Handicap to play blades?

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  • chisagchisag  3103Members Posts: 3,103
    Joined:  #182

    @Fairway14 said:

    @chisag said:

    ... It is unique to WRX that so many think anyone can play MB's effectively and one of the reasons these threads can be so contentious.

    Have you considered that some high handicap and, or, beginner players (for whatever reason), might be able to swing and square at impact a relatively small iron head more consistently than a large iron head ?

    ... If that were true, we would still be playing 300cc drivers. So I do not subscribe to that theory, but even if I did there are plenty of small headed more forgiving players irons available. My P760's have smaller heads than my Z Forged irons.

    Posted:
    Cobra F9 Tour Length ... Tensei Orange 65s
    Cobra F9 15.5* ... Atmos Blue TS 75s
    Cobra F8 18.5* ... Even Flow Blue 75s
    TaylorMade GAPR Mid ... KBS 80Hys
    TaylorMade UDi 18* TP 2 iron... Kuro Kage Black 90Hys
    4-pw TaylorMade P760/90 ... Recoil Prototype 95's
    SM6 52* F Grind /SM7 D Grind 58* ... Recoil 110s
    Bobby Grace 6330 ... 33.5"
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  • lawsonmanlawsonman Freeport, Illinois 5755Members Posts: 5,755
    Joined:  #183

    I should have said it's just been my experience .

    Posted:
    Ping G400 driver
    Ping Anser 17,20,23 Hybrids
    Ping G410 6-UW Irons ( Next Season ? )
    Ping 54WS,58ES Wedges
    Scotty Cameron Newport 3


    Snell MTB X
  • Fairway14Fairway14  257Members Posts: 257
    Joined:  #184

    @chisag said:

    @Fairway14 said:

    @chisag said:

    ... It is unique to WRX that so many think anyone can play MB's effectively and one of the reasons these threads can be so contentious.

    Have you considered that some high handicap and, or, beginner players (for whatever reason), might be able to swing and square at impact a relatively small iron head more consistently than a large iron head ?

    ... If that were true, we would still be playing 300cc drivers. So I do not subscribe to that theory, but even if I did there are plenty of small headed more forgiving players irons available. My P760's have smaller heads than my Z Forged irons.

    Most people would agree that an 800CC driver would be too large to swing effectively and, or, square the head at impact. You're right a 300CC size driver may not be optimal, and perhaps the current standard of 450CC to 460CC is just about perfect. My point isthat it is possible for a club head to become so large that swinging it is counter productive.
    I think iron head sizes may have become a bit too large, especially for playing from sloped or other less than ideal lies. My perspective is that the ideal "forgiving iron" design is probably a relatively small head with a deep cavity and significant perimeter weighting.

    Posted:
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USA 6764Members Posts: 6,764
    Joined:  #185

    @Fairway14 said:

    @chisag said:

    @Fairway14 said:

    @chisag said:

    ... It is unique to WRX that so many think anyone can play MB's effectively and one of the reasons these threads can be so contentious.

    Have you considered that some high handicap and, or, beginner players (for whatever reason), might be able to swing and square at impact a relatively small iron head more consistently than a large iron head ?

    ... If that were true, we would still be playing 300cc drivers. So I do not subscribe to that theory, but even if I did there are plenty of small headed more forgiving players irons available. My P760's have smaller heads than my Z Forged irons.

    Most people would agree that an 800CC driver would be too large to swing effectively and, or, square the head at impact. You're right a 300CC size driver may not be optimal, and perhaps the current standard of 450CC to 460CC is just about perfect. My point isthat it is possible for a club head to become so large that swinging it is counter productive.
    I think iron head sizes may have become a bit too large, especially for playing from sloped or other less than ideal lies. My perspective is that the ideal "forgiving iron" design is probably a relatively small head with a deep cavity and significant perimeter weighting.

    I think 300cc isn't a good analogy, it's too large a difference between that and 460cc. IMHO of course. :)

    If this was discussing 350-360cc, it might be a more interesting point, and I'd say then that it's largely marketing. Obviously you can do more with 460cc than 360cc, but I don't know that there are that many options beyond the realistic level of a 360cc clubhead, when one factors all the variables. Tom Wishon has talked about this a bit in the past...

    Posted:
    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: TM R11s, SK Fiber Tour Trac 100 X, 43.25"
    3w:  Cobra King LTD, Tour Blue 85 S
    3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, DGS400
    3-PW:  Mizuno MP-37, DGS300
    GW:  Dynacraft forged 52*, DGS400
    SW:  Wilson Staff PMP 58*
    Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane/Professional, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time

    I've proven once again that anything over 44.5" or even 44.25" is a horrible fit for my tee game
  • lawsonmanlawsonman Freeport, Illinois 5755Members Posts: 5,755
    Joined:  #186

    Man, when drivers got to be 350cc I didn't think they could make them any bigger.

    Posted:
    Ping G400 driver
    Ping Anser 17,20,23 Hybrids
    Ping G410 6-UW Irons ( Next Season ? )
    Ping 54WS,58ES Wedges
    Scotty Cameron Newport 3


    Snell MTB X
  • chisagchisag  3103Members Posts: 3,103
    Joined:  edited Nov 8, 2019 6:14pm #187

    @lawsonman said:
    Man, when drivers got to be 350cc I didn't think they could make them any bigger.

    ... I narrated the sales video for the original Wilson Whale driver that was well below 350cc's. I told the CEO that I know you have done some market research and I am sure you know what you are doing but this thing will never sell to real players. It is just waaaay to big to be taken seriously. LOL!

    Posted:
    Cobra F9 Tour Length ... Tensei Orange 65s
    Cobra F9 15.5* ... Atmos Blue TS 75s
    Cobra F8 18.5* ... Even Flow Blue 75s
    TaylorMade GAPR Mid ... KBS 80Hys
    TaylorMade UDi 18* TP 2 iron... Kuro Kage Black 90Hys
    4-pw TaylorMade P760/90 ... Recoil Prototype 95's
    SM6 52* F Grind /SM7 D Grind 58* ... Recoil 110s
    Bobby Grace 6330 ... 33.5"
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  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Allez Allez Allez Minnesota, USA 6764Members Posts: 6,764
    Joined:  #188

    @chisag said:

    @lawsonman said:
    Man, when drivers got to be 350cc I didn't think they could make them any bigger.

