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Getting fit before you know your swing is set?


jjfcpa

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I had an iron fitting at Club Champion in October and they recommended a set of Rogue X irons. During the fitting, I did a warm up with my Apex CF19's gamers and then established some baseline numbers with them. The first irons that I hit were the Rogue X and they did seem to provide better metrics - distance slightly longer, spin was better, and launch angle was a little higher. After returning home, I received the Rogue X in the mail and started doing some comparisons with my CF19's. I was surprised to find that the CF19's were on par with the Rogue X.

I also made a slight swing change because I was having trouble with a snap hook and realized that my swing plane was a little too flat and in my attempt to get more distance, the flatter swing plane was making me swing the club a little too much to the left. All my efforts to correct it were in vain until I steeped my swing plane and then everything fell into place. Much better dispersion, much better consistence, and a little more distance to boot.

Since then, I've done lots of comparisons with the CF19's and Rogue X and the CF19's just seem to be better in all respects. This really makes me question the value of the fitting that I had because now I have a set of Rogue X's that I probably will never play. This also makes me wonder about the other clubs that I tried at CC and whether they would have performed better if I had put a better swing on them?

I've had 3 fittings in the past and for the most part they have all gone the same way. Half inch shorter shaft, lie adjustment about the same on all, and a lightweight shaft.

I think this begs the question on whether it makes sense to get fit every time you think about getting new clubs? The only really cool thing about CC was the ability to hit a number of different clubs with different shafts - I think I hit 7-8 different heads with 5-6 different shafts. In the end, I could have predicted the shaft and adjustments to the head.

Anyone had a similar experience?

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Last fall/summer I was fit for a new driver by a fitter very similar to CC but was on an open range. We opened up with a quick warm up and baseline #s with my driver at the time. I tried out a number of head/shaft combos and we tweaked the club to about 10-15 carry yards gained with better dispersion than my baseline numbers. I took my new boom stick to the course and quickly found out it wasn't going any further than my 6 year old driver (shorter if anything). The fitter was kind enough to provide me with the launch monitor numbers from the fitting so I gave them a closer look. From the fitting I saw my swingspeed and ballspeed consistently increase as the fitting progressed. It then flatlined and eventually decreased. What this told me was that my baseline numbers were skewed towards "warm-up" "not loose" swings and as I warmed up my speed increased (marginal gains across the board) then eventually I fatigued and slowed back down.

You may have experienced something similar. I bet that your marginal improvements could be correlated to being more loose and comfortable, especially when coming from an up to date model like the CF19s. Ultimately it seems like you have a consistent swing year to year so your end results and adjustments (ie, length, lighter shaft, lie, etc) would remain fairly consistent. In any case I think it's important to actively compare an old club to a new one during a fitting (throw in 5 swings with the old gamer mid fitting)

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fitting is interesting. I think often times average joe who isn’t on here and knowledgeable about the tech side of things goes into a fit and hits clubs a bit further and thinks they’ve struck gold. For me, I had watched enough TXG fits and read enough on here that I had a good awareness of what I should be looking for and what I’d end up in. I’ll generally go demo clubs and then when I actually did my fit it was more of a reinforcement of what I know. I knew I’d get fit into a blade and that my shafts would likely be what I’ve had success with through trial and error. That’s what the fitter did and it took away the second guessing that I would’ve done if I’d just bought them and started to play. If I have a bad round it’s just a bad round - not the clubs. Results will yield different things for different golfers at different levels. My swing is reasonably consistent and it’s more about comfortability. Others might have game changing contact differences depending on weight and flex etc. I went and hit a bunch of different combos at the Golftown demo day (essentially a bunch of custom ordered clubs that never got picked up) including lighter weight X Shafts, heavier X in GI heads and all sorts of different stuff. Aside from small spin and distance differences due to loft, they all did the exact same thing for me. The only difference was I couldn’t knock height off the GI heads as easily. I think comfort is what matters. I love DG x100 and it’s what I make the best contact with as it feels best to me. I can play that shaft in almost any head. Fitting has value but you need to test outdoors as well. My last fit didn’t translate to course. Hit my new combo outside and it was much better.

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Hey OP, I am a proponent that all golfers need to get fit to find their base lines. From the get go, as they evolve consider fitting if they find themselves evolving beyond their base line.

 

Examples.

1) Kids, They grow fast, length and lie angles change much faster, so the affects of these may play a bigger role in their consistency in a short period of time (Strength/speed may change as well, so flex and shaft weight may also be a factor)

2) Base line clubs. the new Golfer gets a set of graphite or lightweight steel shafts in regular flex with SGI heads. But what if this new golfer was a prior baseball player. To which they have an above average swing speed and fast tempo. The 85-95gram shafts in regular flex will NOT do them any justice, nor help them evolve. It may even hinder them by starting them off with bad habits just to get them to hit the ball. (Yes there are anomalies, but that is what the initial fittings are for) So getting that base fitting to find your natural tendencies and get a focused base line setup that matches your base swing profile (Tempo (Shaft weight), Speed (Flex profile), physical attributes (length and lies)

3) When I say base line, as a golfer your swing profile (Tempo and swing speed) May not change too much over the years outside of age (But some may still maintain or increase sure) (Physical attributes as adults may not change much either, height and arm lengths) So once you narrow down your swing profile, changing or anticipating change (drastic) by club setup may be a negative effect. I see it all the time, where an older player (decent player) buys in to the I need a graphite shaft or a lighter shaft "because im older". Yet their swing speed is still high, tempo is still quick yet the only reason is to chase distance that they have lost over the years. And they spray MORE with the lighter setup but sure will poke a couple further than they normally do, Yet the setup does not match their base profile.

