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Help replacing my 716 AP2 - (MP20 / T1100 / P790 / i500.....)

 SugarPenguin ·  
SugarPenguinSugarPenguin  60Members Posts: 60
Joined:  edited Nov 1, 2019 11:19am in Equipment #1

So I am looking at upgrading my 716 AP2s with Project X 6.0 Rifle shafts (standard loft / lie and 1/2 inch short. Short man (5'7) in my late 20's
I hit a high ball flight with a slight draw. Not a fan of overly stiff shafts.
Currently an 8 handicap and my approach shots are probably my biggest strength. Fairly fast driver SS of 108-112 on a normal swing.

I have had them for over 4 years now and I feel a change is needed.

Likes:
- Consistency / gapping - yardages are ridiculously consistent. Good shots are always pin high and I never get any fliers.
- Forgiveness - I feel like they are pretty forgiving
- Feel - feel good but not great
- Shape - great profile and shape by the ball. Love the soles.

Dislikes:
- Really struggle to flight them, especially in the long irons. They really seem to just spin bit much and just rise and rise. This is more me than the clubs though.
- Distance - these things go nowhere. My 4 iron carries in the low 190s. My 7 iron is the high 150's. Medium swings and fast swings go the same distance. I have a apex hybrid that I carry 215-225 and a 3 wood that carries 245. Driver distance is 265 carry rolls out to about 280. I dont feel my iron distances are comparable.
- Blade length - they are really quite squat, I had them next to some Mizuno and Vega blades and they are literally the same size in regards to blade length.
- Offset - slightly too much offset which is starting to irk me now im a better striker
- In the bag - clubs look pretty hideous in the bag :smiley:

Iv hit the irons in the thread title on the range with a mixture of nippon and KBS shafts and iv booked for a fitting next week.

Im a fan of the MP20 HMBs the most. From a performance aspect they just work. They do fly a little high though especially in the long irons which is a bit of a worry, however they just look so good, but maybe slightly on the large side. Would be good to hear some thoughts on these? I am even considering a full MMC set (dont look as pretty and they have a small profile like my AP2) or going HMB and then MB in 9 iron and PW as they PW in the HMB looks a bit large. Any feedback would be great on the entire set up. The HMB sole width is actually fairly large as well which wont suit my shallow divots and hard fairways.

The Pings I wont be gonig for as they feel like kettles but the performance and looks are there

I like the Titleist T series from a performance point of view and down by the ball. The 1100 is an amazing club buts its so close to my AP2 but they do perform better. The rest of the T series looks dreadful in all aspects.

The Taylormade P790's surprised me. Really good feeling clubs. Nice sharp edges. They just go stupid long and I cannot see these being beneficial to my game. They perform almost too well if that makes sense. I have not tried the P760s.

I just want something that basically is maybe slightly larger but not too thick that spins less and flies lower. Until recently I had no idea how small my AP2s actually are. Easy right :)
Help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Posted:
The Bats:
TS3 - Project X Hzrdus Smoke Yellow
TS3 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver
Apex Hybrid 19°- Kuro Kage Black
MP20 MMC - Project X Rifle 6.0
Vokey 50° 54° 58° - Project X Rifle 6.0
Spider Tour X
1

Comments

  • balls_deepballs_deep Wanna earn 14 bucks the hard way? 1613Members Posts: 1,613
    Joined:  #2

    You and I are similar speed wise though I am 6’1 and I’m sure we deliver the club differently. The one thing is my driver swing is my weakest club in terms of speed efficiency. I swing 7i at 93mph or so. Which is my 175-180 carry club so I’m not sure if we are the exact same speed but either way I figured out I was playing shafts that were too soft. I just tried a lot of the clubs that you’re mentioning and given your spin issues I’d highly recommend the Srixon 785s. The main thing I’d consider though, and I know it’s difficult at this time of year, but as a better player and looking to get to the next level - try them outside. I thought I’d struck goals with the MP20 MB but the turf interaction wasn’t right for me. Much prefer the preworn leading edge on titleist. For better players it is so important to feel comfortable over the ball with the club which I just was not with the Mizzys.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 8.5° Project X Evenflow White 6.5x 62g
    Titleist 917F2 15.75°  Project X HZRDUS Handcrafted Black 6.0 75g
    Titleist 818 H1 19° Project X HZRDUS Handcrafted Black 6.0 85g
    Mizuno MP-20 MB 4-PW Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
    Vokey SM7 50F 56M 60M Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400
    Scotty Cameron Futura 5.5M 35"
    Pro V1x
    Currently - 5.6


