Does anyone know if there is any information on how much a putt actually breaks per ft. So for instance on a 12 stimp green it breaks 1/5 inch per foot per degree? I know this if different depending on speed and green but I am wondering if there are some data out there on this. I been looking and haven't found any but thought it might be interesting to understand how putts break more..

I haven't seen any of it, but there must be something like this from Aimpoint. Bear in mind that the angle you're putting from to the slope will impact it too. So a 1­° slope if you're putting at 30° to the angle of the slope will only impact it by a smaller proportion.

> @tiger1873 said:

> Does anyone know if there is any information on how much a putt actually breaks per ft. So for instance on a 12 stimp green it breaks 1/5 inch per foot per degree? I know this if different depending on speed and green but I am wondering if there are some data out there on this. I been looking and haven't found any but thought it might be interesting to understand how putts break more..

This is essentially the basis of the Aimpoint Express system. You have it right, the putt will break proportional to its length, and to the cross slope, with more break on faster greens. Essentially, if everything else is the same, a putt will break through a given angle, no matter how long the putt. But knowing that a putt will break 1 inch per foot of length for a 2% slope (I'm kind of making those numbers up), what do you do then? You have to measure that slope, and the distance to the hole, to get your read. I suppose I could go out and do a bunch of Aimpoint reads and then use a tape measure to transform them into inches per foot per degree, some kind of table, but there's no need. Aimpoint isn't for everyone, but if you want to learn how to apply some math and science, it might be a good fit for you.

I worked this out though not sure if I can still follow my working. The stimp figure gives the basic speed. The ball decelerates at constant rate. For a 10' putt I had a start speed of 6 f/sec end speed 0, average speed of 3 so time is 3.3 sec, accel -1.82 ft/sec/sec. The break is a function of the slope and angle. Not being a walking calculator I think the latter is best allowed for as an approximation. The break is the influence of gravity over the time in that speed sector.

Say a 10' putt with 10" break. In 1 second travels 5.1" breaks 3". In second 2 travels 3.3 breaks 3" in second 3 travels 1.5 breaks 3". In the final .3 second travels

approx .3' breaks 1". I think that is for 2% slope. So broadly a 10' putt breaks 10" a 5 foot putt 7", and a 2' putt 4".

For a 1% slope 10' breaks 5", 5' 3.5", 2' 2".

The important point to me is that the slower the ball is going the longer time gravity has to work so the break is proportionately greater in the final 2-5'. and one can underestimate it on shorter putts unless banging it in. Of course if it goes past the hole it will end up below it. I found this a useful guide even if one still has to estimate the slope fall point etc.

'

> @davep043 said:

> > @tiger1873 said:

> > Does anyone know if there is any information on how much a putt actually breaks per ft. So for instance on a 12 stimp green it breaks 1/5 inch per foot per degree? I know this if different depending on speed and green but I am wondering if there are some data out there on this. I been looking and haven't found any but thought it might be interesting to understand how putts break more..

>

> This is essentially the basis of the Aimpoint Express system. You have it right, the putt will break proportional to its length, and to the cross slope, with more break on faster greens. Essentially, if everything else is the same, a putt will break through a given angle, no matter how long the putt. But knowing that a putt will break 1 inch per foot of length for a 2% slope (I'm kind of making those numbers up), what do you do then? You have to measure that slope, and the distance to the hole, to get your read. I suppose I could go out and do a bunch of Aimpoint reads and then use a tape measure to transform them into inches per foot per degree, some kind of table, but there's no need. Aimpoint isn't for everyone, but if you want to learn how to apply some math and science, it might be a good fit for you.

Used Aimpoint with mixed results. The biggest issue is I noticed speed and while pretty good for putts inside of 10 ft I notice I would get a constant miss on longer putts. Without aim point some those actually drop in.

> @unpc said:

> I worked this out though not sure if I can still follow my working. The stimp figure gives the basic speed. The ball decelerates at constant rate. For a 10' putt I had a start speed of 6 f/sec end speed 0, average speed of 3 so time is 3.3 sec, accel -1.82 ft/sec/sec. The break is a function of the slope and angle. Not being a walking calculator I think the latter is best allowed for as an approximation. The break is the influence of gravity over the time in that speed sector.

> Say a 10' putt with 10" break. In 1 second travels 5.1" breaks 3". In second 2 travels 3.3 breaks 3" in second 3 travels 1.5 breaks 3". In the final .3 second travels

> approx .3' breaks 1". I think that is for 2% slope. So broadly a 10' putt breaks 10" a 5 foot putt 7", and a 2' putt 4".

> For a 1% slope 10' breaks 5", 5' 3.5", 2' 2".

> The important point to me is that the slower the ball is going the longer time gravity has to work so the break is proportionately greater in the final 2-5'. and one can underestimate it on shorter putts unless banging it in. Of course if it goes past the hole it will end up below it. I found this a useful guide even if one still has to estimate the slope fall point etc.

Does grain or humidity (green wetness) ever enter into your equation??

How long does it take for you to reach a conclusion??

I'm in no way dis-respecting this, in fact I'm glad this works for you but personally, this would make my head explode.

