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58 vs 60 degree wedge

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KhooBotKhooBot Singapore/Columbia,SCMembers  54WRX Points: 36Handicap: 9Posts: 54 Bunkers
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Would a 2 degree change in loft significantly change my yardage?
I'm currently using a 60 Hi Toe which I love for short shots and bunker shots but I've also found that from time to time I need to hit a high 100 yard shot which I try to do with my 60 wedge but it always comes up short. My full shots for 50 goes 125-130, 54 goes 115-120 and I can actually control these distances just fine so I assume that a 60 should get me about 100 but it comes up short at 85-90. The only way I can actually get my 60 to go 100-105 is by really just hammering down the 60 which leads me to be more inconsistent with my striking. Will the 58 be significantly different from the 60 in terms of short chips and bunker shots? I really love my 60 so far but this 100 yard shot is just crushing me especially if I can't approach the green with a low flighted PW or 50. The only reason the 60 hasn't moved down to a 58 is because of how versatile I've found it to be greenside and I don't really put myself in 100 yard distances but when I do by accident......
Also, if so, anyone tried the Big foot?

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  • bkirkley09bkirkley09 Members  521WRX Points: 144Handicap: 20+Posts: 521 Golden Tee
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    I am right there with you. I struggle with the 100 yd gapping as well. I tried a 56 degree wedge which carries right around 95 -100 BUT I went with the ES grind for Ping and I do not find it all that forgiving on full shots. I much prefer a bit more effective bounce on my wedges. My 50 degree carries 120 and is always around that distance and I used to use it for chipping in from 100 and in but I did just get a Bigfoot 60 degree and it is fantastic. It is a bit odd with that much bounce for full shots but my chipping game has improved dramatically as it has made it fairly effortless to pop the ball up and land it around the pin. It will not be leaving my bag anytime soon which means it has one more round before its gone on these forums! lol.

    Posted:

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  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members  2481WRX Points: 616Posts: 2,481 Platinum Tees
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    It takes quite a touch to hit full shots with an LW - be it 58* or 60*.

    It appears you may be experiencing the lob effect with your 60*. The lob effect is the point(s) in your wedge mix at which going from to a fuller swing launches the ball higher, but not much longer. I have found the first 60* LW since before 2000 that I can hit reliably. Still, anything more than a 3/4 swing is unstable and unreliable.

    It's not just with LWs. A few years back, I found a Wilson SW that picked up the lob effect at more than a half swing. Half swing = 60 yards / 3/4 swing = 70 yards // full swing = ??whatever??

    In your case, it seems a 58* would give you a little extra distance to fill in your yardage gap.

    Posted:
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  • geochitowngeochitown Members  2384WRX Points: 368Handicap: 11Posts: 2,384 Platinum Tees
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    Bend the 60 to 58

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  • 1Mordrid11Mordrid1 Members  1014WRX Points: 398Posts: 1,014 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @ChipNRun said:

    It takes quite a touch to hit full shots with an LW - be it 58* or 60*.

    **It appears you may be experiencing the lob effect with your 60***. The lob effect is the point(s) in your wedge mix at which going from to a fuller swing launches the ball higher, but not much longer. I have found the first 60* LW since before 2000 that I can hit reliably. Still, anything more than a 3/4 swing is unstable and unreliable.

    It's not just with LWs. A few years back, I found a Wilson SW that picked up the lob effect at more than a half swing. Half swing = 60 yards / 3/4 swing = 70 yards // full swing = ??whatever??

    In your case, it seems a 58* would give you a little extra distance to fill in your yardage gap.

    This ^^^^^

    It is also possible that with that much loft, you could be getting a "glancing blow" effect because you are unable to compress the ball due to the loft of the club.

    Even most pros will use their 56 with a less than full swing rather than hitting a full 60 degree wedge. The degree of difficulty of pulling off a full swing lob wedge shot just makes the shot not worth the risk on straight forward approach shots.

    Posted:
  • iNeedMoreGolfiNeedMoreGolf RiMembers  474WRX Points: 202Handicap: 14Posts: 474 Greens
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    Id say the 58 is going to be perfect for the 100yrd... plus greenside sbouldnt be effected too much.

