M5 vs. SIM

 manima1 ·  
manima1manima1 ChicagoMembers  773WRX Points: 136Handicap: 9.8Posts: 773 Golden Tee
Joined:  edited Feb 16, 2020 10:23pm in Equipment #1

To start I have to say I was basically committed to upgrading to the SIM this season seeing the positive buzz here and on the TXG vid. Hit them side by side on GC QUAD this weekend, actually have to say my M5 was surprisingly just as good and if not more stable and consistent. I do play my M5 weights in the most forgiving positions, which I feel makes it a better comp vs the weights being forward. What I saw was Same ballspeed and equally good spin stability on off-center strikes.


In the TXG comp, they never put the weights all the way back on the M5 which really in my opinion makes it more even with the SIM in terms of CG and MOI. The secret for M5 in my opinion is weight back, low loft to control spin. Set the M5 up like this go equal loft with the SIM and in my opinion there is just nothing there to go one way or another.


Bottom line, in this M5 weight-back configuration I see no significant upgrade.


Edit: to clarify, this is my setup. Loft is down at 7.75.


Posted:
Post edited by manima1 on
M5 9.0->7.5 - Kuro Kage Dual Core 80tx 
'16 M2HL 16.8 tour issued deep faced - Fujikura 8.3 TS
zU45 18 degree - S400
z745 4-PW - S400
SM6 50.08F - S400 Steel Gray
SM7 54.10S - S400 Raw
TM Hi-Toe 60.12ATV - S400 Black
TM Spider X - Navy
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Comments

  • 18thbunker18thbunker Members  394WRX Points: 86Posts: 394 Greens
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    Thank you for posting this. Just got the M5 driver and will position the weights as you described.

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    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]driver - Titleist 915 D3 10.5[/font]
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]fairway - Ping I25 18 degree 5 wood
    hybrid - Ben Hogan VKTR 19 & 23
    Irons - Mizuno MP68 3-PW
    wedges Mizuno MP-T5 50-58
    putter - Ping Sigma G Doon[/font]
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  • HappyGilmore22HappyGilmore22 Members  641WRX Points: 202Handicap: 3Posts: 641 Golden Tee
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    I play M5 both weights center with one all the way forward and another about 1/2 inch behind that. I play it at I think 8.25 deg with the weights in those positions. I'm going to order the SIM but wondering if it's going to be higher launching and spin than the M5 with how I have the weights set up. Trying to figure out if I should order the SIM lower lofted at 8 degrees or if the SIM spins and launches less so the 9 deg would be better.

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    TaylorMade SIM 9 deg - Fujikura Ventus Black 7x

    Titleist TS3 14.25 deg - Project X Evenflow T1100 White 85x

    Titleist 816 H2 19 deg - Mitsubishi Diamana D+ Hybrid 90x

    Titleist T200 4-5, T100 6-PW - Project X 6.5

    Vokey SM7 50.12 F, 54.10 S, 58.12 D - DG TI S400

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  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members  7353WRX Points: 412Handicap: 5Posts: 7,353 Titanium Tees
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    Agreed with your findings....M5 wgt back actually plays more like SIM MAX but gives you the ability to make adjustments.....can't do that with either SIM....

    I'm low launch and spin guy but still found a 9* M5 one click up to 9.75 to be the perfect fit.....front track drivers (SLDR, R15,M1,SIM) don't offer same level of consistency as the T track inversion of the M5

    Posted:
  • CardsChamps11CardsChamps11 Members  652WRX Points: 139Posts: 652 Golden Tee
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    Has anyone hit them side by side with the same shafts and have the comparison numbers?

    Posted:
  • msd71msd71 Members  745WRX Points: 155Handicap: 1Posts: 745 Golden Tee
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    I hit my 10.5 M5 with weights back with AD DI 6 shaft outdoors with trackman, followed by Sim MAX 10.5 with the same shaft. The SIM max was giving me 8 more yards pretty reliably. I bought it.

    Posted:
  • CardsChamps11CardsChamps11 Members  652WRX Points: 139Posts: 652 Golden Tee
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    Wow. 8 yards is a TON. I would have bought it too

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  • taylormade4lifetaylormade4life Members  1420WRX Points: 179Handicap: 4Posts: 1,420 Platinum Tees
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    Thanks for posting, I am currently trying to upgrade my 2017 M1 to either the M5 or SIM. I plan to do some testing this week but had read other mixed reviews on the SIM being better than the M5.

    i am hoping for a bit more forgiveness and maybe a little more distance but my numbers are pretty well maxed in my M1.

