My Driver Fitting - Your Thoughts

Got fitted today in the UK for a Ping G410 LST Driver (Project X Evenflow Black 75 stiff shaft).

Purpose of the fitting was to:

(1) Reduce spin (struggle to get this below 3100, and at worst getting up towards 4000, with current gamer: Callaway XR speed - Diamana S+ 60 shaft; SS c108-111mph on Trackman)

(2) Attempt to mitigate/mange my bad shot (a slice)

(3) Achieve a more penetrating launch

(4) Unlock more distance

G410 LST Results (weight in draw setting)

+5 yards average total distance on initial sample of five shots with LST vs gamerSpin down to 2500-3000More penetrating launch & tighter dispersion Later shot batches: Best Shot - 251 carry for 289 total. Several others totalling in the 240-250s even with a slice. Straighter shots went further.Would appreciate your thoughts on the following:

A. My CHS was 3-4mph slower (105mph) with the 75g Evenflow shaft vs another 65g HZRDUS shaft that I tested on the day. Would it be worth considering trying to get the Evenflow Black 65g shaft to crank-up my CHS? What factors do I need to consider?

B. My fitting was indoors (only 3-4m space into the hitting net - the fitting booth didn’t feel that spacious) on a GC2. Is there any concensus about how much CHS speed is generally lost indoor vs outdoor?

C. My fitter told me that most people experience a +5% increase in on-course distances vs. the numbers obtained via their simulator. Conscious this may be context-specific, but is this a known thing with GC2?

Thanks - Chris

1) "Upwards of 4000 RPM". Been there, done that. Sounds like a negative angle of attack. Here's a current thread you might want to look at. https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1804318/driver-type-for-negative-aoa#latest

2) Path/swing fix. And a slicing ball typically exaggerates the spin issue. i.e. slices goes high and spins 4000. ball goes straight and spin is 3300 (old club of course).

3) Don't be too sure. You don't mention your launch angle. Typically HIGH launch + LOW spin = MAX distance. You probably s/b in the 14-15* launch angle.

4) Yeah,,,,,, well,,,,,,, who doesn't want more distance ? LOL

A) Evenflow Black 75 is definitely better that your Diamana S+. Should launch lower and spin less. The 75 is probably costing you a few MPH but if it's considerably more stable than the 65, a few mph isn't worth less control.

B & C) Don't know about SS measurements between the indoor GC2 and outdorr but distance-wise I found that the indoor GC2 and what I tend to experience outside, as best I can tell, the carry is very close.

First thing is consistent center strikes. 2nd is control of the face/path. 3rd is swing speed. Unless the heavier shaft is costing you too many yards, which only YOU can judge, generally speaking, the heavier the shaft, the more control you should feel you're getting. That said, at 105 or so you should probably still feel comfortable with the 65 and the bump up to 108+.

If you're not hitting the center of the face often enough you might want to try a bit shorter shaft. You don't have to cut down the shafts when you demo them. Just choking up on the shaft should give you a good idea. Most drivers today are playing (stock) somewhere in the 45.5-46 inch ranges. Try one at about 44.5 or so. I did it and it definitely made a difference. I'm playing my EFSZ at 44.75 and finding the center of the face a lot more often. I demo'd a leftover (from the Rogue line) Hzrdus Yellow 6.5 70 gram weight class shaft. At my puny 93 MPH SS no fitter in his right mind would even hand me that shaft. Way too heavy and stiff for me but,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I hit it great. When it came time to pull the trigger though I couldn't see myself hitting an "X" at 70 grams so I chickened out and go the 6.0 60 weight. Zero difference.

The 410 LST is a fade biased club. Your draw setting should mitigate some of that slice but of course can't cure it. The regular 410 isn't fade biased but it should spin a bit more.

If you're not "wed" to PING, try the other current offerings. TM M5/M6, Cally Epic Flash, Titleist and the Cobra F9 (which seemed to be THE WRX favorite since the beginning of '19. For me personally, the M5 was too low spin and the Titleists and Cobra I was just not consistent enough with. Frankly, the current shaft offerings from Cally didn't work well for me with the EFSZ. I got "lucky" finding that Hzrdus Yellow leftover demo shaft and it worked better than any of the others.