    Posted:
  • rt_chargerrt_charger Ball Hitter Members  322WRX Points: 108Posts: 322 Greens
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    Not to be that person but I would highly recommend not trying to choose 58 or 60 based on distances - depending on what manufacturer, chose based on bounce (some don't have a 58 or 60 mold and bend to get loft affecting bounce) and on your need to hit lower or higher shots floppy/pitch shots around the green. I myself prefer a 60 to get more loft on flop shots, I hit it full once in a blue moon when I have a front pin, the exact yardage, and the right conditions to do so; I also carry 4 wedges and consider myself a short game specialist.

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  • pingplayerpingplayer Members  165WRX Points: 76Posts: 165 Fairways
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    I would get a 56 and bend the 50 a little.

    Posted:
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers  3930WRX Points: 1,088Handicap: 3.9Posts: 3,930 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Nov 6, 2019 #9

    On -, @rt_charger said:

    Not to be that person but I would highly recommend not trying to choose 58 or 60 based on distances - depending on what manufacturer, chose based on bounce (some don't have a 58 or 60 mold and bend to get loft affecting bounce) and on your need to hit lower or higher shots floppy/pitch shots around the green. I myself prefer a 60 to get more loft on flop shots, I hit it full once in a blue moon when I have a front pin, the exact yardage, and the right conditions to do so; I also carry 4 wedges and consider myself a short game specialist.

    I would agree with this.

    I'm in a similar boat. I carry 4 wedges and they are my best clubs. I would NOT want to lose my 60 around the green. I've flirted with 58's before but they just aren't the same when it comes to chipping and pitching. I've always found the 58 behaved more like a 56 as compared to a 60.

    With regard to full-swing distances, I would simply pick a comfortable number and go play based on that. If you run into "in between" yardages, then no biggie. Taking 5- or 10-yards off a wedge shot should not be much of a problem if you're practicing those half-swings on the range a little bit.

    Posted:
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  • nitramnitram WestOK, on the South Canadian Riviera Members  5885WRX Points: 503Handicap: -.6Posts: 5,885 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @MelloYello said:

    On -, @rt_charger said:

    Not to be that person but I would highly recommend not trying to choose 58 or 60 based on distances - depending on what manufacturer, chose based on bounce (some don't have a 58 or 60 mold and bend to get loft affecting bounce) and on your need to hit lower or higher shots floppy/pitch shots around the green. I myself prefer a 60 to get more loft on flop shots, I hit it full once in a blue moon when I have a front pin, the exact yardage, and the right conditions to do so; I also carry 4 wedges and consider myself a short game specialist.

    I would agree with this.

    I'm in a similar boat. I carry 4 wedges and they are my best clubs. I would NOT want to lose my 60 around the green. I've flirted with 58's before but they just aren't the same when it comes to chipping and pitching. I've always found the 58 behaved more like a 56 as compared to a 60.

    With regard to full-swing distances, I would simply pick a comfortable number and go play based on that. If you run into "in between" yardages, then no biggie. Taking 5- or 10-yards off a wedge shot should not be much of a problem if you're practicing those half-swings on the range a little bit.

    Agree with everything said here.

    I also think it depends on the course conditions you expect to normally encounter.

    FWIW, Stan Utley advocated a 58 for 20+ years and now personally bags a 60.

    Posted:
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  • Back9Back9 ClubWRX  761WRX Points: 107Posts: 761 ClubWRX
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    I have come to agree with the general consensus above. I used to be a big "full wedge swing" guy with up to 5 wedges at 4 degree intervals to cover distances down to 75 yards with a 64 degree. I have found a lot more consistency with using partial shots with less lofted wedges. For me, full shots with high lofts require a very specific degree of shaft lean at impact, contact point on face, and swingpath to get the expected height, distance and spin. Partial swings with less loft seem to be more forgiving and repeatable with a higher variation in contact resulting in acceptable results.

    I also feel there is a bigger difference in greenside shot performance between a 60 and a 58 than between a 58 and a 56. Probably more perceptual than physical but either way, it is real to me.

