need to be hitting the ball inside of 10' in my opinion. No - I'm not a tour player, so these types of days are not the norm for me.

Now I've had some rounds in the 70 or 71 range, that was a poor ball striking day. And my short game really helped put a good score. This type of day, I might of hit 3 or more at beyond 12' in putts. And also had great recovery shots and good chipping to make Par saves too.

Numbers and stats are great. But in the end, they are just numbers. You can't look at one statistical column and say, I'm going to get at that level and it will get me in the 60's. As all the other users are saying, it's a combination of all parts of the game to get in the 60's.

> @larrybud said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > If you're not inside 10 feet and laying 3 of all the par 6s, your gonna struggle to break 70. Thateans you either got there by missing the eagle putt or getting there from short of the green. On par 4s with wedge in hand you can easily be within 20 feet. birdies n anything else is just gravy.

>

> "easily be within 20 feet".

>

> yeah, you'd be in the top 100 *of the world*

>

> https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.074.2019.html

>

> c'mon, let's deal with reality.

I don't think it's out of line to expect a high level am to stick a few approaches inside 20ft through out a round, that is different expecting all approached to avg inside 20ft.

With wedges, not through the bag

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> With wedges, not through the bag

The stat he was quoting was average proximity for shots from 100 to 125 yards. Number 100 on that list from 2019 was at 20'. The absolute best average was still over 15 feet. With wedges. And 125 isn't even a full pitching wedge for any of these guys, the numbers would probably be worse if you go up to 140 or longer. Its just not easy to be within 20 feet with a wedge, you have to be dang good.

I was thinking more along the lines of inside 100 yards. On tour you have to be 174th to average 20 feet or worse.