2020 MGA Rules Quiz - Q1

1. A player’s tee shot is headed towards heavy fescue where it may be lost. The player says, “I’ll hit

another just in case.” The second ball lands in the middle of the fairway, 20 yards closer to the hole

than where the original is likely to be. His caddie, stationed ahead, begins searching and player

arrives one minute later. A ball is found two and a half minutes after the player arrived. Without

announcement and without marking the ball, the player lifts, cleans, and identifies this ball as his

original. He replaces the ball and plays it out to the fairway near where the second ball lies. He picks

up the second ball and plays the original onto the green. At this point another player questions what

has happened. Unsure how to proceed, the player says he’ll play out the hole with both balls. He

replaces the second ball and plays it onto the green. He 2 putts with the original ball and 3 putts

with the provisional. He reports the facts to the Committee. What is his score for the hole?

A. 8

B. 9

C. 10

D. DQ

Copying my response from the other place:

On Q1, my call is 9 (answer B). In brief, when player lifted the original it was outside search time so the player was substituting a ball under 6.3 so it became ball in play, substituting also for the provisional (which was the only ball the Rules permit to substitute for the original in this scenario). It was then played from a wrong place to the fairway (not a serious breach) but was still ball in play and player needed to continue the hole with that ball. Lifting the provisional was not a penalty because the subbed ball was BIP by that point. Total counting strokes: 2 from tee, one into fairway, one to green and 2 putts. Penalties are S&D 1 stroke; 6.3+14.7 which get discounted to 2 strokes penalty, so a total of 9. No penalty from playing the provisional from the fairway and also finishing with that ball when the player did not know how to proceed.

Imo, ✔️

This one is easy...

A:8

Did not use the word "provisional," therefore the 2nd ball is ball in play (3 off the tee). Picked up the ball when not allowed to do so (one stroke penalty).

3 off the tee, one stroke penalty for picking up ball, 3 putts gives you 8 strokes.

From Interpretation 18.3b/2 – Statements That “Clearly Indicate” That a Provisional Ball Is Being Played

When playing a provisional ball, it is best if the player uses the word “provisional” in his or her announcement. However, other statements that make it clear that the player’s intent is to play a provisional ball are acceptable.

Examples of announcements that clearly indicate the player is playing a provisional ball include:

“I’m playing a ball under Rule 18.3.”“I’m going to play another just in case.”

Upon further review... The answer is C as the original ball was played when 3 minutes had elapsed. So 10 strokes. Original stroke, 2 strokes for playing a wrong ball and one stroke for not marking ball and cleaning it. Plus all strokes with provisional ball.

I think you should re-read post #2. When the player lifted and replaced the original ball, which was no longer his ball in play after the more than three minute search, it became a substituted ball for the ball in play, which at that point was his provisional ball. When a player has a ball in his hands and puts it in play by replacing it or dropping it, it cannot be a wrong ball (there may be an exception to that rule of thumb, but it's rare).

When a player has a ball in his hands and puts it in play by replacing it or dropping it, it cannot be a wrong ball (there may be an exception to that rule of thumb, but it's rare).

The single exception to this observation is this: a player marks his ball and puts it aside (eg mark on green and put the ball somewhere on the green out of the way) but then forgets to replace and plays the ball from the put aside position. Player has played a wrong ball, 2SP and must play again from the correct position.

In that case the player has not put the ball back in play as the intention to put it in play was missing.

I don't know what you mean by "that case" above, but in the case of the question the player put the ball back and then struck it. Sounds intentional to me!

Two questions;

Why "2 from tee"? He hit two from the tee but his second tee ball was a provisional. When the original ball was lost, why isn't the provisional automatically the BOP? If so, then dropping and playing the original ball would be practice strokes under 5.2

Now I see what you mean, I thought you were talking about the beginning of the quote instead of the end of it.

Hale, that is a misunderstanding of what I was saying. I was raising an example where you can have the ball in your hand but then play it as a wrong ball - because you had set it aside (with full intention of returning it to your mark) but then simply forgot to replace so you played a wrong ball (a ball not in play).

Just my shorthand language. First drive, then second drive as a provisional (with an S&D penalty embedded - ie the provisional ball was lying three after being hit into the fairway.The original ball was not "lost", it was no longer in play when another ball was substituted into play. So the formal trigger for bringing a provisional ball into play had not occurred at that point in time (see 18.3c(2)).

The original ball was not found after 3 minutes, so why is it not declared lost at that point and the provisional automatically becomes the BOP?