 

Fitting every time when you buy a new set wont hurt you, But being realistic of what your intent is, is the bigger factor. Most time when I see a new club purchase (box Store) its to find "distance" rather than any type of consistency. So its great when they hand a guy in the next bay over a strong lofted 7iron with a lightweight shaft and they hit it 10 yards farther than their current 7 iron (yet its lofted like their 6 iron) And then they dont look at the horrible dispersion as the fitter is saying "You still need to get used to it, but look how much farther you hit it?"

 

Anyways.... Point being, Find your swing profile,

1) Swing speed to match the shaft flex,

2) Tempo to match the shaft weight

3) Distance gaps - Lofts (Thus club head design SGI, GI, CB, MB)

4) Launch conditions - Height and Spin (Again club head design)

5) Length/Lie (this is assumed)

Once you zero in those.... staying within these profiles will possible match your consistency better. AGAIN, if you NOTICE a big change to the above due to a swing change then sure you should go refit to address those changes above.... But fitting every time you buy new clubs, yet, your swing speed hasnt changed, your tempo hasnt changed, your distance hasnt changed (out side of stronger lofts) Then in reality whats the point?

 

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Agree with everything that has been posted.

Additionally, for those that will go in for fittings, I would imagine that many of them are also taking lessons and making swing changes. Even the pros make small swing changes, but they rarely will change their shafts. When they do, it tends to make some decent news on this forum.

The above is totally correct with regard to tempo to match shaft weight and strength for flex. Launch conditions can change a bunch during or after fits. I used to scoop a bit at the ball and would present too much dynamic loft, now I'm a bit more forward press through the swing. Not much, but now I can control whether my 7i launches at 19* or 16* to promote the flight I want. Because I learned to do that with my shaft, I can translate that into my game. If I did a fitting with scooping, the fitter would try to match me into a lower launching shaft and higher VCOG iron. Vice versa if I used a lot of press.

I was just toying around with the Mizuno shaft optimizer, and essentially that thing kept putting me in 115g shafts, whether it be C taper lite X (115) vs PX 5.5 (115) vs Modus 105X (112) vs Modus 120S (114). Those are all fairly different shafts with very different bend profiles, which tells me its just shaft weight for my smooth swing more than anything. And since my current gamer shaft is 115g, I decided to stick there since they feel great as is.

The most important thing is to be fit into the right shaft weight/flex, and then find a head that does what you want. But since your swing will change as you improve/change your swing, your irons may have to change as well over time. But that's why we get to club ho

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Fittings should be done on real turf. Outside. Period. You hear your shots better and you have a better feel of the club and your swing.

Smashing balls in a bay in a dark room, against a screen just doesnt give us the same "feel". Sometimes after about 20-30 balls every shaft starts to play mind tricks in your head, and you start to adjust your swing subconsciously to get a better strike, then you're trying to give feedback to the fitter then you lose focus, then you blame it the ball sitting on a 10 yr old mat thats harder than your morning wood.. etc etc.. point of my story is, take the demo shaft out on the course if possible. If they dont let you, run out of the store with it.

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@jjfcpa ,
First, sell off the Rogue X irons while they are still a hot item. The pro I work with says golfers are quick to gauge the value of the Rogue X. They either like them or they don't. He often has a used RX set for sale which someone had traded back in quickly.
Another pro I worked with in years past had this advice for golfers: "Get fit for the swing you have today, not the one you hope to have next year." In you case, you noticed a swing exaggeration and fixed it. And, you could suddenly hit the CF19s better than the Rogue X.
As far as hitting off mats goes, that's what you get unless you are lucky enough to find an outdoor range that does fittings. But, not all mats are created equal. I'm fortunate to have local golf shops that replace the mats regularly, and have slots so you can adjust the tee height if you're testing drivers.
And, I can tell if I hit the shot a little fat - the mat impact feels spongy rather than crisp. And Trackman can tell too - the shot registers about 15 yards short of normal.

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Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° (base loft); weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

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Some good opinions going on here.

The only thing I'll add is that you should always revisit your actual clubs during a fitting once you've hit a few options, as many have pointed out you are warmed up and speed is up and most likely strike is better.

It's very easy to beat your numbers when you've only hit a handful of balls compared to a few dozen or more.

 

Wan

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Im reworking 7 wood 3 wood and driver.I use baseline yardage markers on 4th 6th 7th 8th 9th holes

where i play.Simple stuff.

Howard made for me a very powerful statement 3ish months ago.Video face expression hitting driver etc...does it show an easy smile or a gorilla gritting his teeth under stress !!!=too stiff . Thanks Howard.

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If someone were to ask me about fitting, my response is pay for a fitting but do not buy clubs, especially if he/she already has an old set. If not, he/she can buy an inexpensive used set and have someone apply the fitting data and use them until such time as the swing is more consistent. The more prevalent concern is on fitting day not knowing if the "fitter" is pushing what clubs he has access to just to pay coming bills. Also, what happens on fitting day doesn't mean the data will be the same a week later.

Just pay for a fitting. He/she can always go back later for new clubs or find what you like at the LGS and have them apply the fitting specs.

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