    ... I narrated the sales video for the original Wilson Whale driver that was well below 350cc's. I told the CEO that I know you have done some market research and I am sure you know what you are doing but this thing will never sell to real players. It is just waaaay to big to be taken seriously. LOL!

    Remember the Integra 400? LOL

    I was playing a 230cc driver at the time. That 400 was like the Death Star.

    Posted:
    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: TM R11s, SK Fiber Tour Trac 100 X, 43.25"
    3w:  Cobra King LTD, Tour Blue 85 S
    3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, DGS400
    3-PW:  Mizuno MP-37, DGS300
    GW:  Dynacraft forged 52*, DGS400
    SW:  Wilson Staff PMP 58*
    Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane/Professional, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar, Snell MTB Black... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time

    I've proven once again that anything over 44.5" or even 44.25" is a horrible fit for my tee game
  • balls_deepballs_deep Wanna earn 14 bucks the hard way? 1528Members Posts: 1,528
    Joined:  #189

    @Fairway14 said:

    @chisag said:

    ... It is unique to WRX that so many think anyone can play MB's effectively and one of the reasons these threads can be so contentious.

    Have you considered that some high handicap and, or, beginner players (for whatever reason), might be able to swing and square at impact a relatively small iron head more consistently than a large iron head ?

    Why on earth do you keep trying to make this point? It does not need to be shovels vs blades. A titleist CB or AP2 is a much smaller footprint than a Z forged or even an MP20 MB. It doesn’t need to be a G series shovel man.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 8.5° Project X Evenflow White 6.5x 62g
    Titleist 917F2 15.75°  Project X HZRDUS Handcrafted Black 6.0 75g
    Titleist 818 H1 19° Project X HZRDUS Handcrafted Black 6.0 85g
    Srixon z785 4-PW Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
    Vokey SM7 52F 56F 60D Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400
    Scotty Cameron Futura 5.5M 35"
    Pro V1x/Snell MTB-X
    Currently - 5.6


  • Vanhalen5150iiVanhalen5150ii  7Members Posts: 7
    Joined:  #190

    I’m an 8 and use 3-P 718 MBs. Nothing beats the feel!

    Posted:
  • Fairway14Fairway14  257Members Posts: 257
    Joined:  #191

    @balls_deep said:

    @Fairway14 said:

    @chisag said:

    ... It is unique to WRX that so many think anyone can play MB's effectively and one of the reasons these threads can be so contentious.

    Have you considered that some high handicap and, or, beginner players (for whatever reason), might be able to swing and square at impact a relatively small iron head more consistently than a large iron head ?

    Why on earth do you keep trying to make this point? It does not need to be shovels vs blades. A titleist CB or AP2 is a much smaller footprint than a Z forged or even an MP20 MB. It doesn’t need to be a G series shovel man.

    My point is that head size matters. Titleist CB is a relatively small head, and if the company offered deeper cavity back version of its existing CB model (but maintained the same heel-to-toe and sole-to-topline head size, it might be popular with all skill levels , from beginner to Tour pro. The AP2 model is an oversize head, not as large as some models but still so large that some players might find it challenging to square at impact as consistently as they might a smaller head size.
    Basically, I don't think "MB vs CB" matters as much as does head size. As iron heads have become larger and larger (whether they be MB or CB), I've noticed some players are not able to square them at impact as consistently or easily as they can a smaller head size.

    Posted:
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6045Members Posts: 6,045
    Joined:  #192

    @Nard_S said:

    @nsxguy said:

    @Pepperturbo said:

    @mschantz said:

    @jamieholo said:
    personal opinion here.. not necessarily a handicap but more so ball striking ability. i think you have to look at it another way.. how many times a round does playing not a blade HURT you. if those are the conversations you are having you are ready to play a blade and BENEFIT from it. how often do you have to shape a ball around a tree to get you 50 yards closer to the hole or on the green to save you a stroke. and do you have the ability to hit that shot. how often do you hit a pure 6 iron out of the rough that knuckles and flies the green 20 yards. again do you have that shot. how often are you pinched under a tree and have to a stinger 180 yards up the fairway that you can't keep down because you are hitting a more forgiving club. notice the pattern.. do you have that shot. are you hitting the ball pure enough every time to notice that you hit the ball half a dime high, the ball finds the 'hot spot' and knuckles and flies the green and hurts you. do you hit the ball straight enough that you would rather leave the ball 10 yards short of the green but closer to the line of target over a ball thats pin high but 10 yards wayward. and ill admit that a CB to an MB probably isn't noticeably different to an amateur trying to hit SHOTS.
    other option. do you like the look? are you happy enough with where the ball ends up for the swing you think you made? if the answer is yes. HIT EM!

    Let me add to this. **All of the shots you mentioned can be made by both types of the clubs in the hands of good players, but many of them are very low percentage shots for even the best players. **I never take low percentage shots because in my case they usually worsen the problem and end up costing more strokes than putting the ball back in play with a high percentage shot. If you're a pro trying to earn a living, it's a different calculation.

    I totally get your point. I benefit from blades because I make better golf shots and score better with them. It's that simple. I probably make better golf shots with them because learning to hit them improved my game quite a bit. There's no mystery there. But for me it took LOT of work that needs constant reinforcement.

    The same can be said for cars and track experienced drivers. All cars get the driver from point A to B and a good driver can drive both. However, someone that wants to be a skilled driver will choose the vehicle that's designed for high-speed track driving and drifting.

    That's an excellent point Pepper but you didn't finish the thought.

    Not every driver that WANTS to drive that track car is ABLE to drive that track car. Only the MOST HIGHLY SKILLED drivers can handle that track car.

    So yes, the comparison of driving the track car to playing blades is actually a pretty good one.

