Why do tour pros aim left with irons and especially wedges? Divots left of pin/target too

 JCray33 ·  
JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
Joined:  edited Feb 2, 2020 3:37pm in Instruction & Academy #1

Hey so pretty easy and straight forward question I have...I notice a lot from the pros that with irons and especially wedges, they aim a good amount to the left with their feet. I especially notice this with world #1 Brooks Koepka and I'm wondering why that is? Their divots also go a good amount left of the target...

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  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers  18846WRX Points: 1,459Posts: 18,846 Titanium Tees
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    Look up D plane.

    Basiclally the more you hit down, the more the swing path shift to the right because of the part of the arc you’re hitting it on.

    Brooks is pretty steep, so the ball will take off pretty far right of the swing direction at impact.

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  • JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
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    So we aim body left but what about the clubface? Aligned with our body to the left or keep the clubface at the target?

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  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  3946WRX Points: 564Posts: 3,946 Titanium Tees
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    Multiple ways to do this. All based on d plane


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    Enjoy every sandwich.

  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers  18846WRX Points: 1,459Posts: 18,846 Titanium Tees
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    You don’t need to point it at the target. It will be pointing there on that part of the arc if face and oath match.

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  • JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Feb 2, 2020 5:14am #7

    So basically align clubface with your feet then which should aim a bit to left with irons since you're hitting down on it

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  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers  18846WRX Points: 1,459Posts: 18,846 Titanium Tees
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    Yep. All under the assumption that your swing is decent and the face and path are pretty close.

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  • JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
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    Here’s a good example of Spieth. Aiming a good amount left yet the ball going straight at the pin.


    https://youtu.be/zlaWqQ2rbi0

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  • JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Feb 2, 2020 3:36pm #10

    Man super excited. I’m 25 been playing golf for about 12-13 years now and have just NOW heard about this D-Plane and how hitting down on the ball requires you to aim left a bit to compensate...crazy and can’t wait for the weather to get nice here in Minnesota and start dialing in my irons and especially wedges 🤗🤗

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  • JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Feb 4, 2020 4:07am #11

    Anyone with knowledge of this, do we have clubface still align to the target or do we align our clubface left with our body as well?

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  • GolfjackGolfjack All about the rotation Members  1490WRX Points: 436Posts: 1,490 Platinum Tees
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    You might want to check to see if you are actually hitting down on it too. Looking at pro's is good for understanding why they do what they do, but like Monte said, their swings are excellent. Yours probably isn't if you are an amateur. Might want to look at other parts of your swing instead of just hitting the ball left (assuming you're hitting it straight aiming straight).

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    TM M4 Driver 10.5
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    Mizuno MP-15 4, 5 iron, Project X LZ 6.5
    Mizuno MP-5 6-PW, Project X LZ 6.5
    Wedges Mizuno T7 50, 56, 60
    Honma HP 1002

    Alternate set:
    Callaway Epic Sub Zero 9.5, Nike VR Pro 4-PW DG x100, Titleist AP2 712 DG x100 4-P, Callaway Jaws X Series CC Wedges 52 56 60, , Odyssey Arm Lock Putter, Gauge Design Eldik Putter with Superstroke Fatso 5
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  • JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Feb 4, 2020 7:26pm #13

    I hit a good amount down so therefore I have to play for that according to this D-Plane theory and aim everything a bit to the left and swing their and the ball should go a bit right of that (my alignment) at the target

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  • JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
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    With this D-plane logic. Does this apply to fariway woods off the ground as well? Meaning, we should aim a bit left with fairway woods off the deck?

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  • WesquireWesquire Members  843WRX Points: 139Posts: 843 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Feb 14, 2020 6:40am #15

    Well, beyond D plane you also have the fact that as loft increases, path dictates more and more of the start direction as well. With a 60* wedge, path and face are close to equal... meaning a face 10* to the left with a path 10* to the right would start pretty much straight. With a fairway wood, you aren't going to be hitting that much down on it and the path isn't going to dictate much of the start direction.

    Posted:
    Driver - Ping G400 LST 8.5° (Mitsubishi CK Pro Orange 70 TX Tipped 1")
    3 Wood - Ping G 14.5° (PX HZRDUS Black 75g 6.5 Tipped 1.5")
    2 Crossover - Ping G410 17° (PX HZRDUS Black 85g 6.5)
    4-W - Ping i200 (PX 6.5)
    Wedges - Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 50°/55°/60° (PX 6.5)
    Putter - Directed Force
    Ball - Snell MTB-X
  • oikos1oikos1 Members  2726WRX Points: 523Posts: 2,726 Titanium Tees
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    I'm feeling solid with a certain understanding of what you just said, although my head still hurts

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  • ZAPZAP ClubWRX  1692WRX Points: 240Handicap: 4Posts: 1,692 ClubWRX
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    D Plane and the path to face relationship cannot be overlooked for sure. IMHO Some really good (but lengthy) videos out there if you really want to dive in.

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  • JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Feb 14, 2020 4:00pm #18

    Oh I’ve watched them lol. Basically in easy terms...when the ball is off the ground you should aim a bit left with these clubs because hitting down also shifts the path in-to-out and with the ball teed up with driver you should aim a bit right because the path will be going more out-to-in...

