Squatting, shallowing inter-relationships and the confusion

I made a video for a student last night to show from a different view. 2D doesn't get it. I've explained before that the lateral move isn't down the line. It is, but not really....

I like it; good demonstration. Many really athletic types do it naturally. The "feels" to get someone fixed will likely vary depending on their flaw...i.e. too spinny, too much slide, EE, etc.

The "feel" difference is the limiting factor for most. In my swing, I know if I start pulling or over-drawing the ball, I'm not getting the right elbow in front of my right hip, (i.e. I lose reverse tilt) enough I auto compensate by releasing a tad early and the clubface comes in a bit closed.

The right elbow can't possibly get where it needs to be if the reverse and forward tilts are not maintained

The trigger for it all remains buried in the hip action and proper foot pressures...

I also mentioned "extension" at the end. Next week I'll post a video that addresses the confusion I see on a regular basis...

> @Atrayn said:

> I also mentioned "extension" at the end. Next week I'll post a video that addresses the confusion I see on a regular basis...

Good stuff

> @Atrayn said:

> The "feel" difference is the limiting factor for most. In my swing, I know if I start pulling or over-drawing the ball, I'm not getting the right elbow in front of my right hip, (i.e. I lose reverse tilt) enough I auto compensate by releasing a tad early and the clubface comes in a bit closed.

I do the same thing...in concert with your demonstrated hip action, what kind of things do you work on to prevent that loss of tilt?

> @psufish said:

> > @Atrayn said:

> > The "feel" difference is the limiting factor for most. In my swing, I know if I start pulling or over-drawing the ball, I'm not getting the right elbow in front of my right hip, (i.e. I lose reverse tilt) enough I auto compensate by releasing a tad early and the clubface comes in a bit closed.

>

> I do the same thing...in concert with your demonstrated hip action, what kind of things do you work on to prevent that loss of tilt?

For me, both the squatting move, and the maintenance of reverse tilt are not really conscious moves, but rather a body reaction when I am trying to maintain posture, as well as head and upper body position throughout the downswing.

In order keep my hip bend, upper body angle, and prevent early extension (this is what I refer to broadly as "maintaining posture") in the downswing, my hips naturally squat and move towards the target. If I maintain my upper body and head position at the same time, then this move also maintains the reverse tilt. It's only if I start moving my upper body around laterally that the loss of reverse tilt becomes a possibility.

> @psufish said:

> > @Atrayn said:

> > The "feel" difference is the limiting factor for most. In my swing, I know if I start pulling or over-drawing the ball, I'm not getting the right elbow in front of my right hip, (i.e. I lose reverse tilt) enough I auto compensate by releasing a tad early and the clubface comes in a bit closed.

>

> I do the same thing...in concert with your demonstrated hip action, what kind of things do you work on to prevent that loss of tilt?

It's pretty simple for me. I just think about the right elbow. It pretty much forces my hips to open earlier. I think it's actually a Jedi mind trick.

I've used the chopping down a tree analogy for some and they seem to get it. Grab an axe and swing it. The head weight causes an auto response where the body alignments are very similar.

The right elbow auto tucks the hips open early...etc

I've been focusing on the squat move for a while now and I feel it really helps to shallow out the club and I can definitely see a distance increase when I do it correctly.

> @Atrayn said:

> > @psufish said:

> > > @Atrayn said:

> > > The "feel" difference is the limiting factor for most. In my swing, I know if I start pulling or over-drawing the ball, I'm not getting the right elbow in front of my right hip, (i.e. I lose reverse tilt) enough I auto compensate by releasing a tad early and the clubface comes in a bit closed.

> >

> > I do the same thing...in concert with your demonstrated hip action, what kind of things do you work on to prevent that loss of tilt?

>

> It's pretty simple for me. I just think about the right elbow. It pretty much forces my hips to open earlier. I think it's actually a Jedi mind trick.