    Posted:
  • chisagchisag Chicago SuburbsMembers  3428WRX Points: 841Handicap: +0.6Posts: 3,428 Titanium Tees
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    ... Well here is a dissenting opinion. I was basically forced to play a 58* instead of 60* when my pw went from 48* to 46*. So instead of 54/60* I started playing 52/58* to keep the 6* gaps with my wedges. I played all my green side shots for 30 years with my 60* so I was a little worried about going to 58*. After getting comfortable with the change, I wish I had made the move 25 years ago. As others have stated, hitting my 60* harder only produced a higher flight, and while that is a shot I don't hit very often, the 58* performs better for me. At 66, my short game is the cornerstone of my index and I would not make the change if it effected me negatively in any way. Around the green I found very little difference in performance between the 60* and 58* and I now prefer the 58*. Ymmv

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  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members  9783WRX Points: 1,671Posts: 9,783 Titanium Tees
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    Learn to hit your SW and GW 100 yards. I have the same distances as you pretty much, and I literally never hit my LW the full 95-ish yards that it can go. A back pin that's at 100 yards I actually will play a soft knockdown PW, land it hopefully around 90-92, and let it roll out a bit. Middle or front pins at 100, I'll either choke up a an inch or two and hit a full GW or I'll hit a full SW if the hole is playing up hill and/or there's wind at my back.

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  • daleheaddalehead Members  2008WRX Points: 734Posts: 2,008 Platinum Tees
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    I choose my lob wedge on how it performs around the green and out of bunkers not how it performs on full shots. If I need to take 10 yards or so off my 54 I choke it down an inch and make a full swing. Gives me better results than trying to hit the lob wedge hard.

    Posted:
  • RacineBoxerRacineBoxer Members  900WRX Points: 177Handicap: 5Posts: 900 Golden Tee
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    2 degrees should get you roughly 6-8 yards.

    IMO your distances for your 50, 54 and 60 are right about what I'd expect them to be and I'd leave well enough alone. Learn to hit the 54 to 100 yards. You do not want to be forcing your LW an extra 10-15 yards, bad idea.

    Posted:
  • islesmbislesmb Myrtle Beach, SC (from Long Island)Members  223WRX Points: 109Posts: 223 Fairways
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    On -, @xyckin said:

    Would a 2 degree change in loft significantly change my yardage?
    I'm currently using a 60 Hi Toe which I love for short shots and bunker shots but I've also found that from time to time I need to hit a high 100 yard shot which I try to do with my 60 wedge but it always comes up short. My full shots for 50 goes 125-130, 54 goes 115-120 and I can actually control these distances just fine so I assume that a 60 should get me about 100 but it comes up short at 85-90. The only way I can actually get my 60 to go 100-105 is by really just hammering down the 60 which leads me to be more inconsistent with my striking. Will the 58 be significantly different from the 60 in terms of short chips and bunker shots? I really love my 60 so far but this 100 yard shot is just crushing me especially if I can't approach the green with a low flighted PW or 50. The only reason the 60 hasn't moved down to a 58 is because of how versatile I've found it to be greenside and I don't really put myself in 100 yard distances but when I do by accident......
    Also, if so, anyone tried the Big foot?

    I've been using my 58° for just about all shots 100 yards and in for years. I've never felt the need for more loft.

    Posted:
  • RainShadowRainShadow Tucson AZ (for now)Members  4328WRX Points: 575Handicap: 8.2Posts: 4,328 Titanium Tees
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    I went to a 58* many years ago and haven't looked back.
    More consistent full shots ( Rarely used for those) and same function around greens.
    I use mine as 75yd full. 54* goes 90yd full, 50*GW is 105 Full.
    Learned to control distances with all wedges and short irons....develop those golf skills.

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  • DFS PFDDFS PFD Members  1730WRX Points: 1,003Handicap: 1.8Posts: 1,730 Platinum Tees
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    Why not hit the 54* up in your stance when that awkward shot is needed? 60 or 58 will never be optimal at 100% of your max distance.

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13971WRX Points: 1,531Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,971 Titanium Tees
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    If you are comfortable with it around the green a 58* should do the trick. Personally it's my favorite club in my bag. Just make sure you find the right bounce/grind combo for your game.

