Disappointing releases from Titleist

Over the years, I have been and still am a huge Titleist fan. I personally think they make the best quality equipment out of the OEMs and have always been the most 'professional' and 'subtle' brand.

All the equipment and products look good and play good and they do not have a weakness in their product line.

However...... Titleist..... Why have they started doing these ridiculous product release cycles ?!

I like the fact they release clubs on a 2 year cycle, but why not do a full release line-up! It drives me insane. The last 16 months has been a shambles. It has been building up as Titleist have done this on a smaller scale in the past (eg: 915 D4 and AP3) but its just getting frustrating.

TS2 and TS3 get released........ the drivers are fantastic and then a few months later TS1 and TS4 are released. Fine - its bad and frustrating but whatever.... people make mistakes (I'm looking at you marketing department). Personally I would have preferred a TS4 if I could hit them all again.

T-series irons come out. Bit of a direction change with modern styling but plenty of options and great reviews. Then T100S are released a couple of months later (I almost got the T100) and now the T400 are released! Are they smoking crack? I am fairly sure that if I upgraded to a new Titleist driver/irons every few years I would be raging if I purchased a product, and then they release another very similar product that could potentially suit me better. Its just crazy for a reputable brand like Titleist. Commercially I get why they do this - somebody has to pay for the marketing geniuses they employ - and short-term this may financially be beneficial. However, over a longer period this is just commercial suicide and they will lose customers if they continue with these unpredictable releases.

Ping and other companies do it regularly but they bring out so many products nobody seems to care but I just feel this is a poor decision from Titleist and the entire process is just 'anti-golf' for all OEMs that do similar releases. The golf community want to get fit so do not hold back products just to make a quick profit.....

I remember when it seemed all the OEMs released new clubs on a two year cycle. It sure made things less complicated, lol

These mid-cycle additions are pretty fringe offerings IMO. I'm not offended and I'm even a millennial. TS1/TS4/T100S/T400 are going to be miniscule in sales figures compared to the initial offerings. Not a ton of cross-shopping among those releases vs the initial "core" offerings. I could understand the TS4 vs TS3 but I'd wager the TS4 isn't going to fit 99% of the population.

Agreed. They aren't releasing their core line and then adding more "core" products here, its the much smaller, more specialty stuff.

Also look at it this way; you're frustrated due to what feels like a lost of missed "opportunity", but if you were correctly fit already then this should not matter. If you were fit into T100's for example, then the T400 certainly is not going to be for you, and the T100S is probably going to be a full club longer and lower spinning because of the lofts which would also have completely skewed your fitting, so not for you either. Same with the TS1 and TS4, a specialty lightweight offering and a less forgiving, low spin offering respectively. If you were fit into a TS2 or TS3 and had optimal numbers, then there is no reason to change. If you didn't have optimal numbers, then you shouldn't have bought it.

To me this feels like a bit of a first world, hyper-consumer problem. "Everything wasn't released all at once so my purchase wasn't as informed as it could have been". If your purchase was the product of a solid fitting, then it doesn't matter. If it wasn't the product of a solid fitting, then that is your fault.

everything discussed on WRX is a first world problem no doubt about that.

But nobody can argue that doing releases like this is slightly unethical. If you are getting fit for a driver and have a slow SS and hit it low and the fitter says we have a TS1 and a TS2 that could suit you.... you are definitely swinging and testing both. Obviously a TS1 and a TS4 are worlds apart and are not comparable....

For a consumer having a full lineup is only beneficial.

Understood. However, we don't know the mechanisms behind releases like this, and in your hypothetical scenario, you either bought the TS2 because the numbers we right, or you didn't and you didn't. Either way, the existence of the TS1 does not matter. I agree that having all options available at once is preferable, but if the existence of these secondary products was contingent upon the performance of the core line or a reaction to a shifting market demand, then you would need a time machine to make them available all at once. I'll take more options with a delay over fewer options without one.

Well, it is a golf forum, what else would you have us discuss?

If you fall on the fringe of their offerings, I 100% agree with the frustration. Nothing more irritating than buying the most forgiving model (for that very purpose) to only see them come out with something more forgiving before you have really even gotten thru the honeymoon period.