    So track cars or even just high performance autos are over the head of most drivers. And....so what. Does not mean they are not enjoyable. Same with golf gear that's "over the head". For every duffer bagging blades there's hundreds if not thousands bagging tour level shafts or low spin bombing drivers or fancy 3 wedge setups and yet all those are over the head too.

    To be a dude in this game now, you need to drop coin on fancy irons, coin on 3 wedges because those fancy clubs are useless below 150 yards and then blend in hybrids on long end too. So you now have three specialized clubs with completely different profile's of heads and shafts to replace what was once a coherent and well blended set. Three clubs to master vs one. That's rational. And guy with $300 Hogan's or even $1300 Mizuno's in his bag is the crazy one. Crazy works for me.

    Yes, those cars ARE over the head of most drivers.

    So what ? So nothing. Do what you want, I don't care. I've always said guys should play whatever they like for whatever reasons they like. No skin of my nose. But if you're not a real player you're not getting the most out of your blades. It's really just that simple.

    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6045Members Posts: 6,045
    Joined:  #193

    @bradleybusch92 said:

    @nsxguy said:

    @herbert7890 said:
    This video just released by the guys at TXG can bring some context into this topic. This case was an 8 handicap golfer, who actually got more forgiveness, consistency and distance from a blade (MP-20 MBs) compared to the wider soles 919, etc. ** On this case it seemed the turf interaction was much better with the blade, which helped with his fat shots tendencies (blades cut through the turf better) so he wasnt losing much distance with the blades compared to GI irons**. In addition, they discussed the fact that a good chunk of golfers seems to have less toe down position at impact with blades vs larger sole irons, again improving their strike. All of us here should watch this full video and learn a bit from one of the best fitters in the world.

    >

    I just love how much I learn on this site.

    So the thinner blade, usually with a sharper leading edge, with less bounce hits the ground first and somehow powers through the ground and into the back of the ball for less distance loss ?

    And the GI iron, usually with a more rounded leading edge and more bounce, you know, to bounce off the ground INTO the back of the ball, loses more distance.

    Interesting how that works.

    So much about this game seems to be counter-intuitive it's amazing we can get it airborne,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    As a not great golfer by any means, (I have been playing for less than a year and I shoot around 100), I have experienced that GI irons with the rounded leading edge and more bounce do not necessarily help me strike the ball.

    The first set of clubs I picked up were a set of Nike Ignite irons. They did fine for me at first before I really developed a consistent swing, but then I started realizing I could hit my secondhand Vokeys great all the time on full shots, and if there was any sogginess to the ground at all, that "bounce off the ground" became a topped shot that rolled out to around thirteen feet.

    I had a set of antique looking blades that I found in an attic, so I started playing around with hitting shots with the 6 iron. I could hit this thing awesome.

    I started looking, and found a set of Mizuno MP-33's for $120, and picked them up. 2-P. I have been gaming these for a couple months now and playing twice a week with some range time mixed in there. My scores have fallen off 0% by playing the blades, and by the way, I even hit the 2 iron pretty well off the tee. Weirdly also, I actually hit these clubs FURTHER than the GI's. Like 8 or so yards further each club. Mishits do go shorter than perfect strikes, but my mishits are like fell 10 yards in front of the green short, not duffed for a 3 foot roller mishits. Also, if I hit the shot off the toe some, I would a lot of times not rather send that offline toe shot 180 yards into the weeds like you do with a GI. I'm also learning what shots feel like when they're not in the sweet spot.

    Now, in conclusion, do I think 18 year old blades that I bought off Facebook Marketplace are the best club for me? No, by all means. But I do know on the days that I couldn't strike my GI clubs, I can strike these, and it's a lot less frustrating. You could fit me perfect for some irons right now and I guarantee I'd still shoot 100. I still have several beginner duffer style circus mishits each round that you look around to make sure no one saw, that no amount of super duper double throwdown game improvement could help. So now when I decide to get fitted someday when I can actually play a decent full round of golf, I'll have some characteristics in mind of clubs to test out. And in the meantime, I enjoy golf a lot more than I did with the clubs that didn't work well for me, and it cannot in any way be a bad thing to be practicing with clubs that are "hard" to hit. I will admit, that 2 iron is pretty tiny.

    The sogginess of the ground, that you presumably hit behind the ball, caused a TOPPED shot ?

    Sorry dude, you lost me there,,,,,,,,,,,, so I didn't read the rest. Again, play whatever you like for whatever reasons you like,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6045Members Posts: 6,045
    Joined:  #194

    @lawsonman said:
    Here's my problem with the whole blade debates we have around here. There is so much more to getting from the tee to the green than just the help from perimeter weighting. The foregiveness of my G410's is second to none. At age 67 my handicap is the lowest it's been in years at a 9. But a couple parts of my game that suffered the most was my proximity to the pin on shots inside 100 yards and my chipping. Those 30,40,50 yard shots with my 410's are not good compared to a iron with a narrow sole. Touch shots are so much easier with a blade. I don't play long golf courses anymore so most of my second shots on par 4's are usually between 90-160 yards. I maintain anyone that plays once a week with a little practice thrown in can play any blade they want to play from at least the 7 on down and they may play better because of the superior turf interaction of blades and narrow soled cb's. I'm sure someone will come on here and post that I'm full of crap but this has been my experience.

    Well, we all have our opinions.

    Blade wedges are almost a given. Who makes a premium CB wedge ? Ping (Glide) and Cleveland CBX. And they also make blade wedges as well. I believe your Pings are CB, yes ?

    Point is, yes, I agree that touch/partial shots are easier with a blade. But wedges have short shafts. Shorter plays stiffer and one is not taking nearly as long a swing (as with the 5 iron) and the center of the face becomes far easier to "find".

    You say 7-PW is OK with a blade ? So why are your 6-UW 410s ? Or don't you play at least once a week and practice a little ?

    Why is turf interaction "superior" with blades ? And doesn't turf interaction depend AT LEAST as much on one's swing as the clubs one is swinging with ?