  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • bvanlieubvanlieu  27Members Posts: 27
    Joined:  edited Nov 1, 2019 1:29pm #3

    Carrying a 4i 190 is not going 'nowhere', unless its a jacked loft 4i that is really a 2i, and even that is pretty darn good for the average hack. Sheesh :)

    Your iron distances are very similar to mine, and my clubs are lofted about the same as yours (P770s). P790's will be +1 club due to loft like anything else in the players/forgiving category of stronger lofted clubs. They are 2-2.5d stronger then your APs.

    By SS alone, I would guess your 7i to go a 5-7y further only because you have 5mph on me in that department: perhaps you are smoother on the irons?

    You should try the P760 if you like the 790: smaller players club, similar forgiveness to 790 in 7 below, same lofts as your APs.

    B_D is spot on in that turn interaction is different on the brands, something you want to try to do before purchasing and not just mat them.

    • b
    Posted:
  • SugarPenguinSugarPenguin  60Members Posts: 60
    Joined:  #4

    Definitely will deliver it different im assuming. Your SS is a a bit quicker than mine with the irons as im topping out at round 89mph with my 7i.
    Im going to try a couple of stiffer shafts but I have a bit of a dodgy back so always worried it might be a bit of a problem the older I get.

    Only problem is I am in the UK and finding a place tat stocks Srixon can be quite difficult. Read a lot of good things about the 785s though and would love to give them a go.

    Hear what your saying regarding the turf interaction. Titleist do it so well.

    Posted:
    The Bats:
    TS3 - Project X Hzrdus Smoke Yellow
    TS3 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver
    Apex Hybrid 19°- Kuro Kage Black
    MP20 MMC - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Vokey 50° 54° 58° - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Spider Tour X
  • SweetdrawSweetdraw  65Members Posts: 65
    Joined:  #5

    Shafts. Shafts. Shafts.

    Start here. Lock this down before the iron heads.

    Given your SS and yardages, probably need different flex or type.

    Posted:
  • NJgolfer11NJgolfer11  145Members Posts: 145
    Joined:  #6

    @SugarPenguin said:
    So I am looking at upgrading my 716 AP2s with Project X 6.0 Rifle shafts (standard loft / lie and 1/2 inch short. Short man (5'7) in my late 20's
    I hit a high ball flight with a slight draw. Not a fan of overly stiff shafts.
    Currently an 8 handicap and my approach shots are probably my biggest strength. Fairly fast driver SS of 108-112 on a normal swing.

    I have had them for over 4 years now and I feel a change is needed.

    Likes:
    - Consistency / gapping - yardages are ridiculously consistent. Good shots are always pin high and I never get any fliers.
    - Forgiveness - I feel like they are pretty forgiving
    - Feel - feel good but not great
    - Shape - great profile and shape by the ball. Love the soles.

    Dislikes:
    - Really struggle to flight them, especially in the long irons. They really seem to just spin bit much and just rise and rise. This is more me than the clubs though.
    - Distance - these things go nowhere. My 4 iron carries in the low 190s. My 7 iron is the high 150's. Medium swings and fast swings go the same distance. I have a apex hybrid that I carry 215-225 and a 3 wood that carries 245. Driver distance is 265 carry rolls out to about 280. I dont feel my iron distances are comparable.
    - Blade length - they are really quite squat, I had them next to some Mizuno and Vega blades and they are literally the same size in regards to blade length.
    - Offset - slightly too much offset which is starting to irk me now im a better striker
    - In the bag - clubs look pretty hideous in the bag :smiley:

    Iv hit the irons in the thread title on the range with a mixture of nippon and KBS shafts and iv booked for a fitting next week.