THAT SAID... the offerings after the TS2/TS3 fit a minority of golfers, and may not really be any better even for that crowd. If you are a candidate for the TS1, you would have been fit into a TS2 with 10.5, or even 11.5* of loft, and with the lightest and highest launching/spinning shaft. If you are a TS4 candidate, you would have been fit into a 8.5/9.5 TS3 with the evenflow white. If one of those options really didn't fit you well, likelihood is you bought something else, or passed on these offerings anyway.

For the irons, the T400s really are niche, and I find the T100s possibly more frustrating if you were a golfer who was doing a combo with T200 or TMBs/U500s. In that case, the T100s may really have been a nice option so you didn't have to do any bending and messing with bounce.

I guess the best question/point is: Is this an intentional, and therefore questionably unethical, move by Titleist?

The answer? I don't know, and nobody outside of Titleist really does either. The reality is that it could be the TS1 was on the drawing board and they decided to release it after feedback from TS2 fittings. The TS4 and the D4 appeared to be planned in advance, and despite what everyone on here thinks about their fittings, really fit very few people. If they fit any real segment of golfers, you would see them on tour (where big swing speeds live), but you see almost everyone playing a TS2 or TS3. The T400, looking at the lofts, really are for a very small minority, and the T100s again could be a feedback thing from people doing combo sets.

Designing and tooling up a given product takes time. It is hard to believe that Titleist did not have the TS1, TS4, T100s, or T400 in the pipe line when the main releases were done.

Is it coincidence that this started to happen after the IPO? The company has to be run in the best interests of their stock holders.

I personally think the T400 is unbecoming to the name of Titleist and cheapens the brand. Those irons are something Callaway or Taylormade would release, but not Titleist. Maybe it will hurt them over time, maybe not.

Dave

I remember when I couldn't afford to buy new golf clubs even if I had wanted to keep up with the cycles, lol. Except for ounces, never had to worry about all sorts of tech wanting me to go out and buy a new Louisville Slugger when I was a kid. But, then there was fishing . . . . .

Unethical? That’s a stretch. The t100-s was a released based on fitter feedback. Was it potentially in the process of being developed? Probably and may have been something they looked at the next release having bit because of the need/demand they release earlier thus giving the golfing public a product they want.

the ts1 and ts4 were closer tonight products. The vast majority of golfers don’t need the low spin ts4 head and those.

if a golfer got fit and the offering at the time wasn’t a match for their game and they still bought it that’s the golfers fault and not the companies. If they didn’t buy then they now have an option thats probably a better fit and again the company releasing a product that fits a customers needs/wants.

No one is forcing anyone to buy anything

It worked for PING with the G400/G400 Max.....It was shocking how many people who bought the G400 then traded in for or purchsed the Max. Which boosted PING's sales. So maybe Titleist figured they would try to mimic that success.

The market will sort it out. I suspect that the ts4 won't be a big seller. My fitter said the rep told them less than 1% will fit into the ts4. T400 is pretty useless too. the t100s is a bit of a head scratcher. It's too easy to just bend the t100. Very much like what ping did. Is just not like titleist and that's what we're saying.

Its the New World.

Got a Fresh Proto?

Get a press release and presell it.Yes T400 is crazy too me BUT im not that clubs target..i see these coming out of the Caddyshack Bag to hit the Goffer 240 yards out with the pw. Hey Hey ?

New gear is Great.

Thankyou.

Snowflakes"R"Us in this thread

There's at least some sanity in this thread. Titleist nuts are so weird. They feel compelled to buy everything that is released and are so annoyed when something new comes out that doesn't fit the traditional mantra of the brand. It was the same when Cameron introduced the Detour and Futura X putters, you thought Titleist was going out of business by the sounds of the posts. All 4 driver options fit a very specific type of golfer, and while I personally think it is overkill, it makes sense for them to have their bases covered. TS4 is your low spin bomber driver (albeit it's still pretty moderate spin compared to some others out there), TS3 is their tinker driver that can be anything you want it to be, TS2 is their easy to use speed and MOI model that is going to fit 85% of the players buying Ttitleist, and the TS1 is their bunty/light driver for swingspeeds of like 85 and under and/or extreme draw biased and high launch for the odd player who might need that.
While I can see your frustration, this isn't unique to Titleist. Ping did it with the G400 Max recently and the G410 LST. Remember the confusion of the introduction of the SLDR-S mid season and Taylormade disavowed that the JetSpeed even existed in summer of 2014? Callaway introducing the Fusion driver for like what, 3 months until Epic came out and then they forgot Fusion was a product and went green everything? It happens everywhere, and @Valtiel is right, if you were fit correctly you needn't worry about it. If you bought it just because it's a new Titleist option and you have to have the latest and greatest and now feel slighted because you don't have the pretty new toy, then that's your own fault.
Now, the T100-S I can see irk some people. It's basically the T200 killer, and the AP3/T200 people wanted in the first place. There's only a small, small segment of the market who fits T200 that won't fit T100-S IMO as you still have to have some skill to hit T200 properly. T400 I'm not mad at at all, they needed something fat and huge for the low-speed player or the novice golfer. T300 wasn't that, T300 is more akin to Hot Metal Pro or Srixon 585, it's decently forgiving but not all that it could be.