    Posted:
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3406WRX Points: 498Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,406 Titanium Tees
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  • 11631163 Members  332WRX Points: 87Posts: 332 Greens
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    I did extensive testing between my M5 vs. the Sim/Sim Max.

    I was expecting the Sim/Sim Max to be an upgrade over my M5 but to my surprise, my M5 was better across the board. The M5 also outperformed the Mavrik and Speedzone.

    Saved me money but being a club ho, I ended up getting a new TM Spider X instead

    Posted:
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9050WRX Points: 2,689Posts: 9,050 Titanium Tees
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  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members  7353WRX Points: 412Handicap: 5Posts: 7,353 Titanium Tees
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  • jungwjd7jungwjd7 seattle, WAMembers  58WRX Points: 21Posts: 58 Bunkers
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    I played M5 last season and I ended up switching to SIM MAX.

    It gave me better ball speed, dispersion, and much better comfort at address.

    Hope this can be gamer for many years.

    Posted:

    Taylormade SIM MAX 10.5 Graphite Design Tour AD VR 6S
    Taylormade SIM MAX D 3W 16 Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 7S
    Taylormade SIM MAX 3H 19 Graphite Design Tour AD DI 85S
    Taylormade 4-P P790 17’ Nippon NS Modus3 Tour 120S
    Callway Mack Daddy 4 48(10), 52(10), 56(10)
    Titlist SM7 60(12)
    Toulon Las Vegas

  • 18thbunker18thbunker Members  394WRX Points: 86Posts: 394 Greens
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    Posted:
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]driver - Titleist 915 D3 10.5[/font]
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]fairway - Ping I25 18 degree 5 wood
    hybrid - Ben Hogan VKTR 19 & 23
    Irons - Mizuno MP68 3-PW
    wedges Mizuno MP-T5 50-58
    putter - Ping Sigma G Doon[/font]
  • KjboisenKjboisen Members  149WRX Points: 80Handicap: 1Posts: 149 Fairways
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    If you are a Taylormade guy and want a new driver and you are a couple years behind, the M5 M6 are just as good and they will be cheaper! No harm in that clearly. I love my M5. I was forced to switch after my 2016 M2 cracked and I LOVED that driver.

    Posted:
  • dropped_birdiesdropped_birdies Members  4WRX Points: 7Posts: 4 Starters
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    Could it be that you were just more used to your own driver?

    Posted:
  • HedgehogHedgehog EUMembers  535WRX Points: 213Handicap: 5Posts: 535 Golden Tee
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    Just a heads up to everyone, all of these drivers are very low spin, if you already have a low spin delivery test them on the course IRL before purchase.. I had a great fitting for my M6 last winter indoors on Trackman just to have the ball drop out of the sky like a rock on my 1st rounds on the course with it.

    From what I have seen and tested the SIM drivers are a step above the M5/M6 on forgiveness and looks, IMO thye also feel a bit better. From my testing I got the best ball speeds out of the 2020 drivers using the SIM MAX, but the gains were about 3mph compared to my gamer. The Mavrik Max and Sim Max will go head to head to test the forgiveness soon, that's what really matters.

    Posted:
    Ping G410 Plus 9° Ventus 6x / Taylormade M6 15° Hzrdus Yellow75 6.0 / Ping G410 Hybrid 19° AD-DI85x / Ping G410 Crossover 21°Hzrdus Smoke90 6.0 / Ping iBlade 5-PW Modus3 105S / Cleveland RTX4 52/56° DG TI S400 / Ping Glide Forged 60° DG TI S400 / Scotty Cameron Futura 5W 33,5"Stability Shaft / Titleist ProV1
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  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3406WRX Points: 498Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,406 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 17, 2020 12:57pm #18

    I don't think sim max was a significant step up from m6. I owned m6 for about a month and found the same problem I found with sim max...face rotated closed at impact too much. I think m6 owners will see very little gains going to sim max.

    But m5 to sim is a big leap. For some the leap will naught. The m5 fits a certain group really well. It is a very good driver. But I found it to be slow. Maybe I just got a dud head, but wasn't that what injected face was supposed to eliminate?

    I think TM learned something about their injection process from m5/6 to SIM. I think they improved on speed on both lines. For me, it was significant.

    Posted:
  • RyanBarathWRXRyanBarathWRX Media Staffer  104WRX Points: 143Handicap: 5Posts: 104 Fairways
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    M5 vs SIM is almost a complete wash on center hits.

    BUT.....