    Im a fan of the MP20 HMBs the most. From a performance aspect they just work. They do fly a little high though especially in the long irons which is a bit of a worry, however they just look so good, but maybe slightly on the large side. Would be good to hear some thoughts on these? I am even considering a full MMC set (dont look as pretty and they have a small profile like my AP2) or going HMB and then MB in 9 iron and PW as they PW in the HMB looks a bit large. Any feedback would be great on the entire set up. The HMB sole width is actually fairly large as well which wont suit my shallow divots and hard fairways.

    The Pings I wont be gonig for as they feel like kettles but the performance and looks are there

    I like the Titleist T series from a performance point of view and down by the ball. The 1100 is an amazing club buts its so close to my AP2 but they do perform better. The rest of the T series looks dreadful in all aspects.

    The Taylormade P790's surprised me. Really good feeling clubs. Nice sharp edges. They just go stupid long and I cannot see these being beneficial to my game. They perform almost too well if that makes sense. I have not tried the P760s.

    I just want something that basically is maybe slightly larger but not too thick that spins less and flies lower. Until recently I had no idea how small my AP2s actually are. Easy right :)
    Help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    I know you did not have them in your list, but if you liked the looks of the i500, but hated the feel, I suggest trying the I210. I have them and love them.

    Also, I have read a lot of positive reviews on the new Ping Blueprints, if you like Ping.

    Posted:
  • SugarPenguinSugarPenguin  60Members Posts: 60
    Joined:  #7

    I mean I’m really happy to try everything. Just need to get it right.

    Really happy with my current shafts to be honest and could got a fraction stiff with maybe a C-Taper but not a fan of rods. I like a bit of flex as it’s too stiff my body automatically tries to launch the ball

    Posted:
    The Bats:
    TS3 - Project X Hzrdus Smoke Yellow
    TS3 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver
    Apex Hybrid 19°- Kuro Kage Black
    MP20 MMC - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Vokey 50° 54° 58° - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Spider Tour X
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • Jeff58Jeff58 Bend Oregon 63Members Posts: 63
    Joined:  #8

    Fit - consider not using -1/2” shafts, even if they’re “correct” for you, and only correct for lie angle. Obviously, you’re giving up to a club in distance with the shorter length. A more vertical swing plane also typically results in a higher launch angle.

    Clubs - try P790’s with C-tapers. Launch low, go far. C-tapers are in the TM fit set if you have that available to you.

    Posted:
  • SugarPenguinSugarPenguin  60Members Posts: 60
    Joined:  #9

    Had preliminary hit this morning with the full MP 20 range before my fitting which is booked in for Thursday. All of them were standard loft and lie and shaft length.

    So so impressed with the entire range. I was hitting into a fair wind so it was extremely difficult to gauge distance and flight for the most part

    • MMC was my favorite in regards to performance. Lowest flight for sure
    • HMB just launched very high into the air. I thought these would feel hot but they don't
    • MB just so pure and actually surprisingly easy to hit. Toe and heel strike there is a large drop off in performance however.

    I did hit all of them very well. The MB has a larger blade length than my current AP2's as well so I got on better than expected and I am now considering blending.

    I took a photo with the 7 irons for a comparison
    Left to right - HMB, MMC, MB, AP2

    Posted:
    The Bats:
    TS3 - Project X Hzrdus Smoke Yellow
    TS3 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver
    Apex Hybrid 19°- Kuro Kage Black
    MP20 MMC - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Vokey 50° 54° 58° - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Spider Tour X
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16  8202Members Posts: 8,202
    Joined:  #10

    Your main complaints, if I'm reading this right is -

    1) Looks - you want something sexier in the bag
    2) Long iron flight - too spinny

    You mainly want less spin something still forgiving but looks good.

