US Kids Golf World Championship Boys 7 Mid Pines

I’ll most likely take my kid to Worlds next year (2020). Just wondering if anyone has tips and comments regarding the Mid Pines course/greens for Boys 7. We live in California so we don’t know anything about the different types of grass over there. Thanks!

Keith

MidPines greens are some type of dwarf Bermuda, I think its miniverde there. They tend to be pretty firm, and wear like iron so you won't see many significant ballmarks. I don't feel like they have any real grain, they'll roll pretty true. There are a number of false fronts and roll-offs, true Donald Ross style, so playing to the middle of the green is always a good thing. They usually run reasonably fast, there are a couple of greens where being above the hole is a problem. #7 comes to mind, its two tiers, front and back. There's not much rough, its mostly fairway and sandy waste area, so he should practice chipping from really tight lies, or practice putting from the fairway whenever reasonably possible.

Have fun, MidPines is my favorite course in the area. I'll be down next week, and its on our list. If you have more specific questions, I'll try to pay attention when I'm there.

I'll put in a plug, if you're looking for lodgings. I own a "villa" at Talamore, and I know Talamore participates in the US Kids stuff. Two bedrooms and 2 baths, with a full kitchen, they're pretty nice for a family.

@Kcct82 , My son played in both boys 7 & 8 at Mid Pines the last two years. A few quick notes, but feel free to message me if you want more specifics, happy to give my take.
Greens - I dont recall a ton of grain effecting the ball in the 7 year olds (front 9), but this year for the 8 YO (back 9), the grain was a major factor. I would very likely think that the greens are not different from front to back 9's and that the change was likely just a years difference in conditioning. I don't really know. Either way, the grain certainly presented challenge this year. A few practice rounds should help, but I know that grainy bermuda can be a challenge for someone who has never played on it before. Downgrain is significantly faster than into the grain and cross grain has a really weird pull effect on putts.Approach's- Donald Ross Greens, the front are less demanding that the back, but still you have to be conscious of some "domed" run offs - Middle of the green is usually a good strategy unless you have a wedge or less in hand. Depending on moisture, greens could play hard and be tough to hold. It was very clear kids who could hit the ball High and soft and a clear advantage. # 8, Par 3 - Slightly downhill. This hole was a killer for a lot of people. Long is Dead. The shot is downhill and it proved to be a very tough green to hold. Best play was to play to the front of the green. My son found out the hard way on the last day - hit the perfect shot to middle.... didnt hold and just trickled off back and down the hill....triple bogey took him out of top 10. At a tmnt earlier this year we were playing with the kid who won that year (he also won 6 YO, 7 YO, and 8 YO). We were talking to him and his dad about that hole and they said they played to the very front of that hole , even short of the green, every day regardless of pin position. In hindsight we would of done the same. Lots of "waste" area with compacted/hard pan sand, pinestraw, scrubs. He WILL be in this stuff at some point (there isnt a lot of rough, this stuff sort of serves as the rough) so practice hitting from these kind of lies.There are several uphill approaches were you cannot see the entirety of the green complex. As always, make note of "do not hit" areas, and "safe Miss" areas. Mid Pines is a outstanding golf course and a tough test for this age group. Its cool for them to play on such a renowned track that presents a fair level of challenge.

I agree, I've been over #8, and its not fun, neither is the (relatively deep) bunker in front.. The area short and left is a good miss. Its pretty level all the way from the green left to the tee for #9. Another spot to avoid is the entire right side on #4. There's a tree to interfere if you drive down the right, the green sits a bit diagonal, front left to back right, and there's a big deep bunker fronting the right side. Play the tee shot down the left, and the second shot to the left edge.

If you'd like to see and read a bit about it, this is a good spot: https://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/mid-pines/

Anyone heard when invites will start rolling out for the Worlds?

From what I remember, there isn't a whole lot to the course. It seems to play straight forward. Didn't get a lot of roll on the fwys though.

 

I will say the greens kicked our ass. We are from California too where grain isn't a big factor. At mid pines the grain makes a huge difference not only with break but also speed. There were several putts where my son and I were just flat out confused.

Hello all, thanks for the comments! Ok, so I guess the course wouldn’t be too difficult as long as we play it a couple times beforehand to experience the trap areas. Now on to the greens... we can practice on fast greens here in California, but what can we do to prepare for the grain part? Putting is hard enough already and varying speed/break just sounds awful!

I'm not sure what you can do locally to prepare for the greens there as there is nothing comparable here locally that I've ever played. A few of my friends hired a local caddy during practice rounds who helped a lot in green reading. I thought the added cost was overkill for my son so I passed.

Practice at Riviera. It's the only course in SoCal that I've played with greens where the grain actually makes a difference. Especially the 12th hole... f that hole.

Spend a good bit of time on the practice green there. The green has plenty of sloping areas, so you'll get an idea of the speed variations. Unlike some others, I don't really see a lot of grain effect in the newer dwarf Bermuda grasses, including the mini-verde at MidPines. If anything, it might exaggerate the speed differences between uphill and downhill putts, but I don't see it changing the breaks. I do remember many times where I misread putts at MidPines and across the street at Pine Needles due to some optical trickery, which I don't think is too unusual for Ross courses. Since I've started using Aimpoint I've gotten a bit better, so you might consider just trying to "feel" slopes with your body.

Really bro? Set it up and I'll be there.

Hi, how much did it cost your friends? I’m thinking we can just have a caddy run through 9 holes with us (approximately 2 hours), and maybe I can get my kid’s local tour buddies to split the cost.

Thanks, but the course seems to be private and I don’t know anyone there lol.

Hi thanks, that’s good to know and we’ll definitely putt like crazy on the practice green. I just hoped there was something we could do around town to address the problem before flying out there.

Block can get you on before me.

When it comes to Bermuda greens you really need to just play on them but if your in town early enough you may want to get a local pro for quick lesson or like you mentioned they may be able to get you a caddy for the practice round. This would be a huge help in learning the course and how to play on Bermuda.

 

I would also look on YouTube for tips lots of stuff on reading grains too. Golf though is very different in different regions to play and it just isn’t the greens.

This is an interesting one, from scientists who actually study grass: "No, grain grows downhill. This is due to various factors. Grain follows the direction of surface water. Additionally, regardless of the mowing direction, the roller and the drum on a mower will flatten the turf in the direction of the slope. "

I'm freshly back from Southern Pines, and wanted to bring some experiences from my round at MidPines last week. First, the fairways had been overseeded, and were being watered to grow the new grass. You won't have that during the US Kids event in the summer. Similarly, many bunkers were pretty wet and firm, they'll be back to more normal in the summer. But the greens were just about perfect. They are relatively sloping in many spots, and pretty dang fast. I did see a few spots where the edges of the cup gave an indication of the grain direction, and it generally went downhill. The same was true of the shiny/dark indicator for grain, it would often change color right at the top of a slope. The effect of the grain, if any, was to increase break (always downhill), increase the speed of downhill putts, and decrease the speed uphill. In essence, the grain functioned to make any slope play "steeper".

For someone new to the area, the single biggest change to normal routine would be to putt from well off the greens. The fairways are typically kept very tight, and there is just about no rough at Mid Pines. Putting works pretty reliably from fairway grass, chipping or pitching has to be extremely precise. If you're further away, you'll be on either firm bare sand, or pine straw.

Hi, thanks for the update and new insights!

Happy to do it, this is one of my favorite courses, in one of my favorite parts of the world, I hope you and your kid have a great time!