    With misses vertically on the face the edge is to the SIM and for lower strikes horizontal then its a big win for the SIM - Big being a relative term. On the center, and if you are a players that hits up and hits a draw you might not pick up anything... I want to be very clear on that.


    I'm an open face at impact, positive AoA player and went through a full fitting and tested M5 to SIM with same shaft and then went on to dial in the SIM further. My preferred miss lower on the heel was probably 20% lower spinning which resulted in more carry and less deviation when missed - this resulted in noticeable distance gain on that shot for me.

    Another BIG factor is TM has addressed players having to play full open face angles to get lofts lower and the 8° head addition to the line up is fantastic for players like myself that need lower loft because of swing dynamics but don't want to have faces sit WIDE open. This is about minimizing misses and creating more options. If you are looking for a new driver 100% test the M5 vs the SIM because for some players the difference may not justify the additional expense but for some golfers with certain dynamics you well see a difference.

    Posted:
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3406WRX Points: 498Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,406 Titanium Tees
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    Agree 100%. I am also open face to path and positive AoA. SIM was a big positive over m5 for me.

    Posted:
  • JoeFrigoJoeFrigo Members  385WRX Points: 162Handicap: 6.4Posts: 385 Greens
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    Honestly I found the same thing.... but for some stupid reason I had other clubs to trade in that weren't being used, so I used the 150% bonus for a SIM Max. SIM Max gave me the 5 highest ball speeds compared to m5 but everything else (Launch, spin, dispersion) was better with m5. I felt the m5 was the best driver ive ever played

    Its early and im gonna give the SIM Max a fair chance but its nice to have the 90 day playability through PGA Superstore. if it doesnt work out im going withe Mizuno ST200G

    Posted:

    TM SIM MAX 9* Ventus Black 60x
    TM SIM 3w 17* Tensei Pro Orange 70tx
    TM P790 UDI Tensei Pro Orange 90tx
    Mizuno MP 20 MMC 4 - P C-taper Lite 115x black
    Mizuno T20 52,56,60 Aerotech Steelfiber 110 F5
    EVENROLL ER2

  • TigerInTheWoodsTigerInTheWoods Members  2347WRX Points: 1,495Handicap: 5Posts: 2,347 Platinum Tees
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    If you've gained 10 yards carry with the Sim over M5 it's literally down to either a bad fit for M5, your swing changed over the season meaning your old driver isn't optimized anymore, or your Sim fit was done better than your M5 fit. Go look at Rory's stats thus far - his driving distance is actually down in 2020 compared to 2019. Same with Rahm and DJ. Fitting is king don't drink too much kool aid.

    Posted:


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  • PittSharkPittShark Littering and...... ClubWRX  705WRX Points: 119Posts: 705 ClubWRX
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    So here's what I'm wrestling with - got the M5 last year, threw in my old trusty shaft (AD DI), and have enjoyed mostly good results with it (in fact VERY good when I put a good swing on it). I actually think it looks fantastic and have no problems with the sound. Now I'm tempted to give the SIM a go due to all the good reviews but here's the issue: I play my current driver at 44.5". In the M5 this was nice and easy to take care of....I ordered a pair of heavier weights and was able to both set them where I wanted them (back with some favor towards the toe) and also make up the weight I needed due to the short shaft. This leaves two issues for the SIM....if I were to buy one, I'd need to add that weight. Unless anyone has seen any in the wild yet, it doesn't appear you can buy replacements for that large weight in the back. The obvious response here is "hot melt". I don't want to do that because a) I don't want to alter the sound if possible and b) it can't be altered once it's in as opposed to the freedom of moving weights around. But before I can even get to that point, issue #2 arises - hard to even give it an equal test since the best I can do is put my current shaft in a demo head and give it a try knowing the SW will be lighter than what I'm used to.


    Anyone run into this dilemma? For those who have already bought and play a shorter shaft.....hot melt or other approach?

    Posted:
    Taylormade M5 10.5*, Tour AD-DI6s
    Callaway Epic 16*, Tour AD-DI6s
    Taylormade SIM Max 3H 19*, Tour AD-DI 85s Hyb
    Bridgestone Tour B X-CB 4-PW, KBS $-Taper 120s
    Scratch Forged 50*, SS Grind
    Scratch Tour Dept 54*, FAW Grind
    Scratch Tour Dept 58*, RPD Grind
    Scotty Cameron 2016 Select NP 2.5 (1st of 500), Phantom X 5.5
  • EvoXWWEvoXWW Members  24WRX Points: 16Posts: 24 Bunkers
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    you could try lead tape to get it to the same swingweight. If you like it hotmelt it