    I'll say this, your distances seem a little bit off for your swing speed. Swinging a driver up to 112, you should have waaay more in the tank than upper 150's for the 7i. When I got fit most recently, my 6i speed on GCQ was 98-100, and my carry for the 6i was just shy of 200 yards in most cases. Your 7i speed is probably around the 93-96mph mark, so with optimal flight numbers you should have that 7i much closer to the 170-175 range, depending on your delivery.

    Ok, so anyway, let's address the issues:

    1) Looks - Subjective. I can't tell you what you'll find **** or not, but I do think that in general, AP2's are yucky looking except the 718's and now T100's as far as Titleist goes. Gotta love MP20 as #1 best looking iron this year. 760's also grew on me when I saw them in person.

    2) Flight - To me, your story screams of high spin. In my experience, AP2's spin the [email protected] out of the ball as is, so if your swing adds even more spin plus you're using say... A chrome soft or other really spinny ball, you're going to get ballooning. 190 carry isn't bad for the 4i, but if you ball looks to be kind of launching low then suddenly rises up quickly, that's probably not optimal for you. I would highly suggest, before you dump money into new irons, trying a lower spinning ball (but still Tour caliber) like TP5X or the XV. I got fit for a ball as well and noticed massive differences in iron spin between various models of ball. Like.... over 1k revs between the lowest and highest.

    I know you might have the itch and you'll switch anyway to something knew, but do remember that ball plays a very large factor in how the ball flight looks and what your shots can and can't do. When I gamed Miura blades I had to switch to a TP5X because my long irons were ballooning a bunch. Now that I use slightly lower spinning heads, I went back to a little more spin in the ball.

    Posted:
    D - Epic SZ | HZRDUS Smoke Black
    4w - '16 Tour Issue M1 | Diamana B Series
    UNDECIDED
    Irons - MP-20 SEL 4-PW | Modus 120
    GW - T20 50/7 | Modus 120
    SW - T20 54/8 | Modus 120
    LW - T20 58/12 | Modus Wedge 125
    P - Bettinardi 360-M
    Ball - Bridgestone BXS


  • SugarPenguinSugarPenguin  60Members Posts: 60
    Joined:  #11

    @Z1ggy16 pretty much spot on with what you have said. I was looking into AVX recently as the reviews seem to drop spin an absolute ton.
    Regarding my SS with a 7iron, its about the 90mph mark. I do swing irons a lot smoother and I use shorter clubs.

    New irons will still be purchased though. I will report back after hitting all the brands Thursday.

    Posted:
    The Bats:
    TS3 - Project X Hzrdus Smoke Yellow
    TS3 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver
    Apex Hybrid 19°- Kuro Kage Black
    MP20 MMC - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Vokey 50° 54° 58° - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Spider Tour X
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16  8202Members Posts: 8,202
    Joined:  #12

    @SugarPenguin check out the TP5X ball too if the irons you hit are all spinning a little high. It's a low spin tour ball but it might spin a little more around the greens than AVX. I found it a little softer than Z Star XV and I got the highest ball speed from any ball I tried with my irons. Let us know how it goes!

    Posted:
    D - Epic SZ | HZRDUS Smoke Black
    4w - '16 Tour Issue M1 | Diamana B Series
    UNDECIDED
    Irons - MP-20 SEL 4-PW | Modus 120
    GW - T20 50/7 | Modus 120
    SW - T20 54/8 | Modus 120
    LW - T20 58/12 | Modus Wedge 125
    P - Bettinardi 360-M
    Ball - Bridgestone BXS


  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • SugarPenguinSugarPenguin  60Members Posts: 60
    Joined:  edited Nov 8, 2019 12:13am #13

    Finished my fitting a few hours ago and I have gone with the following set up:

    4 iron - HMB
    5 - 9 Iron - MMC
    Project x 6.0 shafts
    Standard loft and lie
    1/4 inch short

    First off tried the Taylormade range and Titleist irons.
    Taylormade - was impressed with the performance but the p760 looks so cheap and tacky. The P790s are just rockets and feel so hot. I maanged to get a 7 iron almost rolling to 200 yards. Blade length and head size is also a bit large. I mean I could use them but not for me.