When Original Ball Is Lost Anywhere on Course Except in Penalty Area or Is Out of Bounds. The original ball is no longer in playIn Play: The status of a player’s ball when it lies on the course and is being used in the play of a hole:(...Continued)

(even if it is then found on the courseCourse: The entire area of play within the edge of any boundaries set by the Committee:(...Continued)

after the end of the three-minute search time) and is now a wrong ballWrong Ball: Any ball other than the player’s:(...Continued)

that must not be played (see Rule 6.3c).

So, the original ball WAS lost, the provisional WAS the ball in play, but then something else happened . . .

Let’s remove some of the noise from the scenario.

Player hits tee shot onto the edge of the fairway. For some unknown/invalid reason, he takes a ball out of his bag, drops it 20 yards away from the ball in play (he isn’t taking unplayable lie), and hits the substituted ball to the green. Picks up his original and finishes hole with the substituted ball.

Did he play from the wrong place? Or were those all practice strokes, with a DQ for not finishing the hole?

Once he picked up the original (lost) ball, it wasn’t a wrong ball any more. It was just like a golf ball in his pocket, or in his bag.

I get the BS about the ball, even though time has expired, being put back into play and now becoming the ball in play, but the strokes don't add up in my mind.

So what is the correct answer? In real English without the shortcuts because even with antip's clarification, I can't make heads or tails of the strokes counted and not counted.

After stroke and distance, his ball (the provisional) is lying 3 in the fairway.

Illegal substitution and hits it to near where his provisional is sitting.

Add 1 for the stroke

2 penalty strokes for the substitution and for playing from the wrong place.

So now lying 6 in the fairway. The provisional ball is irrelevant now.

1 shot to the green.

2 putts for a 9.

I think that’s it.

How did you decide it was an "illegal substitution?" Why not a practice shot? What is the difference between an illegal substitution and a practice shot?

If I drop a ball in the middle of playing a hole and hit it, why isn't that a practice shot?

It's all about intent, once again.

If you just throw a ball down in order to practice you have no intention to put that ball into play, thus you are not substituting your ball in play.

The Committee will need to make a ruling based on the player's actions; they will need to assess all information available regarding those actions, and assign a Rule or Rules to those actions. Those actions may indicate the player's intent.

The one thing the Committee cannot do is assign the unplayable ball Rule (Rule 19) to the player's actions - the player is the sole judge of whether or not his ball is unplayable.

I also came up with 9, but through the provisional ball.

Thanks a lot MGA.

Quite right, I was mixing up the question details in answering your Q2 late at night. The original ball was lost and the provisional became ball in play at that point. But the player then put another ball in play with intent for it to be in play, hence this is a substituted ball that becomes THE ball in play whether it was legitimate or not (Rule 6.3).

Edit: I just see that Mr Bean has also answered your "why is it not a practice ball" question with the same answer.

Not sure how you could arrive at 9 with the provisional, if the Committee were to decide that it was the ball to count (which would be a wrong decision imo). Here's what I count for the provisional -

lying 3 in the fairway after stroke and distance (original ball lost)

1 penalty stroke for picking it up (later replaced)

2 penalty strokes for a practice stroke with the other ball, or two penalty strokes for playing a wrong ball (the other ball)

1 stroke to the putting green after replacing the provisional ball

3 putts

Total = 10

Regarding the intent of the player in this question - imo, his action of picking up the provisional ball made it very clear that he intended the substituted ball to be his ball in play..

All being said and as the Rules are written, 9 is the answer. I do not agree with the ability to play a wrong ball and abandon the provisional. Under the original scenario it doesn't take into account for where the provisional is. What if it was in a really bad place? All the player has to do is play the original ball and play from a wrong place and only be penalized 2 strokes and claim they didn't know how to proceed.

This is a misunderstanding. The answer explicitly takes into account the position of the provisional ball - but there was no need to mention it because it raised no further issues beyond those identified.

If the provisional ball was in a bad but known place, inferior to where the substituted ball was played from a wrong place, then the first stroke with the substituted ball would be a serious breach and would have needed to have been replayed from the correct position. If the position of the provisional ball had been unknown, there would have been an additional S&D penalty and the first stroke with the substituted ball would have been a serious breach and would have needed to have been replayed from the tee.

But the original ball was not a wrong ball. Because he picked it up and replaced it, those actions made it a substituted ball at a wrong place. It would have been a wrong ball if he had just played the original ball rather than picking it up and replacing it. Hope that helps?

BTW, the facts in the question say the provisional ball was in the middle of the fairway, so it wasn't behind a tree, in a bush or anywhere where it would not be easily played. It's also unlikely that the player played the substituted ball backwards to the fairway to be near where the provisional ball was lying. Ie, there was not a serious breach of playing from a wrong place.

As you know, the questions the MGA presents are meant to be confusing and difficult, often using scenarios/answers that are based on relatively difficult areas of the Rules (and some of their previous answers have been embarrassingly incorrect).