    Posted:
    In my 2016 Titleist Stadry bag

    Cobra F9 8* Graphite Design AD TP 7X / Diamana DF 60TX
    Callaway Rogue Subzero 15* Graphite Design AD TP 8X / Taylormade Sim Ti 15* Hzrdus Smoke Green 70 6.5
    Taylormade 2019 P790 UDI Hzrdus Smoke Black 100g 6.5
    Nike Vapor Pro Combo 4-PW DG Pro X100 / Nike VR Pro Combo 4-PW Nippon Modus3 120X
    Titleist SM6 50 F grind
    Titleist SM6 54 S grind
    Titleist SM6 58 M grind
    Evnroll ER2
  • Ranso007Ranso007 Members  15WRX Points: 52Posts: 15 Bunkers
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    Thanks for the info. Was wondering if that would be the case

    Posted:
  • wfrogge1wfrogge1 Members  1282WRX Points: 218Posts: 1,282 Platinum Tees
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    Once you hear this you can't get it out of your mind......

    The SIM whistles when you swing it. Mine does it and just tried two demo clubs at Edwin Watts.....

    Posted:
  • 18thbunker18thbunker Members  394WRX Points: 86Posts: 394 Greens
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    hmmmm, kinda like the Ben Hogan VKTR hybrids....which took me awhile to get used to....actually still bothers me every now and then.

    Posted:
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]driver - Titleist 915 D3 10.5[/font]
    [font=comic sans ms,cursive]fairway - Ping I25 18 degree 5 wood
    hybrid - Ben Hogan VKTR 19 & 23
    Irons - Mizuno MP68 3-PW
    wedges Mizuno MP-T5 50-58
    putter - Ping Sigma G Doon[/font]
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  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3406WRX Points: 498Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,406 Titanium Tees
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    I only hear the whistles from playing partners who watch my ball flight a mile past theirs...

    Posted:
  • taylormade4lifetaylormade4life Members  1420WRX Points: 179Handicap: 4Posts: 1,420 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 17, 2020 11:55pm #29

    I tried a brief few swings today with the M5 and SIM vs my 17 M1. I thought going in that I would likely want the M5 but the results with the M5 were almost identical to my M1 while the SIM had a few longer shots overall. Avg carry for the M1/M5 was 275 and the SIM was ~279 but had a few push 285. I plan to do one more head to head before I make a decision. FWIW I brought both of my current driver shafts so all comparison were head vs head with either the PX black or the Accra XT60.

    I also liked the look of the SIM and the feel better than the M5. Ironically, I think my M1 feels the worst and is the least forgiving but it is still holding its own. Hardest driver swap I have had to figure out in years.. 😂

    Posted:
  • bigeasybigeasy Bigeasy Members  1190WRX Points: 130Handicap: 5.5Posts: 1,190 Platinum Tees
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    Big difference is in the spin, lower spin is going farther most of the time. Get the spin down on M5

    Posted:
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    Taylormade M1 19* hybrid
    PingI25 ZZ65 4-pw
    Titleist SM6F Grind 50*, SM7 M Grind 55* SM6 59* S Grind S-300
    Ping Redwood Piper SS 3.O
    Titleist Prov1
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  • Old Fashioned CowboyOld Fashioned Cowboy You and Me and the Devil Makes Three... Members  75WRX Points: 55Handicap: 9Posts: 75 Fairways
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    I would use temp lead tape and wait for someone to come up with a weight for it. I had the 2017 M2 with a heavier weight to accommodate my shorter shaft, but I plan on lead tape on the bottom until someone makes a heavy weight for the SIM Max.

    My number jump with the SIM Max was astounding, btw. They weren't just a little jump, it was unreal the extra 15 yards of carry I was getting. Last year swing topped at 105 and this year with little to no warm up or range time since 2019, I was swinging the SIM Max 111 and couldn't get the M2 to get anywhere near that when side-by-side. The 2017 M2 is not the M5, granted, but everyone should test for themselves. Some combos just work and some don't. Mis-hit distance/performance was the other factor. I couldn't believe how they flew when not center struck. Enjoy my $500 bucks Taylormade.

    Posted:
    TM SIM Max 9* Speeder Pro 74 TS
    TM M3 3HL set to 19* Speeder Pro 84 TS
    TM GAPR Mid 21* Fujikura Fuel 85HY
     Mizuno MP-32 4-PW DG S300
    Cleveland RTX-3 Tour Raw Mid-Bounce 52, 56, 60
    EVNROLL ER2 34" - Lie: 4* Flat - Loft: 3*

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