>

> I've used the chopping down a tree analogy for some and they seem to get it. Grab an axe and swing it. The head weight causes an auto response where the body alignments are very similar.

>

> The right elbow auto tucks the hips open early...etc

I agree, and have found similar success with that right elbow. My problem is more when I move that left hip correctly, my left shoulder wants to fly open way out of sequence....it may just be a me prob, not sure

That's where my comment at the end regarding extension comes in. The left shoulder works up and back. Once you get it a light bulb will go off and you'll be baffled as to how easy it is.

It just won't come together until you get yourself in the proper position at the top with the proper pressure in the feet...

Also it really depends on the backswing. I don't care if you go across the line with a flying elbow at the top, but all that has to come back down to right hip.

Great stuff, thank you @Atrayn! after rotation, the left shoulder working back at extension really clears up the sequence.

similar concept to Monte's zipper away, no?

Awesome stuff in this thread Atrayn! The golf swing is certainly an intricate puzzle. And you're right that the right elbow is the key in the early downswing. If you don't get it tucked back in front of your body before your shoulders begin rotating, you don't stand a chance of hitting it well. And even if you do, it will all go to hell if you have a tendency towards sliding instead of rotating. Or if you have an open clubface or don't understand proper release mechanics (hello, shank city!).

With everything going on, you can see why some people never get it, no matter how hard they work at it.

> @scooterhd2 said:

> similar concept to Monte's zipper away, no?

Same concept. Just a different way to explain it.

I just found this and he does a pretty good job

> @deathbymuffin said:

> Awesome stuff in this thread Atrayn! The golf swing is certainly an intricate puzzle. And you're right that the right elbow is the key in the early downswing. If you don't get it tucked back in front of your body before your shoulders begin rotating, you don't stand a chance of hitting it well. And even if you do, it will all go to **** if you have a tendency towards sliding instead of rotating. Or if you have an open clubface or don't understand proper release mechanics (hello, shank city!).

>

> With everything going on, you can see why some people never get it, no matter how hard they work at it.

Hogan's 5 Lessons hits on the right elbow position and uses skipping stones.

It's a good one but I hate the illustration because it doesn't engage the left arm and by standing straight up he would only throw it about 30 ft! In fact, wouldn't you say right here he is early extending?

When I'm skipping stones, my whole body is engaged as I'm staying in my tilts to try and get the most speed (skips) that I can. I just found this and he does a pretty good job

I don't think sequencing...it happens naturally

Regarding the stone-skipping video above, I can skip stones across water like a frickin champion. I've always had a good arm in baseball, and "get" weight shift. But I've got a serious early extension issue. I'd like to know what drill there is for transferring that stone skipping move to an actual swing. I know that's the position I need to get into, and it's a natural position for me...but just not with a club in my hand and a ball on the ground. Suggestions? Drills?

I truly believe this is one of the most difficult moves to finally "get".

Zach Allen does s great job

> @cyr67 said:

> Regarding the stone-skipping video above, I can skip stones across water like a frickin champion. I've always had a good arm in baseball, and "get" weight shift. But I've got a serious early extension issue. I'd like to know what drill there is for transferring that stone skipping move to an actual swing. I know that's the position I need to get into, and it's a natural position for me...but just not with a club in my hand and a ball on the ground. Suggestions? Drills?

Trust your hands and leave them alone.

Left shoulder up and back so is this the key to low point as in low point is generally where left shoulder is at impact?

> @musclefront said:

> Left shoulder up and back so is this the key to low point as in low point is generally where left shoulder is at impact?

Left shoulder up and back is the key to good extension. It's also the throttle....lol

As far as low point control for the average golfer? I've had more success working on a solid base in the feet ensuring that you pressure the right instep/heel with the right knee being the key to better low point consistency.

Most golfers sway to the right over the foot and in turn the right hip moves laterally as well

> @Atrayn said:

> I truly believe this is one of the most difficult moves to finally "get".

> Zach Allen does s great job

>

>

Solid video. Thanks!