    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and Southwest 16049Members Posts: 16,049
    Joined:  edited Nov 8, 2019 9:13pm #195

    @nsxguy said:

    @Pepperturbo said:

    @mschantz said:

    @jamieholo said:
    personal opinion here.. not necessarily a handicap but more so ball striking ability. i think you have to look at it another way.. how many times a round does playing not a blade HURT you. if those are the conversations you are having you are ready to play a blade and BENEFIT from it. how often do you have to shape a ball around a tree to get you 50 yards closer to the hole or on the green to save you a stroke. and do you have the ability to hit that shot. how often do you hit a pure 6 iron out of the rough that knuckles and flies the green 20 yards. again do you have that shot. how often are you pinched under a tree and have to a stinger 180 yards up the fairway that you can't keep down because you are hitting a more forgiving club. notice the pattern.. do you have that shot. are you hitting the ball pure enough every time to notice that you hit the ball half a dime high, the ball finds the 'hot spot' and knuckles and flies the green and hurts you. do you hit the ball straight enough that you would rather leave the ball 10 yards short of the green but closer to the line of target over a ball thats pin high but 10 yards wayward. and ill admit that a CB to an MB probably isn't noticeably different to an amateur trying to hit SHOTS.
    other option. do you like the look? are you happy enough with where the ball ends up for the swing you think you made? if the answer is yes. HIT EM!

    Let me add to this. **All of the shots you mentioned can be made by both types of the clubs in the hands of good players, but many of them are very low percentage shots for even the best players. **I never take low percentage shots because in my case they usually worsen the problem and end up costing more strokes than putting the ball back in play with a high percentage shot. If you're a pro trying to earn a living, it's a different calculation.

    I totally get your point. I benefit from blades because I make better golf shots and score better with them. It's that simple. I probably make better golf shots with them because learning to hit them improved my game quite a bit. There's no mystery there. But for me it took LOT of work that needs constant reinforcement.

    The same can be said for cars and track experienced drivers. All cars get the driver from point A to B and a good driver can drive both. However, someone that wants to be a skilled driver will choose the vehicle that's designed for high-speed track driving and drifting.

    That's an excellent point Pepper but you didn't finish the thought.

    Not every driver that WANTS to drive that track car is ABLE to drive that track car. Only the MOST HIGHLY SKILLED drivers can handle that track car.

    So yes, the comparison of driving the track car to playing blades is actually a pretty good one.

    Au con·traire.. anyone that is licensed to drive any can drive a 190+ mph Porsche GT3-RS track car that weighs 2950lbs; making it's comparable to playing blades. The difference lies in unknown attention to detail.

    In racing school, everyone was talking big speed smack before class. During the first-class, our instructor told us that many will not reach their anticipated speed and drop out. He didn't' say why. Everyone looked at each other and said won't be me. LOL What most were not aware of is their fantasy about speed was one dimensional or here blades, doesn't include the influence of G-force and adrenaline on the body at speeds in excess of 130mph, much less 150+mph in a 2950lb light car with lots of HP/torque that requires a skilled touch and tenacity to overcome. Nobody knows how they will react to the demands and challenges till behind the wheel and find their speed wall that says NO more and quickly backs off the accelerator. Most of the people in our class never made it past 120mph. Only a few of us went passed 175mph like only a sliver of us know the joy of MB blades.

    My only annoyance is people that using blind fantasy jump into something only to later quit or give up on themselves, are the ones that often poo-poo 175mph speed and MB blades to others.

    Posted:
    • Titleist TS2 9.5, PX HZRDUS Red 65 6.0
    • Titleist 917D2 15*, Aldila Rogue MAX 75 "S"
    • Titleist T-MB 17* 2 iron, PXi 6.0
    • Titleist 620 MB/CB 3i-PW, PX LZ
    • SM6 F-52*, PX LZ
    • SM6 M-58*, DG-S200
    • SC California Monterey
    • ProV1x








  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and Southwest 16049Members Posts: 16,049
    Joined:  #196

    @Fairway14 said:

    @chisag said:

    ... It is unique to WRX that so many think anyone can play MB's effectively and one of the reasons these threads can be so contentious.

    Have you considered that some high handicap and, or, beginner players (for whatever reason), might be able to swing and square at impact a relatively small iron head more consistently than a large iron head ?

    Yes, there are a few people that may find starting out swinging a blade is easier than a larger head but that doesn't tell the whole story behind what's needed to actually play good golf under pressure with blades. Yep, as I said above, anyone they can drive a Porsche GT3-RS to the grocery store but what's behind driving that car on a track at speed is all-together different.

    Posted:
    • Titleist TS2 9.5, PX HZRDUS Red 65 6.0
    • Titleist 917D2 15*, Aldila Rogue MAX 75 "S"
    • Titleist T-MB 17* 2 iron, PXi 6.0
    • Titleist 620 MB/CB 3i-PW, PX LZ
    • SM6 F-52*, PX LZ
    • SM6 M-58*, DG-S200
    • SC California Monterey
    • ProV1x








  • lawsonmanlawsonman Freeport, Illinois 5755Members Posts: 5,755
    Joined:  #197

    @nsxguy said:

    @lawsonman said:
    Here's my problem with the whole blade debates we have around here. There is so much more to getting from the tee to the green than just the help from perimeter weighting. The foregiveness of my G410's is second to none. At age 67 my handicap is the lowest it's been in years at a 9. But a couple parts of my game that suffered the most was my proximity to the pin on shots inside 100 yards and my chipping. Those 30,40,50 yard shots with my 410's are not good compared to a iron with a narrow sole. Touch shots are so much easier with a blade. I don't play long golf courses anymore so most of my second shots on par 4's are usually between 90-160 yards. I maintain anyone that plays once a week with a little practice thrown in can play any blade they want to play from at least the 7 on down and they may play better because of the superior turf interaction of blades and narrow soled cb's. I'm sure someone will come on here and post that I'm full of crap but this has been my experience.

    Well, we all have our opinions.