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  • puttingmattputtingmatt puttingmatt Summer/ Michigan-- Winter/ FloridaMembers  5555WRX Points: 538Handicap: 6.3 HCIPosts: 5,555 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @chisag said:

    ... Well here is a dissenting opinion. I was basically forced to play a 58* instead of 60* when my pw went from 48* to 46*. So instead of 54/60* I started playing 52/58* to keep the 6* gaps with my wedges. I played all my green side shots for 30 years with my 60* so I was a little worried about going to 58*. After getting comfortable with the change, I wish I had made the move 25 years ago. As others have stated, hitting my 60* harder only produced a higher flight, and while that is a shot I don't hit very often, the 58* performs better for me. At 66, my short game is the cornerstone of my index and I would not make the change if it effected me negatively in any way. Around the green I found very little difference in performance between the 60* and 58* and I now prefer the 58*. Ymmv

    Agreed, I also made this change in wedges years ago,
    Works great, can still open the 58* to give even more
    loft for versatile shots around the green,

    Posted:


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  • MitchellGolfingMitchellGolfing Members  1502WRX Points: 256Posts: 1,502 Platinum Tees
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    I’m able to do everything with a 58 that I used to do with a 60. Much more predictable on the full shots as well.

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  • Lacey UnderallLacey Underall Members  1234WRX Points: 122Posts: 1,234 Platinum Tees
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    I played a 60* for years with good success. It went 100 yards on a full swing and I used it almost exclusively around the greens. Then about a year ago I seemed to lose some distance with it (even though my other club distances remained the same). Could have been a little swing change that caused it to launch even higher.

    Switched to a 58* around that time. I find it much more effective on full or near full swings. Can easily hit it anywhere between 90-105 yards with not nearly as much height. No doubt I'm losing something around the greens though.

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  • VNutzVNutz Members  6850WRX Points: 774Posts: 6,850 Titanium Tees
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    Each person is different so you've got to figure it out for your own game unfortunately. For myself, I've been on the 58* for 15-20 years now. Growing up I was a 60* guy, primarily for chipping around the green, but anything over 40-50 yards was difficult, and full swings a nightmare. I switched to a 58 in the same bounce, grind, etc and I could hit full shots with ease, and half to 3/4 shots just as easily. No more sliding under or scooping shots, no fear of hitting it between 60 and 100 yards on full swings. 100 yards is now a breeze. And around the green I have lost nothing except maybe the super flop that I might have to use but twice a season, and even then you can adjust. Just my .02 but I cannot get by without a 58 now.

    Posted:
  • Hougz79Hougz79 Members  521WRX Points: 157Posts: 521 Golden Tee
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    I too grew up playing a 60, but switched to a 58 about 12 years ago and haven't looked back. Same as others have mentioned, more predictable approach shots (I won't say full because I also don't like to swing my 58 more than 3/4), and gives me the versatility that I need.

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  • SammyShafSammyShaf Members  423WRX Points: 152Posts: 423 Greens
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    I have always had a 60 in the bag until recently. I found that I never hit square faced shots with it, only open cut lobs and pitches. I switched to 54/58 just to see if the wedge guy article about less loft and more consistent distance control would result. I can still hit the high, soft as a broken footed butterfly lobs with a 58 but more importantly I can hit square faced distance wedge shots that I previously delegatef to my 56.

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  • Bill GuyBill Guy Golfbuddy Members  136WRX Points: 39Handicap: 12Posts: 136 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Nov 13, 2019 #26

    In my experience a 60+ wedge is extremely difficult to hit on a full shot and is a high tariff shot at best as you have to be so precise. A 58 is much easier to use both for short and full shots with little or no difference especially if you are able to open the head to create a flop type shot, yet it is much easier to hit a full shot with better penetration. Consider a 50*, 54* and 58* wedge set and practice to establish your distances with half, 3/4 and full swings with each with the ball set in a forward, mid and back position in your stance and when placing your hands in your normal position on the shaft grip and then when moved maybe an inch down so as to shorten the shaft with a resulting reduction in shot distance. Depending on head sole style you can also get further shot types by opening or closing the face. If you record each combination on paper you will find some combinations that travel the same distance, some with a low flight that will travel a bit further on landing and others that will travel higher and stop quickly. Practice each and the bottom line is that I would be surprised if you find any distance or shot type that one of the above will not cover. Most good wedge players will say you will get better results with a low wedge shot wherever possible.

    Posted:
    Post edited by Bill Guy on
  • texcromtexcrom Franklin, TNClubWRX  3703WRX Points: 333Posts: 3,703 ClubWRX
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    I made the mistake a few years ago of moving from a 60 to a 58 degree lob wedge. I though having the 58 from the fairway would give me a weapon I lacked with the 60. I then moved to a 50 and 54 to create proper gapping.