Once a person comes to the reality that new club releases are basically putting a different color lipstick on the same pig, life becomes less frustrating.

I agree. I only switch irons and wedges when the grooves are worn and woods about every 5 years only because they start to feel worn

Calling a company out on their crappy antics as they slide downhill makes people snowflakes? Interesting.

I think he was referring to calling this business practice "Unethical", which I would then agree that if thats how you think, you are probably a "Snowflake". If you dont like it, don't buy it. If the consumer doesn't like the practice, it will show in the bottom line and company will adjust. Welcome to capitalism.

I would love to see the data that shows titleist sliding downhill. The t irons and TS woods have done well as has the ball. Vokey wedges and Scotty also help the company pretty well

Scotty/Vokey havent dont anything new, exciting, or innovative in years. Finally in 2020 they are scrapping that 'insert' Scotty putter retail line that was terrible and giving people a little of what theyve been asking for - for years - in a non-insert putter. Everything Scotty has released in the last decade has been something no one wanted that 'he was inspired to make after seeing a race car'. Thanks Scotty.

The new Vokey wedges look like iron-set wedges and a step down from the SM7. They do still have the best grind options, though. (I play them)

Titleist pretty much flat out admitted they messed up with the T-series irons with these released. They stated themselves 'after releasing the T-series we got feedback from fitters and professionals that we needed other products in the lineup'. Really?

The all-mighty Titleist is so out of tune with the golf market they needed to wait until products were at fitters for MONTHS to think "Gee whiz, maybe we should release some SGI irons and change the lofts on our signature players clubs to be more in line with golf trends in 2020!".

Not to even mention the TS drivers issue....releasing two drivers and then 6 months later two more without a single peep about the second release.

At least Mizuno, with the Hot Metal series of irons, made it CLEARLY apparent that they would be releasing the Hot Metal PRO after the initial Hot Metal launch and gave us a future release date....Titleist? Not so much.

The purpose of WRX is to bring keen golfers together and discuss whats new/wanted/needed/dreamed off! So lets congratulate Team Titleist on going all out to fill Every Niche! Thats why young designers strive to innovate/design/dream etc...they arent saying Wow WRX'rs have stopped hoing and are in love with the AP2 718 so Stop Innovating!!

The T irons languish on the shelves and the TS woods although an improvement over the 917s are still slow sellers. Sales at our 47 stores bear out these observations and even last years AP2, AP1 and AP3 garner little interest at reduced prices.

By the way, there is no "the consumer". There are a ton of individual consumers who all make their own choices. If enough of them don't like it the practice stops. This is a market. Capitalism works because millions of individual, unique people vote with their wallets for the best products and services, and they are allowed to be completely different.

You might even say all those unique consumers doing stuff on their own to form the base of a capitalistic market are... wait... i can't think of the term.... does anyone know a word for something where no two are alike?

Every few years, it seems like Titleist has an identity crisis - 907 Drivers and DCI 882OS irons come to mind. I think the "T" series irons are another example of this. Trying to follow the market instead of staying true to what they have always been - "serious clubs for serious players."

the release has been scattershot with product and timing .. they used to have a clear cut lineup and release schedule .. seems management has gotten a bit disorganized .. jmo

Thats exactly what I said. "The Consumer" is the term for the individual consumer, or a person who purchases goods and services for personal use. Don't understand what you mean by there is no "the consumer" and then say right after it that there are only individual consumers. You make no sense.

Ha, perfect response. I was making fun of you for explaining that capitalism runs on unique people making unique decisions and also derisively calling people snowflakes. The entire heart of capitalism is the uniqueness of the people in its society. Capitalism without snowflakes doesn't work.

My head hurts, Im going to go find a safe space