    You say 7-PW is OK with a blade ? So why are your 6-UW 410s ? Or don't you play at least once a week and practice a little ?

    Why is turf interaction "superior" with blades ? And doesn't turf interaction depend AT LEAST as much on one's swing as the clubs one is swinging with ?

    I played the 410's this year because at 67 years old I had hoped picking up a little distance would help me out a bit. They did help with distance but as I explained in my post my short game took a dive. It might be in my head but my short game drastically improves with a more narrow sole. Just my opinion for my game. And I usually play twice a week and throw in some practice time also.

    Posted:
    Ping G400 driver
    Ping Anser 17,20,23 Hybrids
    Ping G410 6-UW Irons ( Next Season ? )
    Ping 54WS,58ES Wedges
    Scotty Cameron Newport 3


    Snell MTB X
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6045Members Posts: 6,045
    Joined:  #198

    @Pepperturbo said:

    @nsxguy said:

    @Pepperturbo said:

    @mschantz said:

    @jamieholo said:
    personal opinion here.. not necessarily a handicap but more so ball striking ability. i think you have to look at it another way.. how many times a round does playing not a blade HURT you. if those are the conversations you are having you are ready to play a blade and BENEFIT from it. how often do you have to shape a ball around a tree to get you 50 yards closer to the hole or on the green to save you a stroke. and do you have the ability to hit that shot. how often do you hit a pure 6 iron out of the rough that knuckles and flies the green 20 yards. again do you have that shot. how often are you pinched under a tree and have to a stinger 180 yards up the fairway that you can't keep down because you are hitting a more forgiving club. notice the pattern.. do you have that shot. are you hitting the ball pure enough every time to notice that you hit the ball half a dime high, the ball finds the 'hot spot' and knuckles and flies the green and hurts you. do you hit the ball straight enough that you would rather leave the ball 10 yards short of the green but closer to the line of target over a ball thats pin high but 10 yards wayward. and ill admit that a CB to an MB probably isn't noticeably different to an amateur trying to hit SHOTS.
    other option. do you like the look? are you happy enough with where the ball ends up for the swing you think you made? if the answer is yes. HIT EM!

    Let me add to this. **All of the shots you mentioned can be made by both types of the clubs in the hands of good players, but many of them are very low percentage shots for even the best players. **I never take low percentage shots because in my case they usually worsen the problem and end up costing more strokes than putting the ball back in play with a high percentage shot. If you're a pro trying to earn a living, it's a different calculation.

    I totally get your point. I benefit from blades because I make better golf shots and score better with them. It's that simple. I probably make better golf shots with them because learning to hit them improved my game quite a bit. There's no mystery there. But for me it took LOT of work that needs constant reinforcement.

    The same can be said for cars and track experienced drivers. All cars get the driver from point A to B and a good driver can drive both. However, someone that wants to be a skilled driver will choose the vehicle that's designed for high-speed track driving and drifting.

    That's an excellent point Pepper but you didn't finish the thought.

    Not every driver that WANTS to drive that track car is ABLE to drive that track car. Only the MOST HIGHLY SKILLED drivers can handle that track car.

    So yes, the comparison of driving the track car to playing blades is actually a pretty good one.

    Au con·traire.. anyone that is licensed to drive any can drive a 190+ mph Porsche GT3-RS track car that weighs 2950lbs; making it's comparable to playing blades. The difference lies in unknown attention to detail.

    In racing school, everyone was talking big speed smack before class. During the first-class, our instructor told us that many will not reach their anticipated speed and drop out. He didn't' say why. Everyone looked at each other and said won't be me. LOL What most were not aware of is their fantasy about speed was one dimensional or here blades, doesn't include the influence of G-force and adrenaline on the body at speeds in excess of 130mph, much less 150+mph in a 2950lb light car with lots of HP/torque that requires a skilled touch and tenacity to overcome. Nobody knows how they will react to the demands and challenges till behind the wheel and find their speed wall that says NO more and quickly backs off the accelerator. Most of the people in our class never made it past 120mph. Only a few of us went passed 175mph like only a sliver of us know the joy of MB blades.

    My only annoyance is people that using blind fantasy jump into something only to later quit or give up on themselves, are the ones that often poo-poo 175mph speed and MB blades to others.

    What ARE you talking about ?

    In one breath you say "anyone that is licensed to drive any can drive a 190+ mph Porsche GT3-RS track car that weighs 2950lbs; making it's comparable to playing blades.". So you're saying that they can afford, or they have the opportunity to drive 195 ? Geez, I never thought of THAT. LMAO

    But a bright guy like yourself should know that isn't what was meant.

    So you think that is "comparable ? Just because one has the opportunity ? LMAO

    The point isn't having the opportunity to do so, the point is not being ABLE to do so; not being able to HANDLE it/them. Being able to use the product to the best of its, and your, ability.

    You say yourself "Most of the people in our class never made it past 120mph." So obviously "anybody" couldn't handle 195 around a track.

    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6045Members Posts: 6,045
    Joined:  #199

    @lawsonman said:

    @nsxguy said:

    @lawsonman said:
    Here's my problem with the whole blade debates we have around here. There is so much more to getting from the tee to the green than just the help from perimeter weighting. The foregiveness of my G410's is second to none. At age 67 my handicap is the lowest it's been in years at a 9. But a couple parts of my game that suffered the most was my proximity to the pin on shots inside 100 yards and my chipping. Those 30,40,50 yard shots with my 410's are not good compared to a iron with a narrow sole. Touch shots are so much easier with a blade. I don't play long golf courses anymore so most of my second shots on par 4's are usually between 90-160 yards. I maintain anyone that plays once a week with a little practice thrown in can play any blade they want to play from at least the 7 on down and they may play better because of the superior turf interaction of blades and narrow soled cb's. I'm sure someone will come on here and post that I'm full of crap but this has been my experience.

    Well, we all have our opinions.

    You say 7-PW is OK with a blade ? So why are your 6-UW 410s ? Or don't you play at least once a week and practice a little ?