Thing is, shaft and heads aren't easy to match up. I had a Hzrdus Black (6.0/60) in my previous Fusion drive. Great combo. Tried the black in the EFSZ head (I mean why not ? If it worked I could just buy the EFSZ head LOL) and it didn't work nearly as well as the Yellow. Just for kicks I put the Yellow in my old Fusion. Same thing - combo no good. Go figure.

It's Winter. Keep trying different combos. Good luck

Could be the Diamana 60 S+ is just too light. Did you try a heavier Diamana and shorter shaft? I mean, Tiger Woods tees off with a Diamana Whiteboard — they are plenty stable if you have the right one. I went through the same issues you did and I found a shorter shaft improved my center strikes and also resolved my OTT/open face at impact.

I really like the Diamana shafts and I found by solving the other issues, the shaft performed great, carry was long and spin was 2200-2400.

I do think shafts can have an impact on spin but it’s far less a factor than strike location and face angle. An open face sends spin numbers way up and to me is not a useful reading. Close the face at impact with the same shaft and spin drops dramatically. Give me a super stable, stiff shaft that is too long and I will come over the top. Spin will be high regardless of shaft stability. The swing is the thing. A lot of OEMs push Evenflows but for me Diamana Whiteboards and Blueboards work great. I like Mitsubishi shafts in general. Very high quality. I have an 80g Whiteboard in a Callaway 3 Deep and it’s a beast. I don’t look at clubhead speed. These shafts at the right weight and length give me an increase in ballspeed and smash factor.

As dmeeks said, don't look at clubhead speed to be your barometer. You need to up your quality of strike to reduce your slicing and the bloated spin numbers; even if that means losing swing speed. As long as you get your shot straighter and with less spin on it, you won't see much of a drop off in distance.

Completely agree - swing speed only takes you so far. Consistency of strike (close to level or positive Angle of Attack and not cutting across the ball at impact (out to in swing path) are vital for swing efficiency. A few things you could work on - check your ball position and make sure it's far enough forward to promote good contact (where you can hit it level or slightly on the up), try to exaggerate hitting a draw (in-out swing path), and work on really extending the hands and clubhead after impact.

Lots of good advice already but what's most clear is that the club you tried isn't the right setup. 250 carry on 108 ss (even on 104 if that's what you were getting with the Evenflow) is just not even close to optimal. Working with a fitter and an LM you should be able to get the occasional outlier around 1800 rpm by setting up for an ascending blow and an above-center strike. The fact that you're still in the 2500-3000 range just says to fix the swing before fixing the club to me. I'd suggest finding an instructor who uses an LM to at least give you the feel of modern low-spin swing, so that you have something to work with when you go back for a new club. 108-111 suggests a swing with a lot of potential.

My guess, based on similar numbers from people I've fit, if I had to guess without seeing the swing or the setup, is that your club is too long which is forcing a naturally upright swing into an unnaturally flat plane, making it next to impossible to get an upward AoA and leaving the face chronically open. I bet the club you wind up with is going to be around 44.5 or less, with relatively low loft around 8-9°, and an Extra-Stiff rather than a stiff shaft. It's definitely not that Ping!

A. Yes try it, not everyone swings a 70 or 60 better/worse across the board. My swing hovers around 108-110 or so and I like mine to be 60 TX shafts (right now have both a xtorsion copper and a kk dc tx) . I hit then further and straighter than my pro white 70 stiff.

B. CHS won't change indoor to outdoor... If it does, it's because you're getting in your head or you're not warmed up/swinging inconsistent. Ballspeed, roll etc etc etc will though for sure

C. 5% on a 250 yard carry is 12 yards, that could be attributed to so many things, sounds more like a selling point honestly. Could easily go the other way too lol if you're gonna go out in the dead of winter and expect to see similar results in soggy conditions. In my time hitting on a GC, carry has been fairly accurate.