Houston Astros - Cheaters

 fillwelix ·  
fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
Joined:  in The 19th Hole #1

Has anybody been keeping up with the Astros cheating scandal?

What do you think should happen to them given it was endorsed and implemented from the top down?

What do you think about the organization as a whole with the Taubman scandal as well?

Is this worse than the 1919 black sox scandal?

Posted:
WITB
Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
Taylormade Spider X Tour

Houston Astros - Cheaters

Sign in to vote!
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
«134
4

Comments

  • bking556bking556 Members  217WRX Points: 131Handicap: InfinitePosts: 217 Fairways
    Joined:  #2

    I don't even know how I feel. I'm a Dodgers fan. Not just someone who roots for the team, but I watch nearly every game and even follow the minor leagues and the up and coming prospects during the season. I was at Game 1 of that World Series. I could have another set of clubs for what I spent on that ticket.

    Whatever happens, while I don't think the Astros deserve to be call World Series Champions, I definitely do NOT want the title handed to the Dodgers if it is indeed vacated. The Dodgers had every chance to win that World Series, even with the Astros cheating. Regardless, they still did not win it.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • highergr0undhighergr0und Members  10259WRX Points: 298Posts: 10,259 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #3

    I want to understand how prevalent the sign stealing is in the league before I want to pass judgement.

    Posted:
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #4
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    Yep. I'm a Yankees fan who watches almost every regular season game and every postseason game. I feel like we were both robbed of a Yankees/Dodgers world series because of their cheating, and you're right, they shouldn't hand the title to LA, just vacate it and it will be like '94, no champion.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers  29458WRX Points: 2,389Handicap: 0.0Posts: 29,458 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #5

    The Expos won in 1994

    It's like the Patriots scandals . Maybe theyll be fined a draft pick or something . No major sports league is going to vacate a title. It just wont happen.

    Ban management and players for life? Why dont you put "send the players to prison moon base on Jupiter and have them harvest dark matter for black hole research" ....that is literally just as likely to happen

    Posted:
    Cobra King F9 w/Fujikura Atmos TS Black 7
    Cobra King F9 w/Matrix Black Tie 80
    Callaway Apex 20 w/Diamana D+ 95
    Ping G410 4-SW w/S300
    Callaway MD 2.0 60 PM grind w/S300
    SGC NorthWood Center Shaft 400g
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #6
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    Okay so the Patriots just got caught cheating again so the punishment was obviously not harsh enough

    And the Black Sox scandal had all the players involved banned for life and banned from the hall of fame. I think cheating for the entire season to win a world series is worse than taking money to throw it

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • highergr0undhighergr0und Members  10259WRX Points: 298Posts: 10,259 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #7

    Remember that sign stealing in of itself is not illegal. Certain rules now in place were not there in 2017. Did they gain an advantage? Probably. But if everyone else is trying to do it and they're simply better does that mean they should get a bigger punishment?

    I in no way find that stealing signs is even close to throwing a WS for betting reasons..... It's not even in the same realm.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #8
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    It has always been illegal to use technology to steal signs. They used technology to steal signs for the entire season.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • highergr0undhighergr0und Members  10259WRX Points: 298Posts: 10,259 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #9

    Actually MLB just instituted the rule to prevent cameras from being used in the outfield before last season. The red sox got burned in 2017 for using technology in the dugout, but the Astros weren't doing that. But Yankees were fined as well for illegal use of the dugout phone.

    It's a relatively shady thing but it all circles back to my point that all teams try to do it - just one got better at it than the most.

    Posted:
  • FairwaysToHeavenFairwaysToHeaven Members  3565WRX Points: 283Handicap: 5Posts: 3,565 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #10

    mlb needs to come down hard. using technology to cheat ...you have to send a strong message to every team out there.

    vacate the world series, strip the next 5 years first round picks.