    Why is turf interaction "superior" with blades ? And doesn't turf interaction depend AT LEAST as much on one's swing as the clubs one is swinging with ?

    I played the 410's this year because at 67 years old I had hoped picking up a little distance would help me out a bit. They did help with distance but as I explained in my post my short game took a dive. It might be in my head but my short game drastically improves with a more narrow sole. Just my opinion for my game. And I usually play twice a week and throw in some practice time also.

    The distance you picked up (over blades ?) is likely due (mostly) to stronger lofts.

    If your handicap is the lowest it's been in years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and meanwhile your short game "took a dive",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what is a likely conclusion ???

    And sure, by all means, give the blade type wedges a try. I've got GI irons and premium blade type wedges. I agree(d) with you. Bladed wedges are better.

    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • MikepaulMikepaul  554Members Posts: 554
    Joined:  #200

    If you can find the centre of the face with regularity you can play blades, shafts can compensate for lower swing speed (ie 80mph) . In addition, unless you like to shape, left right, high/low straight, left and right - don’t play blades. Large Cavity back irons can produce straight shots.

    I don’t use handicap as a reference to play blades because some Mid-handicappers are flushers but are diabolical at chip and putt activities . If Shane lowery played these shots on their behalf they would play off scratch. I recently played wit a 13 handicap who carries his driver 320 with ease, flushes irons but is petrified of a 2 foot put. Yes plays blades and they suit him.

    Posted:
  • lawsonmanlawsonman Freeport, Illinois 5755Members Posts: 5,755
    Joined:  #201

    @nsxguy said:

    @lawsonman said:

    @nsxguy said:

    @lawsonman said:
    Here's my problem with the whole blade debates we have around here. There is so much more to getting from the tee to the green than just the help from perimeter weighting. The foregiveness of my G410's is second to none. At age 67 my handicap is the lowest it's been in years at a 9. But a couple parts of my game that suffered the most was my proximity to the pin on shots inside 100 yards and my chipping. Those 30,40,50 yard shots with my 410's are not good compared to a iron with a narrow sole. Touch shots are so much easier with a blade. I don't play long golf courses anymore so most of my second shots on par 4's are usually between 90-160 yards. I maintain anyone that plays once a week with a little practice thrown in can play any blade they want to play from at least the 7 on down and they may play better because of the superior turf interaction of blades and narrow soled cb's. I'm sure someone will come on here and post that I'm full of crap but this has been my experience.

    Well, we all have our opinions.

    You say 7-PW is OK with a blade ? So why are your 6-UW 410s ? Or don't you play at least once a week and practice a little ?

    Why is turf interaction "superior" with blades ? And doesn't turf interaction depend AT LEAST as much on one's swing as the clubs one is swinging with ?

    I played the 410's this year because at 67 years old I had hoped picking up a little distance would help me out a bit. They did help with distance but as I explained in my post my short game took a dive. It might be in my head but my short game drastically improves with a more narrow sole. Just my opinion for my game. And I usually play twice a week and throw in some practice time also.

    The distance you picked up (over blades ?) is likely due (mostly) to stronger lofts.

    If your handicap is the lowest it's been in years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and meanwhile your short game "took a dive",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what is a likely conclusion ???

    And sure, by all means, give the blade type wedges a try. I've got GI irons and premium blade type wedges. I agree(d) with you. Bladed wedges are better.

    The conclusion is I hit the fairway off the tee and switched to a claw grip and putted the **** out of the ball.

    Posted:
    Ping G400 driver
    Ping Anser 17,20,23 Hybrids
    Ping G410 6-UW Irons ( Next Season ? )
    Ping 54WS,58ES Wedges
    Scotty Cameron Newport 3


    Snell MTB X
  • balls_deepballs_deep Wanna earn 14 bucks the hard way? 1528Members Posts: 1,528
    Joined:  #202

    @Mikepaul said:
    If you can find the centre of the face with regularity you can play blades, shafts can compensate for lower swing speed (ie 80mph) . In addition, unless you like to shape, left right, high/low straight, left and right - don’t play blades. Large Cavity back irons can produce straight shots.

    I don’t use handicap as a reference to play blades because some Mid-handicappers are flushers but are diabolical at chip and putt activities . If Shane lowery played these shots on their behalf they would play off scratch. I recently played wit a 13 handicap who carries his driver 320 with ease, flushes irons but is petrified of a 2 foot put. Yes plays blades and they suit him.

    If I had a dollar for every higher handicapper I’ve heard of on here who is a scratch level ball striker but doesn’t have a short game...

    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 8.5° Project X Evenflow White 6.5x 62g
    Titleist 917F2 15.75°  Project X HZRDUS Handcrafted Black 6.0 75g
    Titleist 818 H1 19° Project X HZRDUS Handcrafted Black 6.0 85g
    Srixon z785 4-PW Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
    Vokey SM7 52F 56F 60D Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400
    Scotty Cameron Futura 5.5M 35"
    Pro V1x/Snell MTB-X
    Currently - 5.6


  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • lawsonmanlawsonman Freeport, Illinois 5755Members Posts: 5,755
    Joined:  #203

    @balls_deep said:

    @Mikepaul said:
    If you can find the centre of the face with regularity you can play blades, shafts can compensate for lower swing speed (ie 80mph) . In addition, unless you like to shape, left right, high/low straight, left and right - don’t play blades. Large Cavity back irons can produce straight shots.

    I don’t use handicap as a reference to play blades because some Mid-handicappers are flushers but are diabolical at chip and putt activities . If Shane lowery played these shots on their behalf they would play off scratch. I recently played wit a 13 handicap who carries his driver 320 with ease, flushes irons but is petrified of a 2 foot put. Yes plays blades and they suit him.

    If I had a dollar for every higher handicapper I’ve heard of on here who is a scratch level ball striker but doesn’t have a short game...

