when can you hit a provisional?

Thought about this after seeing Rahm hit a provisional on ? 15th hole yesterday when commentators thought ball was probably not lost but that he wanted to hit a provisional anyway to practice his swing. To what degree does one have to be fearful the ball is lost to hit a provisional or can you essentially do it on any shot? OTOH a few times/year one hits a good shot but can not find a ball - maybe stolen by bird or glances off tree, so maybe one can hit a provisional anytime one likes?

It's really no more complicated than the Rule provides:

18.3 Provisional Ball

a. When Provisional Ball Is Allowed

If a ball might be lost outside a penalty area or be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 14.6).

For a ball that might be lost, this applies:

When the original ball has not been found and identified and is not yet lost, and

When a ball might be lost in a penalty area but also might be lost somewhere else on the course.

But if the player is aware that the only possible place the original ball could be lost is in a penalty area, a provisional ball is not allowed and a ball played from where the previous stroke was made becomes the player’s ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance.https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=18&subrulenum=3

You may be asking who decides. For the most part, the player decides. (See Rule 1.3b2 for a good explanation.) Those playing with him or her may have helpful information or biased/unbiased opinions. In the event of a dispute the Committee will do their best to ascertain the facts and then apply the Rule.

thanks - but I do not think this answers the question. The ball might be lost after any long shot surely?

You can play a provisional if you think your ball may be lost or may be out of bounds, in order to save time, instead of walking back to the spot of the previous stroke. Rule 1.2a, acting with integrity, answers your question.

so I wonder if Rahm did because I think he was told the ball was OK (but not sure exact timing)

If the commentators said what you tell us they said, they were wrong. You cannot play a provisional if you know your ball is not lost or out of bounds. To do so for practice would be breaking Rule 5.5a:https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-5#5-5

But as long as you think your ball might be lost or out of bounds, you should play a provisional in order, as said above, to save time. That is not a practice stroke.

yeah - not sure the exact timing. The commentators may have known but not him....

I don't know what you mean by "timing", but I think you have all the answers to your question by now.

YES, THANKS

A) You can't trust commentators

B) They thought that it was probably okay, which also means that it might not have been okay, in which case JR is justified in hitting a provisional.

You can't trust commentators because they are paid to fill the time with words, so they spew whatever BS comes to mind at the moment..

Plus the commentators have access to different views than what the players do so they can see where the ball is when a player is blocked out by elevation or vegetation.

I've played with guys who hit revisionals anytime they please (don't count that)............

In 2020 w/ new rules of golf you can do it whenever you want by simply scoring the round as a 'recreational round'.... no rules required.... no posting required.... free provisionals

What are the "new Rules of golf" for 2020? Can you provide a source?

Thank God because I'm going broke paying for provisionals.

Colin L. Nov 24, 2019If the commentators said what you tell us they said, they were wrong. You cannot play a provisional if you know your ball is not lost or out of bounds. To do so for practice would be breaking Rule 5.5a:If he knew that his ball was not lost or out of bounds the second ball played would have been played under 18.1 (see rule 18.3a). Therefore the second ball would be the ball in play, lying 3. If instead of playing the second ball, he played the original ball, he would have played a wrong ball. If he hadn't corrected the mistake of playing a wrong ball before teeing off on the next hole, he would be disqualified.

Conflation with new world handicaps methinks

Could you expand your comment with more detail, please?

Conflation with new world handicaps methinks

Yeah I suppose that in 2020 when handicap rules change you can decide anytime during your round to categorize it as a 'recreational' round of golf which isn't required to be posted. So, for apparently all the vanity handicaps out there, I imagine the assumption is that when the fancy pants +2 vanity handicap suddenly pops one OB on the back nine he will do what all spineless cheats do and declare the round a 'recreational' round so he won't have to post it. I predict he would then hit his provisional and then pick up putts and drop practice balls, etc.

Well, I didn't declare my round last week as 'recreational' (i.e., practice round) until I lost my 6th ball, and not 1 of them in a hazard or OOB.  Every bit of ground is covered in leaves and even if you know the particular area, you can't find your ball; or worse when it ricochets off the branches and you don't know which way it went, it's under the leaves somewhere.  Glad to see our club got the leaf mowers/suckers out there.  We had a quick shot of ice cold weather that made many of the leaves drop simultaneously in a shorter time than they normally do. Sorry about that, call it vanity if you want, but when there's 4-6-inches deep leaves all over the place...just frustrating as hell.  I don't mind losing a 'few balls' in an area where you would normally be able to find them, but it's just crazy out there the last few weeks.

Reading these last comments makes me reflect on the requirement in in CONGU countries to pre-register if we intend to return a general play score for handicap purposes and to have it attested by a marker. That's how it is now and will continue to be with the WHS. It gives control to the player In that he or she can decide in advance not to return a score for any reason - adverse conditions, sore shoulder, argument with their partner that morning, whatever. At the same time it means that once committed to returning a score, the player has to do so: there is no mid-round choice of giving up up quietly because their game is falling apart. The idea is that a score for handicapping be made under "competition conditions" and that plus the requirement to have a marker arguably makes for greater rigour.

A downside is that many players at the moment return only the minimum of 3 scores a year and those who are ageing and whose golf is declining as a result can be seriously under handicapped. That won't automatically be changed by the WHS and I haven't yet come up with a way of motivating people to return more scores.

Pay them ?

In cash or a wee dram at the bar.

If you've signed up for a competitive round and injure yourself after 12 holes, do you post a nine hole score?

there is mid-round choice of giving up up quietly because their game is falling apart.@Colin L do you mean there is NO mid-round choice?

There are three possible situations in CONGU unless card is not returned at all. I which case DQ. and possible increase in exact handicap of 0.1.

1) 18 hole medal

Not holing out - DQ. No affect on handicap.2) 18 hole stableford

No DQ - Credited with NDB for incomplete holes for handicap or no affect on handicap.3) Pre-declared Supplementary Score - stableford (only)

No DQ - Credited with NDB for incomplete holes for handicap or no affect on handicap.The Committee, at their discretion, may or may not ignore the card for handicap purposes.

I did indeed.

Any idea (or estimate) of the percentage of players that submit the minimum of three rounds per year?

Do three rounds per year really represent the ability of the player?

As a rough estimate, <10% enter fewer than 3 cards. This taken from sampling out national database where <3 are highlighted. I cannot isolate the 3 only players. <3 means they haven't got a competition status.

No.

By far the majority at the top end of the handicap range (25 plus)