    Posted:
    Ping G400 LST 10 w/ Hzrdus Black 6.0 75g
    TM M2 3HL w/ Rogue Black 70 S
    Cobra F8 19*
    J15CB w/ Modus 120X 4-P
    Cleveland RTX3 CB 50 54 58
    TM Spider Tour Black w/ T-sightline 36" 
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #11
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    Exactly. As we JUST saw with the Patriots, if the punishment isn't harsh enough they'll just do it again. I'm sure if you ask a team's fanbase if they'd trade a few draft picks and a fine for a world series ring, they'd say yes. You need to vacate the title, ban people, etc. so no other team does this kind of thing again.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • highergr0undhighergr0und Members  10259WRX Points: 298Posts: 10,259 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #12

    You assume MLB actually wants all sign stealing to stop....

    They banned tech in the dugout a few years back and the camera in the outfield this year. But why haven't they given the catcher and pitcher a mic and earpiece?

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #13
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    If you can get on second base and figure out the signs, and relay them to the hitter in real time, then that's totally fine and I'm all for it. If you can watch a pitcher and figure out his tell if he's tipping pitches, I love that. Little nuances like that are part of what makes baseball a mind game as well as a physical game. Using technology in your home park to give you an unfair advantage that the other team has no access to is abhorrent.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • bking556bking556 Members  217WRX Points: 131Handicap: InfinitePosts: 217 Fairways
    Joined:  #14

    Well said. This about sums up how I feel also. There's something different about a runner on 2nd being able to be keen enough to decipher pitcher/catcher signs versus simply using a camera in the outfield no one knows about.

    Posted:
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers  29458WRX Points: 2,389Handicap: 0.0Posts: 29,458 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #15

    Is MLB still investigating this and is there any punishment coming?

    Posted:
    Cobra King F9 w/Fujikura Atmos TS Black 7
    Cobra King F9 w/Matrix Black Tie 80
    Callaway Apex 20 w/Diamana D+ 95
    Ping G410 4-SW w/S300
    Callaway MD 2.0 60 PM grind w/S300
    SGC NorthWood Center Shaft 400g
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #16
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    Still investigating, we know a ton of players, managers, staff, etc. have been interviewed but they haven't said anything about punishment

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • Jack_HJack_H Think people. Think. south carolinaMembers  30858WRX Points: 7,113Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,858 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Dec 29, 2019 #17

    I don’t know much about this. But. The poll needs a “ do nothing , it’s not a big deal “ option to be fair.


    If all they did was steal signs , that’s called baseball. Been going on since the game started. You’re just seeing today’s tech being used. In spirit it’s not different.

    Posted:
    TM SIM max 10.8 Fuji Ventus red 6x 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3- PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  54 60 s400
    Cameron GSS 1.5 009. Sound slot,  tungsten weights. 


  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • Jack_HJack_H Think people. Think. south carolinaMembers  30858WRX Points: 7,113Handicap: NONEPosts: 30,858 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #18

    I honestly had the same thought before I read you saying it. Easy to combat. Just give the catcher and pitcher earpieces. Done.

    Posted:
    TM SIM max 10.8 Fuji Ventus red 6x 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3- PW   Modus 130X 
    Ping Glide Forged  54 60 s400
    Cameron GSS 1.5 009. Sound slot,  tungsten weights. 


  • ShilgyShilgy PhoenixMembers  12306WRX Points: 1,431Handicap: 3.2Posts: 12,306 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #19

    And now they are investigating the Red Sox as well. As many have said sign stealing is a baseball tradition. Even with video someone needs to pick up and relay the signs. A lot of the Astros sign stealing really was being observant and catching pitchers that tipped their pitches.


    do nothing would have been a great poll option.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • highergr0undhighergr0und Members  10259WRX Points: 298Posts: 10,259 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #20

    Well I guess MLB decided to take a stand. Dropped the hammer today. Can't say that I totally agree if they were suspended for an infraction that wasn't illegal when they did it, but oh well. MLB has a history doing that.


    Look out Red Sox now and any other team!!!

    Posted:
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 13, 2020 7:19pm #21
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    This is such a slap on the wrist punishment.

    They've effectively said that the price of a championship is $5M, some draft picks, and sit out for 1 year. Ridiculous.


    And it was illegal when they did it. You're not (and were not) allowed to use technology to create an unfair advantage. Having a camera in CF that only the home team has access to is cheating. Plain and simple. There was no runner on 2nd base decoding the signs and relaying in real time, not figuring out a pitcher's tell. This was sign stealing by a camera relayed in real time from the dugout with nobody on base.