    Same could be said for everyone who says they're 320 straight down the middle...😁

    Posted:
    Ping G400 driver
    Ping Anser 17,20,23 Hybrids
    Ping G410 6-UW Irons ( Next Season ? )
    Ping 54WS,58ES Wedges
    Scotty Cameron Newport 3


    Snell MTB X
  • chisagchisag  3103Members Posts: 3,103
    Joined:  #204

    @balls_deep said:

    @Mikepaul said:
    If you can find the centre of the face with regularity you can play blades, shafts can compensate for lower swing speed (ie 80mph) . In addition, unless you like to shape, left right, high/low straight, left and right - don’t play blades. Large Cavity back irons can produce straight shots.

    I don’t use handicap as a reference to play blades because some Mid-handicappers are flushers but are diabolical at chip and putt activities . If Shane lowery played these shots on their behalf they would play off scratch. I recently played wit a 13 handicap who carries his driver 320 with ease, flushes irons but is petrified of a 2 foot put. Yes plays blades and they suit him.

    If I had a dollar for every higher handicapper I’ve heard of on here who is a scratch level ball striker but doesn’t have a short game...

    ... True dat but you would not get my dollar! As a + index I am a good ball striker but not consider myself a great ball striker. Sure, on my good ball striking days I am hitting a ton of greens and putting for a lot of birdies but on my bad ball striking days, it is my short game that saves me. In my experience many 0/+ index players have absolutely stellar short games and are not necessarily great ball strikers. As someone that taught full time, it was much easier to improve a students short game than it was to turn them into great ball strikers. Being a great ball striker includes speed, power, touch and proper technique. Hitting a green from 195 with a 4 iron is not a skill most posses, but hitting a chip close can be mastered by anyone even with poor technique. There is a reason MB's account for only 1% of sales and most of those $1,000+ iron sets are not going to high index players with poor short games. On the other hand, wedges and putters are going out the door of every golf store with regularity.

    Posted:
    Cobra F9 Tour Length ... Tensei Orange 65s
    Cobra F9 15.5* ... Atmos Blue TS 75s
    Cobra F8 18.5* ... Even Flow Blue 75s
    TaylorMade GAPR Mid ... KBS 80Hys
    TaylorMade UDi 18* TP 2 iron... Kuro Kage Black 90Hys
    4-pw TaylorMade P760/90 ... Recoil Prototype 95's
    SM6 52* F Grind /SM7 D Grind 58* ... Recoil 110s
    Bobby Grace 6330 ... 33.5"
  • Bad9Bad9  4457Members Posts: 4,457
    Joined:  #205

    @lawsonman said:

    @balls_deep said:

    @Mikepaul said:
    If you can find the centre of the face with regularity you can play blades, shafts can compensate for lower swing speed (ie 80mph) . In addition, unless you like to shape, left right, high/low straight, left and right - don’t play blades. Large Cavity back irons can produce straight shots.

    I don’t use handicap as a reference to play blades because some Mid-handicappers are flushers but are diabolical at chip and putt activities . If Shane lowery played these shots on their behalf they would play off scratch. I recently played wit a 13 handicap who carries his driver 320 with ease, flushes irons but is petrified of a 2 foot put. Yes plays blades and they suit him.

    If I had a dollar for every higher handicapper I’ve heard of on here who is a scratch level ball striker but doesn’t have a short game...

    Same could be said for everyone who says they're 320 straight down the middle...😁

    I’m always amazed at the number of guys who can work the ball both what’s with any club on command.

    Posted:
    Ping G410 Plus 10.5°/Alta CB55 r flex
    Ping G400 7w/Alta CB r flex
    Ping G400 4h/Alta CB r flex
    Ping G400 5h/Alta CB r flex
    Ping IE1 6-U/CFS70 r flex
    Ping Glide 2.0 ES 58°/CFS70 r flex
    Mizuno Bettinardi C06
  • MikepaulMikepaul  554Members Posts: 554
    Joined:  #206

    Bad9 -that’s why I spend 4-5 a week on range range, I immensity enjoy practice. The hardest shot for me is the low fade, I mean very very low. Also, I spend 70% of my time on the short game, then 40 minutes on the putting. I hit to a number, and I’m not trying to complete with long hitters. The score doesn’t judge our height or strength, it measures our skill. I enjoy without judgement, watching others gain enjoyment from booming drives that would impress Rory , DJ etc, so what if they can’t score, they enjoy the game.

    Posted:
  • wfrogge1wfrogge1  1259Members Posts: 1,259
    Joined:  #207

    There is left and right face forgiveness that GI irons provide but it comes at a price of “front to back” forgiveness due to the wider soles. We all as golfers need to figure out where our gap is and what we need In an iron. As as example, TXG just did a YouTube episode where an older mid handicap had much better numbers with blades than GI irons.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • bvanlieubvanlieu  22Members Posts: 22
    Joined:  #208

    @Mikepaul said:
    Bad9 -that’s why I spend 4-5 a week on range range, I immensity enjoy practice. The hardest shot for me is the low fade, I mean very very low. Also, I spend 70% of my time on the short game, then 40 minutes on the putting. I hit to a number, and I’m not trying to complete with long hitters. The score doesn’t judge our height or strength, it measures our skill. I enjoy without judgement, watching others gain enjoyment from booming drives that would impress Rory , DJ etc, so what if they can’t score, they enjoy the game.

    Practice hitting off the hosel: guaranteed to produce low 'fades'.

    I agree with Chisag and personally can't recall playing with a sub 10 handicap with a horrific short game.

    Plenty of rounds for me this year my strike was up and down but short game made the card respectable. Then again, my best strike day with 15 GIR this year, I had 38 putts I believe (GIR 40' away is good for the stat but not always a 2 putt).