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Whatever works, but I'd suggest getting out there and hitting putts square in the face of various lengths working on distance on various greens with various slopes to see and feel differences and leave the pocket protector at home.

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @tiger1873 said:

> > > Does anyone know if there is any information on how much a putt actually breaks per ft. So for instance on a 12 stimp green it breaks 1/5 inch per foot per degree? I know this if different depending on speed and green but I am wondering if there are some data out there on this. I been looking and haven't found any but thought it might be interesting to understand how putts break more..

> >

> > This is essentially the basis of the Aimpoint Express system. You have it right, the putt will break proportional to its length, and to the cross slope, with more break on faster greens. Essentially, if everything else is the same, a putt will break through a given angle, no matter how long the putt. But knowing that a putt will break 1 inch per foot of length for a 2% slope (I'm kind of making those numbers up), what do you do then? You have to measure that slope, and the distance to the hole, to get your read. I suppose I could go out and do a bunch of Aimpoint reads and then use a tape measure to transform them into inches per foot per degree, some kind of table, but there's no need. Aimpoint isn't for everyone, but if you want to learn how to apply some math and science, it might be a good fit for you.

>

> Used Aimpoint with mixed results. The biggest issue is I noticed speed and while pretty good for putts inside of 10 ft I notice I would get a constant miss on longer putts. Without aim point some those actually drop in.

>

>

You still do have to read the putt unless your putting on really simple green complexes.

> @nitram said:

> > @unpc said:

> > I worked this out though not sure if I can still follow my working. The stimp figure gives the basic speed. The ball decelerates at constant rate. For a 10' putt I had a start speed of 6 f/sec end speed 0, average speed of 3 so time is 3.3 sec, accel -1.82 ft/sec/sec. The break is a function of the slope and angle. Not being a walking calculator I think the latter is best allowed for as an approximation. The break is the influence of gravity over the time in that speed sector.

> > Say a 10' putt with 10" break. In 1 second travels 5.1" breaks 3". In second 2 travels 3.3 breaks 3" in second 3 travels 1.5 breaks 3". In the final .3 second travels

> > approx .3' breaks 1". I think that is for 2% slope. So broadly a 10' putt breaks 10" a 5 foot putt 7", and a 2' putt 4".

> > For a 1% slope 10' breaks 5", 5' 3.5", 2' 2".

> > The important point to me is that the slower the ball is going the longer time gravity has to work so the break is proportionately greater in the final 2-5'. and one can underestimate it on shorter putts unless banging it in. Of course if it goes past the hole it will end up below it. I found this a useful guide even if one still has to estimate the slope fall point etc.

>

>

> Does grain or humidity (green wetness) ever enter into your equation??

>

> How long does it take for you to reach a conclusion??

>

> I'm in no way dis-respecting this, in fact I'm glad this works for you but personally, this would make my head explode.

> >

> >

> >

I been working on a calculation and why I am trying to figure out if there is constant break. I am seeing really good accuracy for holes with not much break and holes with a lot break. It's seems that a ball will break about 1/2 to 1 1/1/2 inches per foot. The issue has been medium breaks something seems to be off a bit and I think it may be something in the formula. The green speed is easy you just figure out the speed for the day and assign the roll per feet per slop for the day. You can easily calculate that prior to starting a round

The slope has been easy because I just do what aim point does. When all said and done I am making about 1-2 more long putts a round which I think is significant. If I could figure the medium putts it might be even better. I noticed that you have little margin to error because you can be off by about a cup so it seems to work out to about 15 feet.

> @tiger1873 said:

>

> Used Aimpoint with mixed results. The biggest issue is I noticed speed and while pretty good for putts inside of 10 ft I notice I would get a constant miss on longer putts. Without aim point some those actually drop in.

>

I don't care how good your read is, nobody makes a ton of putts over 10 feet, and especially if speed control is an issue. But to go back to your original post, even if you have a bunch of tables showing break as a function of slope and green speed, you still have to find a way of estimating slope, estimating the green speed, and a method of estimating distance to the hole in order to calculate the break. All that Aimpoint has done is to take those "tables" and develop methods to estimate each of the required variables. And then its still up to the operator to hit the putt on the intended line, at the appropriate speed.

As my rule of thumb, completely independent of stimps, putts at speeds dying into the hole will break roughly 1/4(almost little to none) once halfway to the hole, and will have achieved 1/2 the total break once 3/4 of the way to the hole. This might not sound useful, but it can help in plotting out a couple ball path points when lining up your putt. Ymmv

As we speculate, I went directly to my AimChart (the precursor of Aimpoint Express) Assuming a STIMP of 12 and 1% (not degree) slope. If you are at the 3 o'clock position. With 12 and 6 being up and down/ The Fall Line.

A 20 foot putt will break 13 inches, a 15 foot putt will break 9 inches, a 10 foot putt will break 5 inches and a 5 foot putt will break 1 inch. The grain will have very little impact since the grass has to be very low for a 12 on the Stimp meter. The Humidity, afters the moisture in the grass and thus reduces the STIMP (just like putting on a green that normally Stimps 12 but you are there in the afternoon after a torrential rainfall).

Hope this helps.