    It's against the rules of the game and was against the rules in 2017.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members  3646WRX Points: 1,070Posts: 3,646 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #22

    I wonder what the value of a first round pick is.

    $10M? Maybe more?

    that plus the suspensions seem like a pretty serious deterrent.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #23
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    I think if you go back and tell the fans what the punishment is and ask them if they want to do it anyway, all of them would say yes. The revenue from the world series alone is way more than the $5M+draft picks. Jose Altuve won the MVP award because the cheating made his batting average higher than Judge (who beat Altuve in almost every other category). The amount of money the Astros made from winning that world series far outweighs the punishment. The fanbase getting to keep the ill-gotten championship makes it worth it in their minds.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members  3646WRX Points: 1,070Posts: 3,646 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #24

    You could tell the fans the punishment was $100M (or even $100B) and they’d still say yes. ;)

    I think the punishment was severe enough that nobody is going to try this again.

    Posted:
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #25
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    I don't know...the fact that none of the players are getting punished at all (even though the report says the scheme was largely player-driven) just makes me think that any team who wants to win enough will just do it again.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • FairwaysToHeavenFairwaysToHeaven Members  3565WRX Points: 283Handicap: 5Posts: 3,565 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #26

    have to agree.... could double the punishment to $10M and 8 draft picks and that would be more fitting. sounds like both gm and coach have been fired as well. pete rose was banned for life for placing bets on his team...

    Posted:
    Ping G400 LST 10 w/ Hzrdus Black 6.0 75g
    TM M2 3HL w/ Rogue Black 70 S
    Cobra F8 19*
    J15CB w/ Modus 120X 4-P
    Cleveland RTX3 CB 50 54 58
    TM Spider Tour Black w/ T-sightline 36" 
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 13, 2020 8:29pm #27
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    That's what I don't get, they've banned people for less. And the fact that none of the players are getting punished despite being the apparent masterminds of this (with Alex Cora). Cora's punishment is still pending the Red Sox investigation but he might get the biggest punishment of all these guys.


    Also apparent that junior level employees in the clubhouse were taking orders from players yet the players aren't being punished.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members  3646WRX Points: 1,070Posts: 3,646 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #28


    Could the players coordinate something like that without management knowing? Seems unlikely.

    I agree that the players should have been punished, but I’m sure Manfred is very wary of tangling with the Union.

    Posted:
  • fillwelixfillwelix Boston AreaMembers  1514WRX Points: 370Posts: 1,514 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #29
    Vacate World Series, disband team

    Yeah the union is 100% why the players weren't punished. But according to the report management (Luhnow, Hinch, Cora, etc.) all knew it was going on but didn't stop it.

    Posted:
    WITB
    Taylormade SIM 9.5* Ventus Black 6X
    Taylormade SIM 15* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade SIM 19* Graphite Design AD-DI 7X
    Taylormade P760 4-PW Modus 3 Tour 120 S
    Taylormade MG 52 KBS Tour-V 130 S
    Taylormade Hi-Toe 58 & 64 KBS Hi Rev Wedge
    Taylormade Spider X Tour
  • jholzjholz Members  1735WRX Points: 525Handicap: 7.4Posts: 1,735 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #30

    I don't follow MLB too closely, so forgive my ignorance. But, I'm having trouble separating out all the actors and incidents here.


    So, Alex Cora was a bench coach for Houston in 2017 and has been implicated in the cheating scandal. Then, it appears that he was trying to do the same thing in 2018 as the manager for the Red Sox? Is that right?


    For the record, I much prefer college baseball to MLB. The major league game is a mere shadow of what baseball should be.

    Posted:
    Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
    Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
    or
    Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
    Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
    or
    Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
    Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
    5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
    Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 50* DG Wedge
    Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 54* DG Wedge
    Callaway X-Series JAWS Slate CC 58* Stock Wedge
    Odyssey White Ice #7 - Golf Pride Oversize
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • VNutzVNutz Members  6657WRX Points: 612Posts: 6,657 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jan 13, 2020 9:11pm #31

    The report seems to indicate that Cora was the in charge of the implementation for a lot of the cheating that was done in 2017, then perhaps took it to Boston in 2018.

    Posted:
4

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.