    The T series is a big performance step up for Titleist. the T100 is very similar to my AP2 but thinner and less offset. Felt great as well and I could have gone for the T100. Forgiveness wasnt fantastic though and I want to move away from Titleist. The T200 is a superb iron but not for me. Lots of offset and they look horrendous. But really impressed with how they felt and performed.

    Mizuno.... just wow.
    MMC
    I started with the MMC in my usual shaft (Project X 6.0) and was averaging 91.5mph swing speed with a 7 iron and carrying the ball between 167-170. Spin rate with my Pro V1 was around 6200 so my spin dropped between 700-800 from my 7 iron AP2. Peak height went from 40 to 38 but the MMC is 2 degrees stronger.
    Had my standard baby draw and once i managed to figure how to release the club I was super consistent. The MMC is very forgiving on low strikes. Since im a 'picker' I was delighted with the performance.
    They just feel and look so good by the ball. The profile at address is gorgeous. Minimal offset and a thin top line but a fair sized blade length. However, in the bag..... not overly in love with them. The HMB looks better for sure.

    I tried various shafts and the fitter wanted to put me in the KBS C-Taper. My numbers were better with the C-Taper on optimal strikes. I was 3 yards longer, launched it a degree lower but spun a fraction more.
    I really liked the performance and feel of the shaft. I just hit some clangers with it though and it put me off with the longer irons - so I stuck with what I know. I think there's potential with the C-Taper but I dont have my best swing every round and confidence is huge.

    HMB
    Great club. They are as I expected, pretty bulky in places. The soles are ok but quite large at the toe, especially in the long irons. Average head size and average amounts of offset. Launched 2 degrees higher than the MMC but got a couple mph more ball speed. Peak height was 40 and similar spin. Practically for me - no performance gains what so ever. I just couldn't stop turning the club over though. I was left of target each time and I struggled to flight the HMB. I really wanted to purchase the iron as it looks so beautiful but I just couldn't. It is a bit of a strange one for me. They are extremely easy to launch and I can see an 18 handicapper playing these no problem. I just think they need to either make them smaller and closer to the MMC or give the HMB a bit more ooomf. Maybe slower swing speeds you might see better efficiency compared to the MMC but not for a medium-fast guy like me.
    .
    I did however go for the 4 iron in HMB however :)
    Love a full 4 iron and the MMC looks a bit scary by the ball. I struck the 4 iron so so good so I decided to HMB it up. I could easily play a full set no problem - i do want to point this out and they were much preferred to the other clubs.

    No Wedge - decided against it. The profile of the entire set of PW in the MP20 - including the MB, is too large. The face and blade length is long and I have no idea why! Going to get another Vokey at 46.

    Thanks for the help all and I hope this post will assist somebody moving forwards.

    Posted:
    The Bats:
    TS3 - Project X Hzrdus Smoke Yellow
    TS3 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver
    Apex Hybrid 19°- Kuro Kage Black
    MP20 MMC - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Vokey 50° 54° 58° - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Spider Tour X
  • craz-ecraz-e  4261Members Posts: 4,261
    Joined:  #14

    @SugarPenguin said:
    Finished my fitting a few hours ago and I have gone with the following set up:

    4 iron - HMB
    5 - 9 Iron - MMC
    Project x 6.0 shafts
    Standard loft and lie
    1/4 inch short

    First off tried the Taylormade range and Titleist irons.
    Taylormade - was impressed with the performance but the p760 looks so cheap and tacky. The P790s are just rockets and feel so hot. I maanged to get a 7 iron almost rolling to 200 yards. Blade length and head size is also a bit large. I mean I could use them but not for me.