    I’ve played golf for about 10 years now and just stumbled upon this D-plane logic a few weeks ago on YouTube and can’t wait for the weather to warm up here in Minnesota and get to the range to really prove this science!

    The science does make sense in my head and I’ve noticed for the longest time that with irons especially how much the pros aim left swing left of the target yet the ball tracks all over the pin. Especially Koepka so I’ve learned the more your angle of attack, the more you’ll need to aim left...again the range is going to be my best friend in a few weeks when they open 😃

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  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  3946WRX Points: 564Posts: 3,946 Titanium Tees
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    Hitting down doesn't shift the path in to out - the sweet spot is moving to the right while coming down and moving to the left while going up (for a righty). The shaft plane traced is what has either an in to out, neutral, or out to in shape. where on this shape you strike the ball determines the direction of the sweet spot. Where the actual face is pointing is determined by what the golfer does with the club - can be open, closed, aligned with the sweet spot movement.

    The video I posted the guy swung on three different shaft planes to demonstrate the effects of dplane - note he has not changed his alignment - he is skilled enough to produce different planes.

    Having a trackman would make figuring out what you are doing much easier but then $25K . . .

    But you can video your swing and note the shaft plane relative to how in to out, etc it is - dtl view should provide this. Good news is most of us are capable of repeating our shaft plane pretty consistently. Then you need to understand you low point - a range session with marking the grass and then doing a line drill to see where low point is can help determine this - no divot well that won't help - you can't just assume you are hitting the ball on the down- folks can actually take divots when hitting up. Ditto the driver - just cause it's teed up doesn't mean one is hitting up - the tour average is something like -1.3 so average is slightly down. Then with driver you have to deal with toe and heel contact and their effect on ball flight before understanding what your doing. This is actually when going to a good teaching pro with trackman and having a session could provide the answers much easier.

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    Enjoy every sandwich.

  • tthomasgolfer605tthomasgolfer605 Members  107WRX Points: 58Handicap: ProPosts: 107 Fairways
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    Since wedges and short irons are not distance clubs but for accuracy, setting up open does a few things. Encourages a more upright swing and descending blow. Since it's not a full swing, it also presets the hips open a bit so you won't flip the hands and pull it left. Also it puts more spin on the ball to hit those nice floating wedge shots that stop on a dime. Experiment with face pointed at target and square to your stance and see what happens.

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  • duffduff Members  291WRX Points: 80Posts: 291 Greens
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    Not questioning your recommendation - just trying to understand - with the face pointed at the target and your set up open, how can the face be pointed at the target and at the same time be square to an open stance?

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  • WesquireWesquire Members  843WRX Points: 139Posts: 843 Golden Tee
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    Posted:
    Driver - Ping G400 LST 8.5° (Mitsubishi CK Pro Orange 70 TX Tipped 1")
    3 Wood - Ping G 14.5° (PX HZRDUS Black 75g 6.5 Tipped 1.5")
    2 Crossover - Ping G410 17° (PX HZRDUS Black 85g 6.5)
    4-W - Ping i200 (PX 6.5)
    Wedges - Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 50°/55°/60° (PX 6.5)
    Putter - Directed Force
    Ball - Snell MTB-X
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  • tthomasgolfer605tthomasgolfer605 Members  107WRX Points: 58Handicap: ProPosts: 107 Fairways
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    Yes. I'm saying to try both options and see what works best for you.

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  • GnucastleGnucastle Members  47WRX Points: 30Handicap: 7Posts: 47 Bunkers
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    OMG I am going to shoot 200 trying this on Sunday.

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    Posted:
  • JCray33JCray33 Members  30WRX Points: 8Posts: 30 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Feb 15, 2020 11:13pm #26

    Lol. I know it can get confusing. Basically to make it really easy. When hitting anything off ground aim a bit left and swing left (opposite if your a lefty) and with driver aim a bit right and swing right to hit a straight shot. Angle of attack changes where in the arc your hitting it so it changes your path.

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13843WRX Points: 1,386Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,843 Titanium Tees
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    Funny. Hogan outlined this in 5/lessons. Ben didn’t need no stinking D plane. 😉


    seriously the Old timers figured all this out, Trackman has just verified what they knew.



    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS or Vokey M Grind 58
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
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  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers  18846WRX Points: 1,459Posts: 18,846 Titanium Tees
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    The genius of hogan was not his swing.


    He figured this discussion out 80 years ago. He also figured out the 20 minute practice rule.

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13843WRX Points: 1,386Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,843 Titanium Tees
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    Oh do tell. I thought hogan practiced till his hands bled. 😉

    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS or Vokey M Grind 58
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers  18846WRX Points: 1,459Posts: 18,846 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #30

    After 20 minutes, it’s just exercise and motor learning ceases. So he’d go for 20, have a cigarette, go for 20, rinse and repeat.

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  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13843WRX Points: 1,386Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,843 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 16, 2020 1:33am #31

    So I’m guessing on the short game you actually want to swing more on plane at the target so you are more shallow?

    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS or Vokey M Grind 58
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
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