    Was not my low score of the year. Such is golf :D

    • b
    Posted:
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6045Members Posts: 6,045
    Joined:  edited Nov 11, 2019 7:26pm #209

    @lawsonman said:

    @nsxguy said:

    @lawsonman said:

    @nsxguy said:

    @lawsonman said:
    Here's my problem with the whole blade debates we have around here. There is so much more to getting from the tee to the green than just the help from perimeter weighting. The foregiveness of my G410's is second to none. At age 67 my handicap is the lowest it's been in years at a 9. But a couple parts of my game that suffered the most was my proximity to the pin on shots inside 100 yards and my chipping. Those 30,40,50 yard shots with my 410's are not good compared to a iron with a narrow sole. Touch shots are so much easier with a blade. I don't play long golf courses anymore so most of my second shots on par 4's are usually between 90-160 yards. I maintain anyone that plays once a week with a little practice thrown in can play any blade they want to play from at least the 7 on down and they may play better because of the superior turf interaction of blades and narrow soled cb's. I'm sure someone will come on here and post that I'm full of crap but this has been my experience.

    Well, we all have our opinions.

    You say 7-PW is OK with a blade ? So why are your 6-UW 410s ? Or don't you play at least once a week and practice a little ?

    Why is turf interaction "superior" with blades ? And doesn't turf interaction depend AT LEAST as much on one's swing as the clubs one is swinging with ?

    I played the 410's this year because at 67 years old I had hoped picking up a little distance would help me out a bit. They did help with distance but as I explained in my post my short game took a dive. It might be in my head but my short game drastically improves with a more narrow sole. Just my opinion for my game. And I usually play twice a week and throw in some practice time also.

    The distance you picked up (over blades ?) is likely due (mostly) to stronger lofts.

    If your handicap is the lowest it's been in years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and meanwhile your short game "took a dive",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what is a likely conclusion ???

    And sure, by all means, give the blade type wedges a try. I've got GI irons and premium blade type wedges. I agree(d) with you. Bladed wedges are better.

    The conclusion is I hit the fairway off the tee and switched to a claw grip and putted the **** out of the ball.

    LOL

    Given your "evidence", THAT is the conclusion you'd come up with ? Hope you're not a lawyer.

    And I wonder why you STILL have the G410s listed in your signature. Did you forget to change it ?

    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • revanantrevanant  401Members Posts: 401
    Joined:  edited Nov 11, 2019 7:45pm #210

    @balls_deep said:

    @Fairway14 said:

    @chisag said:

    ... It is unique to WRX that so many think anyone can play MB's effectively and one of the reasons these threads can be so contentious.

    Have you considered that some high handicap and, or, beginner players (for whatever reason), might be able to swing and square at impact a relatively small iron head more consistently than a large iron head ?

    Why on earth do you keep trying to make this point? It does not need to be shovels vs blades. A titleist CB or AP2 is a much smaller footprint than a Z forged or even an MP20 MB. It doesn’t need to be a G series shovel man.

    I haven't bothered to read this whole thread, but I feel like I know what it says. : D

    I can back up this one point, though. My 716 CBs have a thinner topline and similar footprint to my old MP-14s. So, aethetically and in form, there are definitely great small players CBs out there.

    As for performance benefit, it's probably up to the individual. Personally, I have fun with my MP-4s and my ball striking and gofling mindset has been steadily improving with them in the bag.

    You can find a good set of cheap, old blades for $100 or less. The best way to answer if you'll enjoy having them in the bag is to buy them (ideally with a return policy) and test them out. If you like them, keep them. If you don't, return them. Issue solved. : D

    Posted:

    Cobra King LTD
    Cobra F8 3W
    Cobra F6 Baffler 5W
    Mizuno MP-4 w/ Project X 6.0
    Titleist Vokey SM5 54-10 M
    Mizuno JPX 58-14
    Ping Redwood D66

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  • lawsonmanlawsonman Freeport, Illinois 5755Members Posts: 5,755
    Joined:  #211

    @nsxguy said:

    @lawsonman said:

    @nsxguy said:

    @lawsonman said:

    @nsxguy said:

    @lawsonman said:
    Here's my problem with the whole blade debates we have around here. There is so much more to getting from the tee to the green than just the help from perimeter weighting. The foregiveness of my G410's is second to none. At age 67 my handicap is the lowest it's been in years at a 9. But a couple parts of my game that suffered the most was my proximity to the pin on shots inside 100 yards and my chipping. Those 30,40,50 yard shots with my 410's are not good compared to a iron with a narrow sole. Touch shots are so much easier with a blade. I don't play long golf courses anymore so most of my second shots on par 4's are usually between 90-160 yards. I maintain anyone that plays once a week with a little practice thrown in can play any blade they want to play from at least the 7 on down and they may play better because of the superior turf interaction of blades and narrow soled cb's. I'm sure someone will come on here and post that I'm full of crap but this has been my experience.

    Well, we all have our opinions.

    You say 7-PW is OK with a blade ? So why are your 6-UW 410s ? Or don't you play at least once a week and practice a little ?

    Why is turf interaction "superior" with blades ? And doesn't turf interaction depend AT LEAST as much on one's swing as the clubs one is swinging with ?

    I played the 410's this year because at 67 years old I had hoped picking up a little distance would help me out a bit. They did help with distance but as I explained in my post my short game took a dive. It might be in my head but my short game drastically improves with a more narrow sole. Just my opinion for my game. And I usually play twice a week and throw in some practice time also.

    The distance you picked up (over blades ?) is likely due (mostly) to stronger lofts.

    If your handicap is the lowest it's been in years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and meanwhile your short game "took a dive",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what is a likely conclusion ???

    And sure, by all means, give the blade type wedges a try. I've got GI irons and premium blade type wedges. I agree(d) with you. Bladed wedges are better.

    The conclusion is I hit the fairway off the tee and switched to a claw grip and putted the **** out of the ball.

    LOL

    Given your "evidence", THAT is the conclusion you'd come up with ? Hope you're not a lawyer.

    And I wonder why you STILL have the G410s listed in your signature. Did you forget to change it ?

    My season has been over for a month or so. Haven't sold them yet. Probably won't until spring. Not a lawyer, I still work for a living.

    Posted:
    Ping G400 driver
    Ping Anser 17,20,23 Hybrids
    Ping G410 6-UW Irons ( Next Season ? )
    Ping 54WS,58ES Wedges
    Scotty Cameron Newport 3


    Snell MTB X
9

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