    The T series is a big performance step up for Titleist. the T100 is very similar to my AP2 but thinner and less offset. Felt great as well and I could have gone for the T100. Forgiveness wasnt fantastic though and I want to move away from Titleist. The T200 is a superb iron but not for me. Lots of offset and they look horrendous. But really impressed with how they felt and performed.

    Mizuno.... just wow.
    MMC
    I started with the MMC in my usual shaft (Project X 6.0) and was averaging 91.5mph swing speed with a 7 iron and carrying the ball between 167-170. Spin rate with my Pro V1 was around 6200 so my spin dropped between 700-800 from my 7 iron AP2. Peak height went from 40 to 38 but the MMC is 2 degrees stronger.
    Had my standard baby draw and once i managed to figure how to release the club I was super consistent. The MMC is very forgiving on low strikes. Since im a 'picker' I was delighted with the performance.
    They just feel and look so good by the ball. The profile at address is gorgeous. Minimal offset and a thin top line but a fair sized blade length. However, in the bag..... not overly in love with them. The HMB looks better for sure.

    I tried various shafts and the fitter wanted to put me in the KBS C-Taper. My numbers were better with the C-Taper on optimal strikes. I was 3 yards longer, launched it a degree lower but spun a fraction more.
    I really liked the performance and feel of the shaft. I just hit some clangers with it though and it put me off with the longer irons - so I stuck with what I know. I think there's potential with the C-Taper but I dont have my best swing every round and confidence is huge.

    HMB
    Great club. They are as I expected, pretty bulky in places. The soles are ok but quite large at the toe, especially in the long irons. Average head size and average amounts of offset. Launched 2 degrees higher than the MMC but got a couple mph more ball speed. Peak height was 40 and similar spin. Practically for me - no performance gains what so ever. I just couldn't stop turning the club over though. I was left of target each time and I struggled to flight the HMB. I really wanted to purchase the iron as it looks so beautiful but I just couldn't. It is a bit of a strange one for me. They are extremely easy to launch and I can see an 18 handicapper playing these no problem. I just think they need to either make them smaller and closer to the MMC or give the HMB a bit more ooomf. Maybe slower swing speeds you might see better efficiency compared to the MMC but not for a medium-fast guy like me.
    .
    I did however go for the 4 iron in HMB however :)
    Love a full 4 iron and the MMC looks a bit scary by the ball. I struck the 4 iron so so good so I decided to HMB it up. I could easily play a full set no problem - i do want to point this out and they were much preferred to the other clubs.

    No Wedge - decided against it. The profile of the entire set of PW in the MP20 - including the MB, is too large. The face and blade length is long and I have no idea why! Going to get another Vokey at 46.

    Thanks for the help all and I hope this post will assist somebody moving forwards.

    What a great write up!

    It makes me want to go hit the Mizuno's!

    Posted:
    Driver = Ping G410 Plus even flow black 6.0
    4 wood = Titleist TS2 Even flow white 6.0
    3 iron = Titleist U500 Hzrdus smoke 6.0
    Irons = Titleist 718 CB/MB Project X LZ 6.0
    Wedges = Titleist Vokey SM6 52*, 56*
                  = Ping Glide 3.0 eye 2 60* 
    Putter = Wilson Staff 8882
    Ball = Titleist AVX
  • SugarPenguinSugarPenguin  60Members Posts: 60
    Joined:  #15

    Thanks @craz-e

    No gimmicks - just pure quality.

    Should be with me in a week.
    The HMB will take just over 2 weeks. Must be to do with the popularity of the HMB. Be good to know the sales split.

    Posted:
    The Bats:
    TS3 - Project X Hzrdus Smoke Yellow
    TS3 3 Wood - Aldila Rogue Silver
    Apex Hybrid 19°- Kuro Kage Black
    MP20 MMC - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Vokey 50° 54° 58° - Project X Rifle 6.0
    Spider Tour X
  • DMartiniDMartini at home on the range 72Members Posts: 72
    Joined:  #16

    yeah +1 to what Craz-e said, great review & write up.

    look forward to reading how you get on playing these in course conditions.

    Posted:

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