    Unfortunately, the move cost me my strength, which was my short game around the green. I stubbornly kept working with the 58 to no avail, and longer than I should have. It could have been the look of the 58, which visually looked strong to me, or just mental. But I could not get the loft of my shots and the control I have with the 60.

    I finally went back to a 52-56-60 configuration, and literally chipped in from off the green first round back.I am now back to where if I have the 60 in my hands around the green, I seldom bring my putter from the cart.

    But I never use the 60 for more than a 50-60 yard shot, which is just a smooth half swing. Beyond that is a disaster waiting to happen.

    Posted:
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  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members  2481WRX Points: 616Posts: 2,481 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @texcrom said:

    I finally went back to a 52-56-60 configuration...,
    But I never use the 60 for more than a 50-60 yard shot, which is just a smooth half swing. Beyond that is a disaster waiting to happen.

    I hear you. If I try more than half swing, the ball goes mainly higher and wilder.

    Posted:
    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr.
           4i refitted with SteelFiber 780 HLS Hybrid shaft R Flex 75 gr.
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS + MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr.  | Note: MD4 58°/8.C-grind may replace MD/PM
    Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) / 34" w. Ping Pistol PP60 grip (stock)
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperHot - orange
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course and season.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • phil59phil59 phil59 franceMembers  129WRX Points: 76Handicap: 10Posts: 129 Fairways
    Joined:  #29

    if you love your 60 keep your 60

    i have played a long time with 47 52 58 and very rarely with 64 only if conditions are very hard
    this summer i have replaced 58 and 64 by a 60, results are very good for me

    No full shots with the 60 (60 yards max) , i prefer a partial shot with 52

    now i play 58 this winter because the conditions are not good in north of France;
    60 for march or april
    my 60 is a PING Glide 3 Eye 2 , and i love it

    Posted:
    PING G400 10.5° soft-R alta CB
    PING G400 wood soft-R 5 (16.5°) 7 (20°) 9 (23.5°)
    PING G le 2  wood   soft-R 7(27.5°)  9(31.5 °)
    ACER wood 15 XDS 37°  UST mamiya MP 5 senior
    PING I500 soft-R Alta CB 5 - UW    (22,5° 27°  32,5° 37° 42° 47° 52°)
    PING Glide 3 eye2 60° alta CB soft-reg 
    PING Sigma 2  FETCH
  • ZA206ZA206 Members  799WRX Points: 178Handicap: 4.0Posts: 799 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #30

    On -, @Z1ggy16 said:

    Learn to hit your SW and GW 100 yards. I have the same distances as you pretty much, and I literally never hit my LW the full 95-ish yards that it can go. A back pin that's at 100 yards I actually will play a soft knockdown PW, land it hopefully around 90-92, and let it roll out a bit. Middle or front pins at 100, I'll either choke up a an inch or two and hit a full GW or I'll hit a full SW if the hole is playing up hill and/or there's wind at my back.

    II agree with Ziggy. Learn to flight the ball to 100 with your other wedges and stop trying to get the LW to go that distance. You'll become a better player for it. I can hit my 56 SW to EXACTLY 100 yards with three different ball flights for different conditions. I can hit my 50 GW to 100 yards with two different flights. They all have different purposes. I never bother trying to hit my 60 LW to 100 yards.... what's the point?

    -ZA

    Posted:
    TM 2020 SIM 9.0 with Fujikura Ventus Blue - Velocore 60TX
    TM 2019 M5 15 3W  with Fujikura Atmos Blue TS-7X
    TM 2018 M3 19 & 22 Rescue Hybrids with Fujikura Atmos Blue TS-8X
    TM P790 5i with KBS $-Taper S-120
    TM P760 6-PW with KBS $-Taper S-120 Blackout
    TM 50, 55 & 60 Hi Toe with S300
    Odyssey stroke lab 10
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

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  • talktoafadetalktoafade Members  13WRX Points: 21Posts: 13 Bunkers
    Joined:  #31

    If you legitimately and consistently can hit your 50 125-130 yds and your 54 115-120 yds and "can actually control these distances just fine" -- then you've gotta be so frickin' good that it shouldn't make a difference whether you play a 58 or 60 degree wedge. I've never played with anyone who can do that, including scratch or + handicap